Paul exposes false application of the law

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Dec 9, 2011
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#81
Really? No one can Love GOD or their neighbour? I agree that before conversion the ole flesh will lead you to sin.. but the Spirit.. it allows us to Love because we are Loved First and through believing we recieve the Spirit.. yes unto good works ordained by GOD.


To be in Christ is to believe and Christ Himself teaches us to Keep the Commandments.. So you are in unbelief.. but you will continue believing you have a free pass rather than a New Spirit that can keep the law through Faith.. and Faith is made perfect by works.. what works? Go read and Believe and may you be set free... For I believe the Lord and will do do above all of your doubts..


So we are under Grace set free.. what will you choose to do in your Liberty in Christ.. hear and do or hear and doubt.,
I don't think read my post honestly by the way you responded but I digress.

So we are under Grace set free.. what will you choose to do in your Liberty in Christ.. hear and do or hear and doubt.,
Yes we are under Grace and because of the mercies of GOD I will present my body(which Is a member of the body of CHRIST) a living sacrifice which Is only reasonable and continue to renew my mind proving(receiving sustenance from the vine)what Is that good and acceptable and perfect will of GOD.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#82
There you go again.

Where am I saying paul or Jesus or anyone is saying it is ok to not keep the commandments.

This gets old. How can we think we can even start to discuss anything if we are not even on the same page.

Once again, My op is not bout how to be disobedient, or if it is ok or not.

it is how we have the power to obedient. Do you disagree with me or not. And if you do. What part do you disagree with.

This nonsens of disobedience is not in context or in the discussion,. Any further responses of anything to do with disobedience will from hence forth be ignored.

Stick on topic. Or do not expect to be responded to.

What does your last line pertain to the Deeds of the law?.. for I was never a partaker of the Old that condemned me.. I have only known the New wine... and my belief is the New wine is having GOD’s Law wrote in our hearts and our minds through Believing the Lord’s Testament.. which I attest to and witness of having happened.. as many do who believe.. the Sabbath seems to divide some Yet I abase myself and stick to what I receive and Trust in GOD.. I’m not going to judge.. I share my beliefs and that is looking to the Author and Finisher of my Faith.. I love and obey my Lord but really only do what I’m told even if it puts me at odds.. for I know not all things but Trust in GOD who knows all things...

My belief is Paul teaches us to Keep the Commandments Yet speaks much against those under the law who persist on circumcising etc.. those that despise our Liberty in Christ... for we are Free and will not be put in bondage.. for we Live by Faith..
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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#83
I don't think read my post honestly by the way you responded but I digress.


Yes we are under Grace and because of the mercies of GOD I will present my body(which Is a member of the body of CHRIST) a living sacrifice which Is only reasonable and continue to renew my mind proving(receiving sustenance from the vine)what Is that good and acceptable and perfect will of GOD.

Please do not not say I don’t read your posts honestly.. now we can all need more depths and sometimes an elaboration will clear and clarify what we do not always pick up..

In reply to what you write.. you offer your body as a living sacrifice? Please elaborate?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#84
Please do not not say I don’t read your posts honestly.. now we can all need more depths and sometimes an elaboration will clear and clarify what we do not always pick up..

In reply to what you write.. you offer your body as a living sacrifice? Please elaborate?
Displaying spiritual fruit receiving sustenance from the vine like smiling sincerely at someone caring about their well being,like mowing someone's grass that you know are by themselves and not needing a thank you although It would be appreciated.

Love GOD and love your neighbor.Are you starting to understand what I mean by JESUS the vine and we are the branches receiving sustenance from the vine.

I'm saying JESUS supplies me and I make my body be submissive to HIS will.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#85
Many here are being quite silly about a very important point. Paul is addressing various assemblies with verious problems interpreting the Word as needed for each assembly.

If you indeed have these same problems then you need to study Paul in depth, however if you are learned of Jesus Christ, you have no need to be wading through the problems others have experienced as thought they are yours. If you indeed hav the same, by all means wade through them.

It is easiest to learn by invitation of Jesus Christ for His yoke is easy, His burden is lght....
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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#86
Displaying spiritual fruit receiving sustenance from the vine like smiling sincerely at someone caring about their well being,like mowing someone's grass that you know are by themselves and not needing a thank you although It would be appreciated.

Love GOD and love your neighbor.Are you starting to understand what I mean by JESUS the vine and we are the branches receiving sustenance from the vine.

