Paul exposes false application of the law

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Grandpa

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you asked me this in 'private' and my answer is YES; my Husband and i would do anything!,
that we know/believe would be pleasing to our Holy Saviour, as a gesture of our Love and Adoration,
Thankfulness for His Holy Sacrifice...
I think this is the natural reaction for everyone who loves the Lord.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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In Paul’s letter to timothy he exposes those who are taking the law out of context, and trying to add it to The Christian way of life.


1 Tim 1: 3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia—remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.



Notice, Paul wants timothy to remain in Ephesus to expose and teach men who are teaching strange doctrines, instead of furthering the Administration of God, focusing instead on Faith and love. Instead o focusing on myth on myths and genealogies, which lead to speculations, instead of truth. And who were these men?


6 For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.


These are men who are attempting to teach the law, however, they are only making assertions, which are not true, for they do not understand the law, even though they make confident assertions what they teach is true.

Then paul tells Timothy (and us) what the law is really about.


8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,


It is only Good if it is used according to the rules and guidelines for which it was originally intended. In other words. Taking the law out of context. Using it outside of its original intended purpose, Makes the law not a good thing, But a Bad thing. According to paul, it causes division and destroys godly edification. And does not lead to truth. Which is never a good thing.


9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate,


first. Paul goes on to who was the law written for?


1. The righteous, Who are the righteous, according to Paul?


Phil 3: 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

1. It is of faith only, Not by following some law, so just because someone may be obeying the law and doing what the law says, does not mean they are righteous.


2. It is something given, not something done, or earned


3. It is made for sinners,


2 Cor 5: 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


It is something given, based on what Christ did on the cross.


Rom 3: 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,


1. again, not of the law


2. it is given to all who believe


3. no one is righteous by being obedient all have sinned and fall short.


4. it is freely paid for by the redeeming act of Christ.


Conclusion, the law is not for true Christians, who were given righteousness by being redeemed, it is given only for sinners

1 john 3:7 "let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.


you cant really argue with John i would think. whopever does what is right is righteous whoever does what is sinful is of the devil. its not easy to hear....but theres no reason to think John is wrong. and notice hes not saying it doesnt matter what you do, but what you do determines righteousness and sin. what you do, comes from what you believe.

no one is righteous by being obedient all have sinned and fall short.


thats the issue Jesus came to solve its why we have romans 6-8 and are taught we died with Jesus, and are raised again to a new life to live right. because we in christ, ARE NOT sinners, we sinned before but when you repent of sinning and turn to the Lord, you do not remain a sinner but are forgiven and reconciled, birn again healed.

you are neglecting the fact that paul teaches " you are not who you were" you are no longer slaves to sin" " you are new creations created in Christ TO DO THE GOOD WORKS prepared fpr you" " we all used to live as the gentiles in thier sinful ways, but now you are children of God, born again to be like God in true righteousnes and holiness" people need to understand the power of the gospel changes the person who believes it from the rebellious sinner, to the one who is able to live right without it being a greivance to do so 1 john 5:2-3. we change through faith. we are conformed into Jesus image not the other way aropund we dont conform the world to our image. righteous is, as righteous does




its true that the LAW judges all men under sin, thats exactly why we have to die to the flesh and walk in the spirit. why paul teaches us to : put to death the misdeeds of the body and live" born again children of God, are not sinners, you will not find a single reference calling them sinners. righteousness is defined simply by what you do.

1 john 3:Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 
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eternally-gratefull

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1 john 3:7 "let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.


you cant really argue with John i would think. whopever does what is right is righteous whoever does what is sinful is of the devil. its not easy to hear....but theres no reason to think John is wrong. and notice hes not saying it doesnt matter what you do, but what you do determines righteousness and sin. what you do, comes from what you believe.

no one is righteous by being obedient all have sinned and fall short.


thats the issue Jesus came to solve its why we have romans 6-8 and are taught we died with Jesus, and are raised again to a new life to live right. because we in christ, ARE NOT sinners, we sinned before but when you repent of sinning and turn to the Lord, you do not remain a sinner but are forgiven and reconciled, birn again healed.

you are neglecting the fact that paul teaches " you are not who you were" you are no longer slaves to sin" " you are new creations created in Christ TO DO THE GOOD WORKS prepared fpr you" " we all used to live as the gentiles in thier sinful ways, but now you are children of God, born again to be like God in true righteousnes and holiness" people need to understand the power of the gospel changes the person who believes it from the rebellious sinner, to the one who is able to live right without it being a greivance to do so 1 john 5:2-3. we change through faith. we are conformed into Jesus image not the other way aropund we dont conform the world to our image. righteous is, as righteous does




its true that the LAW judges all men under sin, thats exactly why we have to die to the flesh and walk in the spirit. why paul teaches us to : put to death the misdeeds of the body and live" born again children of God, are not sinners, you will not find a single reference calling them sinners. righteousness is defined simply by what you do.

