There are certainly many appropriate roles for women in ministry. Scripture seems to indicate that the role of elder is not one of them. The issue is certainly not about competence. Many women who are in a pastoral ministry IMO do a better job of it than some of their male colleagues. I believe that the issue is accountability. People in any role make mistakes. I believe that God has indicated, in Scripture, that when mistakes are made in the role of elder; He wants a man to take the heat.
Women in Ministry
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Do you consider "the granting of leadership to men" a punishment upon women? Do you have a Bible verse supporting that? Further, do you recognize that the Bible teaches that Eve was deceived, and Adam sinned (there is a distinction)?
Regarding the qualifications for elders, you have placed the emphasis on "husband". Have you considered the possibility that the emphasis should be on "one" to exclude polygamists instead? What about unmarried men or widowers? Neither is the husband of one wife... are they too excluded in your interpretation?
Regarding the qualifications for elders, you have placed the emphasis on "husband". Have you considered the possibility that the emphasis should be on "one" to exclude polygamists instead? What about unmarried men or widowers? Neither is the husband of one wife... are they too excluded in your interpretation?
stonesoffire has spoken. Chuck out the bibles! Relax friend! Just joking! 
In all seriousness: I see the Scriptures clearly forbid women from being pastors, I have checked "the greek" and it is in ALL MANUSCRIPTS we have. So it is quite clear.
But on a practical level I know of a story where some men were sent as missionaries to an island and they were EATEN, yes. Regardless of the horrible fate of the men, their wives went there and evangelized these people. Surely that had to include teaching which is specifically forbidden 1 Timothy 2:12?
But are we to say that what those women did was WRONG? That evangelizing those people was WRONG? I dare not say so.
I am extremely conflicted on this subject. On one hand I see the bible clearly forbid it, yet on one hand I have experience and have heard of others' experiences where God's work has been done through women.
I hope no one gets offended at my opinion! It is just that.
In all seriousness: I see the Scriptures clearly forbid women from being pastors, I have checked "the greek" and it is in ALL MANUSCRIPTS we have. So it is quite clear.
But on a practical level I know of a story where some men were sent as missionaries to an island and they were EATEN, yes. Regardless of the horrible fate of the men, their wives went there and evangelized these people. Surely that had to include teaching which is specifically forbidden 1 Timothy 2:12?
But are we to say that what those women did was WRONG? That evangelizing those people was WRONG? I dare not say so.
I am extremely conflicted on this subject. On one hand I see the bible clearly forbid it, yet on one hand I have experience and have heard of others' experiences where God's work has been done through women.
I hope no one gets offended at my opinion! It is just that.
"Humanistically" means "in the manner of humanists". Is that what you meant? If so, it's irrelevant, for I am not a humanist, either in the modern or classical senses. Perhaps you meant "humanly"... that would be consistent with your argument.
Either way, I don't find your position compelling. I consider the sacrifice of Jesus to be highly logical. I can see how most people would find it emotionally abhorrent, but that is a different issue. As to inspiration, I haven't claimed anything to the contrary, so your point is moot.
"Hard to understand" is a great way to describe 1 Timothy 2. It seems that you're using it to denigrate my intelligence; I can throw that ball at you just as easily. Perhaps instead you could consider the substance of my position and give a response consistent with your intelligence rather than your apparent desire to prove me wrong?
If I were to take your position to its logical conclusion, I would have to conclude that you park your intelligence at the door when you go into church. Jesus said to love God with our hearts and minds. I see a non sequitur in your reading of 1 Tim 2; if you don't, fine, but please don't try to prove to me that it simply isn't there.
Either way, I don't find your position compelling. I consider the sacrifice of Jesus to be highly logical. I can see how most people would find it emotionally abhorrent, but that is a different issue. As to inspiration, I haven't claimed anything to the contrary, so your point is moot.
"Hard to understand" is a great way to describe 1 Timothy 2. It seems that you're using it to denigrate my intelligence; I can throw that ball at you just as easily. Perhaps instead you could consider the substance of my position and give a response consistent with your intelligence rather than your apparent desire to prove me wrong?
If I were to take your position to its logical conclusion, I would have to conclude that you park your intelligence at the door when you go into church. Jesus said to love God with our hearts and minds. I see a non sequitur in your reading of 1 Tim 2; if you don't, fine, but please don't try to prove to me that it simply isn't there.
