The Gross Error of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
How would you know how a Calvinist reads anything, all anyone has to do is read it in it's context and it speaks opf itself. Verse 3 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God....5 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Now those that are born again, can see the kingdom of God and will enter as well. Staying with the context of the storyline. Nicodemus is not born again yet.
“9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?”10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony.12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,15that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.”
Nicodemus is not there yet and a read of all the Scripture that speak of Nicodemus, it never says that he was a believer in Jesus. Yes it calls him a disciple, but disciples left Christ all the time and some Christ called the devil their father.
“So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples,32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”33 They answered him, “We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say, ‘You will become free’?”
34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever.36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.37 I know that you are offspring of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you.38 I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.”
So now in the context that Nicodemus is not a believer, we go on to verse 16-17, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”
Knowing that whoever understands the principles of the kingdom of God are born again. We see that God so loved the world, how does He love the world? He gave His only Son to demonstrate His love for the world, and whoever believes in His only Son will have everlasting life. Because they have been born again by the Spirit to understand/see the kingdom of God. The world does not receive everlasting life, only those that believe/see or those that have been born again to understand/see the kingdom. Paul give us a deeper understand of John 3:16 in, Romans 5:8 “but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
N6 you highlighted or made bold, "the world" to make it seem as though the Son came to save the world, but you negelected to point of the key word, "might" be saved. To truely understand why the word "might" was used we need to go further into the context of verses 18-20 and 21 to see how those that believe, believed.
John 3:18-21 “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
Whoever in the world does not believe is condemned already, they love their wicked darkness, rather then the light (Son) and they do not come to the light (Son) because they hate the light (Son) or as Paul says in Romans 8:7-8 “For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
But whoever does come to the light (Son), they do it so that it may be seen that his works were done by God or that they believe because they are born again by the Father as Peter tells us in I Peter 1:1-3
“To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,”
The Father causes us to be born again and He grants it to use as well and He does it by His foreknowledge, which is not Him looking into the future. It is a realational knowing, in the same way Adam knew his wife and intimate relationship and the Spirit is involved in this giving of life or being born again John 6:63, 65 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life…..65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
I an NO Calvinist, but I believe in the Biblical Doctrines of Grace and I do not read John 3:16-17 in this way, For God so loved the ELECT, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the ELECT; but that the ELECT through him might be saved.
This is the way that people that do not understand the Biblical Doctrines of Grace, misrepresent those that do, as to how they read these verses, which is dishonest. We actually read God's word the way it is written, if the apostle or the prophet is using the word we, our, us or we all, we read it as he is including himself with those that are like him or believers in God/Christ. We understand that an apostle or a prophet is a believer in the Lord and by using us, we, our(s)elf or we all they are associating with other believers or the children of Israel, not the world or sinners. If they are speaking of the world or sinners, they use the word they('re), them(self), those, thier basic pronouns to associate or disassociate.
Please do not take this as talking down to anyone, it is simply stating how I/we read the Word of God or any other work of literature. It should be the way everyone should read this way. Like they, "believe what you rear, not reading what you believe" it is the way everyone should read the Bible, in it's context. I have said it before, it is a shame that pastors preach or teach the Bible out of context, because it is teaching their members to read the Bible in the same way. When the Bible was not written in that way, it is written with a storyline that is to be followed contextually and with the cultural backround. Like Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
The cultural backround here is if someone slaps you on your right cheek they used their left hand and in the Jewish culture, they used their left hand to clean themselves after a bowel movement. This is the highest form of disrespect in the Jewish culture, then by turning the other cheek, you are offering them the chance to slap you with the backhand of the left hand, which is an even higher forum of resrepect or weakness on your side.
N6 you highlighted or made bold, "the world" to make it seem as though the Son came to save the world, but you negelected to point of the key word, "might" be saved. To truely understand why the word "might" was used we need to go further into the context of verses 18-20 and 21 to see how those that believe, believed.
