An Increase of Cessationists and Legalists (CC)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
33
#1
Is it just me, or has the tide shifted and there seems to be an influx of people who subscribe to Cessationism and Legalism on this site? I've noticed more and more likes on posts that months ago would've maybe got a like or two, and now are getting five to six likes (if not more).

They also seem to be quite vocal, and firm on their position. I suppose beyond just an observation, I'd like to encourage people on the opposite side of the argument to take a stand and be more proactive. Share the truth in meekness and with respect.

May God lead us all into the truth, and reveal to us the error of our doctrines. Our beliefs must align with His word, from beginning to end.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2
Cessasionalism has been prevalent on this sight since I got here, Most people I know believe this. The health and wealth/spirit gifting group has always been a small minority

Legalism, Yeah I think I see what you mean, I think a lot of the old ones are getting friends and coming back in..
 

JairCrawford

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2017
107
6
0
#3
I have a lot to share on the topic (hence I created a thread on it) but it's gotten so heated that I'm trying to let it simmer down a bit lol
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#4
I have a lot to share on the topic (hence I created a thread on it) but it's gotten so heated that I'm trying to let it simmer down a bit lol

They get heated bad.. Thats why I stay out.
 
Nov 6, 2017
674
12
0
#5
Is it just me, or has the tide shifted and there seems to be an influx of people who subscribe to Cessationism and Legalism on this site? I've noticed more and more likes on posts that months ago would've maybe got a like or two, and now are getting five to six likes (if not more).

They also seem to be quite vocal, and firm on their position. I suppose beyond just an observation, I'd like to encourage people on the opposite side of the argument to take a stand and be more proactive. Share the truth in meekness and with respect.

May God lead us all into the truth, and reveal to us the error of our doctrines. Our beliefs must align with His word, from beginning to end.
This is why other Christian chat boards have team rooms for like minded believers. This is the best set up because like minded folks of all personal convictions can discuss together. It also helps the readers or guests because they can benefit from seeing all sides of Bible discussion, go back to the Word and decide on their own without seeing fights, etc.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#6
This is why other Christian chat boards have team rooms for like minded believers. This is the best set up because like minded folks of all personal convictions can discuss together. It also helps the readers or guests because they can benefit from seeing all sides of Bible discussion, go back to the Word and decide on their own without seeing fights, etc.

Where are these chat rooms at? I have yet to see one,, not saying they are not there/ Just saying I never saw one.

This is actually one of the calmest chat room I have ever been a member off.. Most of the chat rooms I have visited make Christian Chat look like paradise.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#7
Where are these chat rooms at? I have yet to see one,, not saying they are not there/ Just saying I never saw one.

This is actually one of the calmest chat room I have ever been a member off.. Most of the chat rooms I have visited make Christian Chat look like paradise.
Ironic that the ones complaining about strife in the forums are the ones starting off with labeling their opponents. I did not know what a cessationist was till I came here.

Oh well those who call for meekness never are themselves.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#8
Is it just me, or has the tide shifted and there seems to be an influx of people who subscribe to Cessationism and Legalism on this site? I've noticed more and more likes on posts that months ago would've maybe got a like or two, and now are getting five to six likes (if not more).

They also seem to be quite vocal, and firm on their position. I suppose beyond just an observation, I'd like to encourage people on the opposite side of the argument to take a stand and be more proactive. Share the truth in meekness and with respect.

May God lead us all into the truth, and reveal to us the error of our doctrines. Our beliefs must align with His word, from beginning to end.
There may well indeed be an influx. In any case I hope and believe that I am an example of the fact that it is possible to be a

Cessationist or at least a skeptic without being a legalist.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#9
Where are these chat rooms at? I have yet to see one,, not saying they are not there/ Just saying I never saw one.

This is actually one of the calmest chat room I have ever been a member off.. Most of the chat rooms I have visited make Christian Chat look like paradise.
I must agree, this forum is quite tame.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#10
Two very different beliefs which I do not think are connected



Is it just me, or has the tide shifted and there seems to be an influx of people who subscribe to Cessationism and Legalism on this site? I've noticed more and more likes on posts that months ago would've maybe got a like or two, and now are getting five to six likes (if not more).

They also seem to be quite vocal, and firm on their position. I suppose beyond just an observation, I'd like to encourage people on the opposite side of the argument to take a stand and be more proactive. Share the truth in meekness and with respect.

May God lead us all into the truth, and reveal to us the error of our doctrines. Our beliefs must align with His word, from beginning to end.
 
Nov 12, 2017
203
4
0
#11
Is it just me, or has the tide shifted and there seems to be an influx of people who subscribe to Cessationism and Legalism on this site? I've noticed more and more likes on posts that months ago would've maybe got a like or two, and now are getting five to six likes (if not more).

They also seem to be quite vocal, and firm on their position. I suppose beyond just an observation, I'd like to encourage people on the opposite side of the argument to take a stand and be more proactive. Share the truth in meekness and with respect.

