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Thread: Paul exposes false application of the law

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    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    That is really not what Paul was teaching in 1 Timothy. Please note carefully what he says in verse 5.

    King James Bible

    Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and
    of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

    In plain modern English, what Paul is saying is that the end-result or goal of the commandment is agape love (called charity) out of a pure heart (one which has been born again), and of a good conscience (having repented of one s sins) and of genuine faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption.

    So lets look at *the end of the commandment* and whether it means who you have mistakenly suggested, or whether it means something else altogether.

    Strong's Concordance
    telos: an end, a toll
    Original Word: τέλος, ους, τό
    Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
    Transliteration: telos
    Phonetic Spelling: (tel'-os)
    Short Definition: an end, purpose, tax
    Definition: (a) an end, (b) event or issue, (c) the principal end, aim, purpose, (d) a tax.HELPS Word-studies
    5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.
    [This root (tel-) means "reaching the end (aim)." It is well-illustrated with the old pirate's telescope, unfolding (extending out) one stage at a time to function at full-strength (capacity effectiveness).]

    Thayer's Greek Lexicon

    STRONGS NT 5056: τέλος

    τέλος, τέλους, τό (cf. Curtius, § 238), from Homerdown, the Sept. mostly for קֵץ;

    d. the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose: 1 Timothy 1:5 (often so in philos. from Plato, de rep. 6, p. 494 a. down; cf. Fritzsche on Romans, ii., p. 378).

    So in other words, the purpose of the Law (the Ten Commandments) is to display the agape love of God to God and to others. So the Law is indeed for true Christians, worked out by the power of the Holy Spirit through faith and love.
    You have it backwards. Jesus said it is in LOVE that the law is fulfilled. He never said it is in the law that love is fulfilled. I doubt paul would contradict jesus.


    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Paul also says this;

    Romans 2:13, “For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.”



    Galatians 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”



    ◄ Romans 2:13 ►





    New International Version
    For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.


    New Living Translation
    For merely listening to the law doesn't make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.


    English Standard Version
    For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.


    Berean Study Bible
    For it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the Law who will be declared righteous.


    Berean Literal Bible
    for not the hearers of the Law are righteous with God; but the doers of the Law will be justified.


    New American Standard Bible
    for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.


    King James Bible
    (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    For the hearers of the law are not righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous.



    International Standard Version
    For it is not merely those who hear the Law who are righteous in God's sight. No, it is those who follow the Law, who will be justified.


    Romans 7:12-14, “So that the Law truly is holy, and the command holy, and righteous, and good. Therefore, has that which is good become death to me? Let it not be! But the sin, that sin might be manifest, was working death in me through what is good, so that sin through the command might become an exceedingly great sinner. For we know that the Law is Spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin."


    2 Corinthians 3:7-8, “But if the administering of death in letters, engraved on stones, was esteemed, so that the children of Yisra’yl were unable to look steadily at the face of Mosheh because of the esteem of his face, which was passing away, how much more esteemed shall the administering of the Spirit not be?”

    the question is, what empowers us to obey Gods commands. That is what the OP attempted to address. Makes you wander why no one wants to discuss it.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    You are still ignoring my post and my points. You want me to answer about something I never did. I wanted to discuss the scripture you seem to ignore. If you are uncomfortable having the discussion, I understand.
    You are not being honest here. I already told you you did not understand my posts. Proven by your response.

    Lets try again..

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    I hope we can too EG.

    Jesus said we are to live by every Word of God, not just the scriptures that can support a religious teaching. Paul said a lot of things that you don't talk about.

    Rom. 2:13, Not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law are justified.

    1 Corinthians 7:19, Circumcision is nothing, un-circumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God.

    Jesus said, MATT. 19:17, If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

    James 1:22, But be ye doers of the Word, not hearers only, deceiving your own self.

    1 John 2:4, He that sigh , I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.

    There are many more not to mention the only scripture that existed in Paul's time which is the Word Jesus said to live by.

    So this is the problem with people who "preach" or desire to be teachers of the law as Paul tells Timothy. They post scripture and attempt to define it but they don't have a clue what they are saying because they reject any scripture that might shed a light on the Biblical message. This happens because they are attempting to justify their existing doctrine rather than letting the Word create their doctrine for them.

