Cessationism

[Waggles]

I do not want to put God in a box. If the miraculous occurs that's awesome!
But this brother brings up a very valid point. Why would those with these "gifts" of healing and bringing people back from the dead not be done in a public way as to bring Glory to God, and perhaps bring many to Christ as was done by the early Church?

NO this brother does not have a valid point.
For the spiritually blind cannot see the wonderful works of God in his Spirit-filled
church for they believe not and deny them.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches,
but which the Holy Ghost teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,
because they are spiritually discerned.
1Corinthians 2:

Miracles, signs, wonders, healings, divine provision still occurs today in many
Pentecostal Churches. We believe Mark 16 15-20 and Acts 2:38 and thus our
faith and obedience is rewarded greatly by the indwelling power of the
Holy Ghost. And yes we ALL pray in tongues by the Spirit as well.
Raising people from the dead in the name of Jesus by the power of the
Holy Ghost is not unknown in my Pentecostal church - The Revival Fellowship.

Cessationism is unbelief of the scriptures: the one and only gospel of salvation
preached by Jesus and the Apostles.

 

[Waggles]

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth,
before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law,
or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you,
does he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:

 

[SovereignGrace]

NO this brother does not have a valid point.
For the spiritually blind cannot see the wonderful works of God in his Spirit-filled
church for they believe not and deny them.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches,
but which the Holy Ghost teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,
because they are spiritually discerned.
1Corinthians 2:

Miracles, signs, wonders, healings, divine provision still occurs today in many
Pentecostal Churches. We believe Mark 16 15-20 and Acts 2:38 and thus our
faith and obedience is rewarded greatly by the indwelling power of the
Holy Ghost. And yes we ALL pray in tongues by the Spirit as well.
Raising people from the dead in the name of Jesus by the power of the
Holy Ghost is not unknown in my Pentecostal church - The Revival Fellowship.

Cessationism is unbelief of the scriptures: the one and only gospel of salvation
preached by Jesus and the Apostles.

So, I am blind, eh? When was the last time you saw a dead person raise to life by someone laying hands on them as the Apostles did? When was the last time a quadriplegic stood up and walked? When was the last time a limb grew back on someone's body?

Surely there is some verifiable proof of these miracles if they have happened. No way would God not want these proclaimed to the masses so that ppl will glorify Him.

 

[SovereignGrace]

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth,
before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law,
or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you,
does he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:

This has nothing to do with sign gifts. What's your point here?

 

[Waggles]

So, I am blind, eh? When was the last time you saw a dead person raise to life by someone laying hands on them as the Apostles did?
Surely there is some verifiable proof of these miracles if they have happened. No way would God not want these proclaimed to the masses so that ppl will glorify Him.

There are two people in my own local fellowship who have been raised up from death
by the laying on of hands and praying in tongues to God for the miracle.
David Hillier died of an asthma attack at his home and his wife Vicki and his sister,
Leslie, prayed over him in the Spirit while laying hands on him.
David was dead for half-an-hour and was raised up without brain damage
by God to his glory and praise.
Dot Carslake died of a massive stroke while dining out with other saints at a
restaurant. She dropped to the floor. Her husband, Eric, without hesitation got down and
laid hands on her (the others prayed quietly in tongues at the table) and prayed over her.
After 10 minutes she came back to life and suffered no ongoing stroke symptoms.
In our testimonies all praise goes to Jesus and the gospel.
These signs do indeed follow them that believe.

Elsewhere a member of our Fellowship, Kevin Male, moved interstate to Queensland
and while there suffered a massive heart attack while in hospital getting ready for a
heart bypass operation. Kevin was dead for over half-an-hour despite attempts by
medical staff to revive him. But his wife and family all prayed in tongues in the
waiting room and God brought Kevin back to life without any brain damage.

Our testimonies are for the glory of Jesus our Lord and Saviour and to the truth of
the scriptures and the gospel of the scriptures.

