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Thread: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by stillness View Post
    You people who thing you know the law are trying to teach the dead to obey. Good luck with that.
    "Do you not know, brothers and sisters, that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives?"

    2zxDa-6ZYSb - print.jpg
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    Smile Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by gb9 View Post
    let's grow in out love for Jesus. we are not saved by command keeping. we are saved by grace,
    GOD's grace.


    Let’s talk about grace. God‘s grace as defined by the Words HE picked to say it.

    . First let’s take a look at the Secular use of the word.
    It's use as a noun would be defined as: Simple elegance or refinement of movement.

    Verbally it is understood along the same lines but in action. If one would look it up they would find something along these lines: To do honor or credit to (someone or something) by one's presence.

    Now Webster saw fit to define it as follows:
    1
    a
    : unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification
    b : a virtue coming from God
    c : a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance

    Did a word study of the Greek and Hebrew a while ago. This is what was found.

    Grace in the Hebrew is חן and it is pronounced khane. Subjectively it means to find favor in the eyes of someone. To be acceptable to them; to find or receive grace, kindness, favor, goodwill.
    Objectively it means form or appearance; beauty, gracefulness.

    Khane is from חנן and is pronounced khaw-nan’ Properly it means to bend or stoop in kindness to an inferior. To be inclined towards , yearn towards, long for, be merciful, compassionate, favorable. Causatively it means to implore; move to favor by petition. It is recommended to Compare the kindred word חנה pronounced hana. Properly this word means, to incline towards, reach; by implication to decline. Specifically to pitch a tent. Generally to encamp. To set oneself down. To inhabit.

      Now lets look at the Greek word for God's grace χάρις , pronounce charis. In the objective sense it means, outward grace or favor, beauty. Properly of persons or their portraits. In the subjective sense it is , grace or favor felt, whether on the part of the doer or the receiver. Graciousness (as gratifying ), of manner or act. Strong felt moved to pen in his lexicon that charis is, "the especially the Divine influence on the heart, and it’s reflection in the life; including gratitude."

    Charis is from χαίρω and it is pronounced chairo. It means rejoice be glad, be cheerful; calmly happy or well off.


    So what is God's grace?

    It is His kindness, His favor, His Goodwill, His inclining toward us.
    His yearning, His longing compassionate imploring for us to encamp. To abode, to set ourselves down with Him and He with us. It is His Beauty, His appearance, His image and likeness, His joy in us for Sanctification, which is only found in Him through the Gospel. The Kingdom of God; Christ in you, the Hope of Glory.

    Herein is my Father glorified, that we bear much fruit through this Sanctification (HIS Grace). So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ, gracing us with HIS presence, the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments down from above) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ, the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Word, the commandments manifested in the flesh, Our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, in thy heart, and in they hand: that we may do it; that is, the word of faith, which we preach. And that is the Gospel, the Kingdom of GOD within you. For GOD hath said, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." And HE shall be our GOD and we shall be HIS people. For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure, Christ (the Word, His Commandments, GOD's will ) in you the hope of Glory


    Romans 10:6-8 and Deut. 30:11-14 are speaking the same premise as of that which is found Hebrews 8:10,11 and Jeremiah 31:33. It is just worded different. The Gospel, the New Covenant, GOD's Grace.



    For God It was never about doing the written law. His intent in us has always been the Faith that worketh love. The text which were shared above show the connection between the Old Testament and New. These verses shared above in Romans 10:6-8; Deut. 30:11-14 ; Hebrews 8:10,11; Jeremiah 31:33 are all speaking of GOD's gift of enabling us through HIS Spirit to be as HE would have us be. Please notice that this gift which is the Good News; the Gospel was availed to us from the beginning of Moses ministry. Deut. 30:6, 11-14 bring this to light. For the LORD thy GOD will circumcise thy heart and the heart of thy seed with HIS commandments and statutes contained in the book of the Law. So let's walk and grow in the Faith, HIS Grace (HIS Word, HIS commandments in our hearts and minds) has enabled us.
    LORD I believe; help THOU my unbelief! For YOU have given us all things that pertain to Life and godliness through Jesus Christ.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    "Do you not know, brothers and sisters, that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives?"

    If you sin you are still under the Law; Schoolmaster.
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    LORD I believe; help THOU my unbelief! For YOU have given us all things that pertain to Life and godliness through Jesus Christ.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    are you sure about that?