    You must ignore so many scriptures in order to support your "The law wasn't made for Christians" doctrine. You ignore the "works of the law" that existed for the remission of sins that Paul said was "added" until the Seed should come. You ignore the Biblical fact that Abraham was blessed because he obeyed God. You ignore the Biblical fact that Abraham was justified without the Levitical Priesthood " works of the law" for remission of sins because it had not been "added" to God's laws yet.

    I mean no offence, You only preach what you have been taught. But you are forced to ignore these many scriptures because they say the opposite of what your religious leaders preach, as prophesied. Desiring to be a teacher of the law (gospel of Christ) not knowing what they say, nor where of they affirm.

    Jesus warned about this over and over. People who come in His Name to deceive. How many times in the examples that God wrote for our admonition did Satan attempt to deceive a person into obeying God? How many Faith examples in the Bible were unfaithful to God. How can you love God and not do what He says? How can you know the will of God if you reject the very Book where His will is made manifest?

    It would be great to have an intellectually honest and truthful conversation about Paul's writing. But how can we have one if you reject the Word that he taught from, þe Old Testament as the Catholic church named it.

    It would be great to have a calm honest conversation about the Word, especially considering the important warnings Jesus gave us. But how can we if all a person does is try and defend a doctrine from a tradition soaked religion who openly transgressed the commandments of God by their man made doctrines and traditions. Who openly create images of God in the likeness of man, in direct rebellion to the first and greatest commandment. Of course you preach we have no law because it condemns Mainstream Christianity just as it condemned the Pharisees, the Mainstream Church of Christ's time.

    From experience and from the examples God gave us I am sure this post will not be received well. But it is my hope to have such conversations as a way of "Taking heed" as our Lord and Savior instructed.

    One scripture does not over power another. Paul did not contradict himself and neither did Jesus. This is a conversation worth having in my view.
    lets start with the bolded part. Can you tell me where I said we do not have to obey Gods commands, Where I ignore them or where I just pass them off and say they are ok to break all we want?

    Can you show me where I said that people who do not do Gods commands are saved? Or that people who are saved do not do Gods commands?

    If you can not get that part right. The rest of your comments will be wrong also.
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    You have it backwards. Jesus said it is in LOVE that the law is fulfilled. He never said it is in the law that love is fulfilled. I doubt paul would contradict jesus.
    Actually you have it backwards. If the Ten Commandments are irrelevant for Christians, neither Paul nor Jesus would connect them to being fulfilled in love. By stating that they are FULFILLED, it means that they are valid and relevant through love (Mt 22:36-40).

    36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38 This is the first and great commandment.
    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


    King James Bible (Rom 13:10)
    Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    Strong's Concordance
    pléróma: fullness, a filling up
    Original Word: πλήρωμα, ατος, τό
    Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
    Transliteration: pléróma
    Phonetic Spelling: (play'-ro-mah)
    Short Definition: fullness, fulfillment, completion
    Definition: (a) a fill, fullness; full complement; supply, patch, supplement, (b) fullness, filling, fulfillment, completion.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    1) Judaizers haven't believed the Gospel.

    2) Mainstream/Traditional Christian beliefs = Believing the Gospel (in context of the arguments of some in this thread) which is why Judaizers use derogation toward these just as Judaizers have always done as seen in Paul's day. Those who have believed are targeted in attempt to sway them from their security in Christ.

    3) Pharisees, though much maligned, did in fact try to obey God. To dismiss this truth is short-sighted. Note Paul's own testimony in 1 Timothy 1. They also added traditions as well, in their zeal. The bottom line is the Law nor works can never save a single soul.

    4) Judaizers don't preach Christ. They preach self, what they do, and many things, but not Christ.

    In refuting these Judaizers, it is all very simple. Those in the NT Scriptures who believed the Gospel unto salvation were not instructed to go learn about the Levitical Priesthood, nor were they told to obey the Law as a help for Christ to save them (which is what is being taught here by the heretics), nor were they instructed to be circumcised or follow Moses teachings, which think about it, this is what the Judaizers are doing here in this thread. Doping all these things would be to fall from grace.

    Those examples of true salvation in the NT Scriptures believed and were subsequently saved via the Gospel with for the most part no knowledge of the Levitical Priesthood and with zero adherence to it.

