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Thread: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

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    Default Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. 16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

    If you don't think you would refuse the Bridegroom when He comes at the pre trib rapture for any of those reasons above, I would advise you to heed His warning because He said it will be a snare for those living at the time that He comes.

    Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

    Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife.33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

    So some saints will love their lives and their loved ones that they will not want to leave when the Bridegroom comes.

    So watch and pray always that the Lord will help you be far more willing to leave your life and your loved ones behind.

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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    every saint will leave at the rapture i believe.

    because u cant be 50% saved. 100% or 0%

    either u have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit like ephesians 1:13 says or u dont.
    if u dont u are left behind, if u do Jesus will take His body, the church, those indwelled by the Spirit home. Romans says if u dont have God's spirit u are none of His.

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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Every Christian will participate in the rapture. Every Christian is born again of the gift of the Holy Spirit, a child of God, and a member of the church of the body of Christ. When Christ comes to gather his church, every single Christian on the planet, whether alive or dead, will participate. Christianity (when it became available to be born of the Holy Spirit) began on the day of Pentecost, and will end with the rapture. Jesus Christ never spoke to a Christian during his earthly ministry. Christians did not exist yet. It first became possible to become a Christian on the day of Pentecost, when the gift of the Holy Spirit was first poured out. There were obviously followers of Jesus before Pentecost, but there were no Christians (people born of the Holy Spirit). Having the gift of the Holy Spirit living in a person guarantees his salvation, and that will involve participating in the rapture of the Christian church, the marriage supper of the Lamb, and the millennial kingdom.

    It will not matter whether a Christian "wants" to leave or not. When Christ returns to gather his church, every Christian will go.

    Not sure if you saw this, Enow: 1:9 Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. 16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

    If you don't think you would refuse the Bridegroom when He comes at the pre trib rapture for any of those reasons above, I would advise you to heed His warning because He said it will be a snare for those living at the time that He comes.

    Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

    Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife.33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

    So some saints will love their lives and their loved ones that they will not want to leave when the Bridegroom comes.

    So watch and pray always that the Lord will help you be far more willing to leave your life and your loved ones behind.
    This post is so foolish and has no basis in Scripture that it is not worth of a response.
    I think I will just ignore what you post in the future.

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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. 16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

    If you don't think you would refuse the Bridegroom when He comes at the pre trib rapture for any of those reasons above, I would advise you to heed His warning because He said it will be a snare for those living at the time that He comes.

    Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

    Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife.33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

    So some saints will love their lives and their loved ones that they will not want to leave when the Bridegroom comes.

    So watch and pray always that the Lord will help you be far more willing to leave your life and your loved ones behind.
    Why do you think this place is about the rapture?

    As Paul described the rapture, it will be a sudden event when we will be taken into clouds, it does not seem that somebody will come and ask you politely, if you are willing to go up...
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    Do not be worried about many things - only one thing is needed (Lk 10:41-42).

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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoozy View Post
    every saint will leave at the rapture i believe.

    because u cant be 50% saved. 100% or 0%

    either u have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit like ephesians 1:13 says or u dont.
    if u dont u are left behind, if u do Jesus will take His body, the church, those indwelled by the Spirit home. Romans says if u dont have God's spirit u are none of His.
    So what about the scriptures in the OP? Is it possible that some saints will not want to leave? Or was Jesus warning about this, could never happen?

    And what about believers living in sin that do not want to stop or even ask Jesus to save them from that sin?

    In 1 Corinthians 5th chapter in a church dealing with a unrepentant brother committing fornication with his father's wife, he was to be excommunicated for this purpose below.

    1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.....13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

    The church was to hold the feast of fellowship in sincerity and in truth for why they are to do excommunication.

    1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

    If that is how a church is to have their feast of fellowship, surely God would do no less at the pre trib rapture event.

    It does not mean those left behind are not saved; because He still abides in them, even in former believers, but by being workers of iniquity as those works do deny Him, then they will be denied attendance to the Marriage Supper unless they repent with the help of their Good Shepherd to lay aside every weight & sin before the Bridegroom comes.

