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Thread: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

  1. #21
    Senior Member phil36's Avatar
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    Is Christ wrong to say the law of Moses?

    Consider what He states.. quite telling.. may you perceive.

    Nope, I call it the law of moses myself

    Do you think the law of Moses was not from God?
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    Soli Deo Gloria

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    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Romans 7 -7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet. 12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.




    Sin is breaking the Law, obeying is keeping the Law



    1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

    mighty odd doctrine you have there.

    Of course sin is breaking the law to say otherwise be just silly. But in Christ we have no condemnation from the yoke of the law! Legalists put themselves back under the condemnation of the laws just requirements. Jesus on our behalf met those requirements and bore the curse..Amen

    And Being set free from the bondage if sin/evil etc etc is not a silly doctrine Hizikyah...Its part of the gospel... Thats why Paul is so severe with legalists they destroy the gospel
    Soli Deo Gloria

    "After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" - C H Spurgeon



    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post
    Of course sin is breaking the law to say otherwise be just silly. But in Christ we have no condemnation from the yoke of the law! Legalists put themselves back under the condemnation of the laws just requirements. Jesus on our behalf met those requirements and bore the curse..Amen

    And Being set free from the bondage if sin/evil etc etc is not a silly doctrine Hizikyah...Its part of the gospel... Thats why Paul is so severe with legalists they destroy the gospel
    We need to righty divide the word not pick and choose

    Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yahshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

    1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."

    1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

    no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yahshua - He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked - the one guarding His commands stays in Him
    loveme1 and LoveGodForever like this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Senior Member Hizikyah's Avatar
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post
    Thanks for sharing Loveme1,

    Yes, excellent teaching from Jesus regarding teaching authority (All of ch7). And yes circumcision was a 'sign' of the covenant people those who belong to God. This carried on through to Christ. I am fully aware of the outworking of the Abrahamic covenant and the 'building upon' of the Mosaic covenant'.

    Who commanded circumcision..it wasn't man it was God. Who commanded and gave the laws to moses to give to the people...was it Moses? It was God. Moses mediated..as a foreshadow to Christ.

    But lets go back. Mosaic law is God's law. would you not agree?

    God's moral law stands for all time for all people..it's written in the hearts of men.. and Christians in Christ are free from the bondage of sin to obey them..not from under the school master of the Mosaic law. But from Love only found in Christ.

    Love God and love neighbour as oneself..can only be done because Christ faithfully obeyed the demands and took upon himself the curse.. Why would you want to go back under the bonds and curses of the written law?

    To have some notion that the Mosaic law is not the law of God is just plain nonsense. God gave it t Moses!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Romans 7 -7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet. 12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.




    Sin is breaking the Law, obeying is keeping the Law

    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post
    Christians in Christ are free from the bondage of sin to obey them
    1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

    mighty odd doctrine you have there.
    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post
    Of course sin is breaking the law to say otherwise be just silly. But in Christ we have no condemnation from the yoke of the law! Legalists put themselves back under the condemnation of the laws just requirements. Jesus on our behalf met those requirements and bore the curse..Amen

    And Being set free from the bondage if sin/evil etc etc is not a silly doctrine Hizikyah...Its part of the gospel... Thats why Paul is so severe with legalists they destroy the gospel
    Not what I said, I was talking about this being an odd doctrine, as shown in my post

    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post
    Christians in Christ are free from the bondage of sin to obey them
    Obeying them is not sin, sin is not obeying them.... you said " free from the bondage of sin to obey them"

    That makes no sense.

    Sin is the braking of the Law

    that is an odd doctrine you have.
    LoveGodForever likes this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Not what I said, I was talking about this being an odd doctrine, as shown in my post



    Obeying them is not sin, sin is not obeying them.... you said " free from the bondage of sin to obey them"

    That makes no sense.

    Sin is the braking of the Law

    that is an odd doctrine you have.

    Hi Hizikyah,

    The gospel never makes any sense to the legalist. Anyhow here's what Paul says regarding the matter:





    Romans 6English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)

    Dead to Sin, Alive to God

    6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
    5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self[a] was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free[b] from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
    12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
    Slaves to Righteousness

    15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,[c] you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
    20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    mailmandan likes this.
    Soli Deo Gloria

    "After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" - C H Spurgeon



    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

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    Senior Member Hizikyah's Avatar
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    No what you said did not make sense, I understand the word thank you.