1 john 3:Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

It is obvious you did not read a word of the quote you responded to.

I said nothing about anything you inferred. Please read what I wrote again, and then re-respond with what paul thinks gives us power and true victory over sin.
 

Studyman

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It is obvious you did not read a word of the quote you responded to.

I said nothing about anything you inferred. Please read what I wrote again, and then re-respond with what paul thinks gives us power and true victory over sin.

How does transgressing God's Commandments by doctrines and traditions of man give us victory over sin?
 
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eternally-gratefull

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How does transgressing God's Commandments by doctrines and traditions of man give us victory over sin?
Who said it did. And who is promoting transgressing Gods commands. Again, this just proves you have not read a word I have said. Do you want to continue with this nonsense, and continue to make yourself look like you do.

Or Do you want to discuss our true differences, and try to learn from each other?

You can not teach a person when you do not even comprehend what they are trying to say. And they can not share with you what they are really trying to say when you continue to ignore them. And continue with your false view of their belief system.
 

Studyman

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Who said it did. And who is promoting transgressing Gods commands. Again, this just proves you have not read a word I have said. Do you want to continue with this nonsense, and continue to make yourself look like you do.

Or Do you want to discuss our true differences, and try to learn from each other?

You can not teach a person when you do not even comprehend what they are trying to say. And they can not share with you what they are really trying to say when you continue to ignore them. And continue with your false view of their belief system.
Is creating images of God after the likeness of man and creating "Feasts unto the Lord" to worship of this image a Transgression of God's Commandments by mans doctrines and traditions?

I'm not saying you are doing this, I'm asking you the question.
 

Hizikyah

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Is the intent of the Law not to also show us what love is?

Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Is creating images of God after the likeness of man and creating "Feasts unto the Lord" to worship of this image a Transgression of God's Commandments by mans doctrines and traditions?

I'm not saying you are doing this, I'm asking you the question.

I have no idea how this has any application to our discussion.

What does this have to do with the power that enables us to OVERCOME sin, and become obedient to God, fulfill the law in our life?

 
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eternally-gratefull

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Is the intent of the Law not to also show us what love is?

Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."




1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."


1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."



Thats not what Paul said.

He said the intent of the law was to keep us in check until Christ came/. In order to lead us to christ.

Jesu ssaid love is how we fulfill the law. Not the other way around


How can the law teach us to love? The law can tell us if we have broken certain commands, that is about all it can do. Why can you not see this?

The law says thou shalt not murder. How can that tell me how to love? A non believer can not murder. Yet we are told they can not love (spiritual love spoken of in the NT all they can do is show human love)
 

Hizikyah

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Thats not what Paul said.

He said the intent of the law was to keep us in check until Christ came/. In order to lead us to christ.

Jesu ssaid love is how we fulfill the law. Not the other way around


How can the law teach us to love? The law can tell us if we have broken certain commands, that is about all it can do. Why can you not see this?

The law says thou shalt not murder. How can that tell me how to love? A non believer can not murder. Yet we are told they can not love (spiritual love spoken of in the NT all they can do is show human love)
and the Messiah said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."


[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]
 
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eternally-gratefull

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and the Messiah said:

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."


Tell me where I said otherwise? I love you bid, but this constant refusal to understand what other people are saying is really getting tiresome.

Why can you not lisaten to people and fine out why you continue to bear false witness about what they are saying or what they believe. Have you no conscious?


Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”


John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”


Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Again, Who is the person who said we do not have to obey Gods commands?

And again, Why do you continue to harass people with your continued insistence to preach they do not teach things they do? Why do you refuse to even try to understand?
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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Is the intent of the Law not to also show us what love is?

Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."




1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."


1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."


Did you know that the Narrow Gate is the Lord Jesus Christ and not the 10 commandments???
 

Studyman

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I have no idea how this has any application to our discussion.

What does this have to do with the power that enables us to OVERCOME sin, and become obedient to God, fulfill the law in our life?

It’s a simple question
 
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eternally-gratefull

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It’s a simple question
So is my op do you want to talk about what Paul said to Timothy about what God gives us to have power over sin and grow in christ or not?
 

mailmandan

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Did you know that the Narrow Gate is the Lord Jesus Christ and not the 10 commandments???
Amen brother! None of us have perfectly obeyed the 10 commandments (Romans 3:23). That gate is so narrow that only the Lord Jesus Christ can get through it, yet there is hope THROUGH JESUS CHRIST and not through the 10 commandments (Romans 6:23).