 

[preacher4truth]

]NO this brother does not have a valid point.
For thespiritually blindcannot see the wonderful works of God in his Spirit-filled
church for they believe not and deny them.

Not only untrue, but not even remotely Christian.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches,
but which the Holy Ghost teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,
because they are spiritually discerned.
1Corinthians 2:

The above passage has nothing to do with this discussion, you've taken it out of context. Most of your ilk live on taking the Word out of context and misusing it.

Miracles, signs, wonders, healings, divine provision still occurs today in many
Pentecostal Churches. We believe Mark 16 15-20 and Acts 2:38 and thus our
faith and obedience is rewarded greatly by the indwelling power of the
Holy Ghost. And yes we ALL pray in tongues by the Spirit as well.
Raising people from the dead in the name of Jesus by the power of the
Holy Ghost is not unknown in my Pentecostal church - The Revival Fellowship.

No, the above isn't true. None of it happens. There are no people being raised from the dead in your church. Zero. Nada. Doesn't happen. Never happened. If this were taking place the world would know about it, because these signs are for the world and there is no way it could be hidden, and no way it couldn't be proven IF it happened, which then it did not happen. These are the things, the entertainment, the show that goes on when there is no real truth and exegesis of Scripture taking place - John 17:17.

Now, God can do it and has, but it isn't happening at your church. Why aren't all of you doing this publicly, so there can be witnesses and documentation? Now, don't even go there, you don't have documentation or any evidence.

The whole premise of your fabrications is this: You all are the true believers, and others aren't. It's Luke 18:9-11.

Now, if and when you provide irrefutable documentation then we will take a look at it.

Cessationism is unbelief of the scriptures: the one and only gospel of salvation preached by Jesus and the Apostles.

We believe the Scriptures to such an extent that we practice 2 Timothy 2:15, have Hebrews 5:11ff and thus see your egregious errors.

You praise the Gospel yet you're not preaching the Gospel yourself.

 

[preacher4truth]

There are two people in my own local fellowship who have been raised up from death
by the laying on of hands and praying in tongues to God for the miracle.
David Hillier died of an asthma attack at his home and his wife Vicki and his sister,
Leslie, prayed over him in the Spirit while laying hands on him.
David was dead for half-an-hour and was raised up without brain damage
by God to his glory and praise.
Dot Carslake died of a massive stroke while dining out with other saints at a
restaurant. She dropped to the floor. Her husband, Eric, without hesitation got down and
laid hands on her (the others prayed quietly in tongues at the table) and prayed over her.
After 10 minutes she came back to life and suffered no ongoing stroke symptoms.
In our testimonies all praise goes to Jesus and the gospel.
These signs do indeed follow them that believe.

Elsewhere a member of our Fellowship, Kevin Male, moved interstate to Queensland
and while there suffered a massive heart attack while in hospital getting ready for a
heart bypass operation. Kevin was dead for over half-an-hour despite attempts by
medical staff to revive him. But his wife and family all prayed in tongues in the
waiting room and God brought Kevin back to life without any brain damage.

Our testimonies are for the glory of Jesus our Lord and Saviour and to the truth of
the scriptures and the gospel of the scriptures.

Sooooo...not only did they die, they were also diagnosed on the spot? And it is all tied to "praying in tongues" something not found in Scripture, right? Right.

Glossolalia, not xenolalia. Nothing in Scripture supports your praying in tongues healing. I'll stick to Scripture, not unbiblical practices and undocumentable events.

 

[preacher4truth]

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth,
before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law,
or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you,
does he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:

Why do you yank Scripture out of context, and why my friend does all of it relate to spiritual gifts in your out of context misusage?

