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Thread: Paul exposes false application of the law

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoozy View Post
    amen great post said it all. notice the regulations for keeping the sabbath are impossible today. no one actually keeps it. the fakers from the hebrew roots cults only claim they do.

    this is why its important to rightly divide the word of truth or u will end up with all kinds of false doctrines.

    usually a good way to spot a cult is they are heavily focused on a couple verses from the old testament.
    Amen! Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, they are not "truly keeping the Sabbath." To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required under the Old Covenant in the Old Testament would involve compliance with regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced. If Sabbath-day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13).

    These were commanded by God to Israel. If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why don't Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person say he keeps a certain law when he keeps only part of it?

    If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh-day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under the Mosaic regulations.

    What is it with this perverted Sabbath gospel? Some even go to the extreme that we keep the Sabbath in order to secure salvation (as taught by Ellen White, author and co-founder of the SDA church) which is certainly a "different" gospel and is a disturbing false doctrine to say the least!

    Another disturbing teaching by Ellen White is..... those who reject God's memorial of creatorship--the Bible Sabbath--choosing to worship and honor Sunday...will receive the mark of the beast."

    Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Amen! Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, they are not "truly keeping the Sabbath." To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required under the Old Covenant in the Old Testament would involve compliance with regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced. If Sabbath-day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13).

    These were commanded by God to Israel. If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why don't Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person say he keeps a certain law when he keeps only part of it?

    If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh-day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under the Mosaic regulations.

    What is it with this perverted Sabbath gospel? Some even go to the extreme that we keep the Sabbath in order to secure salvation (as taught by Ellen White, author and co-founder of the SDA church) which is certainly a "different" gospel and is a disturbing false doctrine to say the least!

    Another disturbing teaching by Ellen White is..... those who reject God's memorial of creatorship--the Bible Sabbath--choosing to worship and honor Sunday...will receive the mark of the beast."

    Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast
    great again. u are saying what im thinking but putting in words more polite and eloquent. im just a meathead.

    it makes me so mad listening to that sabbatarian false gospel. ellen white was messed up on a lot of doctrines.

    ellen white was probably violating 1 timothy 2:12 like its nothing. as most heretics do
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoozy View Post
    great again. u are saying what im thinking but putting in words more polite and eloquent. im just a meathead.

    it makes me so mad listening to that sabbatarian false gospel. ellen white was messed up on a lot of doctrines.

    ellen white was probably violating 1 timothy 2:12 like its nothing. as most heretics do
    Why are you so mad? The SDA attendees are choosing where to come together with Believers.. I’m not well informed with SDA but the Gentlemen that are seem genuine and true believers of Christ from their witness..

    The Messiah is the Lord of Sabbath and teaches us about it.. just as He teaches us all things... your acting like their is something wrong with Loving GOD and Remembering to Keep the Sabbath Holy.. all things are of Faith in Christ.
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    Senior Member Snoozy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    Why are you so mad? The SDA attendees are choosing where to come together with Believers.. I’m not well informed with SDA but the Gentlemen that are seem genuine and true believers of Christ from their witness..

    The Messiah is the Lord of Sabbath and teaches us about it.. just as He teaches us all things... your acting like their is something wrong with Loving GOD and Remembering to Keep the Sabbath Holy.. all things are of Faith in Christ.
    there is nothing wrong with keeping the sabbath.

    there is wrong with teaching if u dont keep it u lost ur salvation. u really cant see the difference?

    i dont care how genuine and gentlemen those guys are. thats what u gotta look out for. all the love talk is empty and vain. just like the mormons and jehovah's falsewitnesses get people to join by being so nice. nice dont mean ur right.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoozy View Post
    there is nothing wrong with keeping the sabbath.

    there is wrong with teaching if u dont keep it u lost ur salvation. u really cant see the difference?
    Is a person teaching this? Because there is a difference indeed..

