Paul exposes false application of the law

[Studyman]

More importantly, what’s empowers us to live them.

The letter. Or the spirit?

You can tell be their works, either they walk in God's instruction, or they walk in the doctrines and traditions of man. As Jon teaches.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

If we walk in the doctrines and traditions of man and transgress His Commandments, He does not know us.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

So the Law of GOD is Spiritual .. but all are condemned by it.. showing us what? We needed Saving? Needed to be born again of the Holy Spirit..

The Lord teaches us to Love GOD and each other even our enemies... so yes the depths of Love are deep.. deeper than the you shall not covet etc.. because if you love your neighbour truly you would not desire what is His... and if you Love your parents you would honour them by default.. and if you Love GOD you do not do things that He detests.. Which His Law shows us and the Sabbath well the Lord of Sabbath taught us that it is lawful to do good.. so He definitely intends for His flock to Remember to Keep it Holy.. Which is to say separate.

Grace and Truth comes through the Messiah..


So the Law of GOD is written inwards when we BELIEVE.. under Grace at Liberty no condemnation because of what Christ did... got Victory for us to Save us... GOD be thanked and praised.. Our King who will return for us.. be Faithful you saints.. for He is always Faithful.

When GOD looks at Us HE looks at us In JESUS,legalistic minds always want to look at their own holiness.
For we are HIS workmanship created In JESUS unto good works that was before ordained that we should walk In them.

Why are you trying to attatch that I’m talking about anything other than unto good works?

I’m not accused by being labelled a legalist.. tar and brush comes to mind.. I’m content to Believe the Lord.

We are talking about what the Good Shepherd will see when He looks at His Flock.. did they hear Love and obey Him? Which is to Believe...

Don’t take my post personally If It does not apply and I apologize for being abrasive.

 

[gb9]

You can tell be their works, either they walk in God's instruction, or they walk in the doctrines and traditions of man. As Jon teaches.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

If we walk in the doctrines and traditions of man and transgress His Commandments, He does not know us.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

if you keep reading the letter of 1st John, you will see that in chapter 3 that John says the commands of God are believe in the Son and love each other. not to the Law of Moses.

you might want to try to thoroughly study.

 

[Studyman]

if you keep reading the letter of 1st John, you will see that in chapter 3 that John says the commands of God are believe in the Son and love each other. not to the Law of Moses.

you might want to try to thoroughly study.

Moses never created any laws, God did. If you don’t know that, you are the one that needs to study.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Please Stop trying to imply things.. no one can walk right to be saved.. and no one is proposing such.. we all know no one enters the Kingdom of GOD if they are not Born again.. we are talking about Growing in Grace and knowledge of Christ as Believers.. to make our calling and election sure..

Okay I’m sorry I thought you were one that believes that salvation to GOD Is by Grace through faith plus works.

 

[gb9]

Moses never created any laws, God did. If you don’t know that, you are the one that needs to study.

your right, God gave the Law to Moses, and then to Israel. only. gentiles were never under the Law. what were the proselytes in the N.T. ? they were gentiles who converted to Judaism. the word can be translated " newcomer to Israel ". so, if they were under it, why would they need to convert TO it.

and, as usual, silence on 1st John 3. you law people do not want to talk about that.

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 2:12, “For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”[/FONT]​

​

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]judgment seat” is word #G968 - béma: a step, raised place, by impl. A tribunal, Original Word: βῆμα, ατος, τό, Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter, Transliteration: béma, Phonetic Spelling: (bay'-ma), Short Definition: the space covered by a step of the foot, a tribunal, Definition: an elevated place ascended by steps, a throne, tribunal.[/FONT]​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can't have one without the other EG.

Repentance + Works worthy of repentance

Faith+ works to show who we have faith in.

Grace+ obedience with the help of the "Helper".

The Pharisees didn't have obedience, therefore they didn't receive Grace.

Abraham had obedience, therefore he received Grace.

You preach that the Pharisees were trying to obey God to earn their salvation, the Bible teaches the Pharisees were obeying their own traditions and doctrines and rejecting God's instruction. Had they exhibited the Faith of Abraham, they would have received the promises given to Abraham, (Grace)

Grace comes first, but without True Repentance we will not receive the Grace that is free given. Without repentance we all shall likewise perish.

On the contrary, You can not have both, You have to have one or the other.

