Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

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E

Enow

Banned
#101
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
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0
#101
heartofdavid said:
No sir
Not every believer is taken in the rapture.
" ...pray that you be counted worthy..."
The rapture is not a salvation issue. Those departing are saved but that is a gimme.

The parable of the 10 virgins is a vivid picture of those unworthy.
All were virgins. IOW CLEAN and undefiled (saved),but only half were worthy.

Their unworthyness had to do with oil,not virginity
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One can confirm with Him if this application is just wherein the 5 foolish virgins out to the market seeking to be filled with the oil is why they were not being taken with the 5 prudent ones that knew they were filled since their salvation.

One can repent of that other calling and all other infillings by returning to their first love, rejecting everything by that second blessing, and testify of Him by the initial calling of the gospel as filled since salvation to be waiting as filled before the Bridegroom comes.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#102
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,374
113
#102
Enow said:
One can confirm with Him if this application is just wherein the 5 foolish virgins out to the market seeking to be filled with the oil is why they were not being taken with the 5 prudent ones that knew they were filled since their salvation.

One can repent of that other calling and all other infillings by returning to their first love, rejecting everything by that second blessing, and testify of Him by the initial calling of the gospel as filled since salvation to be waiting as filled before the Bridegroom comes.
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The five foolish virgins didn't have any oil to begin with. They didn't lose anything they previously had. There is no "returning to their first love" in this parallel.

It amazes me how devotion to a particular eschatology can so distort the interpretation of Scripture.
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
#103
#103
shrume said:
You should have read what I wrote. I was in no way claiming to be a perfect man. I'm a sinner, as is everyone.

There are no scripture that oppose the idea that every Christian will be gathered to Christ when he returns to gather his body. Enow's belief that some Christians will be left behind at the rapture is not biblical. Every Christian is a member of the body of Christ, and no member of that body will be left behind.
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Just the opposite.

Read the parable of the wedding guests.
Those invited REFUSED.
Others invited. CAME.
Still others,another group came also.

Your scenario is completely missing.
You made that dynamic up where Unwilling believers are taken to the wedding
 
G

garee

Banned
#104
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#104
So, please show me where in that post where I said or even mention that if someone doesn't believe in the "pre trb rapture that they will get left behind?"

What it does say is that, he is being deceived because he is not believing in the scripture that states that the Lord went to the Father's house to prepare places for us and that he will return and gather his church as he promised in John 14:1-3.
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The only thing that will be left behind is the smoke of the corrupted rudiments of this world. The whole event (the last trump, judgment day for the unbeliever and the second and final resurrectio) is ion e work n the twinkling of the eye, the last day

That place he was preparing was finished at the renting of the veil. It is the new heavenly Jerusalem the chaste virgin bride of Christ. She is coming down on the last day, the last trump, judgment day for the unbeliever the second and fail resurrection..

All believers up until the twinkling in the eye event, died not receiving the promise of their new incorruptible bodies.

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us “should not be made perfect” Heb 11:39

They will both (those asleep and those remaining when he does come in the twinkling of eye (not a literal thousand years of separation )

It will have nothing to do with corrupted flesh and blood running around .No literal thousand years.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory1Co 15:50

The idea of some be changed at one time and others at another time is not a biblical teaching.

No one knows what we will be like. We do know they will not be flesh and blood according to the old corrupted rudiments of this world. They will not be male or female, Jew nor gentile and like the angels no way to procreate..

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:26

In a spiritual sense we already are not to know each other after that seen, we are a new creation by faith waiting for the promised new bodies. They will have nothing to do with these earthen bodies of death, and even though some did know Christ after the temporal flesh for a one time demonstration we know him that way no more forever and ever. God is not a man as us.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Co 5:16

Those that are left reigning with Christ will also in that same twinkling of the eye receive their new bodies. The former things of this creation will not be remembered or ever come to mind forever and ever more. The last day, no need for the Sun and moon times keepers .Time has come to an end . No literal thousand years
 
E

Ellsworth1943

Guest
#105
#105
heartofdavid said:
No sir
Not every believer is taken in the rapture.
" ...pray that you be counted worthy..."
The rapture is not a salvation issue. Those departing are saved but that is a gimme.

The parable of the 10 virgins is a vivid picture of those unworthy.
All were virgins. IOW CLEAN and undefiled (saved),but only half were worthy.

Their unworthyness had to do with oil,not virginity
Click to expand...
The question must be asked-------Are you going or being left behind? Are you sure?
 
E

Enow

Banned
#106
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#106
Ellsworth1943 said:
The question must be asked-------Are you going or being left behind? Are you sure?
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More like, is there anything or any one in this world you cannot leave behind? If so, then pray that He will help you love Him more and set your hearts on the treasures above so as to escape what is coming on the earth.

That also includes leaning on Him as our Good Shepherd to help us lay aside every weight & sin to be received as that vessel unto honor in His House.
 
C

celib

Banned
#107
Jun 6, 2015
171
0
0
#107
Enow said:
Christ's physical body was changed and He had risen from the grave.

You do not get the dead rise in Christ first unless there is a physical resurrection for the dead as well.

The celestial body will be able to eat & drink with Jesus in the Kingdom of God.

