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Thread: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    in the opening discourse that John writes in his Gospel, after he says " the Word became flesh.... he says " the Law came through Moses...

    the Law. singular. funny how people that very selectively choose to quote Scripture give sound bites with opinion commentary, instead of letting Scripture interpret Scripture. ( it does, but one needs to read all of in context, and chronological order.)
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_473 View Post
    I think it's interesting that you use "sin is transgression of the law"
    which i believe is a kjv-ism

    i think a better translation is
    Sin is being without law
    either way amounts to the same thing whether you reject it or transgress it....
    fact being you are LAWLESS !!!

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    For my part I believe 'not under law' means 'not under law'


    I don't find it necessary to rewrite scripture.
    let's put it another way...if we are not under law does that mean we are 'above the law ???

    in any case...WHICH law are we even talking about ? we lump them all together as if there was no difference between Lev 10v10.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Transgression of the law / lawlessness is not a complete definition of sin. The scripture also says whatever is not of faith is sin, and that the law is not of faith. The law is certainly not sinful, that's not what this means, if it is used lawfully. But it means there must be sin apart from transgression of law. Death reigned even among those who did not sin as Adam, who disobeyed a direct command, without being deceived.
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    let's put it another way...if we are not under law does that mean we are 'above the law ???

    in any case...WHICH law are we even talking about ? we lump them all together as if there was no difference between Lev 10v10.
    There are more directions than under & above
    good news gives health to the bones
    (Proverbs 15:30)

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    Notice that says "the Law" not 'the priesthood of Levi'


    Who ya gon' believe?
    I take the word of Jesus on the law.

    Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
    Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

    Salt and Light
    13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
    14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
    The Fulfillment of the Law
    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Here is the law.

    In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.


    List of the 613 laws in the Torah
    All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses


    Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
    Last edited by Endoscopy; 6 Days Ago at 10:35 AM.
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    Transgression of the law / lawlessness is not a complete definition of sin. The scripture also says whatever is not of faith is sin, and that the law is not of faith. The law is certainly not sinful, that's not what this means, if it is used lawfully. But it means there must be sin apart from transgression of law. Death reigned even among those who did not sin as Adam, who disobeyed a direct command, without being deceived.
    It seems to me that we can sin IGNORANTLY....does not always have to be wilfully with intent or from lack of understanding or knowing Truth.... there are various reasons why we sin and only GOD can read the intents of the heart and judge accordingly !
    It helps to be 'humble and repentant and acknowledge our limitations always !
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    It seems to me that we can sin IGNORANTLY....does not always have to be wilfully with intent or from lack of understanding or knowing Truth.... there are various reasons why we sin and only GOD can read the intents of the heart and judge accordingly !
    It helps to be 'humble and repentant and acknowledge our limitations always !
    it does not matter. God's system is not like man-made courts. don't conflate the two. in man-made courts, a speeding ticket and theft , while they both break the law, they do not carry the same penalty.

    in God's system, one sin , of any kind, stains the soul. a Holy and Righteous and Transcendent God cannot tolerate sin of any kind.

    remember " though your sins be as scarlet , I will wash them white as snow ". sins. one word.

    ( paraphrase of Isaiah 1 v.18 . )
    Last edited by gb9; 6 Days Ago at 11:14 AM.
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Whoever has died is no longer under law

    Romans 7:6
    But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

    That's us, as far as the law, which is the power of sin, is able to judge and either approve or condemn. Dead. Free!

    Colossians 3:3
    For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

    He makes the dead spring to life
    good news gives health to the bones
    (Proverbs 15:30)

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by gb9 View Post
    it does not matter. God's system is not like man-made courts. don't conflate the two. in man-made courts, a speeding ticket and theft , while they both break the law, they do not carry the same penalty.

    in God's system, one sin , of any kind, stains the soul. a Holy and Righteous and Transcendent God cannot tolerate sin of any kind.

    remember " though your sins be as scarlet , I will wash them white as snow ". sins. one word.