Hi yellyroll123, in deed today the most would say they can. From scripture I cant find a support for woman as eldesn.
You mentioned " dictatorship". If you read in the NT the verses which talk about how a eldest should be, then you will find that an eldest is far from an dictator. And if you read how a husband should be in concern to his wife ( Ephesians 5) then you cant find a " dictator" . So as a ship can not be ruled from two captains a marrige cant function) At least somebody has to take the responibillity for the decision. And why the man has this role? Then read genesis 3. I know many will not agree with that. But this is what bible says.
You mentioned " dictatorship". If you read in the NT the verses which talk about how a eldest should be, then you will find that an eldest is far from an dictator. And if you read how a husband should be in concern to his wife ( Ephesians 5) then you cant find a " dictator" . So as a ship can not be ruled from two captains a marrige cant function) At least somebody has to take the responibillity for the decision. And why the man has this role? Then read genesis 3. I know many will not agree with that. But this is what bible says.
I have only given you the word of God. Disregard it at your peril.
You have endeavored to judge my motives. I have not treated you in like fashion.
Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
How you got Junia is an apostle from this is just plain sloppy reading of the text. Again in 1 Cor 1 you take leave of reading the text and create a meaning that suits your purpose at the expense of what is simply written.
I do not know who your pastor happens to be but you are not credit to their teaching of doctrine. Truth to you apparently means that which agrees with what you want the text to say.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You have endeavored to judge my motives. I have not treated you in like fashion.
Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
How you got Junia is an apostle from this is just plain sloppy reading of the text. Again in 1 Cor 1 you take leave of reading the text and create a meaning that suits your purpose at the expense of what is simply written.
I do not know who your pastor happens to be but you are not credit to their teaching of doctrine. Truth to you apparently means that which agrees with what you want the text to say.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
stonesoffire has spoken. Chuck out the bibles! Relax friend! Just joking!
In all seriousness: I see the Scriptures clearly forbid women from being pastors, I have checked "the greek" and it is in ALL MANUSCRIPTS we have. So it is quite clear.
But on a practical level I know of a story where some men were sent as missionaries to an island and they were EATEN, yes. Regardless of the horrible fate of the men, their wives went there and evangelized these people. Surely that had to include teaching which is specifically forbidden 1 Timothy 2:12?
But are we to say that what those women did was WRONG? That evangelizing those people was WRONG? I dare not say so.
I am extremely conflicted on this subject. On one hand I see the bible clearly forbid it, yet on one hand I have experience and have heard of others' experiences where God's work has been done through women.
I hope no one gets offended at my opinion! It is just that.
In all seriousness: I see the Scriptures clearly forbid women from being pastors, I have checked "the greek" and it is in ALL MANUSCRIPTS we have. So it is quite clear.
But on a practical level I know of a story where some men were sent as missionaries to an island and they were EATEN, yes. Regardless of the horrible fate of the men, their wives went there and evangelized these people. Surely that had to include teaching which is specifically forbidden 1 Timothy 2:12?
But are we to say that what those women did was WRONG? That evangelizing those people was WRONG? I dare not say so.
I am extremely conflicted on this subject. On one hand I see the bible clearly forbid it, yet on one hand I have experience and have heard of others' experiences where God's work has been done through women.
I hope no one gets offended at my opinion! It is just that.
I think 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 is quite clear on the qualifications of who pastors a local church.
I think it's reasonable to assume the Lord is offended whenever anyone promotes things that are false.
Maybe not offended, but He's surely not too happy about it.
The churches continuing oppression and suppression of women is a very unfortunate thing. It's primarily due to two sections of scripture, 1 Cor 14:34-35 and 1 Tim 2:10ff.
There is evidence that 1 Cor 14:34-35 are not original to the text. If anyone wants to read about it, google "authenticity of 1 Cor 14:34-35".
And there is another way to understand 1 Tim 2:12. Here is one article on it: Defusing the 1 Timothy 2:12 Bomb - The Junia Project
I realize that probably very few here can or will accept either of these.
Doesn't change the truth.
It's very unfortunate that according to most of Christianity over 50% of the church is not qualified to lead or teach simply because they were born women.
Maybe not offended, but He's surely not too happy about it.
The churches continuing oppression and suppression of women is a very unfortunate thing. It's primarily due to two sections of scripture, 1 Cor 14:34-35 and 1 Tim 2:10ff.
