View Poll Results: Is salvation by Grace alone?

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  • Salvation Is by Grace alone through faith.

    42 87.50%
  • Salvation Is by Grace through faith plus works

    6 12.50%
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Thread: Grace alone or grace plus works?

  1. #861
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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    This statement is nothing more than your opinion based on the trust only regeneration theology. To accept this theology is to ignore the flow and form of the entire Bible. The labeling of obviously general statements as definitive is central to its acceptance. Your adding of "All-sufficient" to your understanding of 1st Cor. 15:1-4 & Romans 1:16 is a classic example of this mindset.
    Jesus Christ is the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. Believers are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus (Romans 3:24). That's not hard to understand. Just hard for you to ACCEPT because you are "trusting in works for salvation" and not in CHRIST ALONE.

    The word translated believe is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4100; pisteuō which means "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to *entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ).*

    The word translated faith is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4102; pistis; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), *especially reliance upon Christ for salvation;* abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

    The word "believe" can describe mere "mental assent belief," as in James 2:19, or also include "trust and reliance in Christ for salvation," as in Acts 16:31. In James 2:19, the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation.

    Yet since you seem to think that ALL belief is the same "except for the lack of works" and cannot grasp a DEEPER faith which trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation you fail to grasp the truth. This also explains why you have so much faith in "water and works."

    There is nothing in their wording to assume these verses are defintive. On the contrary, the lack of any words such as alone, only or solely is damning evidence of its general nature. The absence of even the level or nature of belief is more than enough to label them as simply general statements of the essence of Christianity. Any high school English composition student can easily see this.
    Your reasoning relies heavily upon faulty human logic and legalism. The only explanation of this barren spirituality is the absence of the Holy Spirit. This likewise explains your lack of a proper understanding of the Word of God (1 Corinthians 2:14).

    In other words, your reliance on general statements to defend a "all-sufficient" faith alone theology is far from convincing.
    It's only far from convincing to UNBELIEVERS, but it's not unconvincing to the body of Christ. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.

    The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

    2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    how do u get a renewed mind u see?????? im still waiting for mine. i heard its supposed to happen by itself when u believe the gospel...... what am i doing wrong, aside from the obvious? is there something special that i dont know u see??????

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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).
    Hello MMD, How can you preach the Gospel to others when you do not know what the Gospel is?

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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzungu256 View Post
    how do u get a renewed mind u see?????? im still waiting for mine. i heard its supposed to happen by itself when u believe the gospel...... what am i doing wrong, aside from the obvious? is there something special that i dont know u see??????
    Some scriptures to pray about Muz...

    Do you BELIEVE God's Word?

    Sin does indeed begin in the mind. Do you BELIEVE Jesus can set you free from sin as you BELIEVE HIS WORD?

    1Co 10:13

    There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

    2Co 10:5
    Casting down imaginations,and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

    Psa 119:11
    Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

    2Pet 1:4
    Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    When you BELIEVE the EXCEEDING GREAT AND PRECIOUS PROMISES ARE THESE......................

    Exodus 20
    1, And God spake all these words, saying,
    2, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.1
    3, Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
    4, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
    5, Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
    6, And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
    7, Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
    8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    9, Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
    12, Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
    13, Thou shalt not kill.
    14, Thou shalt not commit adultery.
    15, Thou shalt not steal.
    16, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
    17, Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

    BELIEVE HIS PROMISES TO YOU. Your FAITH will give you VICTORY to overcome the world

    May God bless you as you continue in His Word by FAITH in HIS Promises you walk in His Spirit through LOVE...

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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleGirl View Post
    Interesting question.
    First of all, I don't like the word "work" because it sounds like something physically and emotionally difficult to do.
    Jesus said that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. So it seems to me that if God asks us to do something, He will also give us the strength to do it.

    If you're doing good deeds, those Jesus would have you do as a born-again believer, then the reason why you're doing them seems to be unimportant to me.

    I do have difficulty with some verses which Jesus said.
    For instance Mathew 7:23
    Jesus tells some who practiced in His name to depart from Him. He said because they practiced lawlessness --- He didn't say because they didn't believe.