The law brings a curse to ALL who do not obey (according to moses every word)

Grace says in spite of that Curse, I love you anyway, so much I gave my life for you.

YThe law says do this or else. Grace says Since you have not done what I demand (perfect obedience to the law) I will take care of the issue, remove the curse, by becoming a curse for you.

You want to earn the gift of God. Good luck with that my friend. I will pray for you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well you have exalted yourself much over many..

Excuse me, But you and all of your friends who keep pushing to everyone “YOU TEACH CHRIST’s WORDS” are exulting yourself over everyone, You puff yourself up saying your are right everyone else is wrong. Your post verses, which you claim prove your point of view. Yet the same verses you post are believed by us also. You just have your own interpretation of what they mean, And we have ours. Everytime you say you teach Gods words, how dare I judge you, You are claiming superiority, and your strawman does not help you case. It makes you come across as arrogant and pridefull

you add little pieces as if I have said them as Gospel.. I guess to amplify your feelings toward me.. I’m sharing what the Holy Spirit Teaches. .

See there you go again, Your puffing yourself up. Claiming you are above others. Claiming you have special knowledge of the truth, and we are in error. Yet you judge us.

what you are are telling us what YOU THINK THE HS SAYS. Then getting upset and attack those who disagree with you.

for without I was Blind and hear not.. but GOD be thanked it is no longer so.. we each are to walk the path of Righteousness following the Lord and I will continue to do just that without strife with someone who declares Christ as their Saviour....You pick and choose in part.. of what He said to further your Beliefs as much as you imply I do... so I bid you farewell and may I see you at the end of the race..

You better be perfect. Because that is what the law requires. If not. You are in danger.

better yet, Recieve and accept Grace and Love as the means to overcome sin. As I already showed Paul said is the way.

or continue to desire to teach the law. Yet show you do not understand it. Just like the false teachers in Paul’s day did.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus made whips and whipped those who would corrupt His Fathers Holy Days. He called those who created images of God after the likeness of man liars and hypocrites. He called those who placed their own man made doctrines, traditions and "Feasts unto the Lord" over the Commandments of God servants of satan.

You are preaching a jesus that is not from the Bible. You have no clue what the "Love of God" is because you reject the scriptures that define it.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

If God writes His Laws on our heart, then we will walk in His Laws. If some other spirit writes its laws on our heart, then we will walk in those laws.

It is the other spirit that convinces men to create images of God after the likeness of man, thus rebelling against the true God. It is the other spirit that write on man's mind to reject God's Feasts and create their own. It is the other spirit that writes on man's mind to reject God's Sabbath and create their own.

It was in Paul's time and it is today.

"By their "works" we shall know them." EG, if a church transgresses the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions, it is not God's Church. I write this to help you, not to condemn you.

How can you claim the blood of Jesus for yourself and treat His Father with so much contempt? How can you read the Bible and still preach that the Mainstream preachers of Christ's time were striving to obey God?

There is a reason you can do these things and not be ashamed EG. It is a spiritual reason. As Peter said,

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

We are to "Walk even as He walked". Yet you condemn anyone who would strive to do just that by calling them "Legalists" and "Judiazers".

If you know this and still do it, that is one thing. If you are just tricked like so many, then you can still repent and bring "works" worthy of repentance.

Jesus had this conversation with the Mainstream preachers of His time.

John 9:40 And some of the Pharisees(Mainstream Preachers) which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.


He that has an ear, let them hear.

Jesus use whips to destroy those who were getting rich of other people in Gods name.

Keep talking my friend, keep showing your one of th people Paul warned us about.

And while your at it, Stop your slander, or I will [put you in a category with JJ, and Peter Jenz and others who try to force your belief system down other people by lieing about what they believe.

1. I believe we should follow Gods commands. I do not believe we do it the way you are suggesting,

Agasin, Gods people FOLLOW HIS COMMANDS. It is not a suggestion that they might, it is a statement of fact. As apposed to those who are not Gods, who do not follow his commands THE WAY GOD INTENDED THEM TO!

So take your slanderous lies elsewhere.

 

[Studyman]

your right, God gave the Law to Moses, and then to Israel. only. gentiles were never under the Law. what were the proselytes in the N.T. ? they were gentiles who converted to Judaism. the word can be translated " newcomer to Israel ". so, if they were under it, why would they need to convert TO it.

and, as usual, silence on 1st John 3. you law people do not want to talk about that.