I'm saying JESUS supplies me and I make my body be submissive to HIS will.
You create your own idea of good.. we are talking about Faith in Christ and doing what He teaches us is good.. for many unbelievers do those things you equate.. it is what we do through our Faith in Christ.. and He teaches us to Keep the Commandments of GOD.. He teaches us to Love.. now what does GOD state those that Love Him Keep? Yet we were carnal and dead in our tresspasses until we were born again of the Holy Spirit.. through Faith by the Grace of GOD..now set free.. Faith made perfect by works.. so our foundation must be Christ’s Testimony..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#88
What does your last line pertain to the Deeds of the law?.. for I was never a partaker of the Old that condemned me.. I have only known the New wine... and my belief is the New wine is having GOD’s Law wrote in our hearts and our minds through Believing the Lord’s Testament.. which I attest to and witness of having happened.. as many do who believe.. the Sabbath seems to divide some Yet I abase myself and stick to what I receive and Trust in GOD.. I’m not going to judge.. I share my beliefs and that is looking to the Author and Finisher of my Faith.. I love and obey my Lord but really only do what I’m told even if it puts me at odds.. for I know not all things but Trust in GOD who knows all things...

My belief is Paul teaches us to Keep the Commandments Yet speaks much against those under the law who persist on circumcising etc.. those that despise our Liberty in Christ... for we are Free and will not be put in bondage.. for we Live by Faith..

Do what? Where do you come up with this stuff?

Can you ever stay on topic?

Paul teaches us how to grow in grace, and how to have power over sin, and how to have victory.

It is not by keeping the law.

Circumcision> again where does that come from? I never even mentioned it, yet you keep bringing it up. Why?

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#89
Obviously you have not ready my posting....or worse........
Practice what you preach. It isa obvious you have done what you just said someone else was guilty of.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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#90
Obviously you have not ready my posting....or worse........
you know, I did not agree with a lot of your theology, Hebrew roots is garbage, but I respected you as an elder. but when you say things like " if one truly understands Christ, you do not really need Paul " I just lost all of it.

to say or imply that " deep " believers can just toss out over half of the New Testament, because they do not need it is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard.


I guess that has nothing to do with Paul teaching extensively about not being saved by the Law , not coming from a guy with a menorah as his avatar. no agenda there, no way.

yes, I read your posts. I perfectly understand what you and the other Hebrew roots, or what ever you call yourself, are trying to do. rip out and discredit anything that points to Jesus and the cross for salvation. that is what you are doing. shameful.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#91
It is odd you do not agree with my "theology" since i CONSISTENTLY POST TO LEARN OF jESUS cHRIST and all will be well.

I also consistently post that I have no denomination other than what Jesus Christ teaches...that being the faith of Abraham.

As for reading certain posts thoroughly I do the same with them as I do with tasting a beverage, if it is bitter and nxious, I stop there.........

God is good all of the time. It would be unloving of me to coddle the likes of what I have seen in these posts. Whereas what I post is truly from the Word and not my interpretation rather repeating what it teaches from the Master.

It may hurt to hear the truth, but it must be revealed always.........Jesus Christ is Lord and god,amen.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,641
6,276
113
#92
It is odd you do not agree with my "theology" since i CONSISTENTLY POST TO LEARN OF jESUS cHRIST and all will be well.

I also consistently post that I have no denomination other than what Jesus Christ teaches...that being the faith of Abraham.

As for reading certain posts thoroughly I do the same with them as I do with tasting a beverage, if it is bitter and nxious, I stop there.........

God is good all of the time. It would be unloving of me to coddle the likes of what I have seen in these posts. Whereas what I post is truly from the Word and not my interpretation rather repeating what it teaches from the Master.

It may hurt to hear the truth, but it must be revealed always.........Jesus Christ is Lord and god,amen.
2nd Peter 3 v.14-18. might want to read that. oh, let me guess- " real ",understanding Christians do not need to read Peter.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#93
Oh how they hate you Law Father... and will seek any way to disregard it and accuse it.

Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"

Jeremiah 6:16, “Thus said YHWH, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves. But they said, ‘We do not walk in it.”

They make accusations aginst it, but your Maeeish says because people turn a deaf ear to it the earth grows lovless

Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."

Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Your disciples tell us it is the standard of love;

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

It is in our hearts Father, for you have placed it there;

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Romans 2:15, "Who show the work of the Torah written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing (condemming sin) or even excusing (justifying sin)."

for it is the true standard of love

1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Romans 13:8-10, "Owe no one any matter except to love (#G26)one another, for he who loves another has filled the Torah. For this, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet, and if there is any other (#G2087 ) command, it is summed up (#G346) up in this word, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no evil to a neighbor. Therefore, love is completion of the Torah."

