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Thread: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

  1. #21
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Laish View Post
    Sir really ? You have from the onset have told me that my beliefs are satanic . Really?
    You complain that you are being made to look bad and you called another professing Christian’s beliefs satanic ?
    Since this was not even addressed to you, why have you responded to it?

    Originally Posted by phil36
    Hi Nehemiah6,

    Even a cursory glance at the Genesis account of Adam will show that INDEED there was a promise that if they disobeyed they would die.



    And yes, false doctrines are indeed lies of the Devil, so if you hold to them then there is no point calling them something else. But there is a difference between "lies of the Devil" (doctrines of devils) and "satanic doctrines" (pertaining to occultism) and you should know better.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Laish's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Don't worry brother, it appears neh6 spends much time maligning others, calling them lost, of satan &c. Count it all a blessing even when it is done in oblivious hypocrisy. We all get what he thinks of Reformed brothers, he says it often and loud.
    Not worried brother just wondering out loud . Probably a bit too forceful.
    I do at times pop off . I can take it . I need to playfully work on that . What is problematic is a home with no mirrors .
    Blessings
    Bill
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    God's Grace is sufficient.

    God wants full custody of your children.
    Not just weekend visits.

    We are entertaining the goats while we should be feeding the sheep.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Laish's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Since this was not even addressed to you, why have you responded to it?

    [/SIZE][/I]



    And yes, false doctrines are indeed lies of the Devil, so if you hold to them then there is no point calling them something else. But there is a difference between "lies of the Devil" (doctrines of devils) and "satanic doctrines" (pertaining to occultism) and you should know better.
    Because he is a brother . I would do the same for you . I have done the same for others I disagree with .
    It comes natural after The lord saved me . Also you put it up in public for all to see . You chastised him publicly,did you not ?
    Blessings
    Bill
    phil36 and preacher4truth like this.
    God's Grace is sufficient.

    God wants full custody of your children.
    Not just weekend visits.

    We are entertaining the goats while we should be feeding the sheep.
    Charles Spurgeon

  4. #24
    Senior Member 7seasrekeyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Laish View Post
    Hosea 6:7
    7But like Adam they transgressed the covenant;
    there they dealt faithlessly with me.
    Blessings
    Bill

    well honestly I have not heard of the Adamic covenant

    but I would understand that it was an agreement between God and Adam...obedience in this case

    any covenant God has made is always I will do such and such but only if you do such and such

    seems it went like this...but how this applies to the op is well.??????????

    Answer: The Adamic Covenant can be thought of in two parts: the Edenic Covenant (innocence) and the Adamic Covenant (grace). The Edenic Covenant is found in Genesis 1:26-30; 2:16-17. The details of this covenant include the following:

    Mankind (male and female) created in God’s image.
    Mankind’s dominion (rule) over the animal kingdom.
    Divine directive for mankind to reproduce and inhabit the entire Earth.
    Mankind to be vegetarian (eating of meat established in the Noahic covenant: Genesis 9:3).
    Eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil forbidden (with death as the stated penalty).

    The Adamic Covenant is found in Genesis 3:16-19. As the result of Adam’s sin, the following curses were pronounced:

    Enmity between Satan and Eve and her descendants.
    Painful childbirth for women.
    Marital strife.
    The soil cursed.
    Introduction of thorns and thistles.
    Survival to be a struggle.
    Death introduced.
    Death will be the inescapable fate of all living things.

    source

    seems you were referring to another link

    who knows what connections people make

    I certainly would not bring this up with regards to salvation

    however the Abramic covenant would have to do with God accounting righteousness to Abraham because of his faith, which was made evident by his obedience...believing God could restore his son to life...we know God provided His own sacrifice...both then and through His Son
    Laish likes this.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Don't worry brother, it appears neh6 spends much time maligning others, calling them lost, of satan &c. Count it all a blessing even when it is done in oblivious hypocrisy. We all get what he thinks of Reformed brothers, he says it often and loud.
    More false accusations from the Preacher 4 Falsehood. Exposing false doctrine (which is often required) is not maligning others by any means, but I believe that that is your specialty and others have noted it also. This post of yours is a good example.
    7seasrekeyed likes this.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Laish's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    well honestly I have not heard of the Adamic covenant

    but I would understand that it was an agreement between God and Adam...obedience in this case

    any covenant God has made is always I will do such and such but only if you do such and such

    seems it went like this...but how this applies to the op is well.??????????

