Where Is Christ's Presence In Communion?

[Enow]

Where is Christ's Presence?

2 Corinthians 13:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Where isn't Christ's Presence? I believe these verses below can also be applied to reproving the false belief that Christ's Presence are in the sacraments or as some just refer to the bread & the wine.

Matthew 24:[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.[SUP] 25 [/SUP]Behold, I have told you before.[SUP]26 [/SUP]Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:[SUP] 3 [/SUP]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So if you confirm with Him at that throne of grace, there is no receiving Christ again by way of the sacraments. They really need to drop that Catholic word, sacrament, if a Protestant wish to have his faith shine apart.

2 Corinthians 11:[SUP]3 [/SUP]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

All He and Paul ever taught was to do communion in remembrance of Him, and that truth is He is in us, is a part of what He has done for us.

I do not believe that the Reformation got rid of everything "Catholic" when Protestants had left the RCC.

My former Presbyterian church used to have begun the communion service in this way, "We come into His Presence today...". They may still be doing that, I do not know, but discern with Him what was just said.

It is not taught to say that in the Bible when having communion and so this was an extra man made saying added to the practice in holding communion in a Protestant church.

Are we really coming into His Presence at communion? Is He not in us and is with us always since our salvation? Then there is no coming into His Presence in communion, now is there? Should our words reflect our faith? Because certainly, after communion, we are not going away from His Presence.

Some people say that is being legalistic, but I say should we say what we really mean or not in regards to our faith in Jesus Christ? Is it not a lie to say we are coming into His Presence each communion as if His Presence is not in us?

Matthew 12:[SUP]35 [/SUP]A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.[SUP]36 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.[SUP]37 [/SUP]For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Matthew 15:[SUP]18 [/SUP]But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.[SUP]19 [/SUP]For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: [SUP]20 [/SUP]These are the things which defile a man:

Please pray at that throne of grace to confirm His words to you in how you should be receiving communion; and when you should not be receiving communion. You can even pray that your church will heed His words & repent.

Psalm 19:[SUP]12 [/SUP]Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.[SUP] 13 [/SUP]Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.

 

[oldethennew]

it can ONLY be planted inside of our hearts, in our Love and Surrender to Him...

 

[Nehemiah6]

Are we really coming into His Presence at communion? Is He not in us and is with us always since our salvation? Then there is no coming into His Presence in communion, now is there? Should our words reflect our faith? Because certainly, after communion, we are not going away from His Presence.

While Christ is within every believer, He is also present in a very real and special way (in the Spirit) when believers gather for worship (few or many):

King James Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (Mt 18:20)

However, the word sacrament is incorrect, because it implies that the Lord's Supper is "a means of grace" (as taught by the RCC and others). It is a Christian ordinance, just like believer's baptism.

 

[Enow]

While Christ is within every believer, He is also present in a very real and special way (in the Spirit) when believers gather for worship (few or many):

King James Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (Mt 18:20)

However, the word sacrament is incorrect, because it implies that the Lord's Supper is "a means of grace" (as taught by the RCC and others). It is a Christian ordinance, just like believer's baptism.

Then how can you discern from the spirit of the antichrist that is in the world? 1 John 4:3-4

1 John 4:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So let us take that your reference in context for the actual meaning in His words.

Matthew 18:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Whenever the Lord Jesus talks about the Holy Spirit or refers to the Holy Spirit, He separates the Holy Spirit from Himself by referring to the Holy Spirit as "he" or "him". Jesus is saying "I" in verse 20 in referring to Himself.

Greek scholars have applied "midst" as it is used in that verse to mean "in between" us in being our Mediator to the Father rather than what most Bible readers mean to say as if in Spirit, Jesus is among the assembly of believers but outside the believers in that assembly.

That would be a mistake to apply Matthew 18:20 in that way for then no one can test the spirits nor draw that line of discernment. There is no need for the Holy Spirit to be outside the believers in the assembly where the spirit of the antichrist is. We will know Him by Him dwelling within us; and not as the world knows in sensing other spirits.

John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

This is why the "holy laughter" movement went across the denomenation in 1994 as no longer just confined to Pentecostal/Charismatics churches, but happening in Catholic and Protestant churches. There is a Methodist church that calls for the Holy Spirit to come, and try as I might to correct the pastor, he would not listen. My former Presbyterian church did the same thing at one time as well at a seasonal service.

Please take note; when any church practice praying for the Holy Spirit to come and the "holy laughter" happens, you, that pastor, and any body in that congregation that knows better that this is not the Holy Spirit will have a hard time convincing let alone reproving members and those who don't know any better, to go after it and preach it.

That is why the examination of our faith has to be in this wise.

2 Corinthians 13:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

There is no other testimony, otherwise, you open the door for the devil to devour; and it did across the denomenation in 1994.

