The Gross Error of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
7
please supply the scripture that defines this theology
God created a world without sin
now we have a world with sin
does it not even slightly occur to you that is not what He created? and having seen that, how about going on and understanding that He did allow it but did not rub His 'hands' together in anticipation? or curl the serpent around the tree with a smile on it's face?
understanding God knows is not the same as trying to say God made it happen
if I let my husky off the leash, I know she is going to take off
she might get hit by a car
now if I throw my husky into an oncoming car, I made her get hit
let there be light
7
okay okay. you made me do this.
A great deficit in Christian maturity is the simple fact that Christians don’t know doctrine. (not my quote but I'll run with it)
What is the doctrine of God?
A healthy relationship with God must begin with an intellectual knowledge of who He is, which then matures into a deeper personal experience of knowing God in life. God manifests Himself to us on the mountain peaks, in the valleys, in the swamps—in all aspects of our lives.
The study of the knowledge of God, just one of the many doctrinal themes in Scripture, is the greatest theme that can engage the mind of man. Nothing can even begin to parallel it in its impact on a man’s life. Undoubtedly, for this very reason, the very first words of the Bible introduce us to the reality of God as the source of the universe, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Gen. 1:1).
These, the very first words of the Bible, are most basic to the understanding of the whole. No more important words have ever been uttered or written. Compton, the physicist, calls them the most wonderful words ever written. All else in the Bible stands or falls upon the validity and truthfulness of these words. Study of the person and work of God is of inestimable importance and value for all who would know the truth. Without a proper understanding of Him and His plan, everything else in the Bible and in life becomes hazy and meaningless
SOURCE not that I even expect probably 99 out of 100 to read it, but those who have an actual grasp on God's own revelation of Himself, got there by some hard work. They studied, they were not lazy, they did not get spoon fed and above all, yes above all, they really truly and wanted to know the One who WANTS to be known by them
the above quote is just a primer. there are thousands of books written about God...some good and some not so good
we can avail ourselves of actual study and comparative study, or we can kick and scream and say we are right because someone else took the time to do the work and no matter they came up with the wrong idea (Calvin)
A great deficit in Christian maturity is the simple fact that Christians don’t know doctrine. (not my quote but I'll run with it)
What is the doctrine of God?
A healthy relationship with God must begin with an intellectual knowledge of who He is, which then matures into a deeper personal experience of knowing God in life. God manifests Himself to us on the mountain peaks, in the valleys, in the swamps—in all aspects of our lives.
The study of the knowledge of God, just one of the many doctrinal themes in Scripture, is the greatest theme that can engage the mind of man. Nothing can even begin to parallel it in its impact on a man’s life. Undoubtedly, for this very reason, the very first words of the Bible introduce us to the reality of God as the source of the universe, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Gen. 1:1).
These, the very first words of the Bible, are most basic to the understanding of the whole. No more important words have ever been uttered or written. Compton, the physicist, calls them the most wonderful words ever written. All else in the Bible stands or falls upon the validity and truthfulness of these words. Study of the person and work of God is of inestimable importance and value for all who would know the truth. Without a proper understanding of Him and His plan, everything else in the Bible and in life becomes hazy and meaningless
SOURCE not that I even expect probably 99 out of 100 to read it, but those who have an actual grasp on God's own revelation of Himself, got there by some hard work. They studied, they were not lazy, they did not get spoon fed and above all, yes above all, they really truly and wanted to know the One who WANTS to be known by them
the above quote is just a primer. there are thousands of books written about God...some good and some not so good
we can avail ourselves of actual study and comparative study, or we can kick and scream and say we are right because someone else took the time to do the work and no matter they came up with the wrong idea (Calvin)
Last edited by a moderator:
But He knew that man would sin. That was why Christ was slain before the foundation of the world. But with man it was different. Man was given freewill. Grasshoppers do not have freewill.
you are mixing man with grasshoppers. Very foolish,
Not in the case of man, but certainly in the case of grasshoppers.
But you are not God. YOU don't know what would happen, If you did then you would have foreordained it.
that is what you lack
you are mixing man with grasshoppers. Very foolish,
Not in the case of man, but certainly in the case of grasshoppers.
But you are not God. YOU don't know what would happen, If you did then you would have foreordained it.
that is what you lack
The law of cause and effect. The law of faith in respect to the unseen Spirit according to Christ’s work of faith .
If we have the faith that comes from hearing God in respect to our own selves after the imagination of our hearts we have blasphemed the Holy name by which we are drawn towards Him
If our new faith (not of ourselves) begins with His faith working in to both will and do His good purpose. The end of the matter reflects the same work of Christ making His faith that works in us complete, perfect .
It would be foolish to think salvation is dependent our fleshly intellect in any way shape or form making a good decision based on nothing.
It must be determined whose faith is doing the work of softening our hearts .That as the things of God as the Spirit gives us ears to hear what he says or that of men after the imagination of one’s own heart .
What do we have that we have not freely received from heaven and if we have received it why would we boast we have not. God makes men difernt he forms the clay. It like receiving mail in a mail box . The mail man does not wait for our decision . Do you want the good news ?..He puts it in the box just as God puts his word in our newly created heart.
.
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?(Christ's) Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith(Christ's)? Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Gal 3:1-6
Not a righteousness coming from Abraham.
