GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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PS

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You are right we are not under the law We are the law; the word through Christ; through it being instilled in our hearts, minds and mouth that we do it. So it is now not a question of obeying an outside commandment but simply doing according to which we are through Christ.
Not the law of Moses, but the law of Christ which he himself practised and preached while he was with us, and which made the Pharisees so very angry.

Now, do we as Christians follow Christ or the Pharisees?
 

lightbearer

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I agree.

If we are led by the Holy Spirit we will gather together on the day the "HOLY SPIRIT"
.
We can gather to worship any day. As a matter fact we should. But No where is it Written in the Holy Writ that we are to gather on the first day in place of the Sabbath or in honor of the Pentecost. This is based solely on conjecture and or heretical tradition handed down and maintained by the Catholic church.

If we are of the Holy Spirit (Christ) then the Sabbath of the Decalogue is in our hearts, minds, and mouths that we do it. That is the Word of Faith to which Paul preached through Christ.
 
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i see it differently
if we are led by the Spirit, we are not under the law.
You are not led by the Spirit of God if you are sinning against him because if you walk in the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh and God only gives his Spirit to those who obey him. Those who do not obey him by faith have not seen him or know him....

Gal 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Acts 5:32

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that obey him.

1 John 2
3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:9-11).

ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.


.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 

lightbearer

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The yoke was removed.....meditate on this.
The Word; that which is written that pertains to righteousness is in our hearts and in our mouths that we do it. And that would include the Decalogue.

The yoke was removed. We are a new creature; behold all things are new and of GOD. As HE is so are we in this world. It is no longer at matter of Commandment; as if we have to struggle to obey. It is who we are through Christ.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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We can gather to worship any day. As a matter fact we should. But No where is it Written in the Holy Writ that we are to gather on the first day in place of the Sabbath or in honor of the Pentecost. This is based solely on conjecture and or heretical tradition handed down and maintained by the Catholic church.

If we are of the Holy Spirit (Christ) then the Sabbath of the Decalogue is in our hearts, minds, and mouths that we do it. That is the Word of Faith to which Paul preached through Christ.
You just said the law is written on our hearts. So no need to look for it in the written word, but in the living example of our Lord and Saviour. :)
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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You are right we are not under the law We are the law; the word through Christ; through it being instilled in our hearts, minds and mouth that we do it. So it is now not a question of obeying an outside commandment but simply doing according to which we are through Christ.
i basically agree, though I'm not sure about the phrase "We are the law"
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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The Word; that which is written that pertains to righteousness is in our hearts and in our mouths that we do it. And that would include the Decalogue.

The yoke was removed. We are a new creature; behold all things are new and of GOD. As HE is so are we in this world. It is no longer at matter of Commandment; as if we have to struggle to obey. It is who we are through Christ.
It is no longer at matter of Commandment; but of a NEW AND LIVING COVENANT.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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We can gather to worship any day. As a matter fact we should. But No where is it Written in the Holy Writ that we are to gather on the first day in place of the Sabbath or in honor of the Pentecost. This is based solely on conjecture and or heretical tradition handed down and maintained by the Catholic church.

If we are of the Holy Spirit (Christ) then the Sabbath of the Decalogue is in our hearts, minds, and mouths that we do it. That is the Word of Faith to which Paul preached through Christ.
say, lightbearer

why do you accept what the Catholic councils say about what is scripture but reject what those same folks say about the Sabbath?
 

Dan_473

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You are not led by the Spirit of God if you are sinning against him because if you walk in the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh and God only gives his Spirit to those who obey him. Those who do not obey him by faith have not seen him or know him....

Gal 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Acts 5:32

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that obey him.

1 John 2
3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:9-11).

ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.


.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
i think we got a circle going here

you say I'm not led by the spirit because i break the rules

i say I'm not under the rules because I'm led by the spirit
 

lightbearer

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You just said the law is written on our hearts.
GOD said not I, the Word; HIS Christ; the Law is written; put in our hearts, minds, and mouth that we do it. And that would include all that which shows us the righteousness of GOD. The Decalogue and that which shows righteousness contained in the Book of the Law; HIS Word.

That which is written was written do to the lack of Faith mishandling and therefore misrepresenting Christ.
 