    ( paraphrase of Isaiah 1 v.18 . )
    Break one part, guilty of all. Perfect or not perfect; mostly-perfect doesn't cut it. And He's perfected forever all who are being made holy! By His own sacrifice! The sacrifice of human flesh ain't instructed in Leviticus, tell you what!

    It's the same as what i'm hoping to make studydude understand; the Law that established the priesthood of Levi, he accepts as removed. You can't break one part and think the totality is whole. Jackson has been trying for months to get the same truth across, pointing out that the penalty of sin is in the same Law as the command not to sin. You can't shatter the Law into pieces and pick up only a handful of them and think it's not broken.
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Colossians 3:3 doesn't say 'you have mostly died'

    I believe died means died
    good news gives health to the bones
    (Proverbs 15:30)

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by gb9 View Post
    in the opening discourse that John writes in his Gospel, after he says " the Word became flesh.... he says " the Law came through Moses...

    the Law. singular. funny how people that very selectively choose to quote Scripture give sound bites with opinion commentary, instead of letting Scripture interpret Scripture. ( it does, but one needs to read all of in context, and chronological order.)
    Did Moses give Abraham God’s Law?

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endoscopy View Post
    You have a flawed theology. Jesus was the only one who never broke the law. He was sinless. That fact made Him the unblemished Lamb of God and an acceptable sacrifice for our sins. If you admit to being a sinner then you admit the law is in place like Jesus stated. Sin is transgression of the law. Basic definitions.
    But when the set time had fully come,God sent his Son,born of a woman,
    born under the law

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...s4&version=NIV


    if
    "under the law"

    means
    "having the penalties of transgressing the law"

    then

    Jesus was born
    "having the penalties of transgressing the law"



    I don't think that.
    I think
    "under the law"
    means
    "obligated to do what the law says"

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    Whoever has died is no longer under law

    Romans 7:6
    But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

    That's us, as far as the law, which is the power of sin, is able to judge and either approve or condemn. Dead. Free!

    Colossians 3:3
    For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

    He makes the dead spring to life
    Why??? So you can create your own High days, your own religion? Why did He pay the penalty for your rebellion and indifference of the God of the Bible? So you could reject His instruction once again?

    I don’t think so.

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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    No paradox.

    Either you misunderstand what “under the law” means. Or Jesus is confused about His Fathers Laws. I’m going with the Christ on this one. I think it is your understanding that is flawed, not the Christ’s.
    I believe you have presented a false dichotomy

    I believe there is at least one other possible solution

    here
    The whole law is fulfilled by obeying this one command. “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...5&version=NIRV
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    For my part I believe 'not under law' means 'not under law'


    I don't find it necessary to rewrite scripture.
    yes, the common meaning that people intuitively get when they read that phrase

    and it fits well with other places in Galatians where Paul uses a phrase that starts with "under the"
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    either way amounts to the same thing whether you reject it or transgress it....
    fact being you are LAWLESS !!!
    I disagree that it amounts to the same thing

    I don't know of any Christians who don't keep the Sabbath and are also without any law

    for example
    Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    Why??? So you can create your own High days, your own religion? Why did He pay the penalty for your rebellion and indifference of the God of the Bible? So you could reject His instruction once again?

    I don’t think so.
    Does reading Colossians 3 always make you talk this way?
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    either way amounts to the same thing whether you reject it or transgress it....
    fact being you are LAWLESS !!!
    also

    To those who don’t have the law I became like one who doesn’t have the law. I did this even though I am not free from God’s law. I am under Christ’s law.*

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...9&version=NIRV
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    Default Re: GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

    Colossians 3:2-3
    Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

    This is where it's supposed to put your mind.

    Not, for example, on such things as malice and slander ((v.8)), and neither the things as described in 2:20-23, which make a false appearance of wisdom but are ultimately of no value to save, as though a form of godliness that denies His power & the reality of His authority.
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