There is evidence that 1 Cor 14:34-35 are not original to the text. If anyone wants to read about it, google "authenticity of 1 Cor 14:34-35".
And there is another way to understand 1 Tim 2:12. Here is one article on it: Defusing the 1 Timothy 2:12 Bomb - The Junia Project
I realize that probably very few here can or will accept either of these.
Doesn't change the truth.
It's very unfortunate that according to most of Christianity over 50% of the church is not qualified to lead or teach simply because they were born women.
I will also suggest that the reason many women rose to fill the ranks of Pastor, Elder , Teacher at church started in the early very late 70's and early 80's when men decided to stop being spiritual leaders in their homes and their churches. Also contributing to this is when churches stopped having Sunday Night services.
Even now denominations are struggling finding enough men to ordain.
Even now denominations are struggling finding enough men to ordain.
Good article! Thanks for posting! I have also come to the same conclusions, based on my advanced Greek studies! Something I wrote and posted here before.
I have said this so many times I am getting tired of it. People take an English translation and read into the text what is NOT there in the original language. They forget the context and rip verses out of their setting and who the book was written to!
Paul wrote the epistles to the various churches he founded and had pastored. In Corinthians, example, he writes to the church in Corinth. He addresses addresses various issues, including the sins of certain men.
"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife." 1 Cor. 5:1.
In 1 Timothy he also addresses specific sins to two men.
"Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme." 1 Tim. 1:20
"Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will repay him for what he has done." 1 Tim. 4:14
In fact, I have heard it said that there was a woman in Ephesus who was causing great harm in the church, but Paul did not name her, because he hoped to have her restored to the fellowship. What is extremely important about this verse, is that it does not apply to ALL women!! It is about A woman who is causing problems in the church.
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." 1Tim 2:11-12
It does not say SOME women or ALL women, but is addressed to A (singular) woman who was causing problems, probably a former priestess of Artemis. The pronoun SHE in the latter part of the verse is also singular because that is the tense of the verb. If Paul was wanting to address all women, for all time, he would have used the plural from of the verb and made it a continuing tense.
The first verb in Greek which then applies to following verses in this passage is LEARN. This is μανθανέτω, or manthaneto*. Because the third person pronoun is contained within the verb in Greek, I will examine this verb and the parsing is as follows:
PRESENT - That means it has to happen, NOW, - not the future or the past
IMPERATIVE - a woman is commanded to do this
ACTIVE - Means that the person must do it- it is not done to her
3 PERSON - he, she, it (in the singular) they (plural)
SINGULAR - ONE person only!!
Therefore the GREEK is very clear in saying that it is something that this woman is commanded to do NOW!! It is not forever, it is not continuing (Imperfect), it is not past or future. Properly it should be translated "LET HER".
ONE WOMAN, ONE PERSON - time is right now - in Ephesus in the 1st century AD.
I do hope some of you will take the time to read this. As I have said in so many places - (and NOT just about women), without a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew, you are depending on the personal bias of the translator. Although in this case, it is a pretty good translation. Single, present, and oh yes. Paul is personally commanding it to this woman, which also means it is a personal command, addressed to a single person, in a specific church -Ephesus! When we read the personal letters of Paul, which 1 & 2 Timothy both are, the hermeneutics is that he is talking directly to Timothy, the young pastor, about how to deal with specific situations - men who are bad and a woman who needs to be corrected!
As far as the word "authority" which has been a constant debate in this forum, and used by men to suppress women, mock them and put them down, we need to look in depth at the word!
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet." 1 Tim. 2:12 ESV
"διδάσκειν δὲ γυναικὶ οὐκ ἐπιτρέπω, οὐδὲ αὐθεντεῖν ἀνδρός, ἀλλ’ εἶναι ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ.
The word AUTHORITY here is a hapax legomena. That means it appears only ONCE in the whole Bible. It is not the usual word in the New Testament for authority, which is exousia ἐξουσίᾳ.
Instead, we have a word which cannot be translated in terms of the way it is in other Bible verses, but translators have to turn to other contemporaneous sources to find out what the word means.
The word is authentein, αύθεντείν in Greek. According to Rogers Jr and Rogers III, it means anything from "to act on one's own authority, to exercise authority, to murder, to domineer, to be an autocrat."* So ALL of these terms suggest that a woman is not to be without God's authority, nor dominate or be an autocrat over a man.
