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Thread: Paul exposes false application of the law

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by JaumeJ View Post
    If we love as our Father does, of course we fulfill the law. Of course we are not yet perfected for the work in us begun by Him will not be completeed until His day......We do not work for salvation, we do the good works given us by god. The guilt of any transgression we may commit is overlooked. We do not disobey byi nature, only by our failures. Yes we must work to enter into His rest even after we know Jesus Christ......... No one is perfected to perfection while yet in the flesh. If this were so we would already be just like Jesus, and we are not yet.

    So you agree with me, we are not sanctified by following the law. But by learning to trust God and love others as he loved us? And thast what Paul said, it is by GRACE we are empowered to have power over sin, and not law?
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    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    So we fulfill the law by loving others and God, and learning to trust God? It sounds like this is what your saying, am I correct?



    It is Faith that worketh by Love.. how can I not Trust the Lord that came and found me wandering? Shall I say no Lord leave me here I can find my own way to the Kingdom of GOD<< not possible.... or have I said Yes my Lord, Thank you and I’m eternally grateful and will do all you ask of me... for I love my GOD and want to Love Him like He Teaches us.. I’m trusting GOD by believing unto the saving of my soul..
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    It is Faith that worketh by Love.. how can I not Trust the Lord that came and found me wandering? Shall I say no Lord leave me here I can find my own way to the Kingdom of GOD<< not possible.... or have I said Yes my Lord, Thank you and I’m eternally grateful and will do all you ask of me... for I love my GOD and want to Love Him like He Teaches us.. I’m trusting GOD by believing unto the saving of my soul..

    So again, You believe we grow by Love, and learning to trust God. Yes or no?
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    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    John 17

    13And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.




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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    So again, You believe we grow by Love, and learning to trust God. Yes or no?
    We grow in Faith..

    we are to grow in Grace and knowledge of Christ our Lord..
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    No I agree with Jesus Christ.

    Are you trying to say I and others are not awre we are sanctified by the Blood of the Lamb of God?

    If so, you think very highly of yourself not giving credit to others for believeing Jesus Christ.


    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    So you agree with me, we are not sanctified by following the law. But by learning to trust God and love others as he loved us? And thast what Paul said, it is by GRACE we are empowered to have power over sin, and not law?
    From the Mouth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, or do you call Him Yeshua?
    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by JaumeJ View Post
    No I agree with Jesus Christ.

    Are you trying to say I and others are not awre we are sanctified by the Blood of the Lamb of God?

    If so, you think very highly of yourself not giving credit to others for believeing Jesus Christ.
    Lol. Ok. What did Jesus say.

    Can you ever respond to someone without being cryptic?


    I am not trying to say you and others are saying anything. I am asking you. Do you agree with Jesus that we are sanctified by the power of Grace and love through faith? Based on the blood of Christ.

    do you agree? Yes or no?
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    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    We grow in Faith..

    we are to grow in Grace and knowledge of Christ our Lord..
    So you agree with everything I said then. Because if you read what I posted. That was my conclusion.

    why then are you trying to appose me?
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    EG here is something you apparently do not know.


    No one is "sanctified" by works or obedience, but deliberate disobedience will cause a person to fall, and sometimes that fall is permanent..........look at Paul's teaching on this subject since you seem to have him as your exclusive teacher.

    It is written disobedience is like witchcraft, and stubborness is idolatry.

    If you believe the commandments of God are to be overlooked just becasue we are saved by grace, you are terribly in error, great error.

    Just the one commandment alone of honoring God only when truly obeyed is obeying all of the commandments, but apparently you do not understand this.

    Again, no man is saved simply by obedience but by deliberate disobedience with the knowledge of Jeus Christ is trampling on His Blood.........learn of Jesus, not of me........and learn of Paul, not just what you decide to see.
    From the Mouth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, or do you call Him Yeshua?
    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    So you agree with everything I said then. Because if you read what I posted. That was my conclusion.

    why then are you trying to appose me?

    So do you believe saints are to Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith of Jesus?

    Where have I opposed you?
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    I believe my posts are to the point but here, for your benefit.

    Jesus tells us to believe He is the Son of God. Now, I know you think you do this, but believing, if you look up th e word entais more than lip service.

    We are to honor Him not only with our lips but with our actions, with our lives.....this means works. Don't worry about finding works, He will supply plenty for you, for me ad for all........

    Please do not say we are not to continue working after we have received His grace for that would be asking others to be ingrates.

    It is not a matter of being rquired to work, it is a matter of working out of the joy of salvation. All who are saved by HIs Blood KNOW this.






