Can a Person get to Heaven if They are not Holy According to God’s Standard?
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AAANNNNNDDDDDD that was the point....the "big 10" proves guilt and point ALL to JESUS........and to the OP....the only way anyone makes it is if they have had the righteousness of Christ imputed by faith........JESUS is the true and living way, the door of the sheep, the bread of heaven, the resurrection and the life, the good shepherd and the ONLY MEDIATOR between GOD and MEN.
No, a person can't get to Heaven if they are not holy according to God's Standard, Their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur KJVRevelation21:8 8. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.
The discussion topic of perfection in the chat led me to the this (renewed) revelation in particular with illumination in the study of the word "perfect" relative to the various places it can be found.
In Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect." where I noticed that Jesus is conspicuously missing from this equation causing me to wonder, why should the text not read, 'be ye perfect as Jesus is perfect?' , for example.
Then after looking up the definition of the word found as "telos" in the Greek, it came to suspect where else this might be found and I was not disappointed. In John 19:30, "When Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished." And bowing His head, He yielded up His spirit."
What does a mediator do but help two parties come to an agreement. Father is on that side of Jesus, looking at Jesus as acceptable on His behalf, as we should be on this side looking as Jesus as an offering on our behalf. And we should be saying, "Done," just as Father says, "Done."
Hopefully, this helps "telos" the matter.
Note: The congugation of 'telos' is distinguished from the Greek term used in Rev 6:17 and Rev 21:6, 'gegonan' but also translated as "It is finished."
In Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect." where I noticed that Jesus is conspicuously missing from this equation causing me to wonder, why should the text not read, 'be ye perfect as Jesus is perfect?' , for example.
Then after looking up the definition of the word found as "telos" in the Greek, it came to suspect where else this might be found and I was not disappointed. In John 19:30, "When Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished." And bowing His head, He yielded up His spirit."
What does a mediator do but help two parties come to an agreement. Father is on that side of Jesus, looking at Jesus as acceptable on His behalf, as we should be on this side looking as Jesus as an offering on our behalf. And we should be saying, "Done," just as Father says, "Done."
Hopefully, this helps "telos" the matter.
Note: The congugation of 'telos' is distinguished from the Greek term used in Rev 6:17 and Rev 21:6, 'gegonan' but also translated as "It is finished."
what ? not even with His Holy Spirit ?
doesn't show much 'belief and confidence in God !
reason we can't fully do it YET is because we are IN TRANSITION...being changed...coming out of the human state and moving on to the divine...all takes time to 'grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...but press on toward holiness and perfection...in HIS Spirit !
doesn't show much 'belief and confidence in God !
reason we can't fully do it YET is because we are IN TRANSITION...being changed...coming out of the human state and moving on to the divine...all takes time to 'grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...but press on toward holiness and perfection...in HIS Spirit !
True. But we need to step back a little. The sinner who truly repents and receives Christ as Lord and Savior is translated out of the Kingdom of Darkness and into the Kingdom of Light in this manner, thus a sinner becomes a saint:
["He" is used generically since this applies to men and women, boys and girls]
- He experiences the supernatural New Birth -- the washing of regeneration and the renewing by the Holy Ghost
- All His sins are forgiven, and his guilt is removed by the precious blood of Christ -- his soul is cleansed and his spirit is quickened
- He is declared as righteous as Christ, because he is justified by grace through faith, and Christ's righteousness is imputed to Him
- He is declared holy (or sanctified) because he receives the gift of the Holy Spirit, who indwells his spirit
- He is declared a child of God by God's grace
- Christ (and the Godhead) comes to indwell the saint and he is "sealed" by the Holy Spirit
["He" is used generically since this applies to men and women, boys and girls]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:7-14, "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you: For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. For what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, would give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, would give him a serpent? If you then, being sinful, know how to give righteous gifts to your children, how much more will your Father Who is in heaven give righteous gifts to those who ask Him? Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is (the intent) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."[/FONT]
AMEN....I, as well as a few others in this thread have made known more than a handful of times that when JESUS said it is finished, he was in fact saying paid in full, the sin debt of humanity has been satisfied and paid in full.....DONE.......many take the word perfect and equate it to our modern usage of the word and miss the point entirely....and teach something the bible does not teach.....a form of sinless perfectionism that is not found in scripture.
not even. u dont keep the sabbath. as much as u make noise about it, u dont keep the sabbath which is one of the commandments.
u just think u do because u are a "have ye not read sabbatarian". most sabbath cultists dont actually know what it is to keep the sabbath so they wrest the scriptures to make it seem like they are keeping it. just like the pharisees did in Jesus' day.
what all is included in keeping the sabbath:
-making sure no one in ur city gates works (u dont do that, im sure u got people working all around u Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: )
-not making a fire (have fun during winter Exodus 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.)