Contextually, this is very important, because Timothy was the pastor in Ephesus, which was the home of the goddess Artemis or Diana. The temple of Artemis was one of the seven wonders of the ancient world, and Paul had already had run-ins with their silversmiths, who resented that Paul was pulling people away from worship of Artemis and not needing their idols. (See Acts 19)
Now the big thing about these worshipers of Artemis, was that the temple was run by wild priestesses. They wore their hair long and unruly and they did some nasty things to men in the name of their idol.
So imagine if some of them get saved, or pretend to be saved, and came into a church, and start domineering and doing all kinds of cultic things. Well, I agree these women should not be in control. They should not be exercising authority over anyone. They need to unlearn a LOT of things!
So Paul was right to tell Timothy in a private letter, to kindly keep these women under control in Ephesus. Does this one verse apply to ALL women for ALL time? Well, I think it is best that neither men nor women dominate. So in that sense, it is universal. But because Paul picked this word - the ONLY time he used it in all his letters, he was not talking about any kind of authority given by God. That would be exousia.
As far as the word translated "silent" in the KJV and other versions, ESV has it right, according to Bauer, BAGD**, the word ἡσυχίᾳ, should be translated as "quiet, well-ordered." That does not mean being absolutely silent. It means speaking at the right time.
Finally, it should be remembered that in that culture, women were not educated, and were little more than slaves or property. When they became Christians, they became equal with men (Gal 3:28) and they were joint heirs with Christ. BUT, they were not educated, and learning was essential. Most of the women could not read or write, and thus it was important for them to be instructed by men who were educated. Thank God, we are now educated, and we are able to understand, study and read the Bible for ourselves.
Now the men may not listen, because they do not understand the context or the Greek. Those who try and restrict women from ministry may threaten us, call us names, but God will deal with them in his time, for their discouragement and for trying to hold back the calling of God.
*The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament, Cleon Rogers Jr, and Cleon Rogers III, Zondervan Publishing House, 1998.
**A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature: Revised by Frederick William Danker based on Walter Bauer's German version. The University of Chicago Press, 2000.
I have said this so many times I am getting tired of it. People take an English translation and read into the text what is NOT there in the original language. They forget the context and rip verses out of their setting and who the book was written to!
Paul wrote the epistles to the various churches he founded and had pastored. In Corinthians, example, he writes to the church in Corinth. He addresses addresses various issues, including the sins of certain men.
"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife." 1 Cor. 5:1.
In 1 Timothy he also addresses specific sins to two men.
"Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme." 1 Tim. 1:20
"Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will repay him for what he has done." 1 Tim. 4:14
In fact, I have heard it said that there was a woman in Ephesus who was causing great harm in the church, but Paul did not name her, because he hoped to have her restored to the fellowship. What is extremely important about this verse, is that it does not apply to ALL women!! It is about A woman who is causing problems in the church.
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." 1Tim 2:11-12
It does not say SOME women or ALL women, but is addressed to A (singular) woman who was causing problems, probably a former priestess of Artemis. The pronoun SHE in the latter part of the verse is also singular because that is the tense of the verb. If Paul was wanting to address all women, for all time, he would have used the plural from of the verb and made it a continuing tense.
The first verb in Greek which then applies to following verses in this passage is LEARN. This is μανθανέτω, or manthaneto*. Because the third person pronoun is contained within the verb in Greek, I will examine this verb and the parsing is as follows:
PRESENT - That means it has to happen, NOW, - not the future or the past
IMPERATIVE - a woman is commanded to do this
ACTIVE - Means that the person must do it- it is not done to her
3 PERSON - he, she, it (in the singular) they (plural)
SINGULAR - ONE person only!!
Therefore the GREEK is very clear in saying that it is something that this woman is commanded to do NOW!! It is not forever, it is not continuing (Imperfect), it is not past or future. Properly it should be translated "LET HER".
ONE WOMAN, ONE PERSON - time is right now - in Ephesus in the 1st century AD.
I do hope some of you will take the time to read this. As I have said in so many places - (and NOT just about women), without a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew, you are depending on the personal bias of the translator. Although in this case, it is a pretty good translation. Single, present, and oh yes. Paul is personally commanding it to this woman, which also means it is a personal command, addressed to a single person, in a specific church -Ephesus! When we read the personal letters of Paul, which 1 & 2 Timothy both are, the hermeneutics is that he is talking directly to Timothy, the young pastor, about how to deal with specific situations - men who are bad and a woman who needs to be corrected!
