Cessationism

[garee]

His disciples were accused by mockers because they were speaking in foreign languages as I am sure some of the natives did not understand it.

Not sure where you got that from? Scripture does not reveal someone was mocked because they spoke a foreign language?

The mockers were those who believed tongues was outward a sign to them who believed God . and not a sign to those who believe not. Turning the the curse around.

It does not say tongues is a sign to those who believe. Why seek after a plague?

They are the ones that turn things upside down. They require a sign before they believe, saying to the Potter that framed them ...He has no understanding.

saiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?


It takes away the understanding of God by which we can walk by faith and not after that seen the temporal. He gives us the prescriptive (20/20) to see clearly. Again why turn it upside down as if experience was the authority of things not seen?

Experience is the door to the occult world.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are "not seen" are eternal.

 

[Willie-T]

Some of the humor of all this is us deciding how solemnly religious and proper God wants to appear in what He does. When, because of God working through him, Jesus was laughed at, ridiculed, called a drunkard (as were the Apostles also called) and accused of doing what He did because He was in league with the Devil... and finally murdered for being a Blasphemer according to men's eyes.

Yes, it certainly appears God is very worried about how He will look in front of doubting, critical, judging men.

You are ignoring that is what they say, and not what He actually did.

Be careful how you apply His words. Jesus was without sin and being a drunkard is a sin.

You pitiful little pretender. Strawmen don't work with me. I never said He was a drunkard.

 

[Dino246]

I have a question for you. Are you willing to read William J. Jackson's book, Thyagaraga; Life and Lyrics? Its 418 pages of Hindu miracles. It is full of miracles of healings and wonders that simply defy natural explanation. He has observed such himself.

You can get one on Amazon.com for only $29.95 paperback.

I'm certainly not willing to waste $50 on it. If I happened to find it in my local library, I may scan it.

 

[Enow]

Not sure where you got that from? Scripture does not reveal someone was mocked because they spoke a foreign language?

They, I assume the natives or other Galileans that were not of the disciples, did not know they were speaking in foreign languages for why they said they were drunk.

Acts 2:[SUP]4 [/SUP]And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?[SUP] 8 [/SUP]And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?[SUP] 9 [/SUP]Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,[SUP] 10 [/SUP]Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,[SUP] 11 [/SUP]Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?[SUP] 13 [/SUP]Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

There are some tongue speakers that believe falling down and all those other wild signs of confusions is of God, and they misread and misapply those words to justify what was happening as being of the Holy Spirit.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: [SUP]15 [/SUP]For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; [SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: [SUP]18 [/SUP]And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:


In those wild encounters, there is only wild encounters. Once it starts, normally, nobody is able to get up and speak above all that confusion in what one sees today in those wild encounters. Just chaos and confusion.

Not saying Wille-T is for it but what he says and what he is trying to defend makes me wonder if he is of that camp.

Jesus was never a drunkard, but only called by others as such while eating and drinking. Jesus was without sin. In no way would God have any one mimic falling down in a loss of self control. Just a side bar note of truth there.

 

[Dino246]

In no way would God have any one mimic falling down in a loss of self control. Just a side bar note of truth there.

I am unaware of any Scripture to support this statement.

 

[Willie-T]

It is well known that every man in that area spoke at least two languages (most of them still do, today). And, at Pentecost, Jerusalem was filled with hundreds and hundreds of foreigners, all speaking some of 15 different languages. There would have been no reason for anyone to say that a person speaking in a foreign (earthly) language was drunk. Nor would it amaze the hearers that they heard their own language being spoken by different speakers. But they WERE amazed. Why? Because, as the Bible says, they seemed to be "hearing" the very same words, spoken at one time by a single individual, in all sorts of different languages. THAT is what they couldn't figure out, and were amazed by.

Does anyone here think people in a crowd that big could possibly distinguish their own language being spoken when 14 other Apostles were all speaking in other languages at the same time? Really?

