Can a Person Judge Themselves as Being Saved Without Absolute Assurance?

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Nov 3, 2017
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#1
1 Corinthians 4:4-5
[4] For I am not conscious to myself of any thing, yet am I not hereby justified; but he that judgeth me, is the Lord. [5] Therefore judge not before the time; until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts; and then shall every man have praise from God.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,261
2,386
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#2
It's not your belief in your assurance that saves you...
it's your belief in Christ.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,417
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#3
1 Corinthians 4: KJV
1 "Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. {2} Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. {3} But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man’s judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. {4} For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. {5} Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God."

In context i believe Paul was talking about humans judging other humans.. He talks of Himself being justified.. So Paul was confident in his own salvation because He believed in the Justification of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ..
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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#4
1 Corinthians 4:4-5[4] For I am not conscious to myself of any thing, yet am I not hereby justified; but he that judgeth me, is the Lord. [5] Therefore judge not before the time; until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts; and then shall every man have praise from God.
Hebrews 6:4-6[4] For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5] Have moreover tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6] And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”[/FONT]


Acts 17:30-31, “In the past יהוה winked at such ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent! For He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness, by a Man whom He has ordained; and He has given evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

Romans 2:4-15, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that יהוה’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of יהוה’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of יהוה will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath. Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with יהוה. For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before Yah, but the doers of the Law will be justified. For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them.”

Ezekiyl 18:19-32, “And you said, ‘Why should the son not bear the crookedness of the father?’ But the son has done right-ruling and righteousness, he has guarded all My laws and he does them, he shall certainly live. The being who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the crookedness of the father, nor the father bear the crookedness of the son. The righteousness of the righteous is upon himself, and the wrongness of the wrong is upon himself. But the wrong, if he turns from all his sins which he has done, and he shall guard all My laws, and shall do right-ruling and righteousness, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. All the transgressions which he has done shall not be remembered against him – in his righteousness that he has done, he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wrong?” declares the Master יהוה. “Is it not that he should turn from his ways, and live? But when a righteous one turns away from his righteousness and does unrighteousness, according to all the abominations that the wrong one has done, shall he live? All his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered. For his trespass which he has committed, and for his sin which he has committed, for them he shall die. And you said, ‘The way of יהוה is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Yisra’ĕl, is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? When a righteous one turns away from his righteousness, and does unrighteousness, and he dies in it, it is because of his unrighteousness which he has done that he dies. And when the wrong turns away from the wrong which he has done, and he does right-ruling and righteousness, he keeps himself alive. Because he sees and turns away from all the transgressions which he has done, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. And the house of Yisra’ĕl have said, ‘The way of יהוה is not right.’ Are My ways not right, O house of Yisra’ĕl? Is it not your ways that are not right? Therefore I judge you, O house of Yisra’ĕl, every one according to his ways,” declares the Master יהוה. “Repent, and turn back from all your transgressions, and let not crookedness be a stumbling-block to you. Cast away from you all the transgressions, by which you have transgressed, and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Yisra’ĕl? For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” declares the Master יהוה. “So turn back and live!”
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
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#5
Our assurance is what is written (scripture)- if we obey what is written, we will be saved. “These things are written that you may know that you have eternal life.”
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
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#6
1 Corinthians 4: KJV
1 "Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. {2} Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. {3} But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man’s judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. {4} For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. {5} Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God."

In context i believe Paul was talking about humans judging other humans.. He talks of Himself being justified.. So Paul was confident in his own salvation because He believed in the Justification of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ..
You're absolutely right. The passage was taken out of context. This is a good reminder that context is critical when interpreting Scripture. As to the question in the title, it is God who deems us as justified or not, since He is the one who justifies (declares righteous). So FacingFaith, take some time to study the epistle to the Romans in depth. It deals with justification, sanctification, and glorification.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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#7
A person will feel the Holy Spirit Baptism within them.. it is like the weight of the whole world is lifted off your soul.. it is Amazing Grace from an Amazing GOD... it is being set free...