 

[PennEd]

There are two people in my own local fellowship who have been raised up from death
by the laying on of hands and praying in tongues to God for the miracle.
David Hillier died of an asthma attack at his home and his wife Vicki and his sister,
Leslie, prayed over him in the Spirit while laying hands on him.
David was dead for half-an-hour and was raised up without brain damage
by God to his glory and praise.
Dot Carslake died of a massive stroke while dining out with other saints at a
restaurant. She dropped to the floor. Her husband, Eric, without hesitation got down and
laid hands on her (the others prayed quietly in tongues at the table) and prayed over her.
After 10 minutes she came back to life and suffered no ongoing stroke symptoms.
In our testimonies all praise goes to Jesus and the gospel.
These signs do indeed follow them that believe.

Elsewhere a member of our Fellowship, Kevin Male, moved interstate to Queensland
and while there suffered a massive heart attack while in hospital getting ready for a
heart bypass operation. Kevin was dead for over half-an-hour despite attempts by
medical staff to revive him. But his wife and family all prayed in tongues in the
waiting room and God brought Kevin back to life without any brain damage.

Our testimonies are for the glory of Jesus our Lord and Saviour and to the truth of
the scriptures and the gospel of the scriptures.

That the Lord can and does perform miracles is without question. You would be hard pressed to find a Christian here that would believe otherwise.

What those miracles have to do with God bestowing gifts, like the gift to raise the dead, to individuals, I have no idea.

I could recount a multitude of secular examples where the person WASN'T a believer, yet using their medical skills have brought many back to life. WE know that it was actually God that did the miracle. Maybe through that experience people are brought to Christ. Because THAT is the ULTIMATE goal.

We are all going to die. But not all are going to live forever. So if the miracle does not bring Glory to God, and people to Christ, then who is getting the glory?

Also, so much emphasis on this tongues business, de-emphasizes the Lord, and puts the focus on the person speaking tongues.

 

[preacher4truth]

That the Lord can and does perform miracles is without question. You would be hard pressed to find a Christian here that would believe otherwise.

What those miracles have to do with God bestowing gifts, like the gift to raise the dead, to individuals, I have no idea.

I could recount a multitude of secular examples where the person WASN'T a believer, yet using their medical skills have brought many back to life. WE know that it was actually God that did the miracle. Maybe through that experience people are brought to Christ. Because THAT is the ULTIMATE goal.

We are all going to die. But not all are going to live forever. So if the miracle does not bring Glory to God, and people to Christ, then who is getting the glory?

Also, so much emphasis on this tongues business, de-emphasizes the Lord, and puts the focus on the person speaking tongues.

You've described the issue concisely.

It is about who is receiving the glory, in this case it is a certain denom that is seeking to receive the glory, that is despising and using derogation on others as if they are spiritually blind, and do not believe the Word of God - but they do. And they are the end point.

Even though they claim to be giving God the glory, in their doing this toward others, it is pointing to themselves as an elite group and as if only they truly believe.

 

[notuptome]

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruits of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control; against such there is no law.

You would expect that people who claim to be Spirit filled Christians, who expperince the gifts they say they do you be a shining example of these fruits. Yet you find arrogance, belittling, harshness, and volatile emotions with most.

The admonition equally applies to both sides but you are spot on that the Holy Spirit can only produce the fruit of Gal 5:22-23.

The Holy Spirit never goes off script. The Holy Spirit never changes the will of God nor is He subject to the will of man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Enow]

Cessationism is unbelief of the scriptures: the one and only gospel of salvation
preached by Jesus and the Apostles.


Miracles, signs, wonders, healings, divine provision still occurs today in many
Pentecostal Churches. We believe Mark 16 15-20 and Acts 2:38 and thus our
faith and obedience is rewarded greatly by the indwelling power of the
Holy Ghost. And yes we ALL pray in tongues by the Spirit as well.
Raising people from the dead in the name of Jesus by the power of the
Holy Ghost is not unknown in my Pentecostal church - The Revival Fellowship.

Cessationism is unbelief of the scriptures: the one and only gospel of salvation
preached by Jesus and the Apostles.

Are you not under the belief that christians can only receive the Holy Spirit & tongues from the laying on of a Pentecostal?

Or has a mod corrected you from saying stuff like that ever again?