And if you want to claim the Apostles were taking turns, in order to be heard and understood, then it would have amazed no one that a man had learned another language, other than his own, and was speaking it. We see that today, all the time. I speak three languages (sort of) and my wife speaks seven.... so we could easily preach in one of those languages, and no one would bat an eye about it.

 

[Willie-T]

It is well known that every man in that area spoke at least two languages (most of them still do, today). And, at Pentecost, Jerusalem was filled with hundreds and hundreds of foreigners, all speaking some of 15 different languages. There would have been no reason for anyone to say that a person speaking in a foreign (earthly) language was drunk. Nor would it amaze the hearers that they heard their own language being spoken by different speakers. But they WERE amazed. Why? Because, as the Bible says, they seemed to be "hearing" the very same words, spoken at one time by a single individual, in all sorts of different languages. THAT is what they couldn't figure out, and were amazed by.

Does anyone here think people in a crowd that big could possibly distinguish their own language being spoken when 14 other Apostles were all speaking in other languages at the same time? Really?

And if you want to claim the Apostles were taking turns, in order to be heard and understood, then it would have amazed no one that a man had learned another language, other than his own, and was speaking it. We see that today, all the time. I speak three languages (sort of) and my wife speaks seven.... so we could easily preach in one of those languages, and no one would bat an eye about it.

Please do not miss the point that they COULD have been speaking in Aramaic or Greek (languages they ALL knew), and the hearers were hearing in their own language.... EXCEPT for the fact that the Bible says they were speaking in some other language/languages. And we are never told what that particular language/languages might have been.

 

[Snoozy]

what do u guys think it means when they accusde them of being drunk? did they mumble in their speech or what was going on there u guys think?

 

[Willie-T]

what do u guys think it means when they accusde them of being drunk? did they mumble in their speech or what was going on there u guys think?

I personally think the mockers must have been hearing some sounds they could not make any sense of, even though they were very familiar with hearing foreign languages spoken all over the city.

 

[DJ2]

I'm certainly not willing to waste $50 on it. If I happened to find it in my local library, I may scan it.

You are willing to push Craig Keener's 1200 page book on Pentecostal miracles but make little to no effort toward William Jackson's 418 page book of Hindu miracles? Are you implying those miracles are not valid?

 

[Willie-T]

You are willing to push Craig Keener's 1200 page book on Pentecostal miracles but make little to no effort toward William Jackson's 418 page book of Hindu miracles? Are you implying those miracles are not valid?

Send him your copy? It won't cost you much.

 

[Mercy4u]

what do u guys think it means when they accusde them of being drunk? did they mumble in their speech or what was going on there u guys think?

Notice it was the devote Jews who were making this accusation. It is ironic that they said this and has a point.

The sign of tongues was to warn the Jews that divine discipline was coming. And this is how God described the Jews locally assembly and how it was operating at the time the sign of tongues would come,

Isa 28
7And these also reel with wine and stagger from strong drink:
The priest and the prophet reel with strong drink,
They are confused by wine, they stagger from strong drink;
They reel while having visions,
They totter when rendering judgment. 8For all the tables are full of filthy vomit, without a single clean place. 9“To whom would He teach knowledge,
And to whom would He interpret the message?
Those just weaned from milk?
Those just taken from the breast? 10“For He says,
‘Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there.’” 11Indeed, He will speak to this people
Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue, 12He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”
And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen. 13So the word of the LORD to them will be,
“Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there,”
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.

 

[Willie-T]

I'm certainly not willing to waste $50 on it. If I happened to find it in my local library, I may scan it.

You are willing to push Craig Keener's 1200 page book on Pentecostal miracles but make little to no effort toward William Jackson's 418 page book of Hindu miracles? Are you implying those miracles are not valid?

Here is the full text of that book.... FREE.

https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.202629/2015.202629.Tyagaraja-Life_djvu.txt

 

[DJ2]

Send him your copy? It won't cost you much.

I own no books on miracles. Dino246 is the one pushing books on miracles. I only use the Bible.