We know you Law is a light to us:

Proverbs 6:23, “For the command is a lamp, And the Torah a light, And reproofs of discipline a way of life.”

because it is on our hearts we love it;

Psalms 111:7-10, “The works of His hands are truth and right-ruling, All His orders are trustworthy, They are upheld forever and ever, Performed in truth and straightness. He sent redemption to His people, He has commanded His covenant forever. Set-apart and awesome is His Name. The fear of יהוה is the beginning of wisdom, Shin All those doing them have a good understanding. His praise is standing forever.”

it is more precious than gold to us;

Psalm 19:7-11, “The Torah of יהוה is perfect, bringing back the being; The witness of יהוה is trustworthy, making wise the simple; The orders of יהוה are straight, rejoicing the heart; The command of יהוה is clear, enlightening the eyes; The fear of יהוה is clean, standing forever; The right-rulings of יהוה are true, They are righteous altogether, More desirable than gold, Than much fine gold; And sweeter than honey and the honeycomb. Also, Your servant is warned by them, In guarding them there is great reward.”

yet the dragon is greatly angered by those who love your Law and many stand in the way and accuse any who seek to follow you in it;

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."

we care not because we know you are the mighty One;

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah(Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their revilings.”

Deuteronomy 32:4, “The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are right-ruling, A Mighty One of truth and without unrighteousness, Righteous and straight is He.”

We know you have founded it forever and it wil stand fast with your Messiah, we know you do not change Father;

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; ‘You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast withHim. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

We do not make excxuses or self justify

Romans 2:15, "Who show the work of the Torah written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing (condemming sin) or even excusing (justifying sin)."

2 Timothy 4:3-4, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears, and they will turn away their ears from the truth, and be turned to fables.”

we know we are not perfect and wed approacdh You for mercy and Your mercy is great beyond our understanding, in this we boast greatly;

1 John 1:8-10, “If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.”

Jeremiah 9:23-26, “Thus said יהוה, “Let not the wise boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty boast in his might, nor let the rich boast in his riches, but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am יהוה, doing loving-commitment, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight,” declares יהוה, “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall punish all circumcised with the uncircumcised; Mitsrayim, and Yehuḏah, and Eḏom, and the children of Ammon, and Mo’aḇ, and all those trimmed on the edges, who dwell in the wilderness. For all the nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Yisra’ĕl are uncircumcised in heart!”

Your love for us makes us want to love you even more, and we seek to submit to what you say is love, not our imagination, but we know in You is all things right;

1 John 4:19, "We love Him because He first loved us."


Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which YHWH has prepared for those who love Him."

John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”
 
Sep 14, 2017
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#94
we have been going at this for years now. Yet you still evidently think I believe it is ok to be disobedient, and it is ok to sin.

So forgive me if I have to LOL every time we go through this. What else should I do.

Again, I am discussing HOW we have power over sin, did you even read what I posted? Here let me help you.


So there. Can you show me what I am trying to say, or show me how you disagree with my conclusions? And can you show me where I am talking about disobedience, or saying disobedience is ok?
It seems to me that you teach directly or indirectly that sin no longer matters in regard to salvation, that it's no longer mandatory to confess sin or repent of sin.
Did I get that right? If not, please explain it to me.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#95
Malachi 2:17, “You have wearied יהוה with your words, and you have said, “In what way have we wearied Him?” In that you say, “Everyone who does evil is good in the eyes of יהוה, and He is delighting in them,” or, “Where is the Master of right-ruling?”



Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
 
Nov 6, 2017
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#96
How about both (provided we understand what the term "Law" means in this context). A Christian is sanctified as he seeks to walk in the Spirit, and in practical terms that means as he seeks to apply the Law of Christ -- the Law of Love -- in his daily interactions with God and with men. But what is the Law of Christ, other than the Ten Commandments, which are called "the Law" in the epistle to the Romans? So it is grace that directs the Christian to apply the Law and thus be sanctified. There is no conflict whatsoever. The Bible says that the Law is spiritual, so who are we to dispute that?

The Antinomians falsely believe that the Law has no bearing on Christian behavior. That is utter nonsense, since God Himself has said that when He makes the New Covenant, He will write His laws in the hearts and minds of His people.
Which Law are you talking about N6? The Mosaic Law? or the Law of Christ[love God, love others and Love yourself]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#97
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Thessalonians 2:6-12, "For the mystery of iniquity is already working, but the One restraining him will continue to restrain him, until he is made to appear in the midst. And then that lawless one will be revealed, whom Yahshua will remove with the breath of His mouth, and make powerless with the appearance of His coming-- Whose coming is according to the energy of Satan, who works with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of sin in those who are perishing, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason, YHWH will send them strong delusion, that they would believe the deception, In order that all those may be judged as not having believed the truth, but as having delighted in sin."[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]mystery” is word # G3466 - Mustérion, Strong's Concordance, mustérion: a mystery or secret doctrine, Original Word: μυστήριον, ου, τό, Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter, Transliteration: mustérion, Phonetic Spelling: (moos-tay'-ree-on), Short Definition: anything hidden, a mystery, Definition: a mystery, secret, of which initiation is necessary; in the NT: the counsels of God, once hidden but now revealed in the Gospel or some fact thereof; the Christian revelation generally; particular truths or details of the Christian revelation.[/FONT]




