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Thread: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

  1. #41
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    efficacious atonement is limited to all who believe
    Of course. But to BLATANTLY DENY that Christ died for the sins of the whole world is heresy.

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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    why was atonement made for all Israel? why not the Hittites or the Amorites?

    you didn't really answer my questions as to Christ's atonement, but never mind.
    Atonement made for Rahab and as a result she was placed into the lineage of Jesus Christ, mentioned as one having faith in Hebrews and justified by her works in James

    Matthew 1:5
    Hebrews 11:31
    James 2:25

    Shall we talk about Ruth as well?
    Nehemiah6 and 7seasrekeyed like this.

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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    “Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.”


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    “Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.”
    Then those who slayed Him are in heaven.
    "What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies."

    Thomas Cranmer

    "A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats."

    Charles Spurgeon

    “The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, heaven without hell.”

    William Booth

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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    efficacious atonement is limited to all who believe
    That's true.

    The question is, who believes?

    Those who God has decided beforehand shall believe, or those who choose to believe of their own free will?

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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by shrume View Post
    That's true.

    The question is, who believes?

    Those who God has decided beforehand shall believe, or those who choose to believe of their own free will?
    The better term is free choice and not free will.

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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Then those who slayed Him are in heaven.
    If they repented and believed, yes, they are covered by the blood of Christ


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by beastslayer1970 View Post
    The better term is free choice and not free will.
    I prefer the term "self will." Self will opposes the will of God in the natural man.
    beastslayer1970 likes this.


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    If they repented and believed, yes, they are covered by the blood of Christ
    No. He said, "Father, forgive them." So, by going by your first post, the Christ asked the Father to forgive them, so they are in heaven.

    Just following your logic.

    Unless the Father did not forgive them even though He said to?

    Which is it?
    "What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies."

    Thomas Cranmer

    "A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats."

    Charles Spurgeon

    “The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, heaven without hell.”

    William Booth

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by shrume View Post
    The question is, who believes? Those who God has decided beforehand shall believe, or those who choose to believe of their own free will?
    If indeed God were "deciding beforehand" as to who would believe, then He would decide that every human being would believe. Why? (1) Because Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world and (2) God will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    So what do we actually see in Scripture? Acts chapter 2 gives us an excellent insight into how sinners get saved.

    THE GOSPEL PREACHED
    Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    SINNERS CONVICTED AND CONVINCED
    Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?


    SINNERS COMMANDED TO REPENT AND BELIEVE
    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


    SINNERS GLADLY RECEIVED THE WORD AND WERE SAVED
    Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

    Do we see anything about "God deciding" or do we see people responding to the Gospel, having been convicted and convinced about their need to repent and believe? We have no business going beyond what Scripture reveals.
    Last edited by Nehemiah6; November 7th, 2017 at 03:09 PM.

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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    After seeing all the Scripture which refute and repudiate limited atonement, is the the best you can come up with? Are you actually denying that sinners must repent and believe the Gospel in order to be saved? If so, you are in opposition to the true Gospel and the Bible.

    Just forget about the "Arminian view" and show us the Scriptures which support the false doctrine of limited atonement and that no one needs to obey the Gospel.
    That wont work.
    They'll just do the usual switcheroo and say "of course all men must obey bla bla bla" but then they flip the switch and say no one can obey unless God obeys for them.
    So they want you to throw out most bible verses in favor of the few they misinterpret. Then the story is those who do obey the gospel did so because God programmed them to do so.
    He didnt program the rest that way because He gets glory for making certain folks destined for hell. OOPS that double predestination which most wont admit to, so i just gotta say "He chose some, but not all, He would be just in letting everyone go to hell, after all, everyone is a sinner because God predestined them to be that way" hurr durr.
    Nehemiah6 likes this.

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    Senior Member trofimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    No. He said, "Father, forgive them." So, by going by your first post, the Christ asked the Father to forgive them, so they are in heaven.

    Just following your logic.

    Unless the Father did not forgive them even though He said to?

    Which is it?
    Is it not possible that they are in heaven? I believe that Christ, fully God, was so exceptional, that everything is possible. Even some old testament saints were resurrected in those times (and we know nothing of what happen with them afterwards)... strange events were happening.
    Do not be worried about many things - only one thing is needed (Lk 10:41-42).

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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    I prefer the term "self will." Self will opposes the will of God in the natural man.
    Not a divider for sure.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    No. He said, "Father, forgive them." So, by going by your first post, the Christ asked the Father to forgive them, so they are in heaven.

    Just following your logic.

    Unless the Father did not forgive them even though He said to?

    Which is it?
    I find it disturbing that you fail to acknowledge the necessity of repentance and belief Such an omission also translates into a shocking lack of logic, as well as a failure to build doctrine line by line, precept upon precept.
    7seasrekeyed likes this.


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

  15. #55
    Senior Member peacefulbeliever's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    then the question becomes, what was the atonement? did what Christ did actually accomplish anything?
    was atonement for sin made? were sins paid for? and whose?

    if it was a real atonement, sins were paid for, so if Christ died for all men without exception, all men's sins were paid for and no one should be in hell, right?
    Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind . . . Jesus atoned for all sins and ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So Christ died for all men w/o exception but the atonement is applicable only to those "all" who repent and believe in the only begotten Son of God.
    BenFTW, Magenta, Nehemiah6 and 1 others like this.
    Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. Psalm 51:2
    Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad. Pro. 12:25
    Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Ps. 19:14
    The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Ps. 33:11
    We learn to walk spiritually the same way we learn to walk physically-by walking.

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by peacefulbeliever View Post
    Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind . . . Jesus atoned for all sins and ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So Christ died for all men w/o exception but the atonement is applicable only to those "all" who repent and believe in the only begotten Son of God.
    So people are in hell, but their sins have been paid for. Interesting.
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


  17. #57
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Then those who slayed Him are in heaven.
    Slayed? or slew. In either case they were forgiven of His murder.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by beastslayer1970 View Post
    Not a divider for sure.
    I do not understand what you mean by this; could you please clarify? Thank you

    PS: welcome to CC! I hope you enjoy your time with us

    notmyown and beastslayer1970 like this.


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

  19. #59
    Senior Member peacefulbeliever's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    So people are in hell, but their sins have been paid for. Interesting.
    Nope, those who do not believe are condemned - their sins were paid for but they chose not to accept the gift of salvation offered them. All throughout scripture anyone can read that unless one believes in the only begotten Son of God and the works accomplished by him and through him - they are condemned. Jesus Christ gave his life to redeem the effect of the fall of Adam upon all mankind, to make reconciliation to God available - and that reconciliation comes only through or by Jesus Christ. "through" or "by" Jesus Christ, i.e. faith (belief) in Jesus Christ.

    But these are written, that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you might have life through his name. John 20:31

    He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36

    Magenta likes this.
    Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. Psalm 51:2
    Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad. Pro. 12:25
    Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Ps. 19:14
    The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Ps. 33:11
    We learn to walk spiritually the same way we learn to walk physically-by walking.

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    So people are in hell, but their sins have been paid for. Interesting.
    He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:16)
    Magenta and beastslayer1970 like this.

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