It like the parable of Lazarus a stinking corpse dead for days .He had no qualifier by which he could arise , Christ had to give him ears to hear what the Spirit said . It moved him .It was not Lazarus good decision that moved Christ to say arise turning thing upside down the work moving the Potter.
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies John 11:25
No man can believe unless God first give them His faith so that they can believe .Natural man is dead in his trespasses and sin separated from God and therefore cannot hear . Christ must to the first work of giving us spiritul ears or he does none.
The verse above is showing us he was given the authority so he could believe .
If it begins with His faith working in to both will land do His good purpose the end of the mater reflects the same work of Christ making His faith complete or perfect , a imputed righteousness ,
Just as it did with Abraham in the Galatians 3:6 verse the same in James 2.Imputed faith imputed righteousness not of Abraham, but freely given to Abraham .
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, (not his works) when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Christ's faith working in Abraham by the will of Christ’s labor of love, the belief of Christ was made perfect.
Abraham did not believe his own self .
Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:21
He is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases .He does not wait for our decision. There is no are you Ok with that? If so I will soften your heart. ?
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: Job 23:16
If we have the faith that comes from hearing God in respect to our own selves after the imagination of our hearts we have blasphemed the Holy name by which we are drawn towards Him
If our new faith (not of ourselves) begins with His faith working in to both will and do His good purpose. The end of the matter reflects the same work of Christ making His faith that works in us complete, perfect .
It would be foolish to think salvation is dependent our fleshly intellect in any way shape or form making a good decision based on nothing.
It must be determined whose faith is doing the work of softening our hearts .That as the things of God as the Spirit gives us ears to hear what he says or that of men after the imagination of one’s own heart .
What do we have that we have not freely received from heaven and if we have received it why would we boast we have not. God makes men difernt he forms the clay. It like receiving mail in a mail box . The mail man does not wait for our decision . Do you want the good news ?..He puts it in the box just as God puts his word in our newly created heart.
.
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?(Christ's) Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith(Christ's)? Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Gal 3:1-6
Not a righteousness coming from Abraham.
It like the parable of Lazarus a stinking corpse dead for days .He had no qualifier by which he could arise , Christ had to give him ears to hear what the Spirit said . It moved him .It was not Lazarus good decision that moved Christ to say arise turning thing upside down the work moving the Potter.
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies John 11:25
No man can believe unless God first give them His faith so that they can believe .Natural man is dead in his trespasses and sin separated from God and therefore cannot hear . Christ must to the first work of giving us spiritul ears or he does none.
The verse above is showing us he was given the authority so he could believe .
If it begins with His faith working in to both will land do His good purpose the end of the mater reflects the same work of Christ making His faith complete or perfect , a imputed righteousness ,
Just as it did with Abraham in the Galatians 3:6 verse the same in James 2.Imputed faith imputed righteousness not of Abraham, but freely given to Abraham .
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, (not his works) when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Christ's faith working in Abraham by the will of Christ’s labor of love, the belief of Christ was made perfect.
Abraham did not believe his own self .
Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:21
He is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases .He does not wait for our decision. There is no are you Ok with that? If so I will soften your heart. ?
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: Job 23:16
7
you seem to have a gift for stating water is wet, but it does take other forms
I'm sorry, but i truly do not have the patience to trade insults
I gave 2 illustrations...you decided I am being something that I am not. not at all
this is on you, not me.
stating I am not God accomplishes what exactly? huh? you are not God either.
7
what are you on about?
I was specific in what I posted regarding salvation.
and by the way, Abraham was not justified by works anymore than we are now.
see, what you are doing is picking and choosing disjointed verses to make a doctrine that does not exist and Abraham was never our father in the physical sense. I have no clue why you would choose to use this for an example of Calvinism
I already 'splained 'bout dat.
that should probably get another volley going
I was specific in what I posted regarding salvation.
and by the way, Abraham was not justified by works anymore than we are now.
see, what you are doing is picking and choosing disjointed verses to make a doctrine that does not exist and Abraham was never our father in the physical sense. I have no clue why you would choose to use this for an example of Calvinism
I already 'splained 'bout dat.
that should probably get another volley going
7
are you aware of the exchange when the commandments were given?
do you not understand that ANY covenant requires TWO parties?
have you skipped over the parts in the Bible where God had conversations with people, gave them choices and reasoned with them?
see, this is another example of what I mean when I say that you have to know the doctrine of God
you have to know what He says about Himself, His character and His dealings with mankind
otherwise you end up in error that leads to more...error
Job did not know God as He has been revealed to us through Jesus.
do you not understand that ANY covenant requires TWO parties?
have you skipped over the parts in the Bible where God had conversations with people, gave them choices and reasoned with them?
see, this is another example of what I mean when I say that you have to know the doctrine of God
you have to know what He says about Himself, His character and His dealings with mankind
otherwise you end up in error that leads to more...error
Job did not know God as He has been revealed to us through Jesus.
D
Not really. I'd rather use the time to study the Bible. I'm more into commentators. That, and frankly, he's above my thinking level -- which, for the record, is why most Calvinists don't read Calvin, and also why we really would prefer to be called Reformed.
Why? Have you read Arminius? Because, I really don't assume you read everything, or even anything, by him either.
Why? Have you read Arminius? Because, I really don't assume you read everything, or even anything, by him either.