Dan_473

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You just said the law is written on our hearts. So no need to look for it in the written word, but in the living example of our Lord and Saviour. :)
that's a good point

and i think there's the theory that a person has to first Do the commandments before they can know what they are
 

lightbearer

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Not the law of Moses, but the law of Christ which he himself practised and preached while he was with us, and which made the Pharisees so very angry.

Now, do we as Christians follow Christ or the Pharisees?
There is no law of Moses. GOD through Moses put down in the Book of the Law that which ascribes to the righteousness of GOD to establish us back to which we were in the Garden of Eden in Christ.


The righteousness ascribed in the Book of the Law; the Word; Christ is that to which is in our hearts minds and mouths that we do it. It is what righteousness is and who we are now in and because of Christ.

Romans 10:6-8 is a quote from Deut. 30:10-14. Paul paraphrased it so that they would look it up. It was all that they had for Scripture then. We will start in verse six of Deut. so that it is clear that the Gospel was taught and available since Moses if not before.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

(Deu 30:6 KJV)

The fulfillment of this circumcision from GOD of Christ is stated in Deut 30:10-14. The readers of this letter would have been drawn to this passage from the beginning of the letter. It is written, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly;
and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."(Rom 2:28-29 KJV)

Which GOD promised to do in Deut. 30:6. Which when he did he then spoke the fulfilment of it in verses 10-14. Please take notice to the present tense.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep HIS commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But
the wordis very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.(Deut 30:10-14 KJV)

The LXX translation of this text adds "and in thy hand".

With the above text in mind please note that the phrases "HIS commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law" and "the Word" are being used synonymously. In this instance they are interchangeable. Please take notice that in Deut. 30 the Judgments are not mentioned.
With that being established let's take a look at Romans 10:6-8 now.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)

So while the Israelis and Romans were reading this letter they would have been reading the Pentateuch and some of the other books from the Old Testament also. Actually with more regard. When they came to this verse they would of seen the similarities to Deut. and would have looked up the verses there and read them in parallel. In doing so would have tied everything together synonymously keeping everything in harmony to one another.

For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

And that my friends would include all the moral code in the Book of the Law and the Decalogue. Including the Sabbath.


With the above understanding of verses Rom. 10:6-8; when they read verse four they would have understood it as Christ being the goal of the law for righteousness sake in the putting off the body of Sin through the indwelling of Christ. Being No longer of the letter but of HIS Spirit.

As it is written, "And they two shall be one flesh". The Body of Christ; the Temple of GOD. For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. As Jesus said, "HE doeth work"!
 

lightbearer

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It is no longer at matter of Commandment; but of a NEW AND LIVING COVENANT.
The New Covenant. For God has said, "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people"
For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law, the Word; The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


That would be all that which ascribes to GOD's righteousness; Christ; the Anointed that anoints. The Decalogue and all that is written in the Book of the Law that pertains to righteousness is all in our hearts and in our minds that we do it.
 
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Originally Posted by Dan_473
i see it differently if we are led by the Spirit, we are not under the law.
Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

You are not led by the Spirit of God if you are sinning against him because if you walk in the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh and God only gives his Spirit to those who obey him. Those who do not obey him by faith have not seen him or know him....

Gal 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Acts 5:32

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that obey him.

1 John 2
3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:9-11).

ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.


.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
i think we got a circle going here you say I'm not led by the spirit because i break the rules i say I'm not under the rules because I'm led by the spirit
No not really it is not a circle at all. That is what God's Word says.

We either believe God's Word or we do not. However, unbelievers have no part in God's KINGDOM.

I do not judge you it is between you and God as God's Word is the one that will judge us all in the last day and is why we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.

John 12
47,
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48, He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

Studyman

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i don't believe I'm neglecting justice mercy and faith
i focus on those

we both see the same evidence but our perceptions are affected by our personalities

just like Luke and John were both inspired by the same holy spirit but their Greek vocabulary is very different
No, Not the same spirit Dan. One or both of us is deceived regarding this chapter. We can't both be right in this case.


In Matt. 5, Is the "Them" who taught of old time, Moses as you preach, or the Jews, that Jesus just rebuked?

You didn't provide any evidence, you just "believe" the "them" is Moses. I know this is widely taught, but I don't really care what the Pope says, or Jim Bakker. I am only interested in what the scriptures say.