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    Senior Member mailmandan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    your acting like their is something wrong with Remembering to Keep the Sabbath Holy..
    Do you find something wrong with the teachings in this website below and what the SDA church teaches in regards to the Sabbath and the mark of the beast?

    https://www.beastsmark.com

    Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Do you find something wrong with the teachings in this website below and what the SDA church teaches in regards to the Sabbath and the mark of the beast?

    https://www.beastsmark.com

    Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast

    In a nutshell if you may?

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    In a nutshell if you may?
    From the beastsmark website:

    THE MARK OF THE BEAST COMES FROM LEGISLATED LAWS OF ENFORCED SUNDAY WORSHIP AND BREAKING ANY OF GOD"S COMMANDMENTS

    RECEIVING THE MARK IN THE FOREHEAD = TO BELIEVE IN SUNDAY WORSHIP AND TO OBEY IT
    RECEIVING THE MARK IN THE HAND = TO OBEY (You don't need to believe in Sunday Worship)

    God’s seal is His name, character and law written in His people’s hearts and minds. These characteristics are seen in His 7th day Sabbath commandment, which identifies Him as our Creator (Ex 20: 10). God's true followers are identified as those who resist the mark of the beast and keep God's 7th Day Sabbath Holy.

    From the nonsda website that exposes the teachings of the SDA church:

    Seventh-day Adventists teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. Following are the main points of this doctrine:

    1. Adventists identify the union of Roman Catholicism with civil power as the "beast" of Revelation:

    "The beast described in Revelation 13:1-10 is the church-state union that dominated the Christian world for many centuries and was described by Paul as the 'man of sin' (2 Thess. 2:2-4) and by Daniel as the 'little horn' (Den. 7:8, 20-25; 8:9-12). The image of the beast represents that form of apostate religion that will be developed when churches having lost the true spirit of the Reformation, shall unite with the state to enforce their teachings on others."

    2. The Catholic Church, in the Dark Ages, changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday, a pagan day of worship.

    3. At the end of time, a conflict will arise between those who worship the beast and his image and those who are the true followers of God. What sets these two groups apart is that one group, the true loyal remnant, keeps Saturday as a holy day, and the other group, the fallen and apostate, keeps Sunday as a holy day:

    "One class will advocate a gospel of human devisings and will worship the beast and his image... The other class, in marked contrast, will live by the true gospel and 'keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus' (Rev. 14:9,12)... those who reject God's memorial of creatorship--the Bible Sabbath--choosing to worship and honor Sunday...will receive the mark of the beast."

    4. At the end of time, those who keep Sunday as a holy day will seek to destroy those who keep Saturday as a holy day. They will pass laws against the Sabbath-keepers, eventually passing a death-penalty for those who keep Saturday holy.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    Is a person teaching this? Because there is a difference indeed..
    yes. lovegodforever is teaching this, he has said it many times. just look at the threads he has started. last page on teh colossians thread its there.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoozy View Post
    yes. lovegodforever is teaching this, he has said it many times. just look at the threads he has started. last page on teh colossians thread its there.
    LGF has a link to the "beastsmark" website at the bottom of all of his posts which teaches such dangerous false doctrine.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Back to the op.

    Paul made it clear, it is with thanksgiving, love and faith of Gods grace we are empowered to obey Gods commands.

    So why is this? Can we come up with some reasons why this is true, and why trying to do it by just following a letter does not work?
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Back to the op.

    Paul made it clear, it is with thanksgiving, love and faith of Gods grace we are empowered to obey Gods commands.

    So why is this? Can we come up with some reasons why this is true, and why trying to do it by just following a letter does not work?
    I don't personally think one can even understand let alone follow the true intent ofthe Law in Spirit if they don't have a heart change and His Spirit upon them.

    Romans 2:15, "Who show the work of the Torah (Instructions/Law) written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing (condemming sin) or even excusing (justifying sin)."