    2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

    The eternal glory to obtain with our salvation in Christ Jesus is to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House.

    2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

    So judgment is coming on the House of God first; what the church failed to do in leading believers to repentance, and excommunicating those who refuse to repent, God will do at the pre trib rapture event in receiving them later on.

    1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    Why do you think this place is about the rapture?

    As Paul described the rapture, it will be a sudden event when we will be taken into clouds, it does not seem that somebody will come and ask you politely, if you are willing to go up...
    The hearts wants what it wants. If the saints' hearts are on the treasures on earth and their loved ones so that they would not want to follow Him when the Bridegroom comes, then He will know.

    Otherwise, you are left with the question of why Jesus has said what He had said.

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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellsworth1943 View Post
    This post is so foolish and has no basis in Scripture that it is not worth of a response.
    I think I will just ignore what you post in the future.
    Well, do enlighten everybody as to what the scripture references was about before dismissing it and putting me on ignore.

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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    So what about the scriptures in the OP? Is it possible that some saints will not want to leave? Or was Jesus warning about this, could never happen?

    And what about believers living in sin that do not want to stop or even ask Jesus to save them from that sin?

    In 1 Corinthians 5th chapter in a church dealing with a unrepentant brother committing fornication with his father's wife, he was to be excommunicated for this purpose below.

    1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.....13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

    The church was to hold the feast of fellowship in sincerity and in truth for why they are to do excommunication.

    1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

    If that is how a church is to have their feast of fellowship, surely God would do no less at the pre trib rapture event.

    It does not mean those left behind are not saved; because He still abides in them, even in former believers, but by being workers of iniquity as those works do deny Him, then they will be denied attendance to the Marriage Supper unless they repent with the help of their Good Shepherd to lay aside every weight & sin before the Bridegroom comes.

    2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

    The eternal glory to obtain with our salvation in Christ Jesus is to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House.

    2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

    So judgment is coming on the House of God first; what the church failed to do in leading believers to repentance, and excommunicating those who refuse to repent, God will do at the pre trib rapture event in receiving them later on.

    1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
    All Christians alive at His coming will be raptured.

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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    All Christians alive at His coming will be raptured.
    Be nice if believers would explain away the scriptural references that says otherwise while providing a scripture that says all will be raptured.

    We know that not all the dead will be made alive, but those in Christ will be made alive first.

    And so the question is, will all the saved in Christ that are living, be found abiding in Him as they should be, to be taken as well? His warnings suggests otherwise.

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    Senior Member Snoozy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    ok Enow it would seem possible from those scriptures.

    but are u saying salvation can be lost then? because everyone with the Holy Spirit will be taken up 2 thess 2:7

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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Why do you keep posting this nonsense? I have no idea what the scriptures you posted are in the OP, because I don't read KJV. And I am not willing to look it up in pretty much any modern version, to see what it means.

    Or Greek and Hebrew.

    First, I don't believe in a rapture. It is not found in the bible, if you read the Greek correctly.

    Second, BUT, and I say BUT, and I am willing to admit I am wrong, that there is a rapture, then ALL believers will be taken. There are no second class Christians, because their eschatology is wrong. (I'm assuming this because I can't read your Scriptures. You might even post in German, which I am studying, and I think I would understand it better than KJV)

    I think Enow is also going on ignore for me. So tired of his twisting of the Bible, using a Bible that simply is not readable to modern day Christians. To say nothing of how many false doctrines come out of the bad reading of people who do not speak this form of English! And did a mention false teacher, so many times?

    "But false prophets arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. These false teachers will infiltrate your midst with destructive heresies, even to the point of denying the Master who bought them. As a result, they will bring swift destruction on themselves. 2 And many will follow their debauched lifestyles. Because of these false teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. Their condemnation pronounced long ago is not sitting idly by; their destruction is not asleep." 2 Peter 2:1-3 NET

    Try the New English Bible! The scholarship is impeccable, and really written in understandable English! Not stilted to falsely follow Greek word order, either!
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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    The so-called rapture is a false doctrine, which can only be documented by twisting scripture. This is one of Satan's MOs.