    Yah actually tells us expressly why He commanded the nation Israel to keep sabbaths. Exodus 31:13 & again Ezekiel 20:12
    it is to make them know that it is God who sanctifies.

    are you familiar with Hebrews 10:14?

    you really think the sabbaths are not a picture of Christ?



    Yes the Sabbath was not a shadow of Jesus because it was created before sin and made holy before a saviour was needed. Jesus is lord of the Sabbath and did not change it.

    Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

    Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

    Luk 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath

    Heb 1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

    2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

    3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

    4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

    5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

    6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

    7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

    8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

    9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

    11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMS View Post
    Yes the Sabbath was not a shadow of Jesus because it was created before sin and made holy before a saviour was needed. Jesus is lord of the Sabbath and did not change it.

    Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

    Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

    Luk 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath

    Heb 1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

    2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

    3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

    4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

    5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

    6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

    7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

    8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

    9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

    11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
    Hi TMS, yes indeed nicely written. You mean Hebrews 4 however not Hebrews 1.

    Thanks for sharing

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by lightbearer View Post
    If you sin you are still under the Law; Schoolmaster.
    Why then was the Law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred.
    (Galatians 3:19)

    Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the Law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the Law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
    (Galatians 3:23-25)

    The Law, however, is not based on faith

    (Galatians 3:12)



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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMS View Post
    Yes the Sabbath was not a shadow of Jesus because it was created before sin and made holy before a saviour was needed.
    when did Satan fall?

    are you saying Jesus didn't exist until only after sin did?
    the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMS View Post
    Jesus is lord of the Sabbath and did not change it.

    why does He say He is "
    Lord of the Sabbath" ?

    in order to indicate that He is it's servant? by saying this, He declares that He has authority over it to alter or remove it. He in fact says it when confronted by pharisees protesting that His disciples are disobeying the letter of the Law concerning the sabbath. His reply is to remind them of David doing what is unlawful, and that the priests "
    profane" the sabbath regularly in the temple - as the Law itself requires them to - and the rhetorical question, which of them wouldn't break the sabbath Law in order to lift an animal out of a pit?

    when He says He is Lord of the sabbath, does He explain this with examples of careful observance of it? or does He explain this with examples of mercy rather than sacrifice? examples of acting contrary to the letter of the Law regarding it, for the sake of goodness? does He demonstrate He is Lord over it by bowing to it, or ruling over it?
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMS View Post
    Yes the Sabbath was not a shadow of Jesus because it was created before sin

    is the sun a shadow of Christ?
    it was created long before sabbath. the moon? it also came before He rested.

    The sun will no more be your light by day, nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you, for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your glory.
    (Isaiah 60:19)

    And the city has no need for sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp.
    (Revelation 21:23)

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMS View Post
    7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

    8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    bad translation.

    verse 8 - if Joshua had given them rest then there would not have been spoken of afterward of another day

    obviously David did not come "after" Jesus and the preceding context is entering Canaan.

    Jesus in fact gives us rest -- unless you call Him a liar? then there's no rest for the wicked.
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by lightbearer View Post
    If you sin you are still under the Law; Schoolmaster.
    Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died — more than that, who was raised — who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
    (Romans 8:34)

    Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

    (Hebrews 7:25)


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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by lightbearer View Post
    If you sin you are still under the Law; Schoolmaster.
    Your prison is broken and we are escaped, "Some trust in chariots, some in horses, but we will remember the name of the Lord our God. They are brought down and fallen, but we are risen and stand upright."
    What are you doing under there? Underwear? O no not in your underwear, under the law:
    "He that sits in the heaven shall laugh." "Sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under the law but under Grace."
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    Journey to enter into rest in God,
    A work in progress you can read here in Poems and poetry.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    We are not forcing you ore anyone to come out of prison, it can't be done: it would want to make you stay there longer. just like you forcing us to come under law; causing us to run from religious leaders to the Lord increases insight in freedom from the law. for Grace to be multiplied. The firstborn refused to join the party with the prodigal son. Yet everything the Father had belonged to the firstborn as well, trouble is he thinks the prodigal should suffer under law for his broken lifestyle and the first born has to suffer the sentence he wishes on others. But don't feel bad we all suffer whether at the cross with Him or otherwise.
    Journey to enter into rest in God,
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    We are no longer thinking that the fourth commandment is done away with in Christ: You have convinced us the whole lay is done away in Christ: it would be insufficient to just have rest one day a week and work under law the rest of the week.
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    funny thing about being dead.

    it's not at all necessary or even relevant to a dead man for any law to be abolished. it simply doesn't any longer have any power whatsoever over him. because he's dead. the harshest penalty law can demand, already paid in full.

    if He makes you free, you are truly free indeed !

