Grace alone or grace plus works?

[loveme1]

Your allowed to post whatever you want. But this is a discussion forum, so if your afraid to be confronted by things you post. Maybe you better go someplace else.

What you posted was error. You should know better than that. ANd you shoudul have known someone would have responded to what you posted.

Afraid? No..

falsely accused by you? Very much so..

I did nothing wrong and produced Scripture.. you are on a crusade and will actually accuse a person of things they have not done and seem oblivious to it...

There was nothing to confront so you made a false accusation.. and you do not Repent.. you carry on in your deluded state of mind..

 

[loveme1]

I could start the Saved by Grace through Faith unto good works thread... missed you 7seas..

why Do you want to add works? Paul said saved by grace through faith apart from works. So why add to Paul’s words?

[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
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[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]Ephesians 2:8-10King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


have I really added or have I micro sized for the title of my would be thread?



Romans 3




27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it isone God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.



[/TD]
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[/TABLE]


What deeds do you think Paul is referring to.. I would suggest you read from verse 1 though I will not post it all..





We are Justified by Faith.. fact. Let us consider the Law of Faith a little more than Not by works of Righteousness which we have done.. considering even verse 8 of the shame chapter tells us that we who have Believed should be careful to maintain good works.. etc..



Titus 3

3For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

That is what was posted...

So confront me with facts or not at all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Afraid? No..

falsely accused by you? Very much so..

I did nothing wrong and produced Scripture.. you are on a crusade and will actually accuse a person of things they have not done and seem oblivious to it...

There was nothing to confront so you made a false accusation.. and you do not Repent.. you carry on in your deluded state of mind..

Excuse me, but salvation by grace through faith working in love in not scripture.

So get over yourself.

 

[Issachar92]

Excuse me, but salvation by grace through faith working in love in not scripture.

So get over yourself.

Lets see if faith alone is, oh I found it!

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

But dont worry guys it aint works salvation cause thats just talking about justification before men. Ya gotta read the context am I right? If you're truly saved by faith alone you produce works.
Thats why the bible tells us over and over to do things. I thought they come automatically?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is what was posted...

So confront me with facts or not at all.

I could start the Saved by Grace through Faith unto good works thread... missed you 7seas..

why Do you want to add works? Paul said saved by grace through faith apart from works. So why add to Paul’s words?

There we have it folks, false insinuation at its finest,

1. She Left her first post out
2. I did attack her, I asked a question.

she could have just said why, but no.. that must be too hard.

 

[BillG]

My thoughts are

If we understand the meaning of grace and it’s inference then salvation by/through grace is what saves us.
We cannot add to that, otherwise it’s not grace, if not grace then we negate what Jesus has done for us.

If we replace grace with anything else for salvation then it’s works and Jesus died in vain.

The grace that saved us is the same grace that empowers us.

It empowers us to want to be like Jesus.

As we focus on Jesus sin decreases in us and as a result our works that he has called us to increases.

We must be careful though to judge either in someone who professes faith in Jesus.

We all grow a different rates.
All those in the vine will produce fruit.
God is the vinedresser and he prunes according to his will and knowledge of what pruning needs doing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lets see if faith alone is, oh I found it!

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

But dont worry guys it aint works salvation cause thats just talking about justification before men. Ya gotta read the context am I right? If you're truly saved by faith alone you produce works.
Thats why the bible tells us over and over to do things. I thought they come automatically?

Who said faith is ever void of works?

Seems only the legalist claims one can hae faiht and not have works

 

[loveme1]

Excuse me, but salvation by grace through faith working in love in not scripture.

So get over yourself.

There you go again.. changing what we are conversing about to suit yourself.. this is not about the Truth this is about you and i... and I don’t want to be drawn in to arguing and having to defend against falsehood.. I think for the sake of peace and unity and not this to continue I may have to use ignore for the first time ever in 6 years.. sad really... so I will consider the matter. It is not fair to everyone else to have to endure this.

 

[TruthTalk]

So you can only answer the question as it relates to you?
Is this true of all of us or just you?

I thought a personal testimony would help you understand how salvation "manifest's itself." which was your previous question. I seems now that I am talking to a 4yr old child with endless questions one after another; I have a sense that your questioning is not sincere please try asking another poster.

 

[1ofthem]

Could there be like a third option that says something like grace alone through faith which produces works. In my opinion, we are not saved by works. We are saved by grace through faith which produces works. Not that we should go around judging others or brag on our own works because it is through the grace of God that we are saved and it is God that works in us for good.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Could there be like a third option that says something like grace alone through faith which produces works. In my opinion, we are not saved by works. We are saved by grace through faith which produces works. Not that we should go around judging others or brag on our own works because it is through the grace of God that we are saved and it is God that works in us for good.

So your saying ALL who come to sis will work, thus salvation is secure?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There you go again.. changing what we are conversing about to suit yourself.. this is not about the Truth this is about you and i... and I don’t want to be drawn in to arguing and having to defend against falsehood.. I think for the sake of peace and unity and not this to continue I may have to use ignore for the first time ever in 6 years.. sad really... so I will consider the matter. It is not fair to everyone else to have to endure this.

You posted it.

enough said,

 

[TruthTalk]

If God can save by grace alone He does not need to give you or anyone else faith to fulfill His will.
Get over yourself.

Like wise, who are you to tell God what He does or does not need to do, very disturbing post.

