Was There Animal Death Before Adam's Sin?

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Was There Animal Death Before Adam's Sin?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • No

    Votes: 16 64.0%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 4 16.0%
  • Its irrelevant/not important/I do not care

    Votes: 3 12.0%

  • Total voters
    25

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#1
[video=youtube;RnIfkKP2ipw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnIfkKP2ipw[/video]
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#2
If there was animal death before Adams sin, then God created something to die. He creates life, not death. The thought that He created anything to die rather than live is something I could never process.
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,703
1,715
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#3
sin which WILL bring death (Spiritual death and eventually physical death) did not enter Into the world until Adams disobedience.
 

Prov910

Senior Member
Jan 10, 2017
880
47
0
#5
If there was animal death before Adams sin, then God created something to die. He creates life, not death. The thought that He created anything to die rather than live is something I could never process.
Animals don't die because they sin, do they?

Before sin humans walked with God. Perhaps introducing sin in the world lowered humanity to the level of animals. And now we die. Just a thought...
 
Jul 23, 2017
879
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#6
its interesting. bible doesnt say but i believe the answer to question is NO

i believe it only happened after adam's fall.

but u know what animals never sinned so why do they suffer also? thats the surprise question here.
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
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#7
Genesis 1:[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:[SUP] 15 [/SUP]And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.[SUP] 16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.[SUP] 17 [/SUP]And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;[SUP] 18 [/SUP]Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;[SUP] 19 [/SUP]In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Guess what else cam from the earth that we can observed presently going to the ground besides mankind?

Genesis 1:[SUP]24 [/SUP]And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

If the ground is cursed and the serpent was cursed "above" all living things, which certainly implies to me that all creation was cursed, then we can see why all of creation awaits the manifestations of the sons of God.

Romans 8:
[SUP]19[/SUP]For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,[SUP] 21[/SUP]Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.[SUP] 22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

So there was no death before Adam's fall. Indeed, it was after Adam's fall that they had received coats of skins to cover their nakedness. Animals had to die then for that to happen which was after the fall of mankind & creation.


 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#8
But what did animals (carnivorous ones) eat while Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the trees? Did not the spiders feed on the insects? And the fish feed on littler ones? And so on....
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,247
25,713
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#9
When creation is restored, death (the last enemy) is done away with, and animals will not eat other animals, and be no threat to humans, either. Why is it so hard to believe they did not eat other animals before sin entered the world, causing the fall of all creation?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#10
When creation is restored, death (the last enemy) is done away with, and animals will not eat other animals, and be no threat to humans, either. Why is it so hard to believe they did not eat other animals before sin entered the world, causing the fall of all creation?
Creation will not be "restored".

It will be all new, spiritual. Thats why for example eating, reproducing, physical death or problem with space will not exist.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,247
25,713
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#11
Creation will not be "restored".

It will be all new, spiritual. Thats why for example eating, reproducing, physical death or problem with space will not exist.
Yes, all things will be made new, and restored to being very good, as it was before the fall :)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#12
Yes, all things will be made new, and restored to being very good, as it was before the fall :)
Can you show me the word "restored" in the Bible?

Revelation says the opposite - it will have nothing in common with the old creation. The universe (or whatever it will be) will work even without sun. No planet rotation (no night) etc.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,247
25,713
113
#13
Isaiah 11:6- The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling together;
and a little child will lead them.
7 The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
9 They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 65:25 " The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpents meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord."
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#14
Isaiah 11:6-9 The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling[a] together;
and a little child will lead them.
7 The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
9 They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord
[FONT="][FONT=georgia][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=georgia][SIZE=3]as the waters cover the sea.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]

[/FONT]
Isaiah 65:25 " The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpents meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord."
What does the holy mountain represent? And why do you think its about new creation?
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
#15
Yes, all things will be made new, and restored to being very good, as it was before the fall :)
In acts peter quotes Joel, i think, "...at the restoration of all things...".

But first peter says "...That times of refreshing wiuld come.."

This walk keeps getting better all the time
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,247
25,713
113
#16
Can you show me the word "restored" in the Bible?

Revelation says the opposite - it will have nothing in common with the old creation. The universe (or whatever it will be) will work even without sun. No planet rotation (no night) etc.
I already agreed with you that everything shall be made new. The word restoration simply connotes a return too all things being good, good, and very good as it was in the beginning before the fall of all creation due to the sin of Adam.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#17
I already agreed with you that everything shall be made new. The word restoration simply connotes a return too all things being good, good, and very good as it was in the beginning before the fall of all creation due to the sin of Adam.
Your original argument was why do people cannot belive that if there will be no death in the new creation, there was not also in the old one.

And my response was that the new one will be spiritual, without many laws and ecosystem we have now. And then our convo continued.
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#18
But what did animals (carnivorous ones) eat while Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the trees? Did not the spiders feed on the insects? And the fish feed on littler ones? And so on....
Genesis 1:[SUP]27 [/SUP]So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.[SUP]28 [/SUP]And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.[SUP]29 [/SUP]And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.[SUP]30 [/SUP]And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

They were all plant eaters before the flood, including mankind.


After the flood.... it changed everything.

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

When all of creation is restored at the manifestations of the sons of God...this will happen.

Isaiah 11:[SUP]6 [/SUP]The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.[SUP]8 [/SUP]And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. [SUP]9 [/SUP]They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

All living things will be plant eaters again.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,247
25,713
113
#19
Your original argument was why do people cannot belive that if there will be no death in the new creation, there was not also in the old one.

And my response was that the new one will be spiritual, without many laws and ecosystem we have now. And then our convo continued.
I asked a question: Why is it so hard to believe they did not eat other animals before sin entered the world, causing the fall of all creation? Animals are not considered to be subject to the moral requirement of submitting to God, as is man. They fell as a result of man's choice to follow his own will over the will of God.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,912
113
#20
Normally I would probably just say I don't care, but this has kind of interested me... so I guess I'll just have to say I don't know for sure.

I do wonder why most people consider death to always be such a bad thing. I mean, I know it is sad, but it is also natural and serves a purpose.