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Thread: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Reformed Theology includes “Covenant Theology”, and Covenant Theology includes a “Covenant of Works”. Here is how Theopedia summarizes it.

    “In brief, Covenant Theology teaches that God has established two great covenants with mankind and a covenant within the Godhead to deal with how the other two relate. The first covenant in logical order, usually called the Covenant of Redemption, is the agreement within the Godhead that the Father would appoint his son Jesus to give up his life for mankind and that Jesus would do so (cf. Titus 1:1-3). The second, called the Covenant of Works, was made in the Garden of Eden between God and Adam and promised life for obedience and death for disobedience. Adam disobeyed God and broke the covenant, and so the third covenant was made between God and all of mankind, who also fell with Adam according to Romans 5:12-21.”

    But when we look at the actual words of God to Adam, we do not see any “Covenant of Works”. So there is really no such thing as a Covenant of Works, and it is another man-made invention.

    1. Everything that Adam received from God was purely a gift of God’s grace:

    a) Man was created in the image and likeness of God – purely by God’s grace (Gen 1:26)

    b) Man was given dominion over the earth and all its creatures – purely by God’s grace (Gen 1:26)

    c) Man was blessed by God – purely by God’s grace (Gen 1:28)

    d) Man was given a mandate to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth – purely by God’s grace (Gen 1:28)

    e) Man was given all fruits, vegetables and herbs as food – purely by God’s grace (Gen 1:29). [All of God’s creatures were also created as herbivores (Gen 1:30)]

    f) Additionally Man was given a unique and very special orchard called the Garden of Eden, with a river flowing through it (to become four rivers) – purely by God’s grace (Gen 2:8-14)

    g) Man was given the stewardship of the Garden of Eden and could freely eat of all that was in the Garden – purely by God’s grace (Gen 2:15).

    2. The commandment given to Adam held a severe warning, but there were no promises in that commandment, and there was no covenant either:

    And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    So what do we see here?

    1. The creature Man – the pinnacle of God’s creation -- was given every privilege and blessing freely by God’s grace -- Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat

    2. Man received JUST ONE COMMAND which was not grievous -- And the LORD God commanded the man, saying... But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it

    3. Man was then given a very severe warning (also by God’s grace) -- for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    So how could anyone conjure up the idea that a “covenant” was made between God and Adam and promised life for obedience and death for disobedience.”?

    There is absolutely no “promise” of “life for obedience". And a warning for disobedience cannot be construed as a “promise” of "death for disobedience". It should be clear that this is another man-made doctrine which simply misrepresents Bible truth.

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    Senior Member Snoozy's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    this is a common mistake a lot of people make.
    they think there are only two covenants in the bible. law and grace.

    there are many covenants in the bible, the covenant made in noah is still in effect for example but its in the old testament.

    covenant made with abraham, covenant made with moses and them.
    beastslayer1970 likes this.

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    Senior Member Laish's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    What covenant did Adam break?
    Blessings
    Bill
    God's Grace is sufficient.

    God wants full custody of your children.
    Not just weekend visits.

    We are entertaining the goats while we should be feeding the sheep.
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Senior Member 7seasrekeyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoozy View Post
    this is a common mistake a lot of people make.
    they think there are only two covenants in the bible. law and grace.

    there are many covenants in the bible, the covenant made in noah is still in effect for example but its in the old testament.

    covenant made with abraham, covenant made with moses and them.
    oh yay!

    another advocate for covenant understanding!

    rare but appreciated
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    Senior Member 7seasrekeyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Laish View Post
    What covenant did Adam break?
    Blessings
    Bill

    gee

    did someone state there was one?

    come on Bill...there are more that 2 covenants after all
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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Laish View Post
    What covenant did Adam break?
    Blessings
    Bill
    Exactly. Since there was no covenant, how could Adam break any covenant? But he did disobey THE COMMAND. See the thread on The Law of Sin and Death.
    7seasrekeyed likes this.

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    Senior Member Laish's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    gee

    did someone state there was one?

    come on Bill...there are more that 2 covenants after all
    Hosea 6:7
    7But like Adam they transgressed the covenant;
    there they dealt faithlessly with me.
    Blessings
    Bill
    phil36 and preacher4truth like this.
    God's Grace is sufficient.

    God wants full custody of your children.
    Not just weekend visits.

    We are entertaining the goats while we should be feeding the sheep.
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Senior Member Laish's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    gee

    did someone state there was one?

    come on Bill...there are more that 2 covenants after all
    Several and different types too
    Blessings
    Bill
    God's Grace is sufficient.

    God wants full custody of your children.
    Not just weekend visits.

    We are entertaining the goats while we should be feeding the sheep.
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Senior Member Snoozy's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    this is another field thats been destroyed by replacement theology.

    replacement theology allowed the devil to confuse folks in bible prophecy. now the majority think Israel is done and all the ot prophecies to them are just spiritual and applies to the church.
    i cant remember who it was but i spoke with a brother on here and i mentioned ezekiel 37 being about Israel cause thats what the bible says and he told me its typology or something like the passage had something to do with the church.

    same thing with covenants. because folks dont believe that the land belongs to Israel anymore as the covenant states they had to spiritualize it and invent something man made in its place.
    i think thats why they came up with that two covenant theory. its for sure not true. its not even worth investigating because the bible dont even mention it. it does mention all the real covenants though.

    i dont know what these guys teach on this site but they are spot on with the covenants if someone wants to look at it:

    https://www.gotquestions.org/bible-covenants.html

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    Senior Member Laish's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    No not replacement theology.
    Blessings
    Bill
    God's Grace is sufficient.

