Any Chance Jesus Imputes Righteousness to a Person in This Wretched Condition?
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What is amazing is how many Christians think they can live in their old lives and not have the 'things that accompany salvation' and still think they are saved. We have Calvin to blame for this horrible deceit in the church.
...oh, and by the way, you can not be renewed to salvation. God does not allow that. Once you lose it, it's over.
...oh, and by the way, you can not be renewed to salvation. God does not allow that. Once you lose it, it's over.
Nothing but bloviating in this post by a man who does not know the truth....one who compares the sealing of the Holy Spirit to a bowl of left over lasagna has zero credibility in bible knowledge.....same with a man that denies the promises of JESUS, denies the word, calls Jesus a liar and keeps himself saved...no real credibility in the bible....
Go keep yourself saved Phart and see how that works out for you
Go keep yourself saved Phart and see how that works out for you
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And so which part of 'things that accompany salvation' do you reject?
To say the unrepentant 'Christian' still living in his old life is a saved person is to go completely against scripture. So many Calvinist influenced church people think that being created a believer is enough and that not having the things that accompany salvation can't change that predetermined destiny. Little knowing that the things that accompany salvation is what signifies the person who (supposedly) was predetermined by God to be a believer.
IOW, if it really was true that a person was determined ahead of time to be a believer THEIR LIFE WOULD SHOW IT. But as it is, we have this supposed doctrine of God purposely making some people believers and some unbelievers being used to rationalize unrepentant behavior.
To say the unrepentant 'Christian' still living in his old life is a saved person is to go completely against scripture. So many Calvinist influenced church people think that being created a believer is enough and that not having the things that accompany salvation can't change that predetermined destiny. Little knowing that the things that accompany salvation is what signifies the person who (supposedly) was predetermined by God to be a believer.
IOW, if it really was true that a person was determined ahead of time to be a believer THEIR LIFE WOULD SHOW IT. But as it is, we have this supposed doctrine of God purposely making some people believers and some unbelievers being used to rationalize unrepentant behavior.
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Flip your half glass empty reading to the half glass full reading instead.
If a believe fell away, he cannot become unsaved where he needs to be saved again to receive His sacrifice for his sins.
Need another verse to prove that?
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Or how about this one;
Ephesians 4:[SUP]30 [/SUP]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Neither Jesus nor the Holy Spirit is going any where. You can still call God Father even.
John 6:[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.[SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.[SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
So I read that verse to testify that no saved believer can lose their salvation that it is impossible and thus unnecessary for Jesus to offer Himself as a sacrifice for his sins to save him again, because he is still His.
So no matter how wretched a saved believer has become, as long as he draws breath, he can call on Jesus to save him FROM his sins to help him walk in the light with the Father and the Son again in fellowship.
But it is possible that he may become so bad that he will not want to ask Him to save him from his sins; but he is still saved, but at risk of being left behind at the pre trib rapture event when the Father will chasetn & scourge every child He receives so that those left behind will be partakers of His holiness.
2 Peter 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.[SUP]19 [/SUP]While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
So while the wretched still can.. ask Jesus to save them from their sins.. to lay aside every weight & sin in looking to Him to help them live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ, our Good Shepherd.... or else.
Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,[SUP]2 [/SUP]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:[SUP]6 [/SUP]For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Being left behind at the pre trib rapture event to face the fire coming on the earth and the subsequent great tribulation may be for a small season, but there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for being left behind, but God will perform A MIRACLE BY wiping the tears from their eyes to get past that terrible loss for NOT being received as a vessel unto honor in His House, but received as a vessel unto dishonor in His House instead, but he is still in His House. The prodigal son may have given up his inheritance for wild living, but he will return and he will find that he is still son, without that inheritance that he had given up.
If a believe fell away, he cannot become unsaved where he needs to be saved again to receive His sacrifice for his sins.
Need another verse to prove that?
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Or how about this one;
Ephesians 4:[SUP]30 [/SUP]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Neither Jesus nor the Holy Spirit is going any where. You can still call God Father even.
John 6:[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.[SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.[SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
So I read that verse to testify that no saved believer can lose their salvation that it is impossible and thus unnecessary for Jesus to offer Himself as a sacrifice for his sins to save him again, because he is still His.
So no matter how wretched a saved believer has become, as long as he draws breath, he can call on Jesus to save him FROM his sins to help him walk in the light with the Father and the Son again in fellowship.
But it is possible that he may become so bad that he will not want to ask Him to save him from his sins; but he is still saved, but at risk of being left behind at the pre trib rapture event when the Father will chasetn & scourge every child He receives so that those left behind will be partakers of His holiness.
