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Thread: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    Actually, we do have such directives. 1 Corinthians 14:14-17 King James Version (KJV)
    It is the EXACT OPPOSITE of a directive, and I already addressed this clause by clause. In modern terms Paul is saying "You do not any other lingo". Pray with your spirit as well as your mind. Which means simple, sincere, honest, everyday prayer.
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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    I have never met a non-fake tongue. So far still learned free vocalization, sometimes mixed with languages known to speaker (like with English, Spanish, whatever they heard somewhere).
    Thanks for answering.
    Just so you know I wasn’t going at you but just didn’t understand what you were saying.

    Thanks for clarifying
    Lord

    Help me to be the person my dog thinks I am.

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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    It is the EXACT OPPOSITE of a directive, and I already addressed this clause by clause. In modern terms Paul is saying "You do not any other lingo". Pray with your spirit as well as your mind. Which means simple, sincere, honest, everyday prayer.
    Unfortunately for you, your reasoning is fallacious. It doesn't line up with the whole chapter, nor the specifics such as tongues being spoken outside of Church. The fact that prayer is something done in private and that one can pray in tongues, and it even says to the tongue speaker to do so between God and himself, refutes your entire argument.

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    Senior Member BenFTW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillG View Post
    This could be an interesting thread.

    I think potentially there are going to be 3 views here.

    1. Cessationism
    2. Continuationism
    3. I have no idea

    Those with the 1st view as I understand it believe that the gifts bestowed on the early church ceased after the apostolic age, which includes tongues. And that we now have scripture to reveal God and that’s all we need.

    Those with the 2nd view beleive all the gifts are still given today. And therefore we still have an apostolic church today.

    I myself am in the 2nd view.

    With regards to tongues I will tell you a very negative experience I had with those in view 2.
    I was once told that because I didn’t speak in tongues it was evidence that I wasn’t saved.
    I was even told that I could force it by reciting “She will come on a Honda” then speed it up, then eventually my mind would eventually be open to speaking in tongues.

    Please I ask anyone responding to this thread do not say this becuase you are condemning a believer who has come to Jesus through faith alone.

    I can count between the thumb on my left hand the thumb on my right hand the amount of times I have spoken in tongues.
    And all of those times it just started flowing from me. This happened in my private time with God and boy did I feel so close to him.

    I also remember one time and the only time I have experienced this in church.

    Someone started to sing in tongues, and I though what a beatiful voice, then within a few minutes someone else stated singing as well also a beautiful voice (and I knew this person and beleive me I had heard him singing normally and it wasn’t beautiful)

    And then they started interacting with each other and they were opposite sides of the church.

    Then other people started to sing in English when the stopped. It was spontaneous.
    I didn’t sing as I was enjoying it and found myself praising God with words.

    It really was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced. Like a choir of angels.

    To be honest I find it difficult to believe that the gifts ceased with the apostles.
    Signs and wonders were used to help establish the church and I beleive we need it today in our church.

    I genuinely do not believe that God with give the church gifts for a set period of time then say “Ok that’s it just read the bible”

    Anyway I would just like to say that a gift is given by God according to his purpose. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are gifts.
    And If we don’t have the gift of tongues then we don’t it.
    It doesn’t mean God loves us less or loves us more if we do.

    Ben, I hope I haven’t detracted from your thread.

    But I do ask whatever your thoughts please let us ensure we discuss without condemning.
    Cessationism is something I wish to tackle on another thread (I've been planning on making). First, however, I'm doing research on it, Cessationism, and how people reached such conclusions.
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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by shrume View Post
    If Christians are to seek tongues as a gift, that leaves the door open for people to claim that they sought it, but God did not give it to them. That could leave them thinking that they are not worthy, or that there is some reason, some fault with them, for not receiving it. Also, it would make God a respecter of persons, something He is not.

    Manifestations and gifts are not the same thing. EVERY Christian has the gift of the Holy Spirit, enabling him to operate the manifestations of that gift, something God wants all Christians to do.

    I believe the Bible is true when Paul, by revelation, said that "I would like all of you to speak in tongues".
    He also emphasized that not all did speak in tongues or operate in the gifts of healing. How do you reconcile the two? Also, just because God grants one person something and another nothing doesn't make Him a respecter of persons, it means He is sovereign and as the scripture shows, distributes the gifts severally as He will. He isn't obligated to give a person the gift of prophecy, or a word of knowledge. We can't make a demand of it, either. It is His will. We seek and He grants, if it is His will.