    God wants full custody of your children.
    Not just weekend visits.

    We are entertaining the goats while we should be feeding the sheep.
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Senior Member Laish's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Your site link teaches about the covenant of Adam or works.
    Blessings
    Bill
    God's Grace is sufficient.

    God wants full custody of your children.
    Not just weekend visits.

    We are entertaining the goats while we should be feeding the sheep.
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Senior Member Laish's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Hold on I feel a king James version moment coming
    Blessings
    Bill
    God's Grace is sufficient.

    God wants full custody of your children.
    Not just weekend visits.

    We are entertaining the goats while we should be feeding the sheep.
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Senior Member Snoozy's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Laish View Post
    Your site link teaches about the covenant of Adam or works.
    Blessings
    Bill
    its not my site. i just linked it.

    i said i dont know what they teach on there but they are spot on on the covenants. they mention all the biblical ones like adamic abrahamic etc with bible quotes. thats what i meant.
    Laish likes this.

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    Senior Member Laish's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoozy View Post
    its not my site. i just linked it.

    i said i dont know what they teach on there but they are spot on on the covenants. they mention all the biblical ones like adamic abrahamic etc with bible quotes. thats what i meant.
    Cool
    Blessings
    Bill
    God's Grace is sufficient.

    God wants full custody of your children.
    Not just weekend visits.

    We are entertaining the goats while we should be feeding the sheep.
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Laish View Post
    Hosea 6:7 But like Adam they transgressed the covenant; there they dealt faithlessly with me.
    You asked for a King James moment and you got it:


    King James Bible
    But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

    So the KJB supports the position that there was no Covenant of Works nor any other kind of covenant with Adam. The word "Adam" and "man" are used interchangeably in Genesis 1 & 2 so the KJB translators rightly interpreted and used "like men". Gen 1:26 has the Hebrew word "Adam" but that would not have been appropriate, so it was translated as "man". And even at Gen 2:19, where the KJB has "Adam" [first mention] the other translations have "man".
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    Senior Member phil36's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post


    And a warning for disobedience cannot be construed as a “promise” of "death for disobedience". It should be clear that this is another man-made doctrine which simply misrepresents Bible truth.

    Hi Nehemiah6,

    Even a cursory glance at the Genesis account of Adam will show that INDEED there was a promise that if they disobeyed they would die.


    Gen 2:17 - but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."

    In fact it was not just a warning it was a command not to 'eat' and if you break the command you will surely die. And it is obvious that the flip side of this was to stay in that pure state with God working in His garden.

    I am quite concerned at your willingness to mishandle scripture just over a gripe that you have.

    BTW, and just as a side note concerning your OP, you do realise that all covenants in the bible are by grace.. so your point seems to argue against itself!! You have a self defeating argument, with extremely bad exegesis of the Genesis account. In fact its not exegesis it's eisegesis you are reading your own argument into the text! dangerous!

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    Soli Deo Gloria

    "After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" - C H Spurgeon



    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

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    Senior Member phil36's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    .

    Basically there are only two types of covenant in Scripture, however, there are many covenants made. And always by God's initiative not mans. And all covenants are by grace. In other words it is only by God's own goodness and mercy that He 'cuts' a covenant with man. no matter whether it is Adamic, Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic or the final better New covenant.
    MarcR and Laish like this.
    Soli Deo Gloria

    "After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" - C H Spurgeon



    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post
    Hi Nehemiah6,

    Even a cursory glance at the Genesis account of Adam will show that INDEED there was a promise that if they disobeyed they would die.

    If you are unable to distinguish between a promise and a warning, then you are the one using eisegesis.
    In fact it was not just a warning it was a command not to 'eat' and if you break the command you will surely die. And it is obvious that the flip side of this was to stay in that pure state with God working in His garden.
    Yes the command contained a warning and I have already pointed that out. There is nothing else in that command other than to freely eat of the other trees. There is no mention of "pure state" or "innocence" or even the promise of eternal life.
    I am quite concerned at your willingness to mishandle scripture just over a gripe that you have.
    And I am quite concerned about your willingness to hurl false accusations. You have not proven even once that I have ever mishandled Scripture (unlike the Calvinistic distortions that we find all over the map).

    BTW, and just as a side note concerning your OP, you do realise that all covenants in the bible are by grace.
    And that is exactly why I have said that there is no such thing as a Covenant of Works. If it is of works, it cannot be of grace, and the apostle Paul makes that perfectly clear.

    All you have tried to do in your post is see in you can somehow make me look bad. And that is a malicious motive.
    Last edited by Nehemiah6; 1 Week Ago at 07:46 PM.

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    Senior Member Laish's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post

    All you have tried to do in your post is see in you can somehow make me look bad. And that is a malicious motive.
    Sir really ? You have from the onset have told me that my beliefs are satanic . Really?
    You complain that you are being made to look bad and you called another professing Christian’s beliefs satanic ?
    Blessings
    Bill
    phil36, MarcR and preacher4truth like this.
    God's Grace is sufficient.

    God wants full custody of your children.
    Not just weekend visits.

    We are entertaining the goats while we should be feeding the sheep.
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: No such thing as “A Covenant of Works”

    Quote Originally Posted by Laish View Post
    Sir really ? You have from the onset have told me that my beliefs are satanic . Really?
    You complain that you are being made to look bad and you called another professing Christian’s beliefs satanic ?
    Blessings
    Bill
    Don't worry brother, it appears neh6 spends much time maligning others, calling them lost, of satan &c. Count it all a blessing even when it is done in oblivious hypocrisy. We all get what he thinks of Reformed brothers, he says it often and loud.
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    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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