-sacrificing animals (u obviously dont do that Num 28:9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: Num 28:10 This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering. )
and there are more things to observe during the sabbath.
therefore u have lost ur salvation a long time ago according to your own false gospel and false belief system, ur own words damn everyone on this planet to hell. maybe it would be best to embrace the Gospel of Jesus Christ and join the new covenant?
u just think u do because u are a "have ye not read sabbatarian". most sabbath cultists dont actually know what it is to keep the sabbath so they wrest the scriptures to make it seem like they are keeping it. just like the pharisees did in Jesus' day.
what all is included in keeping the sabbath:
-making sure no one in ur city gates works (u dont do that, im sure u got people working all around u Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: )
-not making a fire (have fun during winter Exodus 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.)
-sacrificing animals (u obviously dont do that Num 28:9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: Num 28:10 This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering. )
and there are more things to observe during the sabbath.
therefore u have lost ur salvation a long time ago according to your own false gospel and false belief system, ur own words damn everyone on this planet to hell. maybe it would be best to embrace the Gospel of Jesus Christ and join the new covenant?
What about those who judge someone else’s servant? (Rom. 14:4) I've noticed that a lot of folks who worship on one particular day as opposed to another are very quick to pronounce judgement on others. I would recommend that they read the following two bible passages:
Why is it that some who worship on a particular day are so quick to pass judgement on others? It makes me wonder whether their church advocates passing judgment on other. Or perhaps their church has simply chosen to ignore the two bible passages above.
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5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. (Romans 14: 5-6; see 1-4)
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? (Matt. 7:1-3)
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. (Romans 14: 5-6; see 1-4)
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? (Matt. 7:1-3)
Why is it that some who worship on a particular day are so quick to pass judgement on others? It makes me wonder whether their church advocates passing judgment on other. Or perhaps their church has simply chosen to ignore the two bible passages above.
This is not the case. The reason the sabbath-keepers are always getting "attacked" is because they are the ones who say you are sinning if you do not keep the sabbath. Some even go so far as to say you cannot be saved if you do not keep the sabbath, and that not keeping it is the mark of the beast.
We are not saying you are sinning for keeping the sabbath, it is a freedom of choice indeed, one values another day over another.
The problem is the false Gospel of "keep the sabbath and thou shalt be saved". This is the difference.
We are not saying you are sinning for keeping the sabbath, it is a freedom of choice indeed, one values another day over another.
The problem is the false Gospel of "keep the sabbath and thou shalt be saved". This is the difference.
I was not talking about whether you should keep the Sabbath or not. You should. To be more clear: I'm speaking about people who worship on Saturday and claim that those who choose to worship on Sunday are sinning by not keeping the Sabbath.
I suspect you know who I'm talking about. It seems to me that their church ignores the two bible passages I quoted above from Matthew 7 and Romans 14.
Instead of worrying about Saturday vs. Sunday, perhaps they should consider the question: Is it okay to judge someone else’s servant? (Matt. 14:4)
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Edit: Gotta go! Work to do!
I suspect you know who I'm talking about. It seems to me that their church ignores the two bible passages I quoted above from Matthew 7 and Romans 14.
Instead of worrying about Saturday vs. Sunday, perhaps they should consider the question: Is it okay to judge someone else’s servant? (Matt. 14:4)
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Edit: Gotta go! Work to do!
Total truth here and thanks for posting it.
We are not perfect or sinless after believing in what Jesus did and receiving his gift of imputed righteousness. Our condition has changed from sinner to righteous saint and only through the free gift of HIS gifts of salvation and righteousness.
What you have described in your post is the nearly to good to be true part of the Gospel found in Romans 5 & 6 and Gal 2:15-21, 2 Cor 5 and Phil 3.
Thanks.
We are not perfect or sinless after believing in what Jesus did and receiving his gift of imputed righteousness. Our condition has changed from sinner to righteous saint and only through the free gift of HIS gifts of salvation and righteousness.
What you have described in your post is the nearly to good to be true part of the Gospel found in Romans 5 & 6 and Gal 2:15-21, 2 Cor 5 and Phil 3.
Thanks.