This is a fundamental question about truth or lies.

One is truth and the other is a lie. One is a righteous teaching, the other is a deception, wicked and sinful.

One is truth and of the Spirit, one is a lie and of the flesh. One is from God, the other from satan.

One implies that it is the Pharisees who needed correcting. The other implies it is the God of Abraham that needs correcting.

One Implies God's Laws are not to be trusted.

The other implies that the Mainstream Preachers that killed the Prophets can't be trusted.

One implies God taught one thing in the OT, and Jesus changed this teaching.

The other implies God taught one thing and the Pharisees corrupted this teaching.

It has nothing to do with personalities Dan. It is a fundamental question of truth or deception.

Was Jesus correcting God or man in Matt. 5. How you see the entire Gospel is influenced by the answer you choose.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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No not really it is not a circle at all. That is what God's Word says.

We either believe God's Word or we do not. However, unbelievers have no part in God's KINGDOM.

I do not judge you it is between you and God as God's Word is the one that will judge us all in the last day and is why we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.

John 12
47,
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48, He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
"I'm not under the rules because I'm led by the spirit"

is basically a quote from Galatians, it is part of God's word
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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No, Not the same spirit Dan. One or both of us is deceived regarding this chapter. We can't both be right in this case.


In Matt. 5, Is the "Them" who taught of old time, Moses as you preach, or the Jews, that Jesus just rebuked?

You didn't provide any evidence, you just "believe" the "them" is Moses. I know this is widely taught, but I don't really care what the Pope says, or Jim Bakker. I am only interested in what the scriptures say.

This is a fundamental question about truth or lies.

One is truth and the other is a lie. One is a righteous teaching, the other is a deception, wicked and sinful.

One is truth and of the Spirit, one is a lie and of the flesh. One is from God, the other from satan.

One implies that it is the Pharisees who needed correcting. The other implies it is the God of Abraham that needs correcting.

One Implies God's Laws are not to be trusted.

The other implies that the Mainstream Preachers that killed the Prophets can't be trusted.

One implies God taught one thing in the OT, and Jesus changed this teaching.

The other implies God taught one thing and the Pharisees corrupted this teaching.

It has nothing to do with personalities Dan. It is a fundamental question of truth or deception.

Was Jesus correcting God or man in Matt. 5. How you see the entire Gospel is influenced by the answer you choose.
God said Don't kill

Moses is the human agent through whom it was delivered
 

lightbearer

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"I'm not under the rules because I'm led by the spirit"

is basically a quote from Galatians, it is part of God's word
If you are not under the law; the Schoolmaster that brings us to the Faith of CHrist you are not to be living outside of that which was written that ascribes to righteousness through the Spirit. For we are dead nevertheless we live, yet not us, but Christ liveth in us; and the life we now live we live by the faith of the Son of GOD.

So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law, the Word; The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
 

Studyman

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You just said the law is written on our hearts. So no need to look for it in the written word, but in the living example of our Lord and Saviour. :)
Absolutely, He is the Author of my Faith.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

But Jesus also warned that there are "many" who come in His name to deceive. (Lie about God) How do we know if we have been influenced by these liars or not?

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

So we would need to know what the written Word is to make sure some cleaver, subtle, self proclaimed "Minister of Righteousness" who preaches in the name of Jesus, hasn't convinced us of a lie about God.

And as far as the Sabbath Jesus created for man in concerned, He most certainly walked in it. And He is our living example. It's pretty much a no-brainer that those interested in the Jesus of the Bible would walk in it as well. Regardless of the preaching of the Pope or Jimmy Bakker.
 

Studyman

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God said Don't kill

Moses is the human agent through whom it was delivered
God said don't hate your brother in your heart too didn't He? Moses also delivered that, didn't he? But the "THEM" Jesus was referring to didn't preach that did they? Whomever the "THEM" was, omitted the part about hating being just as bad as killing. God didn't omit this teaching, and neither did His human agent Moses, but the "THEM" did.

That is why Jesus didn't say "You have heard it said from Moses", because He wasn't speaking about Moses.

That's why He didn't say:

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of Moses, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

He wasn't speaking about God's human agent Moses as you preach. He was speaking about the Pharisees who He just rebuked.