    John/Yahanan 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    OK.

    John/Yahanan 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

    Definatlely, Jesus is God,.... His yoke is light, and brings no condemnation unto his like the law did! He was faithful under the law and took on its curse for us and rose from the dead and set those in Him free from the bondage of sin.

    Thats is good news my friend. Legalism only kills.
    Soli Deo Gloria

    "After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" - C H Spurgeon



    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    1 Thessalonians 4:7-8, “For Yah did not call us to uncleanness, but in set-apartness. Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but Yah, who also gives us His Set-apart Spirit.”


    Romans 2:4-12, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that YHWH’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of YHWH’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of YHWH will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with YHWH. For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.”

    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    1 Thessalonians 4:7-8, “For Yah did not call us to uncleanness, but in set-apartness. Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but Yah, who also gives us His Set-apart Spirit.”


    Romans 2:4-12, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that YHWH’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of YHWH’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of YHWH will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with YHWH. For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.”


    Your overly and unhealthily obsessed with law keeping Hizikyah. Legalists always do the same/// lists of scripture with no context and even taken out of context.


    mailmandan and preacher4truth like this.
    Soli Deo Gloria

    "After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" - C H Spurgeon



    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post
    Your overly and unhealthily obsessed with law keeping Hizikyah. Legalists always do the same/// lists of scripture with no context and even taken out of context.


    Is this out of context?

    Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."



    Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”


    who did the
    dragon "fight with"?
    LoveGodForever likes this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


  11. #31
    Senior Member phil36's Avatar
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Is this out of context?

    Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."



    Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”


    who did the
    dragon "fight with"?
    You see this is the problem with legalists. You seem to think I have a problem with being Faithful and Obedient? This is the mistake you make and all legalists.

    I know the difference, that my faith and obedience are nothing. It is only in light of Christs faith and obedience (under the law, obeying its commands and dying to its curse and rising again), that my faith and obedience is accepted by God. It is all of grace. This could not be done under the law... it always pointed to the one who could fulfill all its demands. Christ Jesus!

    It is not me keeping a set of rules and putting myself under the curse of the law that saves.. It is not my obedience that saves .. It is Christs.

    So I have no problem obeying I am set free to do so in Christ. Under the law that is impossible. Legalism brings death!
    Soli Deo Gloria

    "After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" - C H Spurgeon



    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post
    You see this is the problem with legalists. You seem to think I have a problem with being Faithful and Obedient? This is the mistake you make and all legalists.

    I know the difference, that my faith and obedience are nothing. It is only in light of Christs faith and obedience (under the law, obeying its commands and dying to its curse and rising again), that my faith and obedience is accepted by God. It is all of grace. This could not be done under the law... it always pointed to the one who could fulfill all its demands. Christ Jesus!

    It is not me keeping a set of rules and putting myself under the curse of the law that saves.. It is not my obedience that saves .. It is Christs.

    So I have no problem obeying I am set free to do so in Christ. Under the law that is impossible. Legalism brings death!
    When did I ever say a single thing about how you walk/behave in lofe, you say about me

    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post
    You see this is the problem with legalists. You seem to think I have a problem with being Faithful and Obedient? This is the mistake you make and all legalists.
    you have a mighty mouth to accuse.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    When did I ever say a single thing about how you walk/behave in lofe, you say about me



    you have a mighty mouth to accuse.

    Hi Hizikyah,

    It is quite plain in all your posts that you esteem law and law keeping. I have hardly seen you mention Christ and how we are in Him.

    It's all about Jesus Christ my friend. Not law keeping or legalism. As I say legalism will keep you away from the Gospel of Jesus.
    Grandpa and mailmandan like this.
    Soli Deo Gloria

    "After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" - C H Spurgeon



    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

  14. #34
    Senior Member Hizikyah's Avatar
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post
    Hi Hizikyah,

    It is quite plain in all your posts that you esteem law and law keeping. I have hardly seen you mention Christ and how we are in Him.

    It's all about Jesus Christ my friend. Not law keeping or legalism. As I say legalism will keep you away from the Gospel of Jesus.
    1. Faith in Yahshua was in my last post you quoted

    2. I have accepted Him thus I am seeking to do His will rather than stay on day one of I have accepted Him

    3. How is seeking to do His will agaist Him

    4. The topic is Sabbath and the current debate is if the Law is valid/should be guarded, so if I ask you about how to drive a car should I then ask why you are not teaching me to maintenece it? or would you simply answer my question of how to drive the car?