Otherwise, if you really believe that; then how come you expect them to believe until they come to you for you to lay hands on them for them to receive the Holy Ghost & tongues? It should be no surprise to you why there are cessationists, right?

Do know that I am in total disagreement with you on that point. God is not limited by the hands of the Pentecostal in giving the promise of the Holy Ghost to any believer at salvation.

Cessationism is unbelief of the scriptures: the one and only gospel of salvation
preached by Jesus and the Apostles.

And so what happens when someone comes to have hands laid on them but they did not receive the Holy Ghost & tongues?

Do you say that they did not have enough faith? Or do you say that they are not really believers? What do you say? I hate to think you made them believe they would never be His until they spoke in tongues.

 

[Depleted]

I think non cessationists confuse the prayers of the saints for someone to be healed with 'the gift of healing'. Even cessationists believe God can heal through prayer. But that is not to be confused with the gift of healing that any one person has! Charismatics are very confused over this.

Some are healed some are not, in fact experience shows overwhelmingly that most are not, and that is wholly within God's providence.

' extraordinary providence' !

When I think of cessationists, my mind goes to an old pastor (who wasn't all that old, mind you lol) of our church -- James M. Boise. He was true to his belief to the end. And, in his case, the end was pancreatic cancer. He told the people that he would gladly accept all prayers for him, even prayers that he would be healed, but he thought that prayer would be ineffective, so pray for real needs.

I love the man dearly. He's one of a handful of people that I'm confident was truly saved and preserved to the end. BUT he really didn't believe in healing -- ever.

Looking back, obviously God wanted him home when he took him home, however, I am left wondering if the elders laid hands on him and God did heal him, what would he be teaching now?

 

[Enow]

When I think of cessationists, my mind goes to an old pastor (who wasn't all that old, mind you lol) of our church -- James M. Boise. He was true to his belief to the end. And, in his case, the end was pancreatic cancer. He told the people that he would gladly accept all prayers for him, even prayers that he would be healed, but he thought that prayer would be ineffective, so pray for real needs.

I love the man dearly. He's one of a handful of people that I'm confident was truly saved and preserved to the end. BUT he really didn't believe in healing -- ever.

Looking back, obviously God wanted him home when he took him home, however, I am left wondering if the elders laid hands on him and God did heal him, what would he be teaching now?

I would think he would say to pray for all things because sometimes God will answer prayers after all.

 

[notuptome]

I think non cessationists confuse the prayers of the saints for someone to be healed with 'the gift of healing'. Even cessationists believe God can heal through prayer. But that is not to be confused with the gift of healing that any one person has! Charismatics are very confused over this.

Some are healed some are not, in fact experience shows overwhelmingly that most are not, and that is wholly within God's providence.

' extraordinary providence' !

So who is the receiver of the gift? The one who is healed? The one who lays on his hands?

This argument is about one gift and only one. Not the gift of healing but the gift of tongues.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Bladerunner]

A person told me a story that A. A. Allen said once. He was going by a funeral one day and he decided to walk in and get the man out of the coffin and placed him against the wall. He said the corpse went 'thud' as it hit the floor. So, he picked him back up, leaned him against the wall, dusted him off, and then brought him back to life.

And ppl eat this lunacy and goonacy up like it's a melted marshmallow. It amazes me that when these stories are told, then one telling it, that event happen 1,000's of miles from where they are telling it.

What is even worse, when the anti-christ is revealed (after the Pre-trib Rapture), The Bible tells us there are going to be miracles (like of old) that will happen to further convince people that away from GOD. They will not be His.

 

[Enow]

When tongues comes without interpretation and used privately in the assembly, then that is more than enough reason why some believers are cessationists. It should not be a mystery at all when tongues for private use does not profit the assembly.

 

[garee]

I've addressed this at least twice, but you don't seem to have read (or haven't accepted) the explanation. Those who operate in the gifts/manifestations of the Holy Spirit as described in 1 Cor 12-14 usually aren't seeking "signs". Rather, they are seeking to be obedient to the word Paul wrote by inspiration of the same Holy Spirit. Your conflation of the two is simply incorrect and is an irrelevant canard.