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant -- not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

John 10:9 - Jesus said, "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
 
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sabbath is coming soon guys. be careful not to lose ur salvation.
situation will then go from bad to worse. its the dreadful sunday. the mark of the beast day. oh oh. gotta be careful.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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sabbath is coming soon guys. be careful not to lose ur salvation.
situation will then go from bad to worse. its the dreadful sunday. the mark of the beast day. oh oh. gotta be careful.
It blows my mind that certain people actually believe such a ludicrous doctrine! :eek:

"One class will advocate a gospel of human devisings and will worship the beast and his image... The other class, in marked contrast, will live by the true gospel and 'keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus' (Rev. 14:9,12)...those who reject God's memorial of creatorship--the Bible Sabbath--choosing to worship and honor Sunday...will receive the mark of the beast. :rolleyes:

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast
 
Jun 5, 2017
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It blows my mind that certain people actually believe such a ludicrous doctrine! :eek:

"One class will advocate a gospel of human devisings and will worship the beast and his image... The other class, in marked contrast, will live by the true gospel and 'keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus' (Rev. 14:9,12)...those who reject God's memorial of creatorship--the Bible Sabbath--choosing to worship and honor Sunday...will receive the mark of the beast. :rolleyes:

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast
And yet who will be standing on the day of judgement? Those that point people to the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God or those that through faith and LOVE follow him who LOVES all?

God's Saints who are described by God as............

Revelation 14,
12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are THEY THAT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

or ............

Revelation 22
14, BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS,
<WHY?> that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. <Who are outside?>
15, For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers , and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. <YEP Seems like we are talking about God's Law>

a warning to God's people...........

1 Peter 5
8, Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour:

Who is it that the devil is seeking to devour....................

Revelation 12
17,
And the dragon <Satan Rev 12:9> was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the REMNANT OF HER SEED, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Only those who believe and follow God's Word will be standing on the great day of God's Judgement......

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. UNBELIEVERS have no part in the Kingdom of Heaven.

God has many of His followers in all the Churches living up to all the knowledge that God has given them. Many do not know about God's 4th commandment and have been taught by the teachings and traditions of man to disregard it despite there being NO SCRIPTURE in ALL of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a HOLY day.

Jesus says he has followers in many places....

John 10
16,
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

God is calling his people wherever they may be to follow him according to His Word in truth....

John 4
23,
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him.
24, God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Many people do not know that they are not following God according to His 7th Day Sabbath commandment and as such God is patient with them until he reveals the truth of His Word to them.....

Some scriptures that are important..........

Acts 17
30,
And the TIMES OF IGNORANCE GOD WINKS AT; BUT NOW <When a KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH comes> COMMANDS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT:
31, Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

and again...............

James 4
17,
THEREFORE TO HIM THE KNOWS TO DO GOOD AND DOES IT NOT TO HIM IT IS SIN.

We are God's people if we are living up to all the light (truth) God has revealed to us and if God has given each of us a KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH we are accountable to God not only for the truth God has revealed to us but also what it is we do with the truth God has given to us.

When a KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH is shared with someone however and they do not BELIEVE it or ACCEPT it they are NO Longer a BELIEVER because they hare not BELIEVED the Word of God therefore are still in their SINS because they have NOT accepted the GIFT of God's dear son and these scriptures are now a WARNING........

Hebrews 10:26-27
26,
For IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

You are correct many do not know that the Roman Catholic Church has changed God's 4th commandment from the 7th day of the week to Sunday the 1st day of the Week.

Those that God has revealed his truth have a duty of LOVE to our neighbor to help them come out of darkness to worship our God in Spirit and in truth. For God is a Spirit and those that worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth.

The important thing however is that you always pray and ask Jesus what His truth is so you can know God's Word for yourself. If you SEEK Jesus for His truth asking Him in prayer then he will lead you and guide you and promises to teach you so you can know the truth and the truth can set you free...

This is God's promise to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW His Word and why Jesus says; If you LOVE me Keep my commandments because it is by FAITH that you will find HIM who LOVES all.

Revelations 22
14,
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15, For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten ( Exodus 20:8-11 ) If we break any one of the ten we stand guilty before God of SIN (James 2:8-11) and need to repent and seek his forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9). Those that continue a life in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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Galatians 3:11-12
[FONT=&quot]11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.[/FONT]