As far as the word "authority" which has been a constant debate in this forum, and used by men to suppress women, mock them and put them down, we need to look in depth at the word!
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet." 1 Tim. 2:12 ESV
"διδάσκειν δὲ γυναικὶ οὐκ ἐπιτρέπω, οὐδὲ αὐθεντεῖν ἀνδρός, ἀλλ’ εἶναι ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ.
The word AUTHORITY here is a hapax legomena. That means it appears only ONCE in the whole Bible. It is not the usual word in the New Testament for authority, which is exousia ἐξουσίᾳ.
Instead, we have a word which cannot be translated in terms of the way it is in other Bible verses, but translators have to turn to other contemporaneous sources to find out what the word means.
The word is authentein, αύθεντείν in Greek. According to Rogers Jr and Rogers III, it means anything from "to act on one's own authority, to exercise authority, to murder, to domineer, to be an autocrat."* So ALL of these terms suggest that a woman is not to be without God's authority, nor dominate or be an autocrat over a man.
Contextually, this is very important, because Timothy was the pastor in Ephesus, which was the home of the goddess Artemis or Diana. The temple of Artemis was one of the seven wonders of the ancient world, and Paul had already had run-ins with their silversmiths, who resented that Paul was pulling people away from worship of Artemis and not needing their idols. (See Acts 19)
Now the big thing about these worshipers of Artemis, was that the temple was run by wild priestesses. They wore their hair long and unruly and they did some nasty things to men in the name of their idol.
So imagine if some of them get saved, or pretend to be saved, and came into a church, and start domineering and doing all kinds of cultic things. Well, I agree these women should not be in control. They should not be exercising authority over anyone. They need to unlearn a LOT of things!
So Paul was right to tell Timothy in a private letter, to kindly keep these women under control in Ephesus. Does this one verse apply to ALL women for ALL time? Well, I think it is best that neither men nor women dominate. So in that sense, it is universal. But because Paul picked this word - the ONLY time he used it in all his letters, he was not talking about any kind of authority given by God. That would be exousia.
As far as the word translated "silent" in the KJV and other versions, ESV has it right, according to Bauer, BAGD**, the word ἡσυχίᾳ, should be translated as "quiet, well-ordered." That does not mean being absolutely silent. It means speaking at the right time.
Finally, it should be remembered that in that culture, women were not educated, and were little more than slaves or property. When they became Christians, they became equal with men (Gal 3:28) and they were joint heirs with Christ. BUT, they were not educated, and learning was essential. Most of the women could not read or write, and thus it was important for them to be instructed by men who were educated. Thank God, we are now educated, and we are able to understand, study and read the Bible for ourselves.
Now the men may not listen, because they do not understand the context or the Greek. Those who try and restrict women from ministry may threaten us, call us names, but God will deal with them in his time, for their discouragement and for trying to hold back the calling of God.
*The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament, Cleon Rogers Jr, and Cleon Rogers III, Zondervan Publishing House, 1998.
**A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature: Revised by Frederick William Danker based on Walter Bauer's German version. The University of Chicago Press, 2000.
Your right...there is no evidence found where a woman should have or has authority over a man in the Lords' churches....what is even more unfortunate is the fact that people will reject the obvious truths, lessons of history, and the modus operandi and qualifications of a Bishop in order to espouse something the bible does not support.
Women can prophesy, right? So, maybe they can also preach provided we can demonstrate that prophesying includes preaching. Below are portions of my posts under the thread “Does the gift of prophecy include preaching?”
Paul wanted all Christians to prophesy because the one who prophesies builds up the church. What was he mainly talking about? Prediction of future events; revelation of unknown information; or preaching, teaching and exhorting?
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
Many teachers say that PREACHING IS NOT PROPHESYING.
What they say is unquestionable if we consider pastors who deliver microwave sermons, for example. But I don't think this is what God intends preachers to do; I think preachers are supposed to seek God's guidance in every way, especially with respect to the topic of the sermon. Only God knows the hearts of everyone and He knows what we need to hear.