    I do like your posts defending the true nature of tongues though, and wanted to at least show my appreciation for the defense you're putting up. Keep it up, its nice to have a person expressing an informed biblical stance.

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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    ...and it even says to the tongue speaker to do so between God and himself, refutes your entire argument.
    Actually it does not. What that means is that only God understood what was being said, and neither the speaker nor the hearers comprehended anything. Then Paul says: THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

    That is the tenor of the whole chapter -- what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. And today Paul would say that the gibberish spoken as "tongues" is NOT ACCEPTABLE. Those NT tongues were genuine human languages spoken supernaturally, just as in Acts 2. Why should we assume that a new phenomenon of ecstatic utterances happened in Corinth when the same words -- glosse, glossa, glossais -- are used throughout, and no "glossolalia"?

    Then he said that within the assembly he would rather speak 5 intelligible words than 10,000 in tongues! So what does that make tongues? If Paul said it then God said it, since he wrote by Divine inspiration. And he certainly did not imply that in private that would be OK, since no spiritual gift was given for self-edification, always for the edification of others.
    Last edited by Nehemiah6; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    I like your topic, specifically that you specified the topic to be tongues outside of church. Prior to reading this post of yours, I thought you didn't believe in tongues at all.

    My question to the skeptics is... Why should tongues (even if not being what some think is real, necessary, or whatever) if being done by the individual outside of the church setting, draw any criticism whatsoever? Are people not allowed to worship God in whatever manner they see fit as long as it is not directly harming someone else?
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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Actually, we do have such directives.

    1 Corinthians 14:14-17 King James Version (KJV)

    14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
    15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
    16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
    17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

    In these verses we see that it speaks of praying in tongues. There is your directive, to pray and even sing in tongues (verse 15).
    I think you meant half of the directive? You left out the important part to pray with understanding. and even sing in tongues with understanding.

    God does not understand gibalygoosh speaking making noise into the air with no meaning.. Is it a secret language?

    I think the focus is on understanding not speaking into the air? That's what babies do speak into the air do until they lean how to understand and others understand them . I think it time to put away childish things. Its called conversation its how the gospel is understood.

    Could you imagine opening up the Bible and it reads ..ghuurthhw bgg hioooahvvbxc jbb stouvomocooo. Goobligoosh 1:1-2.

    Could you imagine being a on message board and some one would say this to you.... riiwng bvip wlmn zvghu dusvb asoigh h haugg aabbyuth qazzzz And you would answer back. furhhyt tuhebap[,knjxcz uigasdfbb . Would you both not be barbarians to each other?

    For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.1Co 14:8
    .
    There are many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

    Therefore if any man know not the meaning of the voice of God speaking gibalygoosh, They shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto them.

    Where the gift in that? If it feels good do it and your feelings prove it is good ?

    Is God a barbarian?. Are you receiving new revelations as private interpretations or is that possibility sealed up till the end of time and new prophecy has ceased .

    The Catholic say they are receiving new revelations and therefore violate the warning not to add or subtract from the whole or perfect living abiding Word of god. . Are there any laws missing from the book of prophecy by which we could know him more adequately or intimately?

    Are you Catholic and even if proven wrong you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true?

    Pope Urban VIII on Private Revelation
    His Holiness, Pope Urban VIII stated: "In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, "because you believed it to be true."(Pope Urban VIII, 1623-44)
    Last edited by garee; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:34 AM.

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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by KelbyofGod View Post
    I like your topic, specifically that you specified the topic to be tongues outside of church. Prior to reading this post of yours, I thought you didn't believe in tongues at all.

    My question to the skeptics is... Why should tongues (even if not being what some think is real, necessary, or whatever) if being done by the individual outside of the church setting, draw any criticism whatsoever? Are people not allowed to worship God in whatever manner they see fit as long as it is not directly harming someone else?
    I believe in tongues. Tongues is a sign to those who reject prophecy. Signs are for those who rebel against God. Are people not allowed to worship God in whatever manner they see fit as long as it is not directly harming someone else?

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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    Nothing, so far it is just 3rd or 4th hand saying.

    Neither you nor me were present.
    Soooo if neither of us was present during the Civil War does that mean it never happened? Thats odd reasoning. Because you aren't there that makes the preacher a liar? Thats ridiculous.