John 3:18-21 “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
Whoever in the world does not believe is condemned already, they love their wicked darkness, rather then the light (Son) and they do not come to the light (Son) because they hate the light (Son) or as Paul says in Romans 8:7-8 “For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
But whoever does come to the light (Son), they do it so that it may be seen that his works were done by God or that they believe because they are born again by the Father as Peter tells us in I Peter 1:1-3
“To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,”
The Father causes us to be born again and He grants it to use as well and He does it by His foreknowledge, which is not Him looking into the future. It is a realational knowing, in the same way Adam knew his wife and intimate relationship and the Spirit is involved in this giving of life or being born again John 6:63, 65 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life…..65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
I an NO Calvinist, but I believe in the Biblical Doctrines of Grace and I do not read John 3:16-17 in this way, For God so loved the ELECT, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the ELECT; but that the ELECT through him might be saved.
This is the way that people that do not understand the Biblical Doctrines of Grace, misrepresent those that do, as to how they read these verses, which is dishonest. We actually read God's word the way it is written, if the apostle or the prophet is using the word we, our, us or we all, we read it as he is including himself with those that are like him or believers in God/Christ. We understand that an apostle or a prophet is a believer in the Lord and by using us, we, our(s)elf or we all they are associating with other believers or the children of Israel, not the world or sinners. If they are speaking of the world or sinners, they use the word they('re), them(self), those, thier basic pronouns to associate or disassociate.
Please do not take this as talking down to anyone, it is simply stating how I/we read the Word of God or any other work of literature. It should be the way everyone should read this way. Like they, "believe what you rear, not reading what you believe" it is the way everyone should read the Bible, in it's context. I have said it before, it is a shame that pastors preach or teach the Bible out of context, because it is teaching their members to read the Bible in the same way. When the Bible was not written in that way, it is written with a storyline that is to be followed contextually and with the cultural backround. Like Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
The cultural backround here is if someone slaps you on your right cheek they used their left hand and in the Jewish culture, they used their left hand to clean themselves after a bowel movement. This is the highest form of disrespect in the Jewish culture, then by turning the other cheek, you are offering them the chance to slap you with the backhand of the left hand, which is an even higher forum of resrepect or weakness on your side.
This is very simplistic. No calvinist has a problem with John 3:16.
whosoever believeth in Him will have eternal life yes and will not perish.
How is this supposed to refute reformed theology?
The word "whosoever"? Whosoever will? The keyword being will? Who does will? The one dead in his sins or the one regenerated by God.
Im not an expert by no means but you could have googled the answer from calvinist corner to john 3:16 within a couple of seconds.
whosoever believeth in Him will have eternal life yes and will not perish.
How is this supposed to refute reformed theology?
The word "whosoever"? Whosoever will? The keyword being will? Who does will? The one dead in his sins or the one regenerated by God.
Im not an expert by no means but you could have googled the answer from calvinist corner to john 3:16 within a couple of seconds.
Hello Roger,
it is written all over the NT. I do not have to be there to know. Were you there when the flood destroyed the world of the ungodly?
yet you believe it correct?
reading through the book of Acts we can see the teaching everywhere, such as;
24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
it is written all over the NT. I do not have to be there to know. Were you there when the flood destroyed the world of the ungodly?
yet you believe it correct?
reading through the book of Acts we can see the teaching everywhere, such as;
24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
It is not simplisitic at all, and goes to the heart of Calvinistic error. Actually every Calvinist has a problem with John 3:16, because your doctrine EXCLUDES the world and talks only about the elect. You doctrine says that Christ died only for the elect, not for humanity. Here it is:
V. The Lord Jesus, by His perfect obedience, and sacrifice of Himself, which He through the eternal Spirit, once offered up unto God, has fully satisfied the justice of His Father; and purchased, not only reconciliation, but an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven, for those whom the Father has given unto Him. (Westminster Confession, Chapter 8, Section V).
That effectively excludes John 3:16, and contradicts the words of Christ.
As to "whosoever" it should be obvious that it refers to anyone and everyone in the world, and focusing on "will" is simply a red herring to avoid the truth that the world might be saved (if all would obey the Gospel).