I would gladly discuss John or any other chapter. I don't believe you can use one scripture to beat up on another scripture. The whole "my scripture is tougher than your scripture" game you play is foolishness.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. Not whatever religious franchise you belong to.

I am trying to expose what Jesus said would come. I fear you have been deceived by satan disguised as a "Christian" as Jesus warned. I can think of no other reason why you make up so many outlandish falsehoods about God and His Word.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, (as God directed Moses to Command)as he gave us commandment.

Loving the brother is a law of Moses just like thou shall not kill.

God gave Abraham His laws as well. Once again your preaching has been proven false by God's Word.

"God gave the Law to Moses, and then to Israel. only"

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.


Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, (Law of Moses)and from fornication,(Law of Moses) and from things strangled,(Law of Moses) and from blood.(Law of Moses)

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.( Where they will learn the rest of the Law of Moses)

Peter told the New Converts to do exactly what Jesus instructed His "Jewish" disciples to do.

Matt. 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

You should really at least read the Bible yourself before accusing others of not knowing what it teaches.

The things you say and preach are so far out of what the Bible actually says its embarrassing.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Same preaching for the Jews, same preaching for the Gentiles. Repent and bring works worthy of repentance.

It's not to late for you to follow His instruction.

 

[oldethennew]

Jesus 'writes the Law' upon the hearts of His called...we have a choice
of what we do with this Holy information...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can tell be their works, either they walk in God's instruction, or they walk in the doctrines and traditions of man. As Jon teaches.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

If we walk in the doctrines and traditions of man and transgress His Commandments, He does not know us.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You did not answer the question.

WHat empowers us to obey the commands. Do you know or not? You continued insistence of saying things we both agree on is for the birds..

All believers obey Gods commands, Thats How we know they are gods.

So what empowers them? Do you know or not?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Moses never created any laws, God did. If you don’t know that, you are the one that needs to study.

God gave moses laws. And he had a purpose for them.

You ignored what Gb9 said about 1st john. WHay are you trying to hide, is it that you do not know?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

your right, God gave the Law to Moses, and then to Israel. only. gentiles were never under the Law. what were the proselytes in the N.T. ? they were gentiles who converted to Judaism. the word can be translated " newcomer to Israel ". so, if they were under it, why would they need to convert TO it.

and, as usual, silence on 1st John 3. you law people do not want to talk about that.

They have been shown over and over what the purpose of the law was. They chose to ignore it. And they refuse to answer what Paul spoke of to Timothy., about what really empowers us to have victory over sin, and causes us to walk in his statutes.

They love to preach law. But they refuse to teach what empowers us to obey it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus 'writes the Law' upon the hearts of His called...we have a choice
of what we do with this Holy information...

How do we obey this information?

WHat empowers us to have victory over sin.. That is supposed to be the purpose of this op. But it has been hijacked by lawyers. Do you know want to discuss what empowers us to obey Gods commands?

I think it is a very important topic. Because if we get this wrong, spiritual maturity will be impossible.

 

[Grandpa]

I’m asking you to show me side by side of what condemned me is different to the Spiritual Law of GOD..

The problem was never GOD’s Law it was us that needed changing inwardly..

I thought this would be very good information.

But the Lord already did it in Matthew 5.

He shows the letter, the part people thought they could fulfill by their carnal work, and then He shows the Spiritual.


The reason the letter condemns you is because you think you understand it and you think you can fulfill it by your carnal work and your carnal understanding but that is not how its fulfilled. Because it is a spiritual law and not a carnal one.

The only way the spiritual law is fulfilled is by the Holy Spirit. Legalists and Judaizers cannot comprehend this. Their circular reasoning always brings them back to their understanding of the 10 commandments.

Romans 9:31-32
[FONT=&quot]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 3:21-22
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Do you understand what Righteousness is? It is right standing before God. Saying that your faith in Christ has caused you to work at the law is an oxymoron. Your work at the law has caused you to fall from the righteousness that is faith in Christ.

Faith in Christ is what leads us to understand that the law is spiritual and cannot be fulfilled by our carnal work.

Faith in Christ is what leads us to understand that His thoughts and His Way is much higher than our thoughts and our ways.

Galatians 3:11-12
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.[/FONT]

 

[Studyman]

You did not answer the question.