May God lead us all into the truth, and reveal to us the error of our doctrines. Our beliefs must align with His word, from beginning to end.
Hello Ben. It seems the opposite in my tiny space on this planet. Sure seems to be true that legalism and the 'thou shalt' and thou shalt not' thought is rampant. But it seems to be getting very popular for the "signs and wonders" crowd.

And from my studies it is not "cessationism." It is 3 temporary gifts that will cease. All others(gifts) are in place and function in the Church.

Supernatural knowledge will be done away.

Supernatural prophecy will be done away.

supernatural tongues will cease.

These temporary gifts, that 'filled in the gaps' for incomplete doctrine at the time, would cease when 'the faith' was completely revealed through His written word to us.

And to be technically honest from my studies tongues ceased on their own accord. So they ceased before supernatural knowledge( to witness/evangelize properly without a complete scripture) and prophecy( to teach complete doctrines of the faith without the completed scriptures.)
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#12
Is it just me, or has the tide shifted and there seems to be an influx of people who subscribe to Cessationism and Legalism on this site? I've noticed more and more likes on posts that months ago would've maybe got a like or two, and now are getting five to six likes (if not more).

They also seem to be quite vocal, and firm on their position. I suppose beyond just an observation, I'd like to encourage people on the opposite side of the argument to take a stand and be more proactive. Share the truth in meekness and with respect.

May God lead us all into the truth, and reveal to us the error of our doctrines. Our beliefs must align with His word, from beginning to end.
Feeding divisiveness rather than unity. Subtle, but clearly you are seeking to cause discord. You must be proud.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#13
Perhaps we should address the lack of the gifts used in the church or expressed in the church and why, rather than simply creating a doctrinal theology of it ceasing after the establishment of the faith doctrine.
Believing that the gifts has ceased would usher in legalism as it is a form of blame.
For the life of me I cannot see any spirit filled Christian thinking he can maintain his walk in Christ without the gifts. Even your faith is a gift. I'm not talking about loosing your salvation I'm talking about loosing your salt.
Many have come to believe that the gifts are given by favor and when one doesn't receive a certain gift they lack favor from God. What a lie.
Paul emphasized the greatest gift is love. ( I think we should all ask for that one.) Most want a seen gift such as tongues, a prophet, a look at me gift. What good has gold done in the hands of the proud.

Good observation ben:D
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,022
12,708
113
#14
Is it just me, or has the tide shifted and there seems to be an influx of people who subscribe to Cessationism and Legalism on this site?
Let's set aside Cessationism for the moment. However we need to be biblically clear about what it means to be a legalist, and the apostle Paul makes the meaning very clear:

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin... Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law...Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt...Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression... Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

So a legalist would be one who would attempt to be justified (declared righteous by God) by doing the deeds of the Law (Torah observance).

But as far we we can tell there is no one who comes on this Christian board who believes that he is justified by Torah observance. There may be some Sabbatarians here, but are they claiming that observing the sabbath (along with other commandments in the Law of Moses) makes them right with God and fit for Heaven? I don't think so, and Sabbatarians, correct me if I am wrong. There may be some who wish to maintain the dietary laws of Moses, but again, are they claiming that they are justified through that?

So it is not Legalism that you are talking about, but resistance to Hyper Grace. Hyper Grace suggests that the Ten Commandments have no application or bearing in the sanctification of Christians. But the Bible makes it crystal clear that the Law of Love (the Law of Christ) is none other than the Ten Commandments distilled into one word -- agape.

So the Law (the Ten Commandments) is not nullified by any means, but established through the New Covenant, where they are written on the hearts and minds of believers by the Holy Spirit.

 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#15
Let's set aside Cessationism for the moment. However we need to be biblically clear about what it means to be a legalist, and the apostle Paul makes the meaning very clear:

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin... Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law...Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt...Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression... Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

So a legalist would be one who would attempt to be justified (declared righteous by God) by doing the deeds of the Law (Torah observance).

But as far we we can tell there is no one who comes on this Christian board who believes that he is justified by Torah observance. There may be some Sabbatarians here, but are they claiming that observing the sabbath (along with other commandments in the Law of Moses) makes them right with God and fit for Heaven? I don't think so, and Sabbatarians, correct me if I am wrong. There may be some who wish to maintain the dietary laws of Moses, but again, are they claiming that they are justified through that?

So it is not Legalism that you are talking about, but resistance to Hyper Grace. Hyper Grace suggests that the Ten Commandments have no application or bearing in the sanctification of Christians. But the Bible makes it crystal clear that the Law of Love (the Law of Christ) is none other than the Ten Commandments distilled into one word -- agape.

So the Law (the Ten Commandments) is not nullified by any means, but established through the New Covenant, where they are written on the hearts and minds of believers by the Holy Spirit.