    Answer: The Adamic Covenant can be thought of in two parts: the Edenic Covenant (innocence) and the Adamic Covenant (grace). The Edenic Covenant is found in Genesis 1:26-30; 2:16-17. The details of this covenant include the following:

    Mankind (male and female) created in God’s image.
    Mankind’s dominion (rule) over the animal kingdom.
    Divine directive for mankind to reproduce and inhabit the entire Earth.
    Mankind to be vegetarian (eating of meat established in the Noahic covenant: Genesis 9:3).
    Eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil forbidden (with death as the stated penalty).

    The Adamic Covenant is found in Genesis 3:16-19. As the result of Adam’s sin, the following curses were pronounced:

    Enmity between Satan and Eve and her descendants.
    Painful childbirth for women.
    Marital strife.
    The soil cursed.
    Introduction of thorns and thistles.
    Survival to be a struggle.
    Death introduced.
    Death will be the inescapable fate of all living things.

    source

    seems you were referring to another link

    who knows what connections people make

    I certainly would not bring this up with regards to salvation

    however the Abramic covenant would have to do with God accounting righteousness to Abraham because of his faith, which was made evident by his obedience...believing God could restore his son to life...we know God provided His own sacrifice...both then and through His Son
    Hey 7
    thanks for the post .
    For a heads up there is not a uniform standard among Reformed folks concerning covenant beliefs. You can literally find hundreds of different views. Although most hold to some form of covenant theology,not all . Some are dispensational .
    For me I have not really explored covenant theology as a whole . I tend to take each covenant individually and examine its place in scripture and how God is glorified and man’s behavior or man’s reaction to that covenant. Also I take into consideration of how it fits in to all of scripture itself . It’s really awesome that God has the patiences ,loving kindness to not scrap it all when one covenant is broken by man ,let alone make several. To again give man a chance ( grace ) .
    Blessings
    Bill
    7seasrekeyed likes this.
    God's Grace is sufficient.

    God wants full custody of your children.
    Not just weekend visits.

    We are entertaining the goats while we should be feeding the sheep.
    Charles Spurgeon

  7. #27
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    Answer: The Adamic Covenant can be thought of in two parts: the Edenic Covenant (innocence) and the Adamic Covenant (grace). The Edenic Covenant is found in Genesis 1:26-30; 2:16-17.

    I understand you are quoting from Got Questions, but there are times when they simply repeat what are commonly held beliefs, which may not necessarily be true. They are postulating an Adamic and an Edenic Covenant (as opposed to a Covenant of Works) but when you get right down to it, there is not even the hint of a covenant in Genesis 1-3. God already knew that the time of Adam and Eve in Eden would be very short, and they would be driven out of Eden eventually. But as you noted, a covenant is essentially an agreement between God and men, and God made absolutely no agreement with Adam. He gave him a command and a warning. The command was disoeyed and the warning was fulfilled.

    BTW that quote from Hosea was shown to be a misinterpretation and a mistranslation.
    Last edited by Nehemiah6; 1 Week Ago at 10:14 PM.
    7seasrekeyed likes this.

  8. #28
    Senior Member 7seasrekeyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post

    I understand you are quoting from Got Questions, but there are times when they simply repeat what are commonly held beliefs, which may not necessarily be true. They are postulating an Adamic and an Edenic Covenant (as opposed to a Covenant of Works) but when you get right down to it, there is not even the hint of a covenant in Genesis 1-3. God already knew that the time of Adam and Eve in Eden would be very short, and they would be driven out of Eden eventually. But as you noted, a covenant is essentially an agreement between God and men, and God made absolutely no agreement with Adam. He gave him a command and a warning. The command was disoeyed and the warning was fulfilled.

    BTW that quote from Hosea was shown to be a misinterpretation and a mistranslation.

    mheh

    like I said, I never heard of the Adamic covenant...

    I like GotQuestions for its simplicity and often saving me from having to getting the right scriptures and so on so they are a convenience

    I never heard of the Edenic covenant either...

    so not sure where that was going...thanks for your post

    I did not note a covenant between God and Adam either

    I realize questions is stating that the Edenic covenant was 'innocence' but no idea how that was a covenant...again, never heard of any of this and it seems the reason is that it doesn't exist haha

    looking up Hosea, I do see the error. Thanks!