    Remember that religion is one of Satan’s hidden dynasties. He loves to plant false doctrines, which twist Scripture, in Christian churches.


    If you believe the rapture, you may find yourself among the following group of deceived Christians when Christ returns.


    And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. Revelation 6:16


    The above folks are so ashamed because they’ve been worshiping the wrong Christ.


    Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

    Have you ever wondered what God thinks of your fly-away doctrine? Here it is.


    God said, Behold, wake up, I am against your false doctrines [pillows], wherewith ye hunt the souls to make them fly. Did you get that, God is against it when you go out to teach the souls of men and women and tell they are going to fly out of here.


    Those that you have hunted with your whitewashed religion, and told them that they will fly out and not see the time of the end. You have told them not to prepare for the Antichrist, and that the signs of the times of the entire Bible were not important. IT IS A LIE, brother, and God will judge you severely for that lie. wake up.


    Jesus in the parable, from the mount of Olives, in Matthew 24; woe to that woman that is first taken. Then He commands us, "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come" [verse 42]. We are to pay attention to the times we are in, there is no excuse to rely on fairy-tales when we can know the times and signs.

    The flyaway doctrine never came into existence until 1830, and then by a mentally ill woman, Margaret McDonald. You would think that most people would be intelligent enough that they could see through fairy-tales. Jesus didn't teach it, John, Paul, nor Peter taught it. If you are relying on the Books of Thessalonians, you had better get back to the original text.


    When you rely on I Thessalonians 4:15 to the end, and rely on that to back up the fly away doctrine, you have missed the entire meaning of the book. For in 4:13 it tells you what Paul is explaining to the Christians at the Thessalonians Church. the whole chapter is talking about where are the dead, those who died and are buried in the ground.


    It seems that the rapture people have forgotten how to count. The think the 7th trump comes before 6th ... that the real Christ comes before the false one comes. Christ returns at the 7th trump, not the 6th trump;


    At the 6th seal, 6th trump, 6th vial (666), Michael will boot satan, playing his role as the antichrist (instead of Christ in the Greek), from heaven to earth (Revelation Chapter 12:6-9). Keep in mind that Revelation is a Prophetic book making the word SAW into the futuristic word "will" fall etc.

    At the 6th seal, 6th trump, 6th vial (666), Michael will boot satan, playing his role as the antichrist (instead of Christ in the Greek), from heaven to earth (Revelation Chapter 12:6-9). Keep in mind that Revelation is a Prophetic book making the word SAW into the futuristic word "will" fall etc.


    Christ also gave you all 7 seals & trumps in Mark 13, Luke 21, and Matthew 24. Have you read them with understanding?


    So, from where then did the false rapture doctrine come?


    Before 1830, you can find no mention of the Rapture Doctrine. That alone ought to send up a red flag. In fact, the word "rapture" is not in the Bible. So, where did this false doctrine come from? In 1830, Margaret MacDonald had an evil revelation on her sick bed, supposedly from God, in which she was shown what would become "The Rapture Of The Church", among other names.


    And, from The Incredible Cover-up by Dave Macpherson, Appendix A, you'll read:

    "I felt this needed to be revealed, and that there was great darkness and error about it, but suddenly what it was burst upon me with a glorious light." - Margaret MacDonald (Spring of 1830)


    MacDonald's revelation would have probably died with her; however, two preachers grabbed it, cleaned it up, and presented it to Christendom. Today, you'll hear many pastors promoting that false doctrine from pulpits.
    The hourglass of time has been tipped, and it’s later than you may think.
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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    The hearts wants what it wants. If the saints' hearts are on the treasures on earth and their loved ones so that they would not want to follow Him when the Bridegroom comes, then He will know.

    Otherwise, you are left with the question of why Jesus has said what He had said.
    My answer is it is about Israel. They were invited, but did not want to come in.
    Last edited by trofimus; 1 Week Ago at 06:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela53510 View Post
    Second, BUT, and I say BUT, and I am willing to admit I am wrong, that there is a rapture, then ALL believers will be taken. There are no second class Christians, because their eschatology is wrong. (I'm assuming this because I can't read your Scriptures. You might even post in German, which I am studying, and I think I would understand it better than KJV)
    Uhm, I thought that "rapture" means we are taken up when Jesus returns. What else can it mean?
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    Do not be worried about many things - only one thing is needed (Lk 10:41-42).