    In other words, if we say Jesus is our Lord, we do have to really follow Him and obey Him.

    Do YOU think that if I'm doing good deeds because I think it's necessary to continue in my salvation that I'm doing something wrong??

    A works by defenition is something you do to earn a wage (rom 4 confirms this)

    jesus said his burden is light to people who are saved, because there is no burden, your not judged by your works, your judged by your faith, so if you do something wrong as a child who is growing, there is no judgment, because your future is already assured. So you have power to get up off the floor get back on the horse and move forward. Not be tied down in fear of judgment, Thats why paul called his suffering a momentary light affliction, again, because his eternity was secured. You will not suffer tribulation and great pain when your unsure of your future. Nor will you continue to try to work, when you realise how much of a sinner you really are (which being a child of God will expose, the more you grow) as john even said, our continued belief is based on the fact we KNOW WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE!

    You keep using have to. Thats dangerous, if we have to, their is punishment if we do not. Thats not grace, thats works, thats law.

    You can not preach grace and then say we HAVE TO do something.

    Grace empowers, there is no IF or HAVE TO about it.. People will work. How much may vary greatly, but even the baby who will have all his works burned, shows love to the father and is loved by him..

    As for your question, Yes you are. You are depending on your works to maintain salvation, and not trusting in God to maintain your salavtion.

    Your also trusting in your power to do any work, and not relying on God to work through you.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  6. #866


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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Jesus Christ is the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. Believers are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus (Romans 3:24). That's not hard to understand. Just hard for you to ACCEPT because you are "trusting in works for salvation" and not in CHRIST ALONE.

    The word translated believe is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4100; pisteuō which means "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to *entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ).*

    The word translated faith is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4102; pistis; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), *especially reliance upon Christ for salvation;* abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

    The word "believe" can describe mere "mental assent belief," as in James 2:19, or also include "trust and reliance in Christ for salvation," as in Acts 16:31. In James 2:19, the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation.

    Yet since you seem to think that ALL belief is the same "except for the lack of works" and cannot grasp a DEEPER faith which trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation you fail to grasp the truth. This also explains why you have so much faith in "water and works."

    Your reasoning relies heavily upon faulty human logic and legalism. The only explanation of this barren spirituality is the absence of the Holy Spirit. This likewise explains your lack of a proper understanding of the Word of God (1 Corinthians 2:14).

    It's only far from convincing to UNBELIEVERS, but it's not unconvincing to the body of Christ. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.

    The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

    2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
    The word "believe" can describe mere "mental assent belief," as in James 2:19, or also include "trust and reliance in Christ for salvation," as in Acts 16:31.
    Regardless of how you see the word "believe" it is not the point. Whether "mental assent" or "trust in Christ for salvation" it is not written in the manner you are suggesting. Even if the meaning was "trust in Christ for salvation" that does not make the verse definitive. This is the weakness of trust only theology. Yes, we must trust in Christ for salvation that is clear but the verse is not written in a manner to assume that this must is all-sufficient. This is the assumption that is being overlooked. Only someone who wants this statement to be definitive will see it as such. If presented in a secular subject no one would declare it to be definitive. Example:

    "I am proud to work for the U.S. Postal Service, for the price of a stamp it is the power of the Federal government to quickly send mail anywhere, first to Americans and then the world"

    This is a true statement but certainly not a definitive one. Without the proper address and depositing the letter in a mailbox, all the stamps in the world will not get the letter delivered. You see Romans 1:16 and others as definitive not because they are but because you want them to be.

    Your reasoning relies heavily upon faulty human logic and legalism.
    Your reasoning relies heavily upon faulty English Composition skills and wishful thinking.


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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56). The works of the flesh is always labor and heavy laden (Matthew 11:28). This is the number one reason why 90% of Christians are curse.

    I do not frustrate the grace of God
    (cancel blessings): for if righteousness come by the law(what I do)
    , then Christ is dead in vain. Gal. 2:21
    For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2

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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    ??