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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillG View Post
    But some will
    True. Some will act Christian when they are not. We know them by the fruit they have in their life. Fruit that only the Holy Spirit can produce. Gal 5:22-23

    God knows the heart.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by garee View Post
    I think you meant half of the directive? You left out the important part to pray with understanding. and even sing in tongues with understanding.

    God does not understand gibalygoosh speaking making noise into the air with no meaning.. Is it a secret language?
    Isn't this what the verse is actually saying:
    I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the understanding; i.e. I will do both
    I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the understanding; i.e. I will do both

    For he that speaks in a tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands; howbeit in the spirit he speaks mysteries . . . It is a believer speaking unto God . . . it is a way of building the relationship between the believer and God . . . secret? - speaking mysteries - speaking secrets unto God.

    I think the focus is on understanding not speaking into the air? That's what babies do speak into the air do until they lean how to understand and others understand them . I think it time to put away childish things. Its called conversation its how the gospel is understood.

    Could you imagine opening up the Bible and it reads ..ghuurthhw bgg hioooahvvbxc jbb stouvomocooo. Goobligoosh 1:1-2.

    Could you imagine being a on message board and some one would say this to you.... riiwng bvip wlmn zvghu dusvb asoigh h haugg aabbyuth qazzzz And you would answer back. furhhyt tuhebap[,knjxcz uigasdfbb . Would you both not be barbarians to each other?
    The purpose of speaking in tongues is not for the message board . . . not for general conversation . . .
    For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.1Co 14:8
    .
    There are many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

    Therefore if any man know not the meaning of the voice of God speaking gibalygoosh, They shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto them.

    Where the gift in that? If it feels good do it and your feelings prove it is good ?

    Is God a barbarian?. Are you receiving new revelations as private interpretations or is that possibility sealed up till the end of time and new prophecy has ceased .
    Let's look at the context of what you are quoting . . . Paul is relating how tongues would be if NOT interpreted. In v. 5 he says that he would rather we prophesy but if one speaks in a tongue, they should interpret so that the church will be edified . . . so if I come to you speaking in tongues without the interpretation; what profit is there? So, tongues without interpretation is "speaking into the air" in the context of a group meeting. In a group meeting, tongues should be interpreted for the body of Christ to be edified . . . therefore unless you interpret - keep silent (14:28).
    The Catholic say they are receiving new revelations and therefore violate the warning not to add or subtract from the whole or perfect living abiding Word of god. . Are there any laws missing from the book of prophecy by which we could know him more adequately or intimately?

    Are you Catholic and even if proven wrong you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true?

    Pope Urban VIII on Private Revelation
    His Holiness, Pope Urban VIII stated: "In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, "because you believed it to be true."(Pope Urban VIII, 1623-44)
    I don't know what the Catholic Church or receiving new revelation have to do with the subject.
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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    Unfortunately for you, your reasoning is fallacious. It doesn't line up with the whole chapter, nor the specifics such as tongues being spoken outside of Church. The fact that prayer is something done in private and that one can pray in tongues, and it even says to the tongue speaker to do so between God and himself, refutes your entire argument.
    The Holy Spirit cannot use tongues to utter His own intercessions which happens to be unspeakable as in even His groanings cannot be uttered.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

    The truth is that Jesus had said this:

    Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

    That is proof that you are reading Paul's words wrong in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter to exalt yourself as a tongue speaker using tongues for private use as if you are so much more special than the rest of us because you have tongues to "pray".

    Think about what you are arguing for. If tongues was really meant for private use, then what are you doing? Bragging about it to non-tongue speakers? If not every body is supposed to get tongues, then why even talk among other tongue speakers about using it privately when you insist that such an event is for the individual believer?

    Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

    So if using tongues privately is meant to be, then why brag about it? Why tell any one about it? To be seen of men? To testify that you are doing something that not every believer is doing? That by using tongues privately, non-tongue speakers are missing out on something? That you have something that you take to mean you are closer to God in that way for?

    There is a thread that attempts to explain all the benefits for speaking in tongues privately, but you know what? YOU cannot say what that tongue was for the last time you used it privately.

    That is proof that tongues is not to be used privately because it has to come with interpretation for that tongue to even be fruitful to the tongue speaker to KNOW & UNDERSTAND what that tongue is doing at the time it was manifested in the assembly.