As I see it there is much more to legalism than belief in justification by works. I believe that belief that observing laws (of any sort) enhances your Christian walk either is or tends toward legalism. I believe that advocating laws as a way of changing unbelievers' behavior is the worst kind of legalism; because it undermines the teaching that our relationship with God is based on grace. Any teaching that observance of or refraining from certain activities is essential to a Christian life is legalism. The behaviors may indeed be things that God desires to build into our walk with Him; but the work of the Holy Spirit (NOT THE WORK OF A RULE BOOK) is the only non-legalistic way to get there.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
717
113
#16


So a legalist would be one who would attempt to be justified (declared righteous by God) by doing the deeds of the Law (Torah observance).

I'd never heard it put that way. (and this is just a discussion point, not arguing anyting) I'd always thought of someone "legalistic" as being someone who forces (or requires) strict adherence to points of law (biblical or laws of state) BY OTHERS...partly because they use it to find fault, accuse and ultimately to bring punishment (instead of mercy) to those same "others".
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#17
Is it just me, or has the tide shifted and there seems to be an influx of people who subscribe to Cessationism and Legalism on this site? I've noticed more and more likes on posts that months ago would've maybe got a like or two, and now are getting five to six likes (if not more).

They also seem to be quite vocal, and firm on their position. I suppose beyond just an observation, I'd like to encourage people on the opposite side of the argument to take a stand and be more proactive. Share the truth in meekness and with respect.

May God lead us all into the truth, and reveal to us the error of our doctrines. Our beliefs must align with His word, from beginning to end.
Cessasionalism has been prevalent on this sight since I got here, Most people I know believe this. The health and wealth/spirit gifting group has always been a small minority

Legalism, Yeah I think I see what you mean, I think a lot of the old ones are getting friends and coming back in..
As for the cessasionist are all over the place, there is a turn in those that believe in the Doctrines of Grace, as more of them are believing in the continuance of the gifts. Here's where cessasionist miss the mark I Corinthians 12:27-31

“Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts.”

If the gifts are no longer valid then there are no prophets (preachers), teachers (pastors), helping, administration, because the cessationist believe in these gifts but do not believe in miricles or various tongues. I love how the Holy Spirit placed miricles in the middle and verious tongues at the end. Then He foucuses in on "do all" If you add the reason for the gift that Paul gives in Ephesains 4:11-16

“And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.”

The gifts are for the building up of the body of Christ, one might say that this is limited to the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepards and teachers. That these are the only gifts that are for the building up of the body, maybe they have never read I Corinthians 14:26

“What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.”

Notice that a tongue, or an interpretation, are done to build up, just like the gifts of the leadership of the Body of Christ. Yet cessasionist still believe in the gifts of leadership and administration, helps, hospitality and the like, but some how dismiss tongues, miricles and the like when they are for the building up of the body as well as the leadership gifts.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,022
12,708
113
#18
I'd never heard it put that way. (and this is just a discussion point, not arguing anyting) I'd always thought of someone "legalistic" as being someone who forces (or requires) strict adherence to points of law (biblical or laws of state) BY OTHERS...partly because they use it to find fault, accuse and ultimately to bring punishment (instead of mercy) to those same "others".
This is the MISAPPLICATION of "Legalism". Christians who hold to specific standards are called "Legalists" by those who do not believe that Christians should maintain specific standards.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,022
12,708
113
#19
As I see it there is much more to legalism than belief in justification by works. I believe that belief that observing laws (of any sort) enhances your Christian walk either is or tends toward legalism. I believe that advocating laws as a way of changing unbelievers' behavior is the worst kind of legalism; because it undermines the teaching that our relationship with God is based on grace. Any teaching that observance of or refraining from certain activities is essential to a Christian life is legalism. The behaviors may indeed be things that God desires to build into our walk with Him; but the work of the Holy Spirit (NOT THE WORK OF A RULE BOOK) is the only non-legalistic way to get there.
Actually, this is a MISAPPLICATION of Legalism. Grace does not teach Christians to abandon all rules or abandon the maintenance of any standards against worldly behavior. "Love not the world neither the things of the world" has be applied in practical terms.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#20
Is it just me, or has the tide shifted and there seems to be an influx of people who subscribe to Cessationism and Legalism on this site? I've noticed more and more likes on posts that months ago would've maybe got a like or two, and now are getting five to six likes (if not more).

They also seem to be quite vocal, and firm on their position. I suppose beyond just an observation, I'd like to encourage people on the opposite side of the argument to take a stand and be more proactive. Share the truth in meekness and with respect.

May God lead us all into the truth, and reveal to us the error of our doctrines. Our beliefs must align with His word, from beginning to end.
Hi Ben,

There has always been a presence of cessationist and non cessationists on the board, so I don't know where you are coming from on that point.

Regarding legalists, there certainly has been an intensity in their teaching in the threads but it is actually only a small handful... we all know who they are. There are also those who (and it wasn't that long ago) skirt with antinomianism.

It's the nature of an open board.