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Thread: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_473 View Post
    as it is written

    The law is only an unclear picture of the good things coming in the future; it is not the real thing.*

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...10&version=NCV



    [d]Sacrifice and meal offering You have not desired;
    My ears You have*[e]opened;
    Burnt offering and sin offering You have not required.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...0&version=NASB


    So you think "Thou shall not kill" is an unclear picture of the good things coming in the future?

    OK!

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    So you think "Thou shall not kill" is an unclear picture of the good things coming in the future?

    OK!
    And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. (Rev 21:4)

    And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away. (Isa 35:10)

    Here on Mount Zion the LORD Almighty will prepare a banquet for all the nations of the world—a banquet of the richest food and the finest wine. Here he will suddenly remove the cloud of sorrow that has been hanging over all the nations. The Sovereign LORD will destroy death forever! He will wipe away the tears from everyone's eyes and take away the disgrace his people have suffered throughout the world. The LORD himself has spoken. (Isa 25:6-8)

    Salvation is by faith alone. No man should judge regarding meat, holy days, festivals and the
    Sabbath (Col 2:16). Our rest is in Jesus (Mat 11:28) he is our Great High Priest,
    King of Kings and Lord of Lords who gave himself for our salvation.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    So you think "Thou shall not kill" is an unclear picture of the good things coming in the future?

    OK!
    definitely!

    the entire law,
    including the 10

    is not the real thing.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by PS View Post
    And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. (Rev 21:4)

    And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away. (Isa 35:10)

    Here on Mount Zion the LORD Almighty will prepare a banquet for all the nations of the world—a banquet of the richest food and the finest wine. Here he will suddenly remove the cloud of sorrow that has been hanging over all the nations. The Sovereign LORD will destroy death forever! He will wipe away the tears from everyone's eyes and take away the disgrace his people have suffered throughout the world. The LORD himself has spoken. (Isa 25:6-8)

    that sounds like the real thing!
    PS likes this.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_473 View Post
    "When did he do that?"

    here's an example

    if the Spirit is leading you, you are not under the law.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...s5&version=NCV
    The reason Christians are not under the law is we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Thus we are forgiven our sins. Keep in mind the definition of sin is breaking the law. Oops that pesky law. Atheists will be judged by the law.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endoscopy View Post
    The reason Christians are not under the law is we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Thus we are forgiven our sins. Keep in mind the definition of sin is breaking the law. Oops that pesky law. Atheists will be judged by the law.
    can one break the law if one is not under it?

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endoscopy View Post
    The reason Christians are not under the law is we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Thus we are forgiven our sins. Keep in mind the definition of sin is breaking the law. Oops that pesky law. Atheists will be judged by the law.
    why would you say that the law was pesky?



    The teachings of the*Lord*are perfect;
    ****they give new strength.
    The rules of theLord*can be trusted;
    ****they make plain people wise.
    8*The orders of the*Lord*are right;
    ****they make people happy.
    The commands of the*Lord*are pure;
    ****they light up the way.
    9*Respect for theLord*is good;
    ****it will last forever.
    The judgments of the*Lord*are true;
    ****they are completely right.
    10*They are worth more than gold,
    ****even the purest gold.
    They are sweeter than honey,
    ****even the finest honey.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...19&version=NCV

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endoscopy View Post
    The reason Christians are not under the law is we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Thus we are forgiven our sins. Keep in mind the definition of sin is breaking the law. Oops that pesky law. Atheists will be judged by the law.
    are you viewing "not under the law" as forgiven the penalties of transgressing the law?


    if so that would mean that Jesus was born with the penalties of transgressing the law.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_473 View Post
    why would you say that the law was pesky?



    The teachings of the*Lord*are perfect;
    ****they give new strength.
    The rules of theLord*can be trusted;
    ****they make plain people wise.
    8*The orders of the*Lord*are right;
    ****they make people happy.
    The commands of the*Lord*are pure;
    ****they light up the way.
    9*Respect for theLord*is good;
    ****it will last forever.
    The judgments of the*Lord*are true;
    ****they are completely right.
    10*They are worth more than gold,
    ****even the purest gold.
    They are sweeter than honey,
    ****even the finest honey.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...19&version=NCV
    Because of the fact Jesus said the law is in place until the heavens and earth disappear.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endoscopy View Post
    Because of the fact Jesus said the law is in place until the heavens and earth disappear.
    therein would be a paradox, I believe

    if one says that the law is still in place

    and

    that one is not under it

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_473 View Post
    therein would be a paradox, I believe

    if one says that the law is still in place

    and

    that one is not under it
    Jesus said the law is in place until heaven and earth disappear. That means we all are under it. When we admit that we sin we are admitting the law is in place. That is because sin is transgression of the law!! The issue for Christians is grace through faith in Jesus means we are not under the penalty of the law. Non believers however will be judged under the law and pay the penalty!!
    tourist and beta like this.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endoscopy View Post
    Jesus said the law is in place until heaven and earth disappear. That means we all are under it. When we admit that we sin we are admitting the law is in place. That is because sin is transgression of the law!! The issue for Christians is grace through faith in Jesus means we are not under the penalty of the law. Non believers however will be judged under the law and pay the penalty!!
    You said we are all under the Law. Is Christ under it? Because I live, move, and have my being in Him.