Matthew 26:[SUP]29 [/SUP]But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
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The dead in Christ rise first because there dead and rose the second they died, Christ rose the second he died, he went to prison [hell] in those three days and gave the people there that have died since Adam an opportunity to accept him 1Pe.3:18-19. When the tribes of Israel fled Egypt they were fed mana in the desert, mana is angel food, celestial bodies do eat.
The bible says the flesh is made out of the dust and it will return to dust forever, flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven so what God did with his flesh body I don't know, but he couldn't leave it in the grave. God bless
 
E

Enow

Banned
#108
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#108
celib said:
The dead in Christ rise first because there dead and rose the second they died, Christ rose the second he died, he went to prison [hell] in those three days and gave the people there that have died since Adam an opportunity to accept him 1Pe.3:18-19. When the tribes of Israel fled Egypt they were fed mana in the desert, mana is angel food, celestial bodies do eat.
The bible says the flesh is made out of the dust and it will return to dust forever, flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven so what God did with his flesh body I don't know, but he couldn't leave it in the grave. God bless
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May God bless you in continuing to grow in the knowledge of Him as well.

We know the scripture testify that the living in Christ will change in a twinkling of an eye, and be taken up in the air to meet the dead in Christ that have risen first and the Lord, so in that sense, we can know.
 
S

shrume

Senior Member
#109
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
#109
heartofdavid said:
Just the opposite.

Read the parable of the wedding guests.
Those invited REFUSED.
Others invited. CAME.
Still others,another group came also.

Your scenario is completely missing.
You made that dynamic up where Unwilling believers are taken to the wedding
Click to expand...
The parable of the wedding guests has nothing to do with whether a Christian will be taken at the rapture. Christians are born again of the Holy Spirit. Every Christian will participate in the rapture.
 
S

shrume

Senior Member
#110
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
#110
celib said:
The dead in Christ rise first because there dead and rose the second they died
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That's not true. 1 Thes 4 says the dead in Christ will rise when Christ returns to gather his church.

Christ rose the second he died
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He was dead and in the grave for three days and three nights.

he went to prison [hell] in those three days
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He went to Tartarus after he was resurrected by the Father.

and gave the people there that have died since Adam an opportunity to accept him 1Pe.3:18-19.
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Jesus heralded his victory to the imprisoned devil spirits that caused all the evil durng the time of Noah.

When the tribes of Israel fled Egypt they were fed mana in the desert, mana is angel food, celestial bodies do eat.
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Nothing in the Bible says that manna is angel food. And yes, we will be able to eat in our resurrected bodies.

The bible says the flesh is made out of the dust and it will return to dust forever, flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven so what God did with his flesh body I don't know, but he couldn't leave it in the grave. God bless
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God resurrected Jesus in his own body.

Luke 24:
39) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40) And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
 
G

garee

Banned
#111
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#111
Originally Posted by Enow

Christ's physical body was changed and He had risen from the grave.

You do not get the dead rise in Christ first unless there is a physical resurrection for the dead as well.

The celestial body will be able to eat & drink with Jesus in the Kingdom of God.

Matthew 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Click to expand...
The dead are raised with their new spirit, spiritually no literal resurrection as that seen. They will not receive their new incorruptible bodies until the last day, the second and final resurrection. The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind. ..No need for the two time keepers the Sun and the moon.

In parables God does use the temporal things seen to represent the unseen eternal according to the prescription below,.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The graves as the bosom of Abraham (the invisible presence of God).were used like a holding pen as in a jail house until the judgement seat of Christ was applied . Crucify him, crucify him.

Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God. Mat 27:50

Those spirits that were in those old testament saints looked ahead suufering of Christ beforehand to the finished work of Christ. They experienced the unseen glory of entering the new Jerusalem prepared as His bride the church. Many angels witnessed it.

Again the prescription found in2Co 4:18 was applied so that we can walk by faith the unseen, eternal.

The veil as that seen represented the end of the demonstration of Christ pouring out his unseen Spirit. The earth quake as that seen represented the opening of the grave not seen .The raising of the disembodied spirits entering the holy city not seen was witnessed by the angels not seen .

It is the same resurrection we enter into. Now that the work is finished to be absent of the corrupted body is to be present with the lord. No waiting period.
 
E

Enoch987

Senior Member
#112
Jul 13, 2017
317
15
18
#112
Enow attempts to explain who the tribulation martyrs are. How do the tribulation martyrs believe in Jesus if the Holy Spirit has been removed? We can't understand everything. Maybe it will be Michael the prince of Israel who is removed. 2 Thess. 2 does not say who is removed.
 
E

Enow

Banned
#113
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#113
Enoch987 said:
Enow attempts to explain who the tribulation martyrs are. How do the tribulation martyrs believe in Jesus if the Holy Spirit has been removed? We can't understand everything. Maybe it will be Michael the prince of Israel who is removed. 2 Thess. 2 does not say who is removed.
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But I do not believe the Holy Spirit can be removed.

It is the restraining power of the Holy Spirit in the believers that will be removed if believers believed the lie in these latter days that they can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign.

The restraining power will be out of the way if saved believers look to receive spirits bringing signs to them, even the sign of tongues which is why it is not God's gift of tongues when they are seeking it as a sign in receiving those spirits.

That is why God will permit them strong delusions for believing that lie which is by having the restraining power of the Holy Spirit out of the way. The Holy Spirit is still in them, but they are defiling the Temple of God for doing that.

Believers that have gone astray can return to their first love and shun all things by those other infillings, even the so called second blessing; like tongues that comes with no interpretation and thus assumed that tongue must be for private use.
 
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