    Also I quoted this to you in in the last 30 mins or so, idk if in this thread or another;

    Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yahshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."


    1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."


    1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”


    it directly deals with staying in Him
    LoveGodForever likes this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    1. Faith in Yahshua was in my last post you quoted

    2. I have accepted Him thus I am seeking to do His will rather than stay on day one of I have accepted Him

    3. How is seeking to do His will agaist Him

    4. The topic is Sabbath and the current debate is if the Law is valid/should be guarded, so if I ask you about how to drive a car should I then ask why you are not teaching me to maintenece it? or would you simply answer my question of how to drive the car?

    Also I quoted this to you in in the last 30 mins or so, idk if in this thread or another;

    Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yahshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."


    1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."


    1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”


    it directly deals with staying in Him

    If you put yourself under one law you need to keep them all Hizikyah. Jesus set us free from the bondage of sin, that's how we are free not to sin.. Our nature is not the same.. Don't put yourself under the law.

    I have no problem with Jewish Christians holding the Sabbath because it is their heritage or a family thing, but putting yourself under it to obey the command is putting yourself back into the yoke of slavery...Legalism.

    Legalism kills.
    Grandpa and mailmandan like this.
    Soli Deo Gloria

    "After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" - C H Spurgeon



    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

  16. #36
    Senior Member Hizikyah's Avatar
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post
    If you put yourself under one law you need to keep them all Hizikyah. Jesus set us free from the bondage of sin, that's how we are free not to sin.. Our nature is not the same.. Don't put yourself under the law.

    I have no problem with Jewish Christians holding the Sabbath because it is their heritage or a family thing, but putting yourself under it to obey the command is putting yourself back into the yoke of slavery...Legalism.

    Legalism kills.
    Bondage of sin is transgression of the Law...

    Romans 8:2, “Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.”


    Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin*.”


    1 John 3:4, "...for sin is the transgression of the Law."


    1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

    Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

    Romans 4:15, "Because the law works wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

    Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”

    Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law*!"

    Romans 6:16, "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?"

    Romans, “6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

    Romans 7
    25, "Thanks be to יהוה through Yahushua the Messiah our Saviour. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of יהוה; but with the flesh the law of sin."

    Romans 8:5-8,

    5, "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

    6, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

    7, "Because the carnal mind is enmity (bitterly opposed) against יהוה: for it is not subject to the law of יהוה, neither indeed can be.

    8, "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please יהוה.”
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


  17. #37
    Senior Member prove-all's Avatar
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post
    Thats why Paul is so severe with legalists they destroy the gospel
    Sorry You must be mistaken to what [Paul says] about the law.


    "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call
    heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things
    which are written in the law and in the prophets:"


    If Paul taught against the law (which is not true) then he certainly wouldn't have
    worshiped by believing those things written therein. Paul was not a deceiver by
    opposing his own beliefs that he taught to others.


    after Acts 13, Acts 26:7 (KJV)
    Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
    For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

    -here Paul says that his hope to come, is in the promises given to the twelve tribes.

    Romans 9:4
    4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
    and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

    the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory, belong to Israel

    -

    1. Paul was a Pharisee. A teacher of God's law. He continued to
    call himself a Pharisee even after joining the church.

    (Acts 23:6) Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees,
    called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees.
    I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead."


    2. Paul loved God's law. It was a delight to him.

    (Romans 7:22) For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,


    3. Paul called God's law holy.

    (Romans 7:12) So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy,
    righteous and good.


    4. Paul knew that breaking God's law is the very definition of sin.

    (1 John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
    for sin is the transgression of the law.

    5. Paul said that we don't nullify the law of God by our faith in Jesus Christ.

    (Romans 3:31) Do we nullify the law by this faith? By no means!
    Rather we uphold the law.

    6. Paul often read from the scriptures on the sabbath (which is kept by the apostles 84
    times in the book of Acts). And the only scriptures at that time was the old testament.

    (Acts 17:2) As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue,
    and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

    7. Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses when he first joined the church.
    (And ironically, he's still being accused today.)

    (Act 21:21) They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among
    the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children
    or live according to our customs.


    8. These accusations were shown to be false.

    (Acts 21:24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses,
    so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth
    in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.