V. The Lord Jesus, by His perfect obedience, and sacrifice of Himself, which He through the eternal Spirit, once offered up unto God, has fully satisfied the justice of His Father; and purchased, not only reconciliation, but an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven, for those whom the Father has given unto Him. (Westminster Confession, Chapter 8, Section V).
That effectively excludes John 3:16, and contradicts the words of Christ.
As to "whosoever" it should be obvious that it refers to anyone and everyone in the world, and focusing on "will" is simply a red herring to avoid the truth that the world might be saved (if all would obey the Gospel).
Last edited:
Wrong again;
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Salvation is worldwide....
And of course Jn 3 actually says everyone believing...all the believing ones ...the word whosoever is not in the text.
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Salvation is worldwide....
And of course Jn 3 actually says everyone believing...all the believing ones ...the word whosoever is not in the text.
"Everyone believing" or "everyone who believes" (Holman's) is equivalent to "whosoever believeth" (KJV) (or as some have it "whoever believes" (NIV). That is why all these phrases are found in various Bibles.
But the Scripture does NOT say "everyone of THE ELECT believing", and that is what Calvinists try to make it appear. The "everyone" is related to the world of humanity, so what it means is that anyone and everyone from out of the whole world of humanity who believes.
So that continues to be a problem for the Calvinist, who has already shut out the majority from salvation, because God DECREED the majority for damnation.
Chapter 3. III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death. (Westminster Confession)
But the Scripture does NOT say "everyone of THE ELECT believing", and that is what Calvinists try to make it appear. The "everyone" is related to the world of humanity, so what it means is that anyone and everyone from out of the whole world of humanity who believes.
So that continues to be a problem for the Calvinist, who has already shut out the majority from salvation, because God DECREED the majority for damnation.
Chapter 3. III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death. (Westminster Confession)
Last edited:
Nehemiah6
Hello N6
It actually speaks of all those who are believing and continuing to believe...every believing one who continues on in that condidtion...N6...it does not even disturb me if it did say...whosoever will believe...because the natural man cannot unless God allows him to believe.
.
N6...we preach to all men without exception...we do not know WHO God elected....That is God's buisness...However we do know that God has elected a multitude who will be enabled by God to believe..
Can we look at Jn 3:16 the way you like to present it...let's ignore the greek text for a minute...
16 [FONT="]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,...........but have everlasting life.[/FONT]
N6...simply ask yourself what about whosoever will not believe????
So we have 2 groups....whosoever will, whosoever will not......
N6...can you guess who the elect are??? T
[FONT="]Chapter 3. III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels [/FONT][FONT="]are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death. [/FONT][FONT="](Westminster Confession)[/FONT][/QUOTE]
here will be no non elect person in heaven. That is why calvinists understand that anyone who believes is elect of God...do you see what I am saying or do I need to try again to clarify this....they are not elect because calvinists say so, but because God has chosen them to salvation...
Only those chosen will believe savingly.
As far as I am concerned every person I come into contact with could be one whom God is calling by His word and Spirit.
I do not understand why you would object to this rightly understood.
I agree...but notice we both "limit it" to those who believe as the texts teaches...
,
This is no problem for any biblical calvinist at all as you can see.
Salvation is of the Lord as per Jonah, correct?
lets see what you misunderstand from this COF...
N6...With all due respect...do you believe all men go to heaven, or do you believe multitudes also go to hell???
let me provide from the 1689 to clarify what is called preterition...or those who are passed by;
[h=2]Chapter 3: Of God's Decree[/h][FONT="]1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.[/FONT]
[FONT="]( [/FONT]Isaiah 46:10; [FONT="][/FONT]Ephesians 1:11; [FONT="][/FONT]Hebrews 6:17; [FONT="][/FONT]Romans 9:15, 18; [FONT="][/FONT]James 1:13; [FONT="][/FONT]1 John 1:5; [FONT="][/FONT]Acts 4:27, 28; [FONT="][/FONT]John 19:11; [FONT="][/FONT]Numbers 23:19; [FONT="][/FONT]Ephesians 1:3-5[FONT="] )[/FONT][FONT="]2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )[/FONT]
[FONT="]3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )[/FONT]
[FONT="]4.______These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )[/FONT]
[FONT="]5._____ Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 )[/FONT]
[FONT="]6._____ As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so he hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto; wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation; neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.