2 Peter 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.[SUP]19 [/SUP]While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
So while the wretched still can.. ask Jesus to save them from their sins.. to lay aside every weight & sin in looking to Him to help them live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ, our Good Shepherd.... or else.
Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,[SUP]2 [/SUP]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:[SUP]6 [/SUP]For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Being left behind at the pre trib rapture event to face the fire coming on the earth and the subsequent great tribulation may be for a small season, but there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for being left behind, but God will perform A MIRACLE BY wiping the tears from their eyes to get past that terrible loss for NOT being received as a vessel unto honor in His House, but received as a vessel unto dishonor in His House instead, but he is still in His House. The prodigal son may have given up his inheritance for wild living, but he will return and he will find that he is still son, without that inheritance that he had given up.
Have you read 1 Corinthians? Those Corinthian believers where living carnal, worldly lives yet Paul calls them washed, sanctified and justified. Why could he make such a claim? Because they were in Christ. They were washed by Jesus Christ not their good works. They were sanctified by Jesus Christ. They were justified by Jesus Christ and not their good works.
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We know the Corinthians were genuinely saved people. And we know that their salvation is entirely on the basis of their faith in Christ. We know this does not mean they could in no wise lose that salvation. How? The unrepentant, purposefully sinning fellow among them had to be turned over to satan IN ORDER TO BE SAVED ON THE DAY OF CHRIST. That means he would lose his salvation unless something was done to prevent it.
See, the penalty for sin is still the same for all people. It's just that the believing, trusting Christian has Christ to absorb that sin and it's penalty through the forgiveness provided by his blood. But if the believer chooses to trample on that grace in a contemptuous absence of appreciation and trust for the blood he will LOSE the application of that blood to his sinning. No sacrifice remains for the person who shows contempt for the blood of Christ in a willful departure from trust in that blood. He will be lost on the Day of Christ, not saved. The church can't see this plain fact in the Bible because of the blinders of OSAS that came into the church through Calvin.
See, the penalty for sin is still the same for all people. It's just that the believing, trusting Christian has Christ to absorb that sin and it's penalty through the forgiveness provided by his blood. But if the believer chooses to trample on that grace in a contemptuous absence of appreciation and trust for the blood he will LOSE the application of that blood to his sinning. No sacrifice remains for the person who shows contempt for the blood of Christ in a willful departure from trust in that blood. He will be lost on the Day of Christ, not saved. The church can't see this plain fact in the Bible because of the blinders of OSAS that came into the church through Calvin.
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Provided the wretched repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. The church at Laodicea was termed "wretched" but the remedy was repentance and genuine faith.
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:.. be zealous therefore, and repent. (Rev 3:17,19).
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:.. be zealous therefore, and repent. (Rev 3:17,19).
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
This person is turned over to Satan so that he might get right (1 Tim. 1:20). You see, his flesh needed to be destroyed. This man was living after the flesh = carnal. The only way to do this is through prayer. Spirit - the complete man. This has to do with his testimony. This person is saved (vs. 11), and does finally get right.
“Day of the Lord Jesus” - His second coming.
This person is turned over to Satan so that he might get right (1 Tim. 1:20). You see, his flesh needed to be destroyed. This man was living after the flesh = carnal. The only way to do this is through prayer. Spirit - the complete man. This has to do with his testimony. This person is saved (vs. 11), and does finally get right.
“Day of the Lord Jesus” - His second coming.
No it does not and the bolded is false based upon your inability to understand the truth because you have been deceived into believing one can lose that which is not losable....
He was cut loose for chastisement and he was always saved......
More left over lasagna (ism) from one who pushes fallacy.....
He was cut loose for chastisement and he was always saved......
More left over lasagna (ism) from one who pushes fallacy.....
No it does not and the bolded is false based upon your inability to understand the truth because you have been deceived into believing one can lose that which is not losable....
He was cut loose for chastisement and he was always saved......
More left over lasagna (ism) from one who pushes fallacy.....
He was cut loose for chastisement and he was always saved......
More left over lasagna (ism) from one who pushes fallacy.....
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"5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Corinthians 5:5 NASB)
Where does it say he is being turned over to satan for chastisement only and not so that he may be saved? Highlight it for us so we can see that what you say is the truth.
I see it plainly saying he is being turned over to satan "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus". It plainly says that. How can you say it does not say that? The words are right there for all to see.
You're not going to turn this into another one of OSAS's 'not really' passages and say it doesn't really mean what it says, are you?
Where does it say he is being turned over to satan for chastisement only and not so that he may be saved? Highlight it for us so we can see that what you say is the truth.
I see it plainly saying he is being turned over to satan "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus". It plainly says that. How can you say it does not say that? The words are right there for all to see.
You're not going to turn this into another one of OSAS's 'not really' passages and say it doesn't really mean what it says, are you?