    9. When Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses, he always denied this,
    and said he does live according to the law.

    (Acts 24:14) But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call
    a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law
    and written in the Prophets,


    10. Paul said that those who refuse to submit to the law are "carnal minded"
    and hostile to God.

    (Romans 8:7-8) The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit
    to God's law, nor can it do so. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


    11. Paul continued to travel to Jerusalem to celebrate God's feast days
    after joining the church.

    (Acts 18:21) But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that
    cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.


    12. Paul often quoted from Moses's writings, and cited it as authority.

    (1 Corinthians 9:9-10) Do I say this merely on human authority?
    Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses:
    “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God
    is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us,
    because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.


    13. Paul claimed that ALL scripture is good for instruction in righteousness,
    and given through inspiration of God. He never singled out Moses' writings.

    (2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
    correcting and training in righteousness,


    14. Paul mentions that the levitical priests are still offering sacrifices to God
    even after Christ's death on the cross.

    (Hebrews 8:3-4) Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices,
    and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer.

    If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests
    who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.


    15. The most well known teaching in Paul's letters is the one where he says
    "you are not under law but under grace".

    Millions of people quote this scripture, they almost always leave out the scripture
    that immediately follows it. Watch what happens when you add the context....

    (Romans 6:14-16) For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under
    the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law
    but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to
    someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are
    slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?


    16. Paul told the Colossians not to let anyone judge them because they were observing
    God's sabbaths and feasts because these appointed times are "a shadow of things to come".

    Meaning they reveal future events, just like the passover foreshadowed Christ's
    sacrifice on the cross.(Colossians 2:16-17)


    17. Paul never repremanded anyone for obeying God's law. Instead, he repremanded
    new gentile converts, the Galatians, who were trying to be justified by the law,
    instead of faith in Jesus Christ.

    (Galatians 2:16) Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith
    in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by
    faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

    18. The Galatians, who Paul was repremanding for trying to be justified by the law,
    were going back to serving other gods after they were circumcised. This is why Paul
    had to explain that the works of the law can't earn your salvation.

    (Galatians 4: 8-11) Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those
    who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God
    —how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish
    to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months
    and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

    - those weak and miserable forces where not Gods convocation

    19. Paul understood that obedience to God's law is a natural result of salvation.
    Once you become a true christian, God writes His law on your heart and mind,
    and causes you to walk in them.(Hebrews 10:16)

    (Hebrews 10:16) "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time,
    says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

    20. Paul's letters come with a warning label attached to them.

    (2 Peter 3:16-17) He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these
    matters.His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant
    and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you
    may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

    -

    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding
    have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge:
    but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

    For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord:
    Hizikyah and LoveGodForever like this.

  18. #38
    Senior Member phil36's Avatar
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by prove-all View Post
    Sorry You must be mistaken to what [Paul says] about the law.


    "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call
    heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things
    which are written in the law and in the prophets:"


    If Paul taught against the law (which is not true) then he certainly wouldn't have
    worshiped by believing those things written therein. Paul was not a deceiver by
    opposing his own beliefs that he taught to others.


    after Acts 13, Acts 26:7 (KJV)
    Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
    For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

    -here Paul says that his hope to come, is in the promises given to the twelve tribes.

    Romans 9:4
    4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
    and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

    the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory, belong to Israel

    -

    1. Paul was a Pharisee. A teacher of God's law. He continued to
    call himself a Pharisee even after joining the church.

    (Acts 23:6) Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees,
    called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees.
    I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead."


    2. Paul loved God's law. It was a delight to him.

    (Romans 7:22) For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,


    3. Paul called God's law holy.

    (Romans 7:12) So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy,
    righteous and good.


    4. Paul knew that breaking God's law is the very definition of sin.

    (1 John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
    for sin is the transgression of the law.

    5. Paul said that we don't nullify the law of God by our faith in Jesus Christ.

    (Romans 3:31) Do we nullify the law by this faith? By no means!
    Rather we uphold the law.

    6. Paul often read from the scriptures on the sabbath (which is kept by the apostles 84
    times in the book of Acts). And the only scriptures at that time was the old testament.

    (Acts 17:2) As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue,
    and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

    7. Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses when he first joined the church.
    (And ironically, he's still being accused today.)

    (Act 21:21) They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among
    the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children
    or live according to our customs.