I agree with you about using the word sacrament for why we should not use it. This is why Protestant should drop the term if they wish their faith to shine apart from the works of catholicism.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Then how can you discern from the spirit of the antichrist that is in the world? 1 John 4:3-4

Why do you bring the "spirit of antichrist" into this subject? It has no relevance. Jesus said that when believers gather IN HIS NAME -- gather to worship Christ and the Godhead -- He is indeed present in a special way. End of story. The Catholic Church has perverted the Lord's Supper, but the basic principle of His presence remains. Also, the central event of Christian worship was the Lord's Supper on a weekly basis. So Christ was present with every gathering of Christians at the Lord's Supper on the Lord's Table and on the Lord's Day. Do you see how it all fits together?

 

[Enow]

Why do you bring the "spirit of antichrist" into this subject? It has no relevance. Jesus said that when believers gather IN HIS NAME -- gather to worship Christ and the Godhead -- He is indeed present in a special way. End of story. The Catholic Church has perverted the Lord's Supper, but the basic principle of His presence remains. Also, the central event of Christian worship was the Lord's Supper on a weekly basis. So Christ was present with every gathering of Christians at the Lord's Supper on the Lord's Table and on the Lord's Day. Do you see how it all fits together?

It has relevance when you insist that Christ's Presence can be among believers like some spook among the assembly where the spirit of the antichrist dwells which is outside of us.

Your reference Matthew 18:18-20 in context was about prayer; and how Jesus will serve as our Mediator in that way.

Christ is always present within us ; not outside of us where the spirit of the antichrist dwells. 1 John 4:4

Applying Matthew 18:20 in that way as you did, voids the truth and the line of discernment in 1 John 4:3-4

 

[mcubed]

You know what the church calls communion is actually passover!?! Communion is not even real. With that said. I have close friends that take communion in private at home and G-d shows up for them. There is something to repentance of sin and remembering the cross and G-d honors it... always. People that do it like fools without repentance,like the Scripture says, brings a curse on themselves. Those that remember passover and what the church calls communion G-d honors.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It has relevance when you insist that Christ's Presence can be among believers like some spook among the assembly where the spirit of the antichrist dwells which is outside of us.

All I can say is that you are thoroughly confused about this matter.

Christ can not only be in every believer, but He is also seated at the right hand of the Father, and He is also present in a very real and special way when Christians gather in His name to worship. Since He is also God, He is present throughout the universe. None of these things contradict the others.

By constantly referring to the spirit of antichrist (which you do not even seem to fully understand) you are undermining what Scripture plainly reveals. Shame on you. The spirit of antichrist DENIES that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. On the other hand the Lord's Supper affirms that not only did Jesus Christ come in the flesh, but the bread represents His Body broken for you.

 

[pottersclay]

While Christ is within every believer, He is also present in a very real and special way (in the Spirit) when believers gather for worship (few or many):

King James Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (Mt 18:20)

However, the word sacrament is incorrect, because it implies that the Lord's Supper is "a means of grace" (as taught by the RCC and others). It is a Christian ordinance, just like believer's baptism.

.

I thought we were to be found in him?

 

[notuptome]

You know what the church calls communion is actually passover!?! Communion is not even real. With that said. I have close friends that take communion in private at home and G-d shows up for them. There is something to repentance of sin and remembering the cross and G-d honors it... always. People that do it like fools without repentance,like the Scripture says, brings a curse on themselves. Those that remember passover and what the church calls communion G-d honors.

Passover was celebrated once a year. Christ said to eat as oft as you do it in remembrance of Me. The roots of communion are in Passover but they are not the same thing nor are they serving the same purpose.

New covenant. Old things done away and all things made new in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Enow]

I have close friends that take communion in private at home and G-d shows up for them. ................ Those that remember passover and what the church calls communion G-d honors.

Not when they believe God shows up at communion; no, He does not honor that kind of communion when they are forgetting what He has done for Him to be in them before, during, and after communion since salvation.

 

[Enow]

All I can say is that you are thoroughly confused about this matter.

Christ can not only be in every believer, but He is also seated at the right hand of the Father, and He is also present in a very real and special way when Christians gather in His name to worship. Since He is also God, He is present throughout the universe. None of these things contradict the others.

Except now you can't test for the spirit of the antichrist which is in the world as in outside of us. You just made the test from the apostle John moot in 1 John 4:1-6.

Christ is in ushend Christ is at that throne of grace above; and so there is no need for Christ's Presence to be felt among the believers in teh assembly when He is in us.

By constantly referring to the spirit of antichrist (which you do not even seem to fully understand) you are undermining what Scripture plainly reveals. Shame on you. The spirit of antichrist DENIES that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. On the other hand the Lord's Supper affirms that not only did Jesus Christ come in the flesh, but the bread represents His Body broken for you.

Yet you fail to comprehend how to test for the spirits which are the spirits of the antichrist which is in the world.