    2 Corinthians 1:22, “who also sealed us, and gave the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge."


    Ephesians 3:17, “that the Messiah might dwell in your hearts through belief – having become rooted and grounded in love”


    1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”


    Ephesians 2:1-2, “And you were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.”



    Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."



    Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

    1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

    1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."

    1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

    Psalms 111:7-10, “The works of His hands are truth and right-ruling, All His orders are trustworthy, They are upheld forever and ever, Performed in truth and straightness. He sent redemption to His people, He has commanded His covenant forever. Set-apart and awesome is His Name. The fear of יהוה is the beginning of wisdom, All those doing them have a good understanding. His praise is standing forever.”


    Psalms 119:9-16, “How would a young man cleanse his path? To guard it according to Your word. I have sought You with all my heart; Let me not stray from Your commands! I have treasured up Your word in my heart, That I might not sin against You. Blessed are You, O יהוה! Teach me Your laws. With my lips I have recounted All the right-rulings of Your mouth. I have rejoiced in the way of Your witnesses, As over all riches. I meditate on Your orders, And regard Your ways. I delight myself in Your laws; I do not forget Your word”




    1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    I don't personally think one can even understand let alone follow the true intent ofthe Law in Spirit if they don't have a heart change and His Spirit upon them.

    Romans 2:15, "Who show the work of the Torah (Instructions/Law) written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing (condemming sin) or even excusing (justifying sin)."


    2 Corinthians 1:22, “who also sealed us, and gave the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge."


    Ephesians 3:17, “that the Messiah might dwell in your hearts through belief – having become rooted and grounded in love”


    1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”


    Ephesians 2:1-2, “And you were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.”



    Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."



    Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

    1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

    1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."

    1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

    Psalms 111:7-10, “The works of His hands are truth and right-ruling, All His orders are trustworthy, They are upheld forever and ever, Performed in truth and straightness. He sent redemption to His people, He has commanded His covenant forever. Set-apart and awesome is His Name. The fear of יהוה is the beginning of wisdom, All those doing them have a good understanding. His praise is standing forever.”


    Psalms 119:9-16, “How would a young man cleanse his path? To guard it according to Your word. I have sought You with all my heart; Let me not stray from Your commands! I have treasured up Your word in my heart, That I might not sin against You. Blessed are You, O יהוה! Teach me Your laws. With my lips I have recounted All the right-rulings of Your mouth. I have rejoiced in the way of Your witnesses, As over all riches. I meditate on Your orders, And regard Your ways. I delight myself in Your laws; I do not forget Your word”




    1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
    can you explain what your mean in words. it is hard to follow all these verses and try to understand what youtrying to get at. All one could do is assume they know what you mean, and if they got it wrong, it would be fruitless to try to discuss, because they do not understand what you saying.

    I understand the heart change, and the indwelling spirit, and I agree, But I do not see where most of those passages show this.

    Also. I agree, we need to have hearty change and the spirit. But again, How does love and faith empower us to fulfill Gods commands? Why does that work, and not just obeying letters?
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    Why are you so mad? The SDA attendees are choosing where to come together with Believers.. I’m not well informed with SDA but the Gentlemen that are seem genuine and true believers of Christ from their witness..

    The Messiah is the Lord of Sabbath and teaches us about it.. just as He teaches us all things... your acting like their is something wrong with Loving GOD and Remembering to Keep the Sabbath Holy.. all things are of Faith in Christ.
    I could be wrong but my understanding is that if you do not keep the Sabbath per the 4th commandment and what is required on that day then you are not a genuine believer, an apostate.