( 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 10; Romans 8:30; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:5; John 10:26; John 17:9; John 6:64 )[/FONT]
[FONT="]7._____ The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.
( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )[/FONT]
Hello N6
It actually speaks of all those who are believing and continuing to believe...every believing one who continues on in that condidtion...N6...it does not even disturb me if it did say...whosoever will believe...because the natural man cannot unless God allows him to believe.
.
N6...we preach to all men without exception...we do not know WHO God elected....That is God's buisness...However we do know that God has elected a multitude who will be enabled by God to believe..
Can we look at Jn 3:16 the way you like to present it...let's ignore the greek text for a minute...
16 [FONT="]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,...........but have everlasting life.[/FONT]
N6...simply ask yourself what about whosoever will not believe????
So we have 2 groups....whosoever will, whosoever will not......
N6...can you guess who the elect are??? T
[FONT="]Chapter 3. III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels [/FONT][FONT="]are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death. [/FONT][FONT="](Westminster Confession)[/FONT][/QUOTE]
here will be no non elect person in heaven. That is why calvinists understand that anyone who believes is elect of God...do you see what I am saying or do I need to try again to clarify this....they are not elect because calvinists say so, but because God has chosen them to salvation...
Only those chosen will believe savingly.
As far as I am concerned every person I come into contact with could be one whom God is calling by His word and Spirit.
I do not understand why you would object to this rightly understood.
I agree...but notice we both "limit it" to those who believe as the texts teaches...
,
This is no problem for any biblical calvinist at all as you can see.
Salvation is of the Lord as per Jonah, correct?
lets see what you misunderstand from this COF...
N6...With all due respect...do you believe all men go to heaven, or do you believe multitudes also go to hell???
let me provide from the 1689 to clarify what is called preterition...or those who are passed by;
[h=2]Chapter 3: Of God's Decree[/h][FONT="]1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.[/FONT]
[FONT="]( [/FONT]Isaiah 46:10; [FONT="][/FONT]Ephesians 1:11; [FONT="][/FONT]Hebrews 6:17; [FONT="][/FONT]Romans 9:15, 18; [FONT="][/FONT]James 1:13; [FONT="][/FONT]1 John 1:5; [FONT="][/FONT]Acts 4:27, 28; [FONT="][/FONT]John 19:11; [FONT="][/FONT]Numbers 23:19; [FONT="][/FONT]Ephesians 1:3-5[FONT="] )[/FONT][FONT="]2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )[/FONT]
[FONT="]3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )[/FONT]
[FONT="]4.______These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )[/FONT]
[FONT="]5._____ Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 )[/FONT]
[FONT="]6._____ As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so he hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto; wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation; neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.
( 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 10; Romans 8:30; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:5; John 10:26; John 17:9; John 6:64 )[/FONT]
[FONT="]7._____ The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.
( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )[/FONT]
I see that a little differently.
Calvin is dead. There is no problem to those who have been elected to do the good will of God (Emanuel, God with us,working in us) ) as he works in them .Imputed righteousness.
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, "work out" your own salvation with fear and trembling.For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Phi 2:12
Some murmur as if what they have freely received, it was of their ownself. As new creatures we do have the treasure of that authority in these earthen bodies of death but it is not of us , if it is of God.
For whosoever it is that is freely given the faith of God needed to believe God . the same are of the many the father gave the son ,In that way as many as he draws will come. Those who do come, will. He will in no wise cast out those elected to come.
The same whosoever that have been given the new faith to come in John 3:16, they will. They walk by faith and not by sight as those who received Him not.
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. oh 1:11