    They weren't instructed later to do anything else concerning the salvation of their souls, unless it was the Judaizers telling them this, that they needed to observe certain aspects of Moses' teachings.

    For any to come on here and tell us we must understand these things in order to "truly" understand the Gospel (which is really adding works) is to preach a false gospel. That is what is happening in this thread.

    Christ is enough, his finished work is enough, and the time we believed and were saved is enough. Those attempting to add to this are heretical neo-Judaizers.
    Show me where Jesus said the Pharisees were trying to obey God

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    You are not being honest here. I already told you you did not understand my posts. Proven by your response.

    Lets try again..

    .


    lets start with the bolded part. Can you tell me where I said we do not have to obey Gods commands, Where I ignore them or where I just pass them off and say they are ok to break all we want?

    Can you show me where I said that people who do not do Gods commands are saved? Or that people who are saved do not do Gods commands?

    If you can not get that part right. The rest of your comments will be wrong also.
    From your posts it seem you don’t believe Paul when he says the doers of the law are justified before God. If I have misunderstood all your posts and you in fact do believe Paul in this and other scriptures then we are in agreement.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Actually you have it backwards. If the Ten Commandments are irrelevant for Christians, neither Paul nor Jesus would connect them to being fulfilled in love. By stating that they are FULFILLED, it means that they are valid and relevant through love (Mt 22:36-40).

    36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38 This is the first and great commandment.
    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


    King James Bible (Rom 13:10)
    Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    Strong's Concordance
    pléróma: fullness, a filling up
    Original Word: πλήρωμα, ατος, τό
    Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
    Transliteration: pléróma
    Phonetic Spelling: (play'-ro-mah)
    Short Definition: fullness, fulfillment, completion
    Definition: (a) a fill, fullness; full complement; supply, patch, supplement, (b) fullness, filling, fulfillment, completion.

    Jesus said Love your neighbor, and love God. In these two commands ARE all the law and prophets fulfilled

    He did not say, Do not commit adultery, and in doing so you fulfill love.’
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    From your posts it seem you don’t believe Paul when he says the doers of the law are justified before God.
    Please show me where I said that, or even insinuated that. If your going to attack my posts. And least prove I believe what you think I believe.

    If I have misunderstood all your posts and you in fact do believe Paul in this and other scriptures then we are in agreement.
    I can not tell if we are in agreement or not. You have not proven you understand what I even have said.

    Again, Can you show me how you think I said those thing, what part of my post confused you?
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    From your posts it seem you don’t believe Paul when he says the doers of the law are justified before God. If I have misunderstood all your posts and you in fact do believe Paul in this and other scriptures then we are in agreement.
    While Paul did indeed write those words you have completely misunderstood the meaning. Paul and James both knew that even the most devout Jews could not do the law and find justification. Justification is by grace. Those in Christ enjoy the mercy of God Who has hid their sin behind His back and remembers it no more.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Originally Posted by Grandpa
    Romans 9:31-32
    31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
    32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    Its not difficult. Its the same exact thing the Judaizers and legalists of today do.

    Its what Paul says not to do.

    Its what the Lord Jesus gives the solution for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    You still reject and ignore the Biblical reality of the Levitical Priesthood. Of course you must in order to maintain Mainstream traditions. The Mainstream preachers of Christ’s time and before taught that to be cleansed ( made righteous) you must follow the Levitical “works of the law”. They taught that man could not be made righteous apart from this “added” law. They rejected the true purpose of these ceremonies and the Messiah they foreshadowed. Until you accept this truth, you will never understand Paul.
    Of course I reject your error.

    The one part of the law that required faith was sacrifice of unblemished innocent blood to cover for sin. That CAN'T be what is referred to in Romans 9

    The law of righteousness - was the Levitical Priesthood ever referred to as that?

    Nice try but FAIL. You aren't the first to try and separate the law into different parts and abolish the parts you don't like. And attempt to keep the parts you do like.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    There still is a problem though. When someone posts a thread, and the actual context of what the person posted is ignored. And people just start posting stuff not even related to the thread. What good is there? I am sure you all would not be happy if people did that to you.