    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Lol. Ok. What did Jesus say.

    Can you ever respond to someone without being cryptic?


    I am not trying to say you and others are saying anything. I am asking you. Do you agree with Jesus that we are sanctified by the power of Grace and love through faith? Based on the blood of Christ.

    do you agree? Yes or no?
    From the Mouth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, or do you call Him Yeshua?
    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by JaumeJ View Post
    EG here is something you apparently do not know.


    No one is "sanctified" by works or obedience, but deliberate disobedience will cause a person to fall, and sometimes that fall is permanent..........look at Paul's teaching on this subject since you seem to have him as your exclusive teacher.
    Who is talking about disobedience? Have you read anything I said? WHy are you so focused on disobedience?



    It is written disobedience is like witchcraft, and stubborness is idolatry.

    If you believe the commandments of God are to be overlooked just becasue we are saved by grace, you are terribly in error, great error.
    lolol. So you believe we are sanctified by law. Thats what I thought. So tell me, why do you not come to christ?

    That is the problem with people. They want to look to the law. And think that they are ok. News flash my friend. If your just looking to commands to see how good or sinful you are. You will never know.

    All you need to know. Is did you love people. Did you serve people. Did you do what you knew was right?

    If you did not do these things, You have sinned, even if you did not break one of the commands. The commands are not given to show you how to be good. Or to be righteous, they are weak in that area, because they are not complete. That is why Jesu did what he did in the sermon on the mount, By the letter of the law. You can never sleep with another woman, and you have obeyed the law.

    By the spirit of the letter (the law of love) if you look at a woman with lust, you have sinned. Y0ou can NOT KNOW that by following the law. It is not complete for that purpose. It’s ONLY purpose is to show you you are a sinner, and you are condemned, and lead you to christ.


    Just the one commandment alone of honoring God only when truly obeyed is obeying all of the commandments, but apparently you do not understand this.

    Again, no man is saved simply by obedience but by deliberate disobedience with the knowledge of Jeus Christ is trampling on His Blood.........learn of Jesus, not of me........and learn of Paul, not just what you decide to see.

    I am not talking about being saved, I am talking about christian growth and maturity. You keep telling my I do not know things, Yet hear yeti out are not even KNOWING what my discussion is about. You know what that is do you not? Ity is called being a hypocrite.

    I am talking about christian growth. How we are empowered to over come sin.

    As usual, as with all you lawyersa. All you want to talk about is disobedience. The fact is, You can obey the law 100 % and still be a sinner, because the lake can not show you every sin. IT WAS NOT GIVCEN TO DO THAT!
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    So do you believe saints are to Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith of Jesus?

    Where have I opposed you?
    My god.. why do we have to continue to go through this

    I am talking about HOW we obey the commands, is that too hard to understand?


    When have I EVER SAID it is ok to not obey God? Can you or JaumeJ show me one place where I have ever said it is ok to live in sin?
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    EG first of all, cut the lol's (laughing out loud). The subject of the Blood of Jesus Christ is no laughing matter, and as your teacher has taught all, we are to always be of sober mind.

    You seem to pass on only what pleses you of Paul's writings, but omit the lion's portion.
    From the Mouth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, or do you call Him Yeshua?
    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by JaumeJ View Post
    EG first of all, cut the lol's (laughing out loud). The subject of the Blood of Jesus Christ is no laughing matter, and as your teacher has taught all, we are to always be of sober mind.

    You seem to pass on only what pleses you of Paul's writings, but omit the lion's portion.
    we have been going at this for years now. Yet you still evidently think I believe it is ok to be disobedient, and it is ok to sin.

    So forgive me if I have to LOL every time we go through this. What else should I do.

    Again, I am discussing HOW we have power over sin, did you even read what I posted? Here let me help you.


    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    so what is improper use of the law!


    1. we keep the law to earn Gods acceptance (justification)


    Gal 2: 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

    2. We keep the law in order to help us mature in Christ (Sanctification)

    Rom 6: 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
    Rom 7: 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.


    These 2 false applications of the law which as paul says is confidently taught by false teachers, (they actually believe and are confident they are right). is devastating to church growth, individual growth and as a church we need to stand against them.

    1 Paul makes it clearl it is under grace we have power over sin, not law. The law will not make us good people, grace will

    2. We serve god in a new way, by the spirit, not the letter (law)

    Today, many call this false teaching legalism.
    legalism states

    1. we are righteous because we are good, thus we do not need certain things

    2. we are bad, thus we do not reserve certain things. so why bother

    what does Paul tell us we SHOULD focus on instead?!