    Paul was not teaching how tongues can be used privately at all. You missed the point why he was comparing tongues against prophesy because tongues is not a stand alone gift, but prophesy is. That is why prophesy is better than tongues.

    Scripture refutes how you are applying Paul's words to use tongues privately which is why you DON'T have the real God's gift of tongues at all. You were warned not to believe every spirit but test them; including the tongues it brings.

    You can keep your tongue. I sure don't need it to pray to the Lord. The Father knows everything before I ask Him any way. I would rather know what I had prayed for so that I can give the Father genuine thanks in Jesus's name for known answers to prayers than babble and not know what I just did in tongues. I have the King James Bible for my edification. I can worship Him in spirit and in truth knowing I am praising God in my normal tongue. I am more blessed than you in doing all those things that way than what you claim you guys are blessed by for using tongue privately, and the kicker is... you can do it too. No extra supernatural phenomenon required. No need to brag about in having anything extra in separating yourself from the rest of the body of Christ to worship Him in spirit & in truth TOGETHER.

    You oppose yourself and know it not. Only God can peradventure to deliver you from this snare of the devil. I cannot.

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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by KelbyofGod View Post
    Why should tongues (even if not being what some think is real, necessary, or whatever) if being done by the individual outside of the church setting, draw any criticism whatsoever?
    You are correct in that we should not interfere with what people do privately.

    The issue is whether praying in tongues is even rooted in Scripture. And sooner or later, that activity will spill over into the assembly, since people will talk about their wonderful ecstatic experiences in self-edification and how "Spirit-filled" they have become.

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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    The Holy Spirit cannot use tongues to utter His own intercessions which happens to be unspeakable as in even His groanings cannot be uttered.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

    The truth is that Jesus had said this:

    Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

    That is proof that you are reading Paul's words wrong in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter to exalt yourself as a tongue speaker using tongues for private use as if you are so much more special than the rest of us because you have tongues to "pray".

    Think about what you are arguing for. If tongues was really meant for private use, then what are you doing? Bragging about it to non-tongue speakers? If not every body is supposed to get tongues, then why even talk among other tongue speakers about using it privately when you insist that such an event is for the individual believer?

    Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

    So if using tongues privately is meant to be, then why brag about it? Why tell any one about it? To be seen of men? To testify that you are doing something that not every believer is doing? That by using tongues privately, non-tongue speakers are missing out on something? That you have something that you take to mean you are closer to God in that way for?

    There is a thread that attempts to explain all the benefits for speaking in tongues privately, but you know what? YOU cannot say what that tongue was for the last time you used it privately.

    That is proof that tongues is not to be used privately because it has to come with interpretation for that tongue to even be fruitful to the tongue speaker to KNOW & UNDERSTAND what that tongue is doing at the time it was manifested in the assembly.

    Paul was not teaching how tongues can be used privately at all. You missed the point why he was comparing tongues against prophesy because tongues is not a stand alone gift, but prophesy is. That is why prophesy is better than tongues.

    Scripture refutes how you are applying Paul's words to use tongues privately which is why you DON'T have the real God's gift of tongues at all. You were warned not to believe every spirit but test them; including the tongues it brings.

    You can keep your tongue. I sure don't need it to pray to the Lord. The Father knows everything before I ask Him any way. I would rather know what I had prayed for so that I can give the Father genuine thanks in Jesus's name for known answers to prayers than babble and not know what I just did in tongues. I have the King James Bible for my edification. I can worship Him in spirit and in truth knowing I am praising God in my normal tongue. I am more blessed than you in doing all those things that way than what you claim you guys are blessed by for using tongue privately, and the kicker is... you can do it too. No extra supernatural phenomenon required. No need to brag about in having anything extra in separating yourself from the rest of the body of Christ to worship Him in spirit & in truth TOGETHER.

    You oppose yourself and know it not. Only God can peradventure to deliver you from this snare of the devil. I cannot.
    News flash.
    God put mat 11 in the word just for such folly as yours.

    11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
    12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
    13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
    14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
    15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.
    16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.
    17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
    18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
    19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
    20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.



    Let me help you,

    10
    For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
    See that? Asking is not bad as you erroneously contend.


    11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

    12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
    Interesting how you have such a passion to refute that.

    13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
    Oh no,Jesus should have checked with your teachers before he went off the deep end huh?

    14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
    Amazing how Jesus sets up the naysayers,like healing on the Sabbath,just to rub their noses in it.

    15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.