    We have yet to discuss the context of what I wrote. Why is that?
    I have read you op and commented in length about why the Bible and I don’t agree with your conclusion. I asked for a conversation about it and you have refused. We already know what you believe and preach. I was hoping for an honest conversation about what the whole bible says about your belief and teaching. It seems you only want confirmation of your religion which, although much easier to do, would not be helpful for you or me. You want others to understand you but you don’t seem interested in understanding others.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    I have read you op and commented in length about why the Bible and I don’t agree with your conclusion.
    Then why will you not point out which part of my conclusion you disagree with> I made 4 lengthy posts. All I have seen you do is respond by things I have not said, or even concluded. So how can you say you disagree with me when you do not even know what it is?
    I
    asked for a conversation about it and you have refused.
    I have not refused. I am still talking am I not. I posted what you said, and I ask you to prove where I said what you claimed I said. It is you who is not willing to respond.

    We already know what you believe and preach. I was hoping for an honest conversation about what the whole bible says about your belief and teaching. It seems you only want confirmation of your religion which, although much easier to do, would not be helpful for you or me. You want others to understand you but you don’t seem interested in understanding others.

    lol. Thats what I thought You think you know what I believe, so you respond according to that.

    News flash. YOUR WRONG. YOUR WRONG ABOUT WHAT I BELIEVE ANBD YOUR WRONG ABOUT YOUR OCNCLUSION.

    I have already proved that by saying I did not believe those things, and asking you to show where I said them, which you evidently by your continued refusal to do so. Just prove you can not find where I said that, because I did not.

    Do you want to discuss or not? If you do0. THEN SHOW WHERE I SAID WHAT YOUCLAIM
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Here you go studyman, Here is my conclusion, Point out the parts you think I got wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    so what is improper us of the law!


    1. we keep the law to earn Gods acceptance (justification)


    Gal 2: 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

    2. We keep the law in order to help us mature in Christ (Sanctification)



    Rom 6: 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
    Rom 7: 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.


    These 2 false applications of the law which as paul says is confidently taught by false teachers, (they actually believe and are confident they are right). is devastating to church growth, individual growth and as a church we need to stand against them.


    1 Paul makes it clearl it is under grace we have power over sin, not law. The law will not make us good people, grace will


    2. We serve god in a new way, by the spirit, not the letter (law)


    Today, many call this false teaching legalism.
    legalism states


    1. we are righteous because we are good, thus we do not need certain things


    2. we are bad, thus we do not reserve certain things. so why bother
    what does Paul tell us we SHOULD focus on instead?!

    12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful,
    Notice, God enabled Paul not because he obeyed the law and was righteous, but because of his faith!
    putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.


    Paul is saying instead of focusing on laws, genealogies and fables, focus on Gods grace


    1. God came to save sinners


    2. He is chief of all sinners


    3. because of grace, Paul is enables to do what God wanted him to do. which was to be an apostle, God empowers us in all things, by grace, and mercy, not by works, he enables us and strengthens us.

    Rom 11: 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.


    Grace and works are opposed to each other, one cancels the other out, it can not be both it has to be one or the other.
    2 Tim 4: 18 And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!

    Eph 3 20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.


    Paul is telling us to appreciate Gods grace, and thanksgiving. These, unlike law will have positive effects on the church and individuals


    1. it is contagious


    2. it produces humility (as opposed to self-righteousness, which come from following the law)


    3. it rekindles our passion to serve others, as we remember remember how God serves and is serving us, who are undeserving based on our personal righteousness


    4. It gives us strength and empowers us to forgive and love others.
    in review, grace build us up,


    Act 20:32 “So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.



    where the law gives us a false sense of entitlement, or a can lead to and a false sense of unworthiness.


    this is a serious subject, i hope we can discuss this freely and openly, while at the same time learn how a false interpretation of the law can only destroy and divide us, it will never edify us.
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    the question is, what empowers us to obey Gods commands. That is what the OP attempted to address. Makes you wander why no one wants to discuss it.
    (in no particular order)

    Choice, would be an answer someone would give. Tried everything else, my life is crap, I'll try this (choice).
    Fear, Might be an answer someone else would give.
    Love, Might be an answer someone else might give.
    Want, Might be an answer someone else might give.
    Faith, Might be an answer someone else might give.
    Hope, Might be an answer someone else might give.
    And, a whole mess of various other feelings and emotions.
    Entitlement, however, is not and answer I would give.
    Ultimately, empowerment, and/or how much, is betweenst the believer and God, IN Christ Jesus, Our Lord and Savior!
    I'll even give you the answer as to why!
    This is so no man can deceive you.