This is different from the first century how exactly? Did Paul work any miracle by his own power? Did Peter, or any of the other apostles? No. They all required the power of the Holy Spirit. I don't think you'll find any otherwise-sound Christian claiming to bring about any miraculous event by his or her own power.

1 Cor 13:8 simply says nothing about miracles or healing. What it does say about prophecy, knowledge and tongues ceasing is tied to the appearance of "the perfect". We disagree on what this is; I contest that it happens at the end of the age; you contest that it happened at the end of the first century, or thereabouts. Your view therefore requires the presumption that all claims to prophecy, tongues or knowledge are automatically false.

No such thing as sign gifts . Signs are for those who rebel against prophecy, the gift .That law is not subject to change

Rodger gave the best answer short and to the point.

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Like a Timex watch all of the spiritual gifts not seen as gifts they keep on going or ticking But the watch is out of view it served its temporal purpose to expose those who refuse to walk by faith after the prophecies of God.. It is hid in parables like at the bottom of the ocean....takes a licking, keeps a ticking (not ceasing but hid)

Like in the parable when the Israelite where first delivered from bondage of Egypt as a picture to us being released from the
gates of hell by the gospel of our salvation into the promised rest in the Promised Land. The Sabbath rest we do enter in whenever we hear His voice and do not harden our hearts in unbelief (no faith)

The signs that led them out, where for those who rebelled against the word of God’s prophecy, the promise to Abraham 400 years earlier drew out God’s people .

And they shall hearken to thy voice: and thou shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, “and ye shall say unto him”, The LORD God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days' journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the LORD our God. Exo 3:18

He knew beforehand they would not let them go by a mighty hand so with signs designed for those who rebel they will let his people go.

And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand.And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go. Exo 3:19

( Signs are for those who rebel 1Co 14:22... a law not subject to change)

The purpose was that he would show them what a God of mercy can perform as he had grace on those moved by the prophecy that was given to Abraham four hundred years earlier.

And I will give this people favour in the sight of the Egyptians: and it shall come to pass, that, when ye go, ye shall not go empty. Exo 3:21

Moses response...

And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The LORD hath not appeared unto thee. Exo 4:1

Moses is shown for bringing prophecy that the rebels would reject . Moses was used as the voice of God’s prophecy.When they rejected Moses they were rejecting the words of the mouth of God called prophecy

Exo 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.


He doubted and the Lord took him by the hand.

And the LORD said unto him, What is that in thine hand? And he said, A rod.And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it.And the LORD said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand: That they may believe that the LORD God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee.And the LORD said furthermore unto him, Put now thine hand into thy bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous as snow.And he said, Put thine hand into thy bosom again. And he put his hand into his bosom again; and plucked it out of his bosom, and, behold, it was turned again as his other flesh.And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe thee, neither hearken to the voice of the first sign, that they will believe the voice of the latter sign. Exo 4:2

Both signs pointed to those who believe not prophecy (the word of God) The second which represented death to the first born moved the Pharaoh who was enticed by the father of lies the god of this world to let the people go.


The law revealed 1 Corinthians 14 applied then.

Tongues are a sign to those who believe not prophecy(God’s word) . Not evidence they did believe. That would be turning things upside down. No such thing as I sign gift .It opposes walking by faith (the unseen)

1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

How that gets turned upside down by those who require a sign before they believe is a mystery.

After the first century promised reformation when the veil was rent, the shadows and types used in ceremonial laws to preach the gospel beforehand came to an end.

Again to establish the new form of Christian government ( 1 Corinthians 11) God used outward signs of the work he performs for a temporal time period . It was a terrible time for an inward Jew, born again of the Spirit of Christ.

As God used Moses and Arron to move his people out of Egypt he used the temporal outwards signs to establish his new government.