    Seventh-day Adventists teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. (Nonsda.org)


    1. "Sunday-keeping must be the mark of the beast." ... "The reception of his mark must be something that involves the greatest offense that can be committed against God." (The Marvel of Nations, Elder U. Smith pages 170, 183)
    2. "Here we find the mark of the beast. The very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, on the part of the Catholic church, without any authority from the Bible." (Ellen G. White, The Mark of the Beast, page 23)
    3. "The Sunday Sabbath is purely a child of the Papacy. It is the mark of the beast." (Advent Review, Vol. I, No. 2, August, 1850.)
    4. "The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church." ... "The keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath is the reception of the mark." (Ellen G. White, Great Controversy, Vol. 4, page 281.
    5. "The mark of the beast is Sunday-keeping. A law will enforce this upon Seventh-day Adventists. They won't obey. Then they will be outlawed, persecuted, and condemned to death! Of all the wild Advent speculations in the prophecies, this deserves to stand among the wildest." (Seventh-day Adventism Renounced" by D.M. Canright, 1914)
    6. "Sunday-keeping is an institution of the first beast, and ALL who submit to obey this institution emphatically worship the first beast and receive his mark, 'the mark of the beast.' .... Those who worship the beast and his image by observing the first day are certainly idolaters, as were the worshippers of the golden calf." (Advent Review Extra, pages 10 and 11, August, 1850)
    7. "the Seventh day, Saturday, must be kept; that keeping Sunday is the mark of the beast; that all should pay tithes; that Mrs. White is inspired as were the writers of the Bible; that the Bible must be interpreted to harmonize with her writings" (Seventh-day Adventism Renounced" by D.M. Canright, 1914) (bible.ca)


    That being the case then I am not a beliver.

    What does Paul say

    Galatians 4:8-12
    Fears for the Church
    8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. 9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.
    12 Brethren, I urge you to become like me, for I became like you. You have not injured me at all.

    4:8, 9 The words in bondage and elements refer back to v. 3. Paul was in effect asking the Galatians, “Is it spiritual progress again to be enslaved to weak and beggarly rituals and observances (v. 10)? How could you have known God and turned away to ‘childish’ (v. 3) things?” The Galatians had come to know God through faith in Jesus Christ (see John 17:2, 3). He had adopted them as His own sons, but they were turning back to the law that had once enslaved them.


    4:10 The word days likely refers to Sabbaths or special feasts. Months and seasons pertain to longer observances, such as the celebrations between the Passover and the Day of Pentecost. Years probably indicates the Year of Jubilee, the fiftieth year in which slaves were to be freed, family lands returned to their original owners, and the land left fallow (see Lev. 23-25). The Jews commemorated all these feasts in order to please God.


    4:12 I urge you: To get beyond the present dilemma, Paul appeals to the Galatians to follow his example (see 1 Cor. 11:1). He had abandoned the ceremonial rules and regulations connected with Judaism so that he could freely preach the gospel of Christ to Jew and Gentile alike in the cities of Galatia. They too should not hinder the gospel of Christ with laws and regulations. (NKJV study notes)

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    can you explain what your mean in words. it is hard to follow all these verses and try to understand what youtrying to get at. All one could do is assume they know what you mean, and if they got it wrong, it would be fruitless to try to discuss, because they do not understand what you saying.

    I understand the heart change, and the indwelling spirit, and I agree, But I do not see where most of those passages show this.

    Also. I agree, we need to have hearty change and the spirit. But again, How does love and faith empower us to fulfill Gods commands? Why does that work, and not just obeying letters?
    I was basically agreeing with you and posting the word to show it's founed upon the ROck;

    I don't personally think one can even understand let alone follow the true intent ofthe Law in Spirit if they don't have a heart change and His Spirit upon them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    I don't personally think one can even understand let alone follow the true intent ofthe Law in Spirit if they don't have a heart change and His Spirit upon them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Romans 2:15, "Who show the work of the Torah (Instructions/Law) written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing (condemming sin) or even excusing (justifying sin)."
    The heart that has been changerd will accuse sinful acts, the heart that has not will justify them or find a reason to say it's ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    2 Corinthians 1:22, “who also sealed us, and gave the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge."
    He put His mark upon us and it is seen by the repentant heart that seeks what is right;

    2 Timothy 2:19, "However, the solid foundation of Yah stands firm, having this seal*, “ יהוה knows those who are His, Let everyone who names the Name of Messiah turn away from unrighteousness.”