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by stillness View Post
    We are no longer thinking that the fourth commandment is done away with in Christ: You have convinced us the whole lay is done away in Christ: it would be insufficient to just have rest one day a week and work under law the rest of the week.
    Hi stillness, you seem a little mixed up. It is our SINS that are done away with in Christ not God's LAW (10 Commandments). The scirptures say that God's LAW gives us the knowledge of what SIN is (Romans 3:20). Without it we cannot KNOW the Savior where is leads us to for FORGIVENESS (Gal 3:23-35).

    God's LAW gives us the knowledge of good and evil and are the action of LOVE that hang on the two great commandments (Matthew 22:40)

    GODS LAW (10 commandments) ARE FOREVER

    The Law of God (10 commandments) which includes the 4th commandment is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14).
    God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7).
    It is the very standard of the Old and New Covenants (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12).
    God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4).It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Galatians 3:24; Revelation 1:5). Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfil it ( Matt 5:17-20 ). The law is the embodiment of truth that instructs ( Rom 2:18-19 ). It is "holy" and "spiritual, " making sin known to us by defining it; therefore, Paul delights in it ( Romans 7:7-14Romans 7:22). The law is good if used properly ( 1 Tim 1:8 ), and is not opposed to the promises of God ( Gal 3:21 ). Faith does not make the law void, but the Christian establishes the law ( Rom 3:31 ), fulfilling its requirements by walking according to the Spirit ( Rom 8:4 ) through love ( Rom 13:10 ).

    You cannot know the power of God or the Gospel of Grace without the 10 commandments. If there is NO LAW then you do not know what SIN is (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). If you do not know what SIN is you have NO need of a Savior. If you have NO need of a Savior you have NO Salvation. If you have NO Salvation you are LOST because it is written.

    Romans 2
    12,
    For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.

    ............

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    Why then was the Law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred. (Galatians 3:19)
    What law are you talking about God's LAW or the Mosaic book of the law? There is a deeper meaning in the scripture you are not seeing.

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the Law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the Law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. (Galatians 3:23-25)
    When you are justifed by Faith you are forgiven for your SINS and no longer under the LAW condemned as a SINNER (Romans 3:19). If you are however still practicing KNOWN SIN you are counted the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and are still in your SINS (Hebrews 10:26-31). The scripture is not saying God's LAW is Abolished only that your SINS have been forgiven (1 John 1:9). If you have no schoolmaster you have NO KNOWLDGE of what SIN is (Romans 3:30; 31) and no need of a Savior (Matthew 9:12-13).

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    The Law, however, is not based on faith (Galatians 3:12)
    God's LAW is the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20) it makes nothing perfect. We are saved by GRACE through FAITH and not of ourselves it is a GIFT of GOD and not of WORKS lest any man should boast (Eph 2:8).

    However Grace is for OBEDIENCE to the FATIH (Romans 1:5; 16;26). If your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE then you are still in your sins (James 2:18; 20; 26) and do not know him who calls you in LOVE (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-8) because you have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son (Hebrews 10:26-31)

    ............

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    There is an awesome move of the spirit coming and beginning already where someone who is like me presently will be as the least advised in the kingdom, because of the power of the anointing that is coming. As comedians don't quit your day job: its not that funny.
    Last edited by stillness; 1 Week Ago at 07:37 PM.
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Now the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt was 430 years.
    (Exodus 12:40)

    The Law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the Law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
    (Galatians 3:17-18)

    So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
    What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, as it is written:
    “God gave them a spirit of stupor,
    eyes that could not see
    and ears that could not hear,
    to this very day.”

    (Romans 11:5-8)

    Last edited by posthuman; 1 Week Ago at 07:41 PM.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by stillness View Post
    There is an awesome move of the spirit coming and beginning already where someone who is like me presently will be as the least advised in the kingdom, because of the power of the anointing that is coming. As comedians don't quit your day job: its not that funny.
    i heard of a man who read 'whoever wants to be great must become least' and 'the last shall be first' so he said he wants to be least in the kingdom of heaven.

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