    12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful,
    Notice, God enabled Paul not because he obeyed the law and was righteous, but because of his faith!
    putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

    Paul is saying instead of focusing on laws, genealogies and fables, focus on Gods grace

    1. God came to save sinners


    2. He is chief of all sinners

    3. because of grace, Paul is enables to do what God wanted him to do. which was to be an apostle, God empowers us in all things, by grace, and mercy, not by works, he enables us and strengthens us.

    Rom 11: 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

    Grace and works are opposed to each other, one cancels the other out, it can not be both it has to be one or the other.
    2 Tim 4: 18 And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!

    Eph 3 20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

    Paul is telling us to appreciate Gods grace, and thanksgiving. These, unlike law will have positive effects on the church and individuals

    1. it is contagious

    2. it produces humility (as opposed to self-righteousness, which come from following the law)

    3. it rekindles our passion to serve others, as we remember remember how God serves and is serving us, who are undeserving based on our personal righteousness

    4. It gives us strength and empowers us to forgive and love others.
    in review, grace build us up,

    Act 20:32 “So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

    where the law gives us a false sense of entitlement, or a can lead to and a false sense of unworthiness.

    this is a serious subject, i hope we can discuss this freely and openly, while at the same time learn how a false interpretation of the law can only destroy and divide us, it will never edify us.
    So there. Can you show me what I am trying to say, or show me how you disagree with my conclusions? And can you show me where I am talking about disobedience, or saying disobedience is ok?
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    see, here is a thing with any form of Hebrew roots- they really do not believe Paul. ( Paul was hand-picked by Christ to take the Gospel to the gentiles, which is curious because according to the judizers , the gentiles had the Mosaic Law. they did not of course, but why let historical facts get in the way of deception?).

    so, the next time I get attacked for saying that some do not believe the words of Paul, I will refer them back here, where it is clearly admitted.

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Shame on you. Shame on you. You are a disgrace to this forum twisting words, inventing meanings towhat others post, shame on you.

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Who is talking about disobedience? Have you read anything I said? WHy are you so focused on disobedience?





    lolol. So you believe we are sanctified by law. Thats what I thought. So tell me, why do you not come to christ?

    That is the problem with people. They want to look to the law. And think that they are ok. News flash my friend. If your just looking to commands to see how good or sinful you are. You will never know.

    All you need to know. Is did you love people. Did you serve people. Did you do what you knew was right?

    If you did not do these things, You have sinned, even if you did not break one of the commands. The commands are not given to show you how to be good. Or to be righteous, they are weak in that area, because they are not complete. That is why Jesu did what he did in the sermon on the mount, By the letter of the law. You can never sleep with another woman, and you have obeyed the law.

    By the spirit of the letter (the law of love) if you look at a woman with lust, you have sinned. Y0ou can NOT KNOW that by following the law. It is not complete for that purpose. It’s ONLY purpose is to show you you are a sinner, and you are condemned, and lead you to christ.





    I am not talking about being saved, I am talking about christian growth and maturity. You keep telling my I do not know things, Yet hear yeti out are not even KNOWING what my discussion is about. You know what that is do you not? Ity is called being a hypocrite.

    I am talking about christian growth. How we are empowered to over come sin.

    As usual, as with all you lawyersa. All you want to talk about is disobedience. The fact is, You can obey the law 100 % and still be a sinner, because the lake can not show you every sin. IT WAS NOT GIVCEN TO DO THAT!
    From the Mouth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, or do you call Him Yeshua?
    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by JaumeJ View Post
    Shame on you. Shame on you. You are a disgrace to this forum twisting words, inventing meanings towhat others post, shame on you.
    shame on you for not believing Paul.
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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by JaumeJ View Post
    Shame on you. Shame on you. You are a disgrace to this forum twisting words, inventing meanings towhat others post, shame on you.

    Welp. You just judged me, as you always do.

    Can you back your words.

    This gets old dude. You always do this. You never answer questions, then you judge without actual proof.

    Will you respond to what I said. Or prove yet once again, you have nothing. And are just attacking me for whatever reason?
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Paul exposes false application of the law

    Quote Originally Posted by gb9 View Post
    shame on you for not believing Paul.

    I do not know why there are a few people which will never respond and show others where they are wrong, and when they are confronted for it (like here, where I asked him to show where I was speaking it was ok to be disobedient, when my context was HOW WE ARE EMPOWERED TO BE OBEDIENT, then they revert to silly attacks.
    gb9, dcontroversal and mailmandan like this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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