    Now,lookey here how he SPECIFICALLY WENT TO devil house right after the baptism in the Holy Spirit. See that? See how the PHARASEES MAGICALLY APPEAR AFTER THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT?........nothing has changed.
    Note the M.O. "his power (the Holy Spirit) is from the devil.
    Now,lets see how Jesus deals with them after they "step in it"




    19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
    20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

    Well there you go. There is your teachers that taught you to say we that have recieved the GUARANTEED promise of ASKING AND RECIEVING THE HOLY SPIRIT.....ARE OF THE DEVIL.
    There you go enow. Stand and see the fruit and judgement your teachers will recieve. Pssst,it aint pretty.

    Look at mat 12 how it matches your teachers attacking so perfectly;

    24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
    25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
    26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
    27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
    28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
    29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
    30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
    31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
    32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
    33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
    34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

    38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
    39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

    Notice that even your banner verse is completely out of YOUR ERRONEOUS CONTEXT.
    Jesus is saying "you Holy Spirit smearers" will recieve nothing"


    Last edited by heartofdavid; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:15 AM.
    Waggles likes this.

  16. #56
    Senior Member Kavik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Glossolalia/tongues mimics language, but upon further closer examination, it is simply a façade of language; non-cognitive non-language utterance. A free-vocalization; but for many 'speakers', that free-vocalization is definitely not random. There are patterns and definable word-play.

    If tongues-speech met the criteria of language, I’d be the first to say, “Hey, you’re on to something here that’s supernatural and really needs to be looked at more closely and studied”, but tongues simply isn’t that.

    Let me ask, if you have ever heard someone speak in tongues and thought “That doesn’t sound like tongues” or “That sounds demonic”, what was your basis for thinking that? What was it that made you doubt the ‘authenticity’ of their tongues as opposed to yours? I’d be curious to know.

    Next time you speak tongues, take out your phone; put it on voice recorder, and record yourself for about a minute. Then play it back and take a listen, truly listen to the utterances – write them down as best you can (even if you have to play it back several times) and look at them (it would be nice to see some examples posted here as well). Can you see the patterns, the play on sounds, repetitions of syllables, predictability of syllable structures – then ask yourself, is this language or simply something that mimics it and is only a façade of language? Next, listen to the tongues/glossolalia of say a Shaman from Siberia and you’ll notice he’s producing his tongues the same exact way you are. They may even sound like something you’ve heard – are his ‘tongues’ any less divine than yours?

    Are they a tool by which a person can establish a closer relationship with the divine and thus strengthen their spiritual path? Can their usage even aid in the physical/spiritual healing process? To both questions…Yes, absolutely! I would argue that this is done in both Christian and non-Christian usage on a daily basis.

    It must be noted however, that the use of this tool is highly dependent on one’s faith; the two go hand-in-hand. Tongues cannot correctly be used without faith, no matter what religious path that faith may encompass. For many, both Christians and non-Christians alike, tongues are in fact a very powerful tool, but in the end, still just a tool.

    Are they a heavenly/angelic language or a language spoken somewhere on earth? No, they are not. Tongues are completely self-created whether speakers are consciously aware of it or not. As such, they are neither divine, nor mysterious.

  17. #57
    Senior Member Dino246's Avatar
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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    That is proof that you are reading Paul's words wrong in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter to exalt yourself as a tongue speaker using tongues for private use as if you are so much more special than the rest of us because you have tongues to "pray".

    Think about what you are arguing for. If tongues was really meant for private use, then what are you doing? Bragging about it to non-tongue speakers? If not every body is supposed to get tongues, then why even talk among other tongue speakers about using it privately when you insist that such an event is for the individual believer?
    1 Corinthians 14:4 "One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church." The Greek word rendered "edify" is not the same Greek word rendered "exalt". Even the KJV doesn't render it as "exalt"; they are different concepts! Edification is always a good thing in Scripture.

    How is it that the word rendered "edify" is good, when applied to the church body, but it is suddenly bad when applied to the individual? This is poor hermeneutics.

    Regarding "bragging"; that is so far from what tongue-speakers do, it's clearly a case of your bias poisoning the well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    You oppose yourself and know it not. Only God can peradventure to deliver you from this snare of the devil. I cannot.
    What does "peradventure" mean, as you, specifically, use it here?

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by heartofdavid View Post
    News flash.
    God put mat 11 in the word just for such folly as yours.