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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by EarsToHear View Post
    The so-called rapture is a false doctrine, which can only be documented by twisting scripture. This is one of Satan's MOs.


    Remember that religion is one of Satan’s hidden dynasties. He loves to plant false doctrines, which twist Scripture, in Christian churches.


    If you believe the rapture, you may find yourself among the following group of deceived Christians when Christ returns.


    And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. Revelation 6:16


    The above folks are so ashamed because they’ve been worshiping the wrong Christ.


    Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

    Have you ever wondered what God thinks of your fly-away doctrine? Here it is.


    God said, Behold, wake up, I am against your false doctrines [pillows], wherewith ye hunt the souls to make them fly. Did you get that, God is against it when you go out to teach the souls of men and women and tell they are going to fly out of here.


    Those that you have hunted with your whitewashed religion, and told them that they will fly out and not see the time of the end. You have told them not to prepare for the Antichrist, and that the signs of the times of the entire Bible were not important. IT IS A LIE, brother, and God will judge you severely for that lie. wake up.


    Jesus in the parable, from the mount of Olives, in Matthew 24; woe to that woman that is first taken. Then He commands us, "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come" [verse 42]. We are to pay attention to the times we are in, there is no excuse to rely on fairy-tales when we can know the times and signs.

    The flyaway doctrine never came into existence until 1830, and then by a mentally ill woman, Margaret McDonald. You would think that most people would be intelligent enough that they could see through fairy-tales. Jesus didn't teach it, John, Paul, nor Peter taught it. If you are relying on the Books of Thessalonians, you had better get back to the original text.


    When you rely on I Thessalonians 4:15 to the end, and rely on that to back up the fly away doctrine, you have missed the entire meaning of the book. For in 4:13 it tells you what Paul is explaining to the Christians at the Thessalonians Church. the whole chapter is talking about where are the dead, those who died and are buried in the ground.


    It seems that the rapture people have forgotten how to count. The think the 7th trump comes before 6th ... that the real Christ comes before the false one comes. Christ returns at the 7th trump, not the 6th trump;


    At the 6th seal, 6th trump, 6th vial (666), Michael will boot satan, playing his role as the antichrist (instead of Christ in the Greek), from heaven to earth (Revelation Chapter 12:6-9). Keep in mind that Revelation is a Prophetic book making the word SAW into the futuristic word "will" fall etc.

    At the 6th seal, 6th trump, 6th vial (666), Michael will boot satan, playing his role as the antichrist (instead of Christ in the Greek), from heaven to earth (Revelation Chapter 12:6-9). Keep in mind that Revelation is a Prophetic book making the word SAW into the futuristic word "will" fall etc.


    Christ also gave you all 7 seals & trumps in Mark 13, Luke 21, and Matthew 24. Have you read them with understanding?


    So, from where then did the false rapture doctrine come?


    Before 1830, you can find no mention of the Rapture Doctrine. That alone ought to send up a red flag. In fact, the word "rapture" is not in the Bible. So, where did this false doctrine come from? In 1830, Margaret MacDonald had an evil revelation on her sick bed, supposedly from God, in which she was shown what would become "The Rapture Of The Church", among other names.


    And, from The Incredible Cover-up by Dave Macpherson, Appendix A, you'll read:

    "I felt this needed to be revealed, and that there was great darkness and error about it, but suddenly what it was burst upon me with a glorious light." - Margaret MacDonald (Spring of 1830)


    MacDonald's revelation would have probably died with her; however, two preachers grabbed it, cleaned it up, and presented it to Christendom. Today, you'll hear many pastors promoting that false doctrine from pulpits.
    So... Just to be clear, do you believe in the rapture or not?

    Personally, I am convinced the rapture will take place, and if you're a Christian, you'll go, whether you believe in the rapture or not.