1 John 4:2 is the same thing as saying 2 Corinthians 13:5 as to where the Spirit of Christ is presently. Remember; this is about testing spirits; not false prophets; but spirits that those false prophets promotes to receive ( 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 )

The phrase "is come in the flesh" is indeed, referring to Christ in us presently. This is not about false prophets that go around denying that Jesus Christ had ever come in the flesh ( past tense ) but "is come in the flesh".

You read 1 John 4:3 for those that confess NOT presently that Jesus is come in the flesh are those promoting the spirit of the antichrist which is in the world; outside of us.

Communion does not have Christ's Presence in the bread nor the wine les you make them idols and you might as well keep the Catholic word "sacrament" as a result. That would be the same as preaching another Jesus or another spirit to receive.

Please go before that throne of grace because all Jesus said to do communion for was in remembrance of Him.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You know what the church calls communion is actually passover!?! Communion is not even real. With that said. I have close friends that take communion in private at home and G-d shows up for them. There is something to repentance of sin and remembering the cross and G-d honors it... always. People that do it like fools without repentance,like the Scripture says, brings a curse on themselves. Those that remember passover and what the church calls communion G-d honors.

Jesus said 'do this in remembrance of Me' and yes, He is our passover Lamb

IMO, the church is many miles away from what Jesus led His disciples to do

a quick 10 minute 'remembrance' is more like 'and oh yeah Jesus said we should do this too so we had better get to it'

what do you mean 'do it without repentance'? repentance and the Lord's supper are 2 different issues IMO

we are not remembering passover, it is Jesus that we 'remember'...at least according to His own desire expressed at the
"last supper"

 

[7seasrekeyed]

.

I thought we were to be found in him?

it's both as scripture says it is both

you cannot be found IN Christ, without His Spirit IN you

both

 

[Enow]

.

I thought we were to be found in him?

Just as He is to be found in us; not outside of us in the world. We cannot get closer to God than Him being in us. So there is no need for Christ's Presence to be in the assembly to be felt outside of us where the spirit of the antichrist, otherwise we cannot test the spirits for the spirits of the antichrist which is in the world ( 1 John 4:3-4 )

 

[oldethennew]

our 'communion' with our Holy Saviour started in The Garden,
where He made us from...

He has given us a choice,,,may we HONOR HIM and SERVE HIM,
if we truly understand such Holy Love...

 

[Nehemiah6]

. I thought we were to be found in him?

So how does that contradict His special presence during worship and at the Lord's Supper? Only those who are found in Him can partake of that Supper, and while they worship, Christ is in their midst in a very real and special way (as He promised). While Catholics talk about His "real presence" in the elements, Christians talk about His real presence in the gathering of believers itself. He presides over the Feast.

As to this ongoing issue about the "spirit of antichrist", I believe that that evil spirit is trying to mislead Christians through disputing about this matter. Apart from the Lord's Supper, Christians are commanded to try or test the spirits, whether they be of God. So if someone walks into your church and begins to attack the Deity of Christ, and the real humanity of Christ, or the truth about the triune Godhead, that person is bringing the spirit of antichrist into your midst, and should be rebuked accordingly.

 

[prove-all]

this do in remembrance of me
this is the start of the 14th

1Co 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you,
That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat:
this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1Co 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped,
saying, This cup is the [new testament] in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it,
in remembrance of me.

referring back to this...

Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat
this [passover with you] before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not
any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

Luk 22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said,
Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

Luk 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine,
until the kingdom of God shall come.

Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them,
saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying,
This cup is [the new testament] in my blood, which is shed for you.


Do what in remembrance of me? They were taking the Passover.
Jesus changed the symbles of the passover only, did not do away with it.

The Passover service also consists of the foot washing...

Joh 13:12 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments,
and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
Joh 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
Joh 13:14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet;
ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

Joh 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord;
neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Joh 13:17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.
and then Paul says this...

1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth
the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump,
as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep [the feast],
not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness;
but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

And he said that to a Gentile church, to keep the feast of unleavened bread.


Acts 12:3 (KJV)
And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also.
(Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

Acts 20:6 (KJV)
And we sailed away from Philippi after (the days of unleavened bread),
and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.

I
n scripture the Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread are taught.

first passover was when God covered Adams nakedness[type of sin]
with skins from an animal, shead blood.

the Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread was a memorial,
ordained forever, before one word of the old covenent was spoken

 

[Bogadile]

I believe that Christ's body and blood is truly present in, with, and under the bread and wine.

That is what I believe. That is almost word for word from the Augsburg confession by the way.

 

[mcubed]

Passover was celebrated once a year. Christ said to eat as oft as you do it in remembrance of Me. The roots of communion are in Passover but they are not the same thing nor are they serving the same purpose.

New covenant. Old things done away and all things made new in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Since Passover was commanded to by G-d to keep forever it has not stopped; in fact we still do it yearly and will never stop because of G-d's command and every Messianic does it in remembrance just like He commanded. Just out of curiosity what Scripture commands communion or even introduces it? Or is it something the church created?