After it was formed it was business as usual, no outward signs.

For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: Act 17:23


He is not worshiped by human hands seen as if it was human hands that could heal as sign gift. .

Interestingly the Greek word translated Worship is the word therapeuo (Therapeutics it is used once in the scriptures)

It could be paraphrased... Neither does he heal with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

2323 therapeuo {ther-ap-yoo'-o}
from the same as 2324; TDNT - 3:128,331; v
AV - heal 38, cure 5, worship 1; 44
1) to serve, do service 2) to heal, cure, restore to health

 

[7seasrekeyed]

hmmm

the Bible speaks of signs, which are actually from God Himself, ALL THE WAY THROUGH BOTH TESTAMENTS...but people get stuck with the gifts of the spirit, several of which are actually signs as well

this is not asking for signs in order to test God which is a different matter and not to be confused with actual signs that God has given and to some of us, still gives

this quote:

No such thing as sign gifts . Signs are for those who rebel against prophecy, the gift .That law is not subject to change

indicates a lack of knowledge with regards to what signs are and what they are for

first of all, the blatant denial of any sign gifts is in disagreement with scripture whether or not you are a cessationist because even if you do not believe any spritual gifts are for today, the Bible still speaks of sign gifts whether you like it or not

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.I Corinthians 14:22

we can see right there that tongues are also a sign (or were a sign for you cessationists) and we know they were also a gift

casting out of demons is also a sign gift

signs indicate that God approves of the activity being done in His Name...ie: these signs shall follow those that believe

now you can argue 7 ways from Sunday about whether or not they continue, but you cannot argue there are no signs when scripture is plain and clear there ARE signs which indicate the activity of the Holy Spirit operating which also means that God approves as the Holy Spirit does nothing of Himself

some OT signs:

Moses rod
the plagues that came upon Egypt
the fire that consumed the offering of the false prophets (Elijah...I Kings 1)
many other signs through various OT prophets as ordered by God to be signs to Israel

and so on

it is really negligent, IMO, to state no signs in the interest of trying to 'prove' a point

again, makes no difference what your personal belief is on signs with regards to their current validity...the point is, the Bible is chock full of signs

and don't forget the serpent on the brass pole for healing

for the record, I am not going to split hairs and play a game of Bible ping pong here with anyone who chooses to deny what the Bible actually states as it makes no difference whether you are a cessationist or not. signs are still there. again, note the difference between asking for signs because of unbelief or also called 'testing' God and the signs which are FROM God

I mean do folks just not bother to read for their own interest and education these days ?

 

[Depleted]

A person told me a story that A. A. Allen said once. He was going by a funeral one day and he decided to walk in and get the man out of the coffin and placed him against the wall. He said the corpse went 'thud' as it hit the floor. So, he picked him back up, leaned him against the wall, dusted him off, and then brought him back to life.

And ppl eat this lunacy and goonacy up like it's a melted marshmallow. It amazes me that when these stories are told, then one telling it, that event happen 1,000's of miles from where they are telling it.

Do you know me well enough to trust, I'm not your average idiot? (Admitting I can be an idiot, but I'm not one to fall for every hook, line, and definitely anti-sinker. lol) And you know me well enough to know I'm Calvinist, so certainly not against secessionists. I'm in the kind-of-am-kind-of-not camp. (I believe apostles and prophets -- as in future predictors -- are gone/completed/over.)

So, how's this one? One man brought back to life from a heart attack by a cardiologist, except, not by the cardiologist so much as prayers to the Lord from the cardiologist way after the time of death was called. (And 20 minutes is "way after" when the heart has stopped, the breathing has stopped, and all extra measure have been taken.)

[video=youtube;VmZ5Ox7Uzns]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmZ5Ox7Uzns[/video]

I'm game, if you're game. I really am skeptical of theses kinds of stories, but it was validated. If you can find a flaw in this story, let me know, because this is the first time one of these brought-back-from-the-dead stories seemed valid to me. By nature, I am a skeptic.