    Strong's Concordance *"seal"is word #G4973 - sphragis: a seal, a signet, Original Word: σφραγίς, ῖδος, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: sphragis, Phonetic Spelling: (sfrag-ece'), Short Definition: a signet-ring, impression of a seal, the proof, Definition: a seal, signet ring, the impression of a seal, that which the seal attests, the proof.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Ephesians 3:17, “that the Messiah might dwell in your hearts through belief – having become rooted and grounded in love”
    Messiah in ones heart changes the heart to be truly loving. (this is according to Yah love not according to the worlds)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”
    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post


    It is both ways, He gievs us a new heart/His Spirit and we seek to keep His Commands, we kjeeep His Commands His Spirit stays upon us;

    Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"


    Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”


    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Ephesians 2:1-2, “And you were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.”
    those in disobedience have a different spirit "according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."
    He put this heart and Spirit into us, not us doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."
    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post


    The intent and spirit of the Law is love;

    1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."
    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post


    again The intent and spirit of the Law is love;


    Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."



    "iniquity" is: #G458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
    Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
    1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness




    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."
    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post


    self explanatory, one can not love Yah and hate his fellow human.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”
    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post


    BY guarding/walking in His Commands real love according to what He says is grown and perfect in those doing. Theres are not new Copmmands but from the beginning,


    Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

    twisted by man properly explained and walked in by Yahshua.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Psalms 111:7-10, “The works of His hands are truth and right-ruling, All His orders are trustworthy, They are upheld forever and ever, Performed in truth and straightness. He sent redemption to His people, He has commanded His covenant forever. Set-apart and awesome is His Name. The fear of
    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    יהוה is the beginning of wisdom, All those doing them have a good understanding. His praise is standing forever.”


    self explanatory

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Psalms 119:9-16, “How would a young man cleanse his path? To guard it according to Your word. I have sought You with all my heart; Let me not stray from Your commands! I have treasured up Your word in my heart, That I might not sin against You. Blessed are You, O
    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    יהוה! Teach me Your laws. With my lips I have recounted All the right-rulings of Your mouth. I have rejoiced in the way of Your witnesses, As over all riches. I meditate on Your orders, And regard Your ways. I delight myself in Your laws; I do not forget Your word”

    self explanatory

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
    self explanatory
    Studyman likes this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Senior Member Hizikyah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Amen! Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, they are not "truly keeping the Sabbath." To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required under the Old Covenant in the Old Testament would involve compliance with regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced. If Sabbath-day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13).

    These were commanded by God to Israel. If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why don't Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person say he keeps a certain law when he keeps only part of it?
    one thi9ngs tho...


    the burbt offerengs were to be donr by the priests, and High Priest, that was never the job of the people. 2 lambs each persdon every Sabbath the nation would be out of lambs ni a week.

    Yahshua is High Prist now, we don;t have to make ascending offerings to honor sabbath.

    Isaiah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."
    Studyman likes this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Senior Member mailmandan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    one thi9ngs tho...

    the burbt offerengs were to be donr by the priests, and High Priest, that was never the job of the people. 2 lambs each persdon every Sabbath the nation would be out of lambs ni a week.
    So what about the other regulations that pertained to the Sabbath which were strictly enforced under the Old Covenant?

    Yahshua is High Prist now, we don;t have to make ascending offerings to honor sabbath.
    That's true, now keep coming all the way.

    Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day - 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    I was basically agreeing with you and posting the word to show it's founed upon the ROck;

    I don't personally think one can even understand let alone follow the true intent ofthe Law in Spirit if they don't have a heart change and His Spirit upon them.



    [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4]

    The heart that has been changerd will accuse sinful acts, the heart that has not will justify them or find a reason to say it's ok.

    [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4]

    He put His mark upon us and it is seen by the repentant heart that seeks what is right;

    2 Timothy 2:19, "However, the solid foundation of Yah stands firm, having this seal*, “ יהוה knows those who are His, Let everyone who names the Name of Messiah turn away from unrighteousness.”