 

[John146]

Could there be like a third option that says something like grace alone through faith which produces works. In my opinion, we are not saved by works. We are saved by grace through faith which produces works. Not that we should go around judging others or brag on our own works because it is through the grace of God that we are saved and it is God that works in us for good.

What kind of works prove one's salvation? How often? Throughout one's entire lifetime?

 

[Issachar92]

Lets try to make sense of the madness and confusion

Faith means fidelity, faithfulness, steadfastness, firmness, trust. All of that.

For by grace (thats something God grants) are ye saved, through faith (this is our part) not of works (like the pharisees were claiming in Acts 15:1 works of the law dont justify but faith working by love) lest any man should boast. (Genuine repentance does not cause boasting, but rather humbles us before God).

Disobedience and unbelief are the same thing.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Obedience and belief are the same thing.
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Read Hebrews 11 for a full break down of what faith is in action.

During the times of Noah when the world was in complete wickedness as it is prophecied to be before the Lord returns, Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

There is the grace part, and here is Noah's faith:

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

The example here is clear, Noah was saved by grace, through faith. Thats how the Hebrews understood it, had this happened in 2017 McDriveThrough christianity we would say we're not gonna build no boat, thats works and salvation is not of works, we're just gonna believe. But in reality, not building the boat exhibits LACK OF FAITH!
Read the entire chapter, its filled with similar examples. Another example:

Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

God's grace is being shown above, then by faith people who look at it, shall live. Thats how it happened to Israelites, but had this happened in 2017 McDriveThrough christianity, we would refuse to look at it because we're saved by grace and if we look at it, its works and we're not saved by works. Yet again in this example not looking at the serpent exhibits LACK OF FAITH!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So your saying ALL who come to sis will work, thus salvation is secure?

Come tp faith,. Auto correct kills me..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lets try to make sense of the madness and confusion

Faith means fidelity, faithfulness, steadfastness, firmness, trust. All of that.

For by grace (thats something God grants) are ye saved, through faith (this is our part) not of works (like the pharisees were claiming in Acts 15:1 works of the law dont justify but faith working by love) lest any man should boast. (Genuine repentance does not cause boasting, but rather humbles us before God).

Disobedience and unbelief are the same thing.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Obedience and belief are the same thing.
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Read Hebrews 11 for a full break down of what faith is in action.

During the times of Noah when the world was in complete wickedness as it is prophecied to be before the Lord returns, Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

There is the grace part, and here is Noah's faith:

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

The example here is clear, Noah was saved by grace, through faith. Thats how the Hebrews understood it, had this happened in 2017 McDriveThrough christianity we would say we're not gonna build no boat, thats works and salvation is not of works, we're just gonna believe. But in reality, not building the boat exhibits LACK OF FAITH!
Read the entire chapter, its filled with similar examples. Another example:

Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

God's grace is being shown above, then by faith people who look at it, shall live. Thats how it happened to Israelites, but had this happened in 2017 McDriveThrough christianity, they would refuse to look at it because they're saved by grace and if they look at it, its works and we're not saved by works. Yet again in this example not looking at the serpent exhibits LACK OF FAITH!

The works in eph 2 is not works of ther law. He di dnot says works of the law. He said works otherwise we can boast (to take credit)

john says anyone born of God does not sin, whoever sins does not know God.

This issue is people who say we maintain salvation by works. Not if a christians will wok, NO ONE DENIES THAT, well actually the workers do. They preach a saved child can stop worth and lose salvation.

 

[BillG]

Lets see if faith alone is, oh I found it!

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

But dont worry guys it aint works salvation cause thats just talking about justification before men. Ya gotta read the context am I right? If you're truly saved by faith alone you produce works.
Thats why the bible tells us over and over to do things. I thought they come automatically?

I would say yes and no.

Genuine faith saves alone apart of works.

By this I mean when we place our faith in Jesus we have no works that can save us.

It is the work of God that saves us

John 6:29


29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

For me as a result works and fruit will follow.
But not necessarily automatically.

For me the reasons are

Lack of discipleship.
As the Holy Spirit works in a person he needs furrow in a person. Till the soil.
Work in a person so the soil in the person will become fruitful.
As a result of this and we manifest the fruit of the Spirit then works will follow.

 

[1ofthem]

So your saying ALL who come to sis will work, thus salvation is secure?

Yeah, I think that is what I am trying to say...guess I'll need to explain my thoughts a little more on this...

I think that when we are saved which is only by the grace of God that we become new creations in God...We receive the Spirit and we begin to grow and acquire the fruits of the Spirit. Which essentially is love and goodness. Sin and the works of the flesh are no longer as appealing as they used to be and we begin to hate sin...not that we will never be tempted or make mistakes, But God begins his work within us and it does become evident in our lives that we are changed and are more Christ like. We want to please God by following him and being more like him. This includes caring about, loving, and genuinely wanting to help others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeah, I think that is what I am trying to say...guess I'll need to explain my thoughts a little more on this...

I think that when we are saved which is only by the grace of God that we become new creations in God...We receive the Spirit and we begin to grow and acquire the fruits of the Spirit. Which essentially is love and goodness. Sin and the works of the flesh are no longer as appealing as they used to be and we begin to hate sin...not that we will never be tempted or make mistakes, But God begins his work within us and it does become evident in our lives that we are changed and are more Christ like. We want to please God by following him and being more like him. This includes caring about, loving, and genuinely wanting to help others.

Amen, I agree 100 percent!