Yet the journey Home continues... we are to believe, Hear and do what the Lord instructs.. guided and comforted being reminded of Truth.. it is within... do not count yourself worthy or declare you have.. believe.. be Faithful.. but be patient... for a Humble Spirit will not think it as a GOD given right.. but will labour in love.. doing what their Master instructs...
 
Z

Zi

Guest
#8
Not everyone is so heavy and feels something lift. This can cause confusion. Some to doubt that if they hadn't experience like this then maybe they aren't saved. This is not in the Bible. Salvation experience is different for everyone.

It's relationship. All you place emphasis on comes natural in that setting.

More should focus on acquiring closeness rather than rules to follow.
A person will feel the Holy Spirit Baptism within them.. it is like the weight of the whole world is lifted off your soul.. it is Amazing Grace from an Amazing GOD... it is being set free...

Yet the journey Home continues... we are to believe, Hear and do what the Lord instructs.. guided and comforted being reminded of Truth.. it is within... do not count yourself worthy or declare you have.. believe.. be Faithful.. but be patient... for a Humble Spirit will not think it as a GOD given right.. but will labour in love.. doing what their Master instructs...
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#9
Not everyone is so heavy and feels something lift. This can cause confusion. Some to doubt that if they hadn't experience like this then maybe they aren't saved. This is not in the Bible. Salvation experience is different for everyone.

It's relationship. All you place emphasis on comes natural in that setting.

More should focus on acquiring closeness rather than rules to follow.

The Lord knows best and gives us instructions..

You will know if the Holy Spirit sets up camp within you..

You will find it in the Bible Zi:

28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.



my witness is being shared for GOD’s Glory.. and no one should be doubting based on each other but seek GOD for themselves through Faith in Christ.. call and He will come..


because if me sharing this makes a person doubt.. then it may be they have not received the Holy Spirit as yet.. ask and it shall be given...
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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#10
Luke 11

9And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#11
It's not your belief in your assurance that saves you...
it's your belief in Christ.
That is the point of his question, what is your assurance? Which is to say what is the substance of your hope that you are saved.

A more perfect question is what is your reward for believing in Christ? According to the scriptures it is written, "I
f in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable." [See - 1 Cor 15:19]
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#12
It's not your belief in your assurance that saves you...
it's your belief in Christ.
That is the point. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever (truly) believes on Him might have everlasting life, for God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but to save the world. He who believes in Him is not condemned,.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#13
Romans 8:16 - The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,173
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#14
I cannot judge myself, if i am saved let be by his lips that i am saved and if anything is to be said of me let be by his word that it is said. You see I am not very good at judging myself because I am far to critical
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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#15
I like what you said Blain, and understand it. At one time I was of the same mindset. Super sensitive to my own failings. And it's what Paul said, that he didn't judge himself either. But, in another place he did. So why the two?

I believe that Paul came to rest also in the revelation that he received directly from the Lord. For it seems to me that truth is first revealed, but then worked out to our experience where we live truth.

We don't put our faith in our successes, nor do we judge our own failingswith condemnation. Jesus didn't come to judge even the world, much less His brothers and sisters who trust in His righteousness. So as He shines the Light as we walk with Him, He let's us know what we need to know. Until then, we continue to enjoy His peace out of resting in heavenly realms, and then agree with His gentle revealings that He prunes from off our branch. :)

Love your witness Blain.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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#16
A person will feel the Holy Spirit Baptism within them.. it is like the weight of the whole world is lifted off your soul.. it is Amazing Grace from an Amazing GOD... it is being set free...

Yet the journey Home continues... we are to believe, Hear and do what the Lord instructs.. guided and comforted being reminded of Truth.. it is within... do not count yourself worthy or declare you have.. believe.. be Faithful.. but be patient... for a Humble Spirit will not think it as a GOD given right.. but will labour in love.. doing what their Master instructs...

Perhaps you are speaking of conversion loveme. Holy Spirit baptism is known because of the giftings. The speaking gifts will manifest such as the word of knowledge, word of wisdom, prophecy, and tongues. These are what reveals things unknown to us by human means.

The power to witness and be used in service. Then comes the miraculous gifts too. Not so much known but should accompany apostles. Though all gifts are miraculous.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,261
2,386
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#17
That is the point. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever (truly) believes on Him might have everlasting life, for God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but to save the world. He who believes in Him is not condemned,.