    Time will tell.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Angela53510's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    Uhm, I thought that "rapture" means we are taken up when Jesus returns. What else can it mean?

    Taken up where? Into the air, or heaven? Because 1 Thess. 4:17 says "aera" ἀέρα in Greek. That just means we will meet Jesus in the air around us and return. Apantesin ἀπάντησιν meaning "meet and return." There is only one place we can return, and that is earth. Of course, if you want to say that the "rapture" is us meeting Jesus in the air around us, and returning to earth, then you have a different definition of rapture, which is usually that we will all be taken away to heaven with Jesus. What a gnostic thought!

    "ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα." 1 Thess. 4:17
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    "And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me." 2 Cor. 12:9 NASB

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    Senior Member Dino246's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela53510 View Post
    Taken up where? Into the air, or heaven? Because 1 Thess. 4:17 says "aera" ἀέρα in Greek. That just means we will meet Jesus in the air around us and return. Apantesin ἀπάντησιν meaning "meet and return." There is only one place we can return, and that is earth. Of course, if you want to say that the "rapture" is us meeting Jesus in the air around us, and returning to earth, then you have a different definition of rapture, which is usually that we will all be taken away to heaven with Jesus. What a gnostic thought!

    "ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα." 1 Thess. 4:17
    I suspect he's referring to "harpazo".
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    Senior Member Snoozy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela53510 View Post
    Why do you keep posting this nonsense? I have no idea what the scriptures you posted are in the OP, because I don't read KJV. And I am not willing to look it up in pretty much any modern version, to see what it means.
    u always say u read greek but u cant even understand kjv english? ok then. i wonder why the kjv is constantly attacked.
    all the new versions are fine but use a kjv and u will get scolded.

    i understand the kjv just fine. u can call me dumb all u want.

    what u say about greek.... is not convincing at all. should we trust u, one person on the internet over the group of scholars who translated the kjv that served english speaking people for a long time. there was the great awakening.

    its this chain of thought:
    word of God is all authority. but we constantly change it and greek is really this, but why? because its just a translation. but even the greek is wrong we got different manuscripts. next logical step is that only the original manuscripts that were written were inspired, well those dont exist anymore we dont have them.
    therefore now we have no final authority.

    u know i can prove to u from the scriptures that the copies of copies of copies was considered Godbreathed scriptures.

    i just dont understand the anti kjv mentality why is it so bad some people like to pick a bible and trust what it says??
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    Default Re: Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela53510 View Post
    Why do you keep posting this nonsense? I have no idea what the scriptures you posted are in the OP, because I don't read KJV. And I am not willing to look it up in pretty much any modern version, to see what it means.

    Or Greek and Hebrew.

    First, I don't believe in a rapture. It is not found in the bible, if you read the Greek correctly.

    Second, BUT, and I say BUT, and I am willing to admit I am wrong, that there is a rapture, then ALL believers will be taken. There are no second class Christians, because their eschatology is wrong. (I'm assuming this because I can't read your Scriptures. You might even post in German, which I am studying, and I think I would understand it better than KJV)

    I think Enow is also going on ignore for me. So tired of his twisting of the Bible, using a Bible that simply is not readable to modern day Christians. To say nothing of how many false doctrines come out of the bad reading of people who do not speak this form of English! And did a mention false teacher, so many times?

    "But false prophets arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. These false teachers will infiltrate your midst with destructive heresies, even to the point of denying the Master who bought them. As a result, they will bring swift destruction on themselves. 2 And many will follow their debauched lifestyles. Because of these false teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. Their condemnation pronounced long ago is not sitting idly by; their destruction is not asleep." 2 Peter 2:1-3 NET

    Try the New English Bible! The scholarship is impeccable, and really written in understandable English! Not stilted to falsely follow Greek word order, either!
    Two points:

    I am convinced the rapture is found in the Bible, even "reading the Greek correctly". Time will tell.

    2nd, while I agree there are better translations than the KJV, I don't think it's nearly as bad as you seem to think it is. You can't even read it? C'mon, Angela...
    Enow, dcontroversal and Snoozy like this.

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