    (Cutting through the chaff)

    "You GO Lord Of The Harvest!"




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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    Of course I reject your error.

    The one part of the law that required faith was sacrifice of unblemished innocent blood to cover for sin. That CAN'T be what is referred to in Romans 9

    The law of righteousness - was the Levitical Priesthood ever referred to as that?

    Nice try but FAIL. You aren't the first to try and separate the law into different parts and abolish the parts you don't like. And attempt to keep the parts you do like.
    When Christ isn't enough to a person, they are still athirst and hunger, and seek something other than Christ to fill them.
    gb9, Grandpa and dcontroversal like this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    the question is, what empowers us to obey Gods commands. That is what the OP attempted to address. Makes you wander why no one wants to discuss it.
    They don't know.

    They have decided in the pride of their carnal mind that they should work at and fulfill the law by their strength and understanding.

    Making the same exact mistake as the pharisees before them.

    We, who have believed and have entered into His Rest, are no longer under the law but under Grace.


    And the judaizer will ask, in their blindness, so you are free to break the laws?

    No, of course not. No one is free to break laws. We are dead to the law so that we can be Gods Workmanship instead.

    That doesn't make sense to the judaizer because they don't know what faith in Christ is or what it accomplishes.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    They don't know.

    They have decided in the pride of their carnal mind that they should work at and fulfill the law by their strength and understanding.

    Making the same exact mistake as the pharisees before them.

    We, who have believed and have entered into His Rest, are no longer under the law but under Grace.


    And the judaizer will ask, in their blindness, so you are free to break the laws?

    No, of course not. No one is free to break laws. We are dead to the law so that we can be Gods Workmanship instead.

    That doesn't make sense to the judaizer because they don't know what faith in Christ is or what it accomplishes.

    Galatians 2


    5We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness comeby the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


    Live unto GOD through Faith in Christ.. that will mean being a doer of the Royal Law.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    They don't know.

    They have decided in the pride of their carnal mind that they should work at and fulfill the law by their strength and understanding.

    Making the same exact mistake as the pharisees before them.

    We, who have believed and have entered into His Rest, are no longer under the law but under Grace.


    And the judaizer will ask, in their blindness, so you are free to break the laws?

    No, of course not. No one is free to break laws. We are dead to the law so that we can be Gods Workmanship instead.

    That doesn't make sense to the judaizer because they don't know what faith in Christ is or what it accomplishes.

    Which is the Just of what I wanted to discuss.

    What gives us power to obey Gods commands. The law? Or Grace and mercy..

    But they can not see that. Because they say I posted what seems to be a thread against the law (which is was not) and assumed they knew what I meant.

    If they would have read. Paul (or I) am not against the law. But against false application of the law.
    gb9, Grandpa and joaniemarie like this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    Galatians 2


    5We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness comeby the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


    Live unto GOD through Faith in Christ.. that will mean being a doer of the Royal Law.
    You are kind of an anomaly, like an exception in my view.

    I think you DO understand the scriptures but the rest of the people who you "like" their posts do not.


    If we are DEAD to the law then it is not our understanding or strength that is doing the Law. And if we do find ourselves working at the law by our strength and understanding then we are in fact NOT dead to the law.

    So, you are not incorrect in your summary, you are spot on. But I believe you are incorrect in your application. Probably not by much but just enough to make me really nervous for you sometimes.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Which is the Just of what I wanted to discuss.

    What gives us power to obey Gods commands. The law? Or Grace and mercy..

    But they can not see that. Because they say I posted what seems to be a thread against the law (which is was not) and assumed they knew what I meant.

    If they would have read. Paul (or I) am not against the law. But against false application of the law.
    Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

    Its funny that the judaizers and legalists still consider it heresy, although they love to post and twist this verse to try and make it mean work at the law... lol

    And this is what they consider heresy;

    Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

    Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

    Galatians 3:24-25
    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    Romans 8:1-2
    1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

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