    How do you know such a thing?
    For we are His workmanship. created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which He as foreordained that we should walk in them

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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    Regardless of how you see the word "believe" it is not the point. Whether "mental assent" or "trust in Christ for salvation" it is not written in the manner you are suggesting. Even if the meaning was "trust in Christ for salvation" that does not make the verse definitive.
    That the word "believe" can describe mere "mental assent belief," as in James 2:19, or also include "trust and reliance in Christ for salvation," as in Acts 16:31, is exactly the point and it is written exactly in the manner that I am explaining.

    This is the weakness of trust only theology.
    There is no weakness in trusting in Christ alone for salvation. He is the all-sufficient means of our salvation. Your weakness is in trusting in "water and works" for salvation instead of in CHRIST ALONE. You erroneously try to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith due to your weakness to BELIEVE.

    Yes, we must trust in Christ for salvation that is clear but the verse is not written in a manner to assume that this must is all-sufficient.
    If it's so clear to you that we must trust in Christ for salvation then why do you refuse to trust in Christ for salvation? If faith in Christ is not the all-sufficient instrumental means by which we receive eternal life, then the OBJECT of our faith is not the all-sufficient actual means of our salvation. Your theology renders Christ an in-sufficient Savior, which also explains why you turn to supplements for salvation, namely "water and works."

    This is the assumption that is being overlooked. Only someone who wants this statement to be definitive will see it as such. If presented in a secular subject no one would declare it to be definitive. Example:

    "I am proud to work for the U.S. Postal Service, for the price of a stamp it is the power of the Federal government to quickly send mail anywhere, first to Americans and then the world"

    This is a true statement but certainly not a definitive one. Without the proper address and depositing the letter in a mailbox, all the stamps in the world will not get the letter delivered.
    More faulty human logic.

    You see Romans 1:16 and others as definitive not because they are but because you want them to be.
    What is inconclusive about the gospel of Christ being the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES..? You continue to erroneously re-define "believes" to include "water and works," which remains your stumbling block in your delusional world of UNBELIEF.

    Your reasoning relies heavily upon faulty English Composition skills and wishful thinking.
    The Bible is not merely a text book that only those with superior English Composition skills can understand. 1 Corinthians 2:11 - For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    It's essential to understand that the Holy Spirit works in conjunction with the Gospel/the Word, as ADDITIONAL to the Word. Campbellites deny such a work of the Holy Spirit, holding that there is nothing more than the Word in bringing about the new birth. I once heard a Campbellite say that the only thing involved in coming to faith in Christ is "paper, ink and human intelligence." That fits what you were saying about English Composition skills.

    In effect, they deny the very essence of regeneration, which is to be "born from above" (John 3:3). This error leads to denial of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, as taught by evangelical Christianity. Campbellites postulate everything upon man’s "obedience" to the letter of the Word, denying an accompanying work of the Holy Spirit. Yet the Bible says:

    "For our gospel came not unto you IN WORD ONLY, but also in POWER, and in THE HOLY Spirit.." - 1 Thessalonians 1:5.

    “Lydia...whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul" - Acts 16:14.

    If there is no additional work, or influence, of the Holy Spirit, then this last verse, which says the Lord "opened her heart," is superfluous. Obviously, while the WORD is the means of communicating that which is to be believed, the additional unseen work of the Holy Spirit is necessary for being "born from above." Paul referred to his preaching as being "in the demonstration of the Spirit and of power" (1 Corinthians 2:4). This is why Campbellite preaching is dead and relies heavily upon faulty human logic and legalism. The only explanation of this barren spirituality is the absence of the Holy Spirit, which explains the lack of a proper understanding of the Word of God (1 Corinthians 2:14).
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzungu256 View Post
    how do u get a renewed mind u see?????? im still waiting for mine. i heard its supposed to happen by itself when u believe the gospel...... what am i doing wrong, aside from the obvious? is there something special that i dont know u see??????
    Hello Muzungu,

    In Romans 12:1-2, we see that the way we are "transformed," is by the renewing of our minds. We are to present our bodies as a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is our reasonable service. As unbelievers, we were naturally conformed to the world (Ephesians 2:1–3), but as believers, we are to no longer be conformed to this world and we have been rescued from the domain of darkness and transferred to the kingdom of God’s beloved Son (Colossians 1:13).