    Strong's Concordance *"seal"is word #G4973 - sphragis: a seal, a signet, Original Word: σφραγίς, ῖδος, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: sphragis, Phonetic Spelling: (sfrag-ece'), Short Definition: a signet-ring, impression of a seal, the proof, Definition: a seal, signet ring, the impression of a seal, that which the seal attests, the proof.


    [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4]

    Messiah in ones heart changes the heart to be truly loving. (this is according to Yah love not according to the worlds)



    It is both ways, He gievs us a new heart/His Spirit and we seek to keep His Commands, we kjeeep His Commands His Spirit stays upon us;

    Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"


    Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”


    [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4]

    those in disobedience have a different spirit "according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience"

    [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4]

    He put this heart and Spirit into us, not us doing it.



    The intent and spirit of the Law is love;

    1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."



    again The intent and spirit of the Law is love;


    Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."



    "iniquity" is: #G458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
    Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
    1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness






    self explanatory, one can not love Yah and hate his fellow human.



    BY guarding/walking in His Commands real love according to what He says is grown and perfect in those doing. Theres are not new Copmmands but from the beginning,


    Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

    twisted by man properly explained and walked in by Yahshua.





    self explanatory

    [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4]


    self explanatory

    [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4]

    self explanatory
    Thanks I think, This does help. Although It is long and hard to respond to it al.

    I will just respond to this one part for now.

    You said the intent of the law is love, and used matt 24 as a reference, i disagree here. The reason their is iniquity is there is no love, That has nothing to do with the intent and spirit of the law.

    The law can not tell you to love, All it can do is show you how you have failed to love as God demands, Thus are guilty,

    The intent and the spirit of the law is to prove our guilt before God. And shut every mouth. Because all have sinned and fall short.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  19. #259
    Senior Member BillG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Thanks I think, This does help. Although It is long and hard to respond to it al.

    I will just respond to this one part for now.

    You said the intent of the law is love, and used matt 24 as a reference, i disagree here. The reason their is iniquity is there is no love, That has nothing to do with the intent and spirit of the law.

    The law can not tell you to love, All it can do is show you how you have failed to love as God demands, Thus are guilty,

    The intent and the spirit of the law is to prove our guilt before God. And shut every mouth. Because all have sinned and fall short.
    Do you not think though that the law now written on our hearts causes us to walk in the love that God has always wanted us to?

    Loving God and loving each other.

    Galatians 5:14
    14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

    Romans 12:9-21
    Behave Like a Christian
    9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.
    10 Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another;
    11 not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord;
    12 rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer;
    13 distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.
    14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
    15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.
    16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
    17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.
    18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.
    19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.
    20 Therefore“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;If he is thirsty, give him a drink;For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”
    21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

    When we do the above then we show we love God as well.

    Mind you I don’t her verse 20.
    Lord

    Help me to be the person my dog thinks I am.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by BillG View Post
    Do you not think though that the law now written on our hearts causes us to walk in the love that God has always wanted us to?

    Loving God and loving each other.

    Galatians 5:14
    14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

    Romans 12:9-21
    Behave Like a Christian
    9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.
    10 Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another;
    11 not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord;
    12 rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer;
    13 distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.
    14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
    15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.
    16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
    17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.
    18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.
    19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.
    20 Therefore“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;If he is thirsty, give him a drink;For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”
    21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

    When we do the above then we show we love God as well.

    Mind you I don’t her verse 20.
    I think when we have experienced Gods love, and learn to love as he does. The law becomes real. As we fully understand, it is not about keeping rules. It is about loving others.

    If Israel understood this, they would have loved their fellow countryman and the gentiles and wanted them to have what Israel Had. Instead. They misinterpreted the purpose for the law. And in trying to be godly, they proved they did not really know God at all.

    BillG likes this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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