If we preach according to God's guidance we are actually prophesying. I attend a rather fundamentalist church and they permit women to deliver the sermon when no male preacher has received any revelation from God on what to preach. If their policy is biblically correct, this would mean that women can preach (prophesy = preach).
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
The word PREACH is used to translate three different words in Greek: KERYSSO, KERYGMA and DIDÁSKEIN.
KERYSSO is used when we preach the Gospel to unbelievers;
KERYGMA means to PROCLAIM (e.g.: John the Baptist proclaimed a message in the Desert);
DIDÁSKEIN means to TEACH.
In my opinion PROPHECY includes PREACHING because every preacher should have a revelation from God before he starts preaching.
The problem is that Paul does not allow women to PREACH (TEACH/DIDÁSKEIN) to adult males.
Hopefully I'm wrong because I like to see women preaching.
Paul wanted all Christians to prophesy because the one who prophesies builds up the church. What was he mainly talking about? Prediction of future events; revelation of unknown information; or preaching, teaching and exhorting?
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
Many teachers say that PREACHING IS NOT PROPHESYING.
What they say is unquestionable if we consider pastors who deliver microwave sermons, for example. But I don't think this is what God intends preachers to do; I think preachers are supposed to seek God's guidance in every way, especially with respect to the topic of the sermon. Only God knows the hearts of everyone and He knows what we need to hear.
If we preach according to God's guidance we are actually prophesying. I attend a rather fundamentalist church and they permit women to deliver the sermon when no male preacher has received any revelation from God on what to preach. If their policy is biblically correct, this would mean that women can preach (prophesy = preach).
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
The word PREACH is used to translate three different words in Greek: KERYSSO, KERYGMA and DIDÁSKEIN.
KERYSSO is used when we preach the Gospel to unbelievers;
KERYGMA means to PROCLAIM (e.g.: John the Baptist proclaimed a message in the Desert);
DIDÁSKEIN means to TEACH.
In my opinion PROPHECY includes PREACHING because every preacher should have a revelation from God before he starts preaching.
The problem is that Paul does not allow women to PREACH (TEACH/DIDÁSKEIN) to adult males.
Hopefully I'm wrong because I like to see women preaching.
Men are called to minister the word of God in the assembly. Women can be called to minister the word of God outside the assembly.
Genesis 3:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
The men's rule over women has to do with the consequence of Adam heeding the voice of his wife for why women cannot lead in the ministry.
We see this is still carried on even in the N.T.
1 Corinthians 11:[SUP]2 [/SUP]Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Ephesians 5:[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.[SUP] 23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.[SUP] 24 [/SUP]Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
1 Timothy 2:[SUP]11[/SUP]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.[SUP] 13 [/SUP]For Adam was first formed, then Eve.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.[SUP]36 [/SUP]What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?[SUP]37 [/SUP]If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
If you consider how valuable social ministry by the women can bring more converts as well as keep members coming into the church, and the invaluable ministry of raising up God fearing children in the Lord, then they really should not be coveting the role of the men's ministry in the churches.
Proverbs 22:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
Matthew 10:24And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
Matthew 25:[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
There is a warning given in the Book of Revelation to the saints at Thaytira that suffered a woman to teach ...
Revelation 2:20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Churches as well as woman should play it safe and lean on Jesus Christ for help and guidance in following Him & His words in the ministry.
Genesis 3:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
The men's rule over women has to do with the consequence of Adam heeding the voice of his wife for why women cannot lead in the ministry.
We see this is still carried on even in the N.T.
1 Corinthians 11:[SUP]2 [/SUP]Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Ephesians 5:[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.[SUP] 23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.[SUP] 24 [/SUP]Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
1 Timothy 2:[SUP]11[/SUP]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.[SUP] 13 [/SUP]For Adam was first formed, then Eve.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.[SUP]36 [/SUP]What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?[SUP]37 [/SUP]If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
If you consider how valuable social ministry by the women can bring more converts as well as keep members coming into the church, and the invaluable ministry of raising up God fearing children in the Lord, then they really should not be coveting the role of the men's ministry in the churches.
Proverbs 22:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
Matthew 10:24And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
Matthew 25:[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
There is a warning given in the Book of Revelation to the saints at Thaytira that suffered a woman to teach ...
Revelation 2:20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Churches as well as woman should play it safe and lean on Jesus Christ for help and guidance in following Him & His words in the ministry.
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