 

[garee]

Please do not miss the point that they COULD have been speaking in Aramaic or Greek (languages they ALL knew), and the hearers were hearing in their own language.... EXCEPT for the fact that the Bible says they were speaking in some other language/languages. And we are never told what that particular language/languages might have been.

Yes God interprets his prophecy.

It’s more like a reversal of the Tower of Babel.

The idea of any other interpreter other than that of the Holy Spirit is promoting we can hear God after the will of man. If its prophecy its God’s interpretation.

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2Pe

EXCEPT for the fact that the Bible says they were speaking in some other language/languages. And we are never told what that particular language/languages might have been.

No exceptions the language was not unknown to the speakers. God interpreted it to the hearers.

 

[Willie-T]

Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post

Please do not miss the point that they COULD have been speaking in Aramaic or Greek (languages they ALL knew), and the hearers were hearing in their own language.... EXCEPT for the fact that the Bible says they were speaking in some other language/languages. And we are never told what that particular language/languages might have been.

Yes God interprets his prophecy.

It’s more like a reversal of the Tower of Babel.

The idea of any other interpreter other than that of the Holy Spirit is promoting we can hear God after the will of man. If its prophecy its God’s interpretation.

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2Pe

EXCEPT for the fact that the Bible says they were speaking in some other language/languages. And we are never told what that particular language/languages might have been. No exceptions the language was not unknown to the speakers. God interpreted it to the hearers.

No exceptions the language was not unknown to the speakers. God interpreted it to the hearers.

Are you saying the Apostles knew 15 different languages each?

 

[Dino246]

No exceptions the language was not unknown to the speakers. God interpreted it to the hearers.

The Bible disagrees with you:

Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance."

 

[beastslayer1970]

It is well known that every man in that area spoke at least two languages (most of them still do, today). And, at Pentecost, Jerusalem was filled with hundreds and hundreds of foreigners, all speaking some of 15 different languages. There would have been no reason for anyone to say that a person speaking in a foreign (earthly) language was drunk. Nor would it amaze the hearers that they heard their own language being spoken by different speakers. But they WERE amazed. Why? Because, as the Bible says, they seemed to be "hearing" the very same words, spoken at one time by a single individual, in all sorts of different languages. THAT is what they couldn't figure out, and were amazed by.

Does anyone here think people in a crowd that big could possibly distinguish their own language being spoken when 14 other Apostles were all speaking in other languages at the same time? Really?

And if you want to claim the Apostles were taking turns, in order to be heard and understood, then it would have amazed no one that a man had learned another language, other than his own, and was speaking it. We see that today, all the time. I speak three languages (sort of) and my wife speaks seven.... so we could easily preach in one of those languages, and no one would bat an eye about it.

Something to consider. Where the tongues being opened here? or the ears of the people listening?

 

[Willie-T]

Something to consider. Where the tongues being opened here? or the ears of the people listening?

I feel it was both. But, that does not mean any specific earthly language was being spoken at any time. They might have been speaking a combination of all 15 languages simultaneously.

 

[JairCrawford]

Some things to consider; I'm just going to hit on some of the points briefly mentioned here.

So what about falling out in the Spirit? Is this unbiblical? There are verses in scripture that speak of the "-weight- of His glory", and also verses that speak of entering His presence "I will enter His gates". There are also verses that describe worshiping Him by falling prostrate to the ground at His feet. This can happen when we are overwhelmed by the weight of His glory. It is not by any means unscriptural.

Now as for so-called "rowdy inappropriate worship", consider King David when the presence of the Lord arrived. It is right there in scripture. And God approved of his worship!

But what about "let everything be done properly and in order"? Two things we have to keep in mind here. First, we must have an understanding of the context of Paul's audience. Second, in Heaven, worshiping properly and in order involves multi-winged creatures covered in eyes singing "Holy!"

Perspective is everything. I know that I'm not necessarily touching on the gifts specifically in this post, but I felt that needed to be said.