    8. These accusations were shown to be false.

    (Acts 21:24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses,
    so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth
    in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.


    9. When Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses, he always denied this,
    and said he does live according to the law.

    (Acts 24:14) But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call
    a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law
    and written in the Prophets,


    10. Paul said that those who refuse to submit to the law are "carnal minded"
    and hostile to God.

    (Romans 8:7-8) The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit
    to God's law, nor can it do so. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


    11. Paul continued to travel to Jerusalem to celebrate God's feast days
    after joining the church.

    (Acts 18:21) But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that
    cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.


    12. Paul often quoted from Moses's writings, and cited it as authority.

    (1 Corinthians 9:9-10) Do I say this merely on human authority?
    Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses:
    “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God
    is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us,
    because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.


    13. Paul claimed that ALL scripture is good for instruction in righteousness,
    and given through inspiration of God. He never singled out Moses' writings.

    (2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
    correcting and training in righteousness,


    14. Paul mentions that the levitical priests are still offering sacrifices to God
    even after Christ's death on the cross.

    (Hebrews 8:3-4) Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices,
    and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer.

    If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests
    who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.


    15. The most well known teaching in Paul's letters is the one where he says
    "you are not under law but under grace".

    Millions of people quote this scripture, they almost always leave out the scripture
    that immediately follows it. Watch what happens when you add the context....

    (Romans 6:14-16) For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under
    the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law
    but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to
    someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are
    slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?


    16. Paul told the Colossians not to let anyone judge them because they were observing
    God's sabbaths and feasts because these appointed times are "a shadow of things to come".

    Meaning they reveal future events, just like the passover foreshadowed Christ's
    sacrifice on the cross.(Colossians 2:16-17)


    17. Paul never repremanded anyone for obeying God's law. Instead, he repremanded
    new gentile converts, the Galatians, who were trying to be justified by the law,
    instead of faith in Jesus Christ.

    (Galatians 2:16) Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith
    in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by
    faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

    18. The Galatians, who Paul was repremanding for trying to be justified by the law,
    were going back to serving other gods after they were circumcised. This is why Paul
    had to explain that the works of the law can't earn your salvation.

    (Galatians 4: 8-11) Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those
    who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God
    —how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish
    to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months
    and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

    - those weak and miserable forces where not Gods convocation

    19. Paul understood that obedience to God's law is a natural result of salvation.
    Once you become a true christian, God writes His law on your heart and mind,
    and causes you to walk in them.(Hebrews 10:16)

    (Hebrews 10:16) "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time,
    says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

    20. Paul's letters come with a warning label attached to them.

    (2 Peter 3:16-17) He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these
    matters.His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant
    and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you
    may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

    -

    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding
    have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge:
    but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

    For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord:

    And who says Paul taught against the law...Not me my friend. Paul taugh against legalism, in others do not put yourself under the law, for Christ bought us at extreme cost, by obeying its commands and taking it's curse to set those free from Bondage of sin and slavery, who are in Him.

    All by the power of the Holy Spirit.

    Its all about Christ, Jesus is the only way not the law. Again Paul never taught against the law, but severely remind those in Christ not to go back under its yoke, as this was another gospel it was anathema..Legalism.

    Soli Deo Gloria

    "After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" - C H Spurgeon



    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

  19. #39
    Senior Member Hizikyah's Avatar
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Mat 19:16-17, "And see, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life? And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – YHWH. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.”


    John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."


    Mat 7:21-27, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the desire of My Father in the heavens. Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’ And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’” Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.”
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


  20. #40
    Senior Member prove-all's Avatar
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post

    Its all about Christ, Jesus is the only way not the law.
    Again Paul never taught against the law, but severely remind those in Christ
    not to go back under its yoke, as this was another gospel it was anathema..Legalism.
    Legalism verses law ?

    "But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.”

    17. Paul never repremanded anyone for obeying God's law. Instead, he repremanded
    new gentile converts, the Galatians, who were trying to be justified by the law,
    instead of faith in Jesus Christ.

    18. The Galatians, who Paul was repremanding for trying to be justified by the law,
    were going back to serving other gods after they were circumcised. This is why Paul
    had to explain that the works of the law can't earn your salvation.

    5. Again Paul said that we don't nullify the law of God by our faith in Jesus Christ.
    Hizikyah and LoveGodForever like this.

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