    And Scripture teaches anything not of faith is sin to the person.
    Last edited by Cee; 1 Week Ago at 09:14 PM.
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cee View Post
    You said we are all under the Law. Is Christ under it? Because I live, move, and have my being in Him.

    And Scripture teaches anything not of faith is sin to the person.
    Jesus lived under the law and was the only one who never sinned. Thus making Him the unblemished Lamb of God and making Him the perfect sacrifice for all of our sins if we accept Him as our savior. Those who reject Him will be judged under the law.

    Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
    Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

    Salt and Light
    13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
    14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
    The Fulfillment of the Law
    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
    Last edited by Endoscopy; 1 Week Ago at 09:20 PM.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    I take the word of Jesus that the law is in place. Here is the law.

    In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

    List of the 613 laws in the Torah
    All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses

    Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    The Law is still in place, but in Christ, we are dead to it and alive to Christ. It was given until God could show mercy on us. If we have not received God’s mercy it is still alive to us and if we miss even one point we are guilty of it. If you are justified in Christ, now you are not lead by the Law, but by the Spirit. Sure the Law can teach us how to avoid sin, but to exceed it we enter in His righteousness and chase Love and by doing so we also avoid sin. Love fulfills the Law. We who are justified live by faith. And it pleases Him. This doesn’t mean we do things like lie, it means we even love those who try to defraud us. It is a far higher call and it requires the grace of God. Paul says, some eat meat and other veggies, and says it is sin for those who do it without faith, so to one it is faith and to the other it is sin, this isn’t a Law he’s teaching, but purity of heart in regard to our personal walk with our Lord.
    Last edited by Cee; 6 Days Ago at 10:26 PM.
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_473 View Post
    are you viewing "not under the law" as forgiven the penalties of transgressing the law?


    if so that would mean that Jesus was born with the penalties of transgressing the law.
    You have a flawed theology. Jesus was the only one who never broke the law. He was sinless. That fact made Him the unblemished Lamb of God and an acceptable sacrifice for our sins. If you admit to being a sinner then you admit the law is in place like Jesus stated. Sin is transgression of the law. Basic definitions.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cee View Post
    The Law is still in place, but in Christ, we are dead to it and alive to Christ. It was given until God could show mercy on us. If we have not received God’s mercy it is still alive to us and if we miss even one point we are guilty of it. If you are justified in Christ, now you are not lead by the Law, but by the Spirit. Sure the Law can teach us how to avoid sin, but to exceed it we enter in His righteousness and chase Love and by doing so we also avoid sin. Love fulfills the Law. We who are justified live by faith. And it pleases Him. This doesn’t mean we do things like lie, it means we even love those who try to defraud us. It is a far higher call and it requires the grace of God. Paul says, some eat meat and other veggies, and says it is sin for those who do it without faith, so to one it is faith and to the other it is sin, this isn’t a Law he’s teaching, but purity of heart in regard to our personal walk with our Lord.
    Here are Paul's thoughts on the subject. A dilemma we all face.

    Romans 7 NIV

    14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
    So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_473 View Post
    therein would be a paradox, I believe

    if one says that the law is still in place

    and

    that one is not under it
    No paradox.

    Either you misunderstand what “under the law” means. Or Jesus is confused about His Fathers Laws. I’m going with the Christ on this one. I think it is your understanding that is flawed, not the Christ’s.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    I think Moses was a Priest, he gave Aaron the Priesthood, only a High Priest can do this. If you want to preach Moses wasn't a Priest, you go for it.

    5 Exalt ye the LORD our God, and worship at his footstool; for he is holy.6 Moses and Aaron among his priests, and Samuel among them that call upon his name; they called upon the LORD, and he answered them.



    Levi is no longer a priest because he corrupted the Priesthood.

    Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

    8 For finding fault with them, (Levite Priests) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

    Aaron wasn't given priesthood by Moses; he was made priest by God, according to the Law given at Sinai. Exodus 28 -- is it Moses giving commands or is it the LORD?

    so Psalm 99 isn't referring to Moses as priest by Law: the Law, given by God, made Aaron priest. high priest of a certain covenant. covenant is the theme of Hebrews 8.
    yet Levi isn't priest anymore - though he was established as priest through this covenant law. Levi can only be removed by a change in law because Levi is established by law ((Deut. 18 e.g.))

    'if the first covenant had been faultless' it says. a new covenant was made, and 'where there is a change in covenant..'
    the covenant was established by Law.
    the covenant was replaced by a new one.

    ((here's a good place to read Deut. 4:13 again))

    is it time now for one of your little rants about immutable law?
    Last edited by posthuman; 6 Days Ago at 05:23 AM.
    good news gives health to the bones
    (Proverbs 15:30)

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    No paradox.

    Either you misunderstand what “under the law” means. Or Jesus is confused about His Fathers Laws. I’m going with the Christ on this one. I think it is your understanding that is flawed, not the Christ’s.

    hmm did Jesus lie to Paul?

    "you are not under law, but grace"
    good news gives health to the bones
    (Proverbs 15:30)

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