    Rather than continuing to conform to this world, we are to be transformed by having our minds renewed. Ephesians 4:22-24 exhorts us to put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

    A "renewed mind" has "put off" the old man and "put on" the new. If we are not willing to yield to God, by putting off the old man and putting on the new, then our minds will not be renewed and our lives will not be transformed. We are not to remain as babes in Christ, but move on to maturity, growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Senior Member BillG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleGirl View Post
    Interesting question.
    First of all, I don't like the word "work" because it sounds like something physically and emotionally difficult to do.
    Jesus said that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. So it seems to me that if God asks us to do something, He will also give us the strength to do it.

    If you're doing good deeds, those Jesus would have you do as a born-again believer, then the reason why you're doing them seems to be unimportant to me.

    I do have difficulty with some verses which Jesus said.
    For instance Mathew 7:23
    Jesus tells some who practiced in His name to depart from Him. He said because they practiced lawlessness --- He didn't say because they didn't believe.

    In other words, if we say Jesus is our Lord, we do have to really follow Him and obey Him.

    Do YOU think that if I'm doing good deeds because I think it's necessary to continue in my salvation that I'm doing something wrong??
    To be honest I don't like the word 'work' either.
    To Quantify and qualify can be difficult.

    For me I'm thankful and humbled that God would use someone like me.

    I think your comment "then the reason why your doing them seems unimportant to me" could be the reason for your difficulty with Matthew 7:23

    If you look at the verses preceding that

    Matthew 7:15-16
    You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
    15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

    Then look at at

    Matthew 7:21-23
    I Never Knew You
    21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

    The issues are that is seems people were doing miracles but Jesus will not look at miracles but looks at fruit.

    If there is no fruit then it contradicts the miracles and deeds not based in love.


    Basically such people are out for personal gain and have no desire for relationship with Jesus and walking in the two commands that he said.

    Matthew 7:24
    Build on the Rock
    24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:

    The people Jesus rejected were rejected because they did not build their lives on him.

    That's why everything they did was lawlessness.
    It was for their own gain. Just like the Pharisees.

    So in effect they didn't believe because if they did they would have placed thier faith in Jesus and are sheep and not goats.
    Lord

    Help me to be the person my dog thinks I am.

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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoveGodForever View Post
    2Pet 1:4
    Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    When you BELIEVE the EXCEEDING GREAT AND PRECIOUS PROMISES ARE THESE......................

    Exodus 20
    1, And God spake all these words, saying,
    2, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.1
    3, Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
    4, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
    5, Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
    6, And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
    7, Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
    8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    9, Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
    12, Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
    13, Thou shalt not kill.
    14, Thou shalt not commit adultery.
    15, Thou shalt not steal.
    16, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
    17, Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
    LOL now I've heard it all. These are the great and precious promises that enable you escape the corruption in the world through lust?

    Paul said the OPPOSITE. See Romans 7.7-10. 'I had not known sin except by the law'. And he went on to explain how it got hold of him and slew him,

    BELIEVE HIS PROMISES TO YOU. Your FAITH will give you VICTORY to overcome the world
    Believe His promises - 'the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death'.

    Eschew the Law!!
    mailmandan likes this.

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    Senior Member mailmandan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    LOL now I've heard it all. These are the great and precious promises that enable you escape the corruption in the world through lust?

    Paul said the OPPOSITE. See Romans 7.7-10. 'I had not known sin except by the law'. And he went on to explain how it got hold of him and slew him,

    Believe His promises - 'the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death'.

    Eschew the Law!!
    The new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit and not of the letter. "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

    SDA's and other misguided, modern day teachers of the law remind me of the Israelites in Romans 10:1 - Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES.

    1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who BELIEVE.
    UnderGrace likes this.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

  14. #874
    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?

    The new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit and not of the letter
    When you have understood this you have the right lens by which to understand the rest.

    Amen and Amen!!


    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    The new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit and not of the letter. "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

    SDA's and other misguided, modern day teachers of the law remind me of the Israelites in Romans 10:1 - Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES.

    1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who BELIEVE.
    mailmandan likes this.
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

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