  9. #29
    Senior Member 7seasrekeyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Laish View Post
    Hey 7
    thanks for the post .
    For a heads up there is not a uniform standard among Reformed folks concerning covenant beliefs. You can literally find hundreds of different views. Although most hold to some form of covenant theology,not all . Some are dispensational .
    For me I have not really explored covenant theology as a whole . I tend to take each covenant individually and examine its place in scripture and how God is glorified and man’s behavior or man’s reaction to that covenant. Also I take into consideration of how it fits in to all of scripture itself . It’s really awesome that God has the patiences ,loving kindness to not scrap it all when one covenant is broken by man ,let alone make several. To again give man a chance ( grace ) .
    Blessings
    Bill
    thanks re the reformed view on covenants

    as I have said, I don't claim a name for my beliefs other than what I see in scripture...mind you, lots of study, qualified teachers who did not suddenly pop up on youtube, and various other sources. I am open to changing to my mind and certainly always learning

    I won't change my mind on Calvinism though...so look out...

    the line I see running through the covenants is salvation and God mending the broken relationship

    He does seek us out and as you say awesome!

    good stuff
    Laish likes this.

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    Senior Member breno785au's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Personally, just for me, I don't think I have to worry about any of this stuff if you have an actual relationship with Jesus. It just flows from that. Interesting topic though.
    Laish likes this.
    Earth awaken, all creation, open up your eyes again, alive again, for Christ has torn the veil of darkness away!
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  11. #31
    Senior Member phil36's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post

    All you have tried to do in your post is see in you can somehow make me look bad. And that is a malicious motive.
    Hi Nehemiah6,

    There was nothing malicious in my post to you.
    Soli Deo Gloria

    "After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" - C H Spurgeon



    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

  12. #32
    Senior Member Bogadile's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    I've never understood "covenant theology" either. It seems to be completely whipped out of thin air. I stopped reading once I got to the part where it stated "The Godhead got together to make a covenant for the redemption of the elect" or something of that sort.

    But not all the reformed believe in it, such as John MacArthur who is a dispensationalist like yourself Nehemiah.

    So Nehemiah is John MacArthur also a heretic, even though he agrees with you on dispensationalism? He even has an entire series called "Why every calvinist should be a premillennialist" where he tries to convince others to join him.
    Last edited by Bogadile; 1 Week Ago at 10:33 AM.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogadile View Post
    So Nehemiah is John MacArthur also a heretic, even though he agrees with you on dispensationalism? He even has an entire series called "Why every calvinist should be a premillennialist" where he tries to convince others to join him.
    One could say that John MacArthur is an ANOMALY, just like Reformed Baptist is an anomaly. If one adopts Reformed Theology, then that means dispensationalism is anathema.

  14. #34
    Senior Member Rokurac's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post

    So how could anyone conjure up the idea that a “covenant” was made between God and Adam and promised life for obedience and death for disobedience.”?

    There is absolutely no “promise” of “life for obedience". And a warning for disobedience cannot be construed as a “promise” of "death for disobedience". It should be clear that this is another man-made doctrine which simply misrepresents Bible truth.
    I think people got the idea from the fact that if they obeyed which equals to not eating of the tree, they would have paradise forever. If they didnt obey they would have curses.

    How is any of this unbiblical exactly? Is it that the word covenant is not specifically used?

  15. #35
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Rokurac View Post
    I think people got the idea from the fact that if they obeyed which equals to not eating of the tree, they would have paradise forever. If they didnt obey they would have curses.

    How is any of this unbiblical exactly? Is it that the word covenant is not specifically used?
    Yes, at the very least the word "covenant" should have occurred in Genesis 1-3, just as we find it in Genesis 9 (several times) and Genesis 15:18 and further.

    The assumption that if Adam and Eve would obey they would live in Eden forever (and possibly partake of the tree of life) is simply what we would call jumping to a conclusion. God -- in His Divine foreknowledge -- already knew that after a very short time (apparently) they would be cast out of Eden. Hence no covenant, just a simple command which would have easily been obeyed with no hardship whatsoever.

  16. #36
    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Don't worry brother, it appears neh6 spends much time maligning others, calling them lost, of satan &c. Count it all a blessing even when it is done in oblivious hypocrisy. We all get what he thinks of Reformed brothers, he says it often and loud.
    I agree with your assessment; but I don't think there is actual malice intended. I think the problem stems from the fact that neh6 does not consider the implications of what he says. I think that it is important to realize that a person can be mistaken without intent to do wrong. I believe that this principle is or can be true regardless which side of an issue a person takes.

    If two people are both obviously saved and cant agree on how God brought them to that state; they can still be friends even while they disagree on that point If a person is so rigid that they can't acknowledge that someone who disagrees with them is also saved; you can expect that God will find a way to change their attitude at some point.
    Laish likes this.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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