Clarifications On My Original Comment

I appreciate this scripture valiant posted, and I "think" I agree with the main point he was trying to make:
that Jesus died to eternally save those who believe... not to partially save us, or almost save us, or save us for a while.
We're on the same page.

My point, in my original comment, was only to say it's possible to RECEIVE CHRIST, without UNDERSTANDING EVERYTHING he does.
I realize this little point can turn into a slippery slope.
But you can certainly KNOW CHRIST without KNOWING EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM.



The Reasoning

The reason why, when people get saved, we often teach them the principles of "assurance", is because NEW BELIEVERS DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND THESE PRINCIPLES.

Now, if you have ever taught a believer about assurance, because he didn't understand... you are immediately placed into the logical paradigm that "understanding of assurance is NOT necessary for salvation."

It works like this:
1. If we teach new believers about the doctrine of assurance, because they don't fully understand it...
2. Then they must be ABLE to be saved without fully understanding it.
3. Therefore an individual may not understand assurance, or may doubt it, and yet be quite saved.
4. Therefore there ARE saved people who don't understand assurance, and "understanding" assurance is not a condition of salvation.

* If premise #1 is true, then the rest of the points naturally, and logically follow.


* If this reasoning is logical, then it would also follow that we should be gracious to those who don't understand, or who don't agree, about assurance... as this particular bit of understanding does not DETERMINE your salvation.




The Problem We Have

We clearly have a problem regarding "what exactly" and "how much exactly" you need to believe in order to be saved.
This problem isn't new or impossible to navigate.

But its still a serious issue.

This problem of "precisely how much doctrine we must believe and understand in order to receive Christ" is a very serious issue.

1. Just exactly how much do you truly need to understand about Christ to receive Christ?
2. Just exactly how much do you truly need to understand about the work of Christ to receive Christ?

This is a REAL issue.

Cults often believe in "something" they call Christ, but it isn't the biblical christ at all.
If you believe in "something" you call Christ, but it's a COMPLETELY, TOTALLY UNBIBLICAL Christ, who isn't even God incarnate... then you aren't really trusting in the real Christ at all.... so you can't possibly be saved by him.

This would be like trusting in a car to get you to the mall, then you hop on a pogo stick because think a pogo stick is a car!
This is what we find in many cults.
And the cults aren't getting to the mall.
: )

So this IS a real issue.
What you DO believe ABOUT Christ, and ABOUT salvation IS a real issue.
It's a real issue we need to think about, and understand.

So we have our dilemma:
Just PRECISELY how much, and how little, must we truly understand, to truly receive Christ?

This is where most Christians attempt to differentiate the "essentials" from the "non essentials".

Most Christians, and most denominations, do fully agree on these "essentials."
But there is still a problem.
There is a problem of an "edge."
When we define these essentials, like all definitions, they have an "edge"... a place where the definition can be stretched no further, and so it must stop... and we sometimes disagree on where precisely this "edge" must lie.

So, when we come right up to the "edge" of these essentials, we may disagree on just where precisely some of those edges are.

I understand this is important.
I understand we can agree on the "essentials", and still disagree on where precisely we find the exact edges of those essentials.
I understand this, and I'm not going to attack anyone over this.



Nonetheless, I think my section above called "The Reasoning" is simple, biblical, and logically sound.
I think it is solid.
I think it stands, and I think it speaks of some nuanced areas where we really need to be gracious.


God Bless.





 
Last edited:

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
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#18
If false assurance exist, which most will agree that it does then 100% "no if ands or buts" assurance cannot. Claims of 100% personal assurance cannot exist with the specter of flawed reasoning always present. The biblical promises of assurance are general in nature and apply to Christians as a group. This assurance should never be assumed on a personal level.
 

Lighthearted

Senior Member
Oct 17, 2016
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#19
Again, like in your other thread...this makes no sense to me...
Judge yourself by asking if you have accepted Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior. Did you believe in John 3:16 and ask Jesus to save you? If you did, then why do you need to question your salvation? It is His promise...what more assurance do you need from the Creator of the universe?