—[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon) From a derivative of μύω [[muo]] (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):—mystery.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]iniquity” is word # G458 - anomia Strong's Concordance, lawlessness, Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness[/FONT]
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,703
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#98
You create your own idea of good.. we are talking about Faith in Christ and doing what He teaches us is good.. for many unbelievers do those things you equate.. it is what we do through our Faith in Christ.. and He teaches us to Keep the Commandments of GOD.. H:confused:e teaches us to Love.. now what does GOD state those that Love Him Keep? Yet we were carnal and dead in our tresspasses until we were born again of the Holy Spirit.. through Faith by the Grace of GOD..now set free.. Faith made perfect by works.. so our foundation must be Christ’s Testimony..
Yes,many do these things which Is a good thing but you ask the question and I gave you enough to understand when you ask me to expound on fruit of the Spirit,now you want to switch back again.

And when you say keep the commandments,are you talking about the ten commandments under law that GOD gave to Moses or are you talking about the two commandments given by JESUS?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,641
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#99
I do not hate God's law. but we are not saved by keeping it. the law was t tutor, lit. a harsh schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. you guys have it backward. you say that Christ is here to take us back to the Law, which gentiles were never under.

this is in reference to post #93
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Oh how they hate you Law Father... and will seek any way to disregard it and accuse it.

Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"

Jeremiah 6:16, “Thus said YHWH, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves. But they said, ‘We do not walk in it.”

They make accusations aginst it, but your Maeeish says because people turn a deaf ear to it the earth grows lovless

Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."

Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Your disciples tell us it is the standard of love;

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

It is in our hearts Father, for you have placed it there;

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Romans 2:15, "Who show the work of the Torah written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing (condemming sin) or even excusing (justifying sin)."

for it is the true standard of love

1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Romans 13:8-10, "Owe no one any matter except to love (#G26)one another, for he who loves another has filled the Torah. For this, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet, and if there is any other (#G2087 ) command, it is summed up (#G346) up in this word, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no evil to a neighbor. Therefore, love is completion of the Torah."

We know you Law is a light to us:

Proverbs 6:23, “For the command is a lamp, And the Torah a light, And reproofs of discipline a way of life.”

because it is on our hearts we love it;

Psalms 111:7-10, “The works of His hands are truth and right-ruling, All His orders are trustworthy, They are upheld forever and ever, Performed in truth and straightness. He sent redemption to His people, He has commanded His covenant forever. Set-apart and awesome is His Name. The fear of יהוה is the beginning of wisdom, Shin All those doing them have a good understanding. His praise is standing forever.”

it is more precious than gold to us;

Psalm 19:7-11, “The Torah of יהוה is perfect, bringing back the being; The witness of יהוה is trustworthy, making wise the simple; The orders of יהוה are straight, rejoicing the heart; The command of יהוה is clear, enlightening the eyes; The fear of יהוה is clean, standing forever; The right-rulings of יהוה are true, They are righteous altogether, More desirable than gold, Than much fine gold; And sweeter than honey and the honeycomb. Also, Your servant is warned by them, In guarding them there is great reward.”

yet the dragon is greatly angered by those who love your Law and many stand in the way and accuse any who seek to follow you in it;

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."

we care not because we know you are the mighty One;

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah(Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their revilings.”

Deuteronomy 32:4, “The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are right-ruling, A Mighty One of truth and without unrighteousness, Righteous and straight is He.”

We know you have founded it forever and it wil stand fast with your Messiah, we know you do not change Father;

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; ‘You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast withHim. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

We do not make excxuses or self justify

Romans 2:15, "Who show the work of the Torah written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing (condemming sin) or even excusing (justifying sin)."

2 Timothy 4:3-4, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears, and they will turn away their ears from the truth, and be turned to fables.”

we know we are not perfect and wed approacdh You for mercy and Your mercy is great beyond our understanding, in this we boast greatly;

1 John 1:8-10, “If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.”

Jeremiah 9:23-26, “Thus said יהוה, “Let not the wise boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty boast in his might, nor let the rich boast in his riches, but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am יהוה, doing loving-commitment, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight,” declares יהוה, “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall punish all circumcised with the uncircumcised; Mitsrayim, and Yehuḏah, and Eḏom, and the children of Ammon, and Mo’aḇ, and all those trimmed on the edges, who dwell in the wilderness. For all the nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Yisra’ĕl are uncircumcised in heart!”

Your love for us makes us want to love you even more, and we seek to submit to what you say is love, not our imagination, but we know in You is all things right;

1 John 4:19, "We love Him because He first loved us."


Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which YHWH has prepared for those who love Him."

John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”
now your being a false accuser.

we do not hate the law. We just hate the false application of the law

do you want to discuss what I wrote in the op or not?