    11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
    12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
    13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

    Newsflash... you are quoting the wrong reference. It is not Matthew 11th chapter but Luke 11th chapter.

    Now let me show you Matthew's rendition to see what Jesus was really talking about in Luke 11:13.

    Matthew 7:
    7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

    So is the Holy Spirit a thing, let alone a good thing? Reading the two references together in how they are connected to knocking at the door for those that seek, Jesus is talking about the gospel in seeking eternal life.

    Both references serves as a warning to believers that after having received eternal life and the Holy Spirit at the same time; no believer should seek to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation because that would make the Father look evil as if He did not give you the Holy Spirit as promised the first time when you were saved at the calling of the gospel when you had first believed.

    Now you can quit applying those other verses when YOU are preaching such a receiving of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation. According to the warning in both references, that makes the Father look evil, and He is not. That is on YOU for being a bad witness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. You need His help to see the evil that YOU are doing when preaching another calling; another Holy Spirit to receive after a sign, and thus another gospel, which is what it is; the gospel of tongues.

    You guys are missing what Jesus was really meaning in Luke 11:9-13 as He was talking about salvation and that is why you SHOULD NOT seek to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation for that would be denying the Father in having kept His promise at your salvation.



  19. #59
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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino246 View Post
    1 Corinthians 14:4 "One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church." The Greek word rendered "edify" is not the same Greek word rendered "exalt". Even the KJV doesn't render it as "exalt"; they are different concepts! Edification is always a good thing in Scripture.

    How is it that the word rendered "edify" is good, when applied to the church body, but it is suddenly bad when applied to the individual? This is poor hermeneutics.

    Regarding "bragging"; that is so far from what tongue-speakers do, it's clearly a case of your bias poisoning the well.
    Having tongues to use privately when Paul said the manifestations were to profit the body withal ( 1 Corinthians 12:11 ) is excluding yourself from the body of Christ in having a gift that soley benefits them, which I say cannot be of Him at all.

    In effect, you are claiming that Paul did not know what he was talking about when you claim you can have all those benefits for using tongues privately when he gave the example that the eye cannot say to the body that he has no need of you.

    That means tongues was never meant to be used privately or else, the analogy is an epic fail. It would be meaningless if believers can have their own private worship service in tongues, claiming to have all those benefits and yet cannot tell any one what that tongue was doing last you had used tongues privately. That is a load of baloney & you see it not.

    You use 1 Corinthians 14:4 to prove tongues can be used privately when Paul was comparing tongues against prophesy for why prophesy was better gift to seek after because tongues by itself is not a stand alone gift as it must come with interpretation for the tongue to be understood and finally fruitful to the tongue speaker. You continue to miss Paul's message thru out that chapter to defend tongues privately that does not do anything for the body of Christ but make you look closer to God than every body else because they do not speak in tongues. That is self exaltation and there is no way you cannot escape being glorified by it.

    I do not need tongues for self edification when I KNOW I can get it from the written scripture in the KJV.

    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

    What does "peradventure" mean, as you, specifically, use it here?
    2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

  20. #60
    Senior Member Waggles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    Speaking In Tongues Privately
    ------------------------------------
    Personally I believe it is a waste of time attempting to teach those
    who do not believe the scriptures and therefore do not believe the
    very words of Jesus himself, nor do they believe the Pentecostal gospel.

    The gospel of John informs us that the Father calls disciples to Jesus
    and that no one can come to Jesus except by the Father.
    A disciple to be needs a humble heart open to submission to
    the word and prepared to be obedient to the commandments of
    Jesus concerning the gospel.

    Ye [you all] must be born again by water and Spirit ...

    Arguing and wrestling with the scriptures and denying the truth will
    not lead a person to the true Apostolic gospel written in our NTs.

    Remember in the parable of the sower and the seed the stony ground
    wherein the birds eat the seed straighaway - sad to say but this is
    still true for our times.

    But God is not mocked. He simply plants other vineyards.
    And while the hard-hearted and blind in the West deny the gospel of
    salvation preached by Jesus and the Apostles, the rest of the world is
    enjoying all the benefits of Holy Spirit revivals whereby these signs are
    following those who believe.

    Just go and preach the same gospel as Paul and the apostles did with the hope
    that someone is seeking the truth. For the gospel must be preached right up
    to that very last day; and then the door shall be shut.
    Sherril likes this.

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