WHat empowers us to obey the commands. Do you know or not? You continued insistence of saying things we both agree on is for the birds..

All believers obey Gods commands, Thats How we know they are gods.

So what empowers them? Do you know or not?

The point of my post is to reveal what the scripture says about how we know if someone is truly a servent of Christ, bought with a price and bringing every thought into the obedience of Christ, or if they just serve Him with their lips.

If I see someone walking and preaching in the same laws and instruction as Jesus, like Hiz, I can assume he is a true believer, like Abraham.

But if I see folks transgressing God’s Commandments by their own doctrines and traditions, I can assume they, like the Pharisees, have created their own religion.

Either path has works from those who are on them.

If I see the man walking the narrow path Jesus was on, I will know it is God that empowers him.

If I see a man preach and walk in the donstines and traditions of man, like the Pharisees did, I will also know what Spirit empowers them.

That is what Jesus tells us.

“By their fruits you shall Know them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The point of my post is to reveal what the scripture says about how we know if someone is truly a servent of Christ, bought with a price and bringing every thought into the obedience of Christ, or if they just serve Him with their lips.

If I see someone walking and preaching in the same laws and instruction as Jesus, like Hiz, I can assume he is a true believer, like Abraham.

But if I see folks transgressing God’s Commandments by their own doctrines and traditions, I can assume they, like the Pharisees, have created their own religion.

Either path has works from those who are on them.

If I see the man walking the narrow path Jesus was on, I will know it is God that empowers him.

If I see a man preach and walk in the donstines and traditions of man, like the Pharisees did, I will also know what Spirit empowers them.

That is what Jesus tells us.

“By their fruits you shall Know them.

Same old same ole

I have said over and over, People who are true believers will follow Gods way, there is not a question.

You can not tell if people are gods just by how they act.

People can act like christians. people who do not know God can be morally good. Even paul said the gentiles who did not have the law By nature do what is in the law Becauser the law is in our dna.

again, what does God tell us is out power to overcome sin. Do you know or not?

 

[gb9]

I would gladly discuss John or any other chapter. I don't believe you can use one scripture to beat up on another scripture. The whole "my scripture is tougher than your scripture" game you play is foolishness.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. Not whatever religious franchise you belong to.

I am trying to expose what Jesus said would come. I fear you have been deceived by satan disguised as a "Christian" as Jesus warned. I can think of no other reason why you make up so many outlandish falsehoods about God and His Word.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, (as God directed Moses to Command)as he gave us commandment.

Loving the brother is a law of Moses just like thou shall not kill.

God gave Abraham His laws as well. Once again your preaching has been proven false by God's Word.

"God gave the Law to Moses, and then to Israel. only"

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.


Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, (Law of Moses)and from fornication,(Law of Moses) and from things strangled,(Law of Moses) and from blood.(Law of Moses)

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.( Where they will learn the rest of the Law of Moses)

Peter told the New Converts to do exactly what Jesus instructed His "Jewish" disciples to do.

Matt. 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

You should really at least read the Bible yourself before accusing others of not knowing what it teaches.

The things you say and preach are so far out of what the Bible actually says its embarrassing.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Same preaching for the Jews, same preaching for the Gentiles. Repent and bring works worthy of repentance.

It's not to late for you to follow His instruction.

you cited Acts 15 for proving the Law of Moses is part of salvation. well, the whole chapter is a debate between the Apostles, among themselves, and believing Pharisees about circumcision and the Law. Peter said " why would you test God by placing a yoke on the Disciples that we nor or our fathers could bear? "

then , in the letter to the gentiles, they clearly said the ones telling them to be circumcised and keep the law were causing distress and confusion were not speaking for them.

and, when James said the Law of Moses was read in the synaogogues every Sabbath , he said that to JEWISH MEN, IN JERUSALEM. there was nothing said about the law or Sabbath in the actual letter sent to the gentiles. not a word.

so, who knowledge is embarrassing now. or who is trying to deceive by just plucking verses out of context and applying different meaning that what they have. i'd rather be embarrassing than purposely deceitful. because you darn well that James was talking to jewish men about the law being read on the Sabbath, not to gentiles.

do you think they meant to put instructions in the letter to the gentiles, and just left it out? but hey, according to you and others, the gentiles already had the law. awful lot of discussion about what to require of people already under the law. does not make much sense, does it??