Is healing promised to the believers?

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Depleted

Guest
The bible is like an owner's manual to life. If you do exactly what it says to do, God will do exactly what He said He will do, without fail.
LOL

And in what universe has anyone ever done "exactly what it says to do?" And why are you so gung-ho to control God?

The Bible is an owner's manual, but the owner is God, not us. The Bible is a book about God, not us!
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
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No,you took a position, then you proceeded to just brush off any responsibility on your part to accept and operate in the gifts and authority God laid up and freely gives to his saints.

Its all still there. I can testify to that.
You have been duped friend. The power is still freely given. You have to pursue it. Ask for it. Same as the book of acts.[/QUOTE)

———————————


I know about the power, I’ve been healed by the power of prayer. But major miracles like parting the sea, controlling the weather, or instantly healing the blind, or raising the dead- if you have this kind of power today why are you not in the hospitals right now freeing the patients? God is still capable of such things, but God does not do everything He is capable of. He did things physically in the Old Testament that He now does spiritually after the completion of the Bible- it’s His Will. There are no more parting the sea, Noah’s ark, controlling the weather, or instantly healing the blind or dead. If you claim otherwise show me. I look forward to seeing such things on the news.


 
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Depleted

Guest
It's one thing to say things like, "It doesn't work like that", and it's another to be able to back it up with scripture.
One has no weight and the other does.
Instead of arguing with your carnally minded logic, why don't you start by disproving the scriptures we use, like some have done.
What you said about truth however, is indeed true.
Truth is not truth if it fails to be consistently or perpetually, which would make it a law.
For example the law or truth of addition is, one plus one equals two.
It doesn't matter how many time you do the math or arrange them, it will forever be the same.
That being said, the promises of God are truths that have to work 100 percent of the time or they would cease to be truths. Which means that God cannot ever let, even the smallest part of any of all the promises He's made, fail. If it did fail, then it would cease to be a truth or law. So God watch over and hastens to perform His word or promises saying that He would not suffer His faithfulness to fail, which is why we hold fast to the profession of our faith without wavering, for He is faithful who promised.
The word of God, my rock and strong foundation, upon which we should build our faith.
Considering you slice and dice scripture to fit what you want to believe, and considering you called a man of God (Did I get that right OldThanNew? lol) a half-witted idiot, let us just assume I won't be learning anything from you that I care to learn.

It seems your rock is your opinions.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,624
1,381
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I've noticed a general acceptance of certain interpretations of Scripture about Paul's thorn in the flesh. But there are other places where the phrase "thorn in the flesh" is used and it refers to people being annoying pains in the behind causing persecution (not sickness).

A “thorn in the flesh” is an Old Testament idiom (Num 33:55, Jud 2:3) that refers to persecution, not sickness, while Paul told Timothy to drink fortified wine and avoid the local water so he wouldn’t get “Delhi Belly” when he travelled.


And when the sentences that say the letters were large or he had others help him write.... why would everyone assume that means without a doubt Paul had eye trouble? That is a guesstimation at best since Paul could have just as easily had help in his writings since he was so busy speaking and preaching., why not have help in the writing as many people have secretaries that they dictate letters to and they get typed up.

These are just like so many other generally accepted interpretation in terms that I along with other believers just don't buy into.




Yes, you can "what if" it to death.... or, you could read scripture the way it was written. Do you think Paul was writing in some kind of code, or trick language?

The term "thorn in the flesh" could certainly be used to represent ANY kind of irritation, spiritual, or physical, but just about ALL Biblical scholars agree that Paul was speaking plainly about a physical ailment.

You, however, can make anything of it you wish, if it helps you sell your belief to others.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
Yes, you can "what if" it to death.... or, you could read scripture the way it was written. Do you think Paul was writing in some kind of code, or trick language?

The term "thorn in the flesh" could certainly be used to represent ANY kind of irritation, spiritual, or physical, but just about ALL Biblical scholars agree that Paul was speaking plainly about a physical ailment.

You, however, can make anything of it you wish, if it helps you sell your belief to others.
it seems those who have fallen for the error of WOF, live in some kind of make believe world

they insist that scripture that speaks of spiritual healing and the miracle of salvation means physical healing

YET in spite of their claims, people are NOT healed, people continue to die and sin continues its effects on this world

the ONLY completely true claim we can make on God is place our faith in His Son for salvation

name it and claim it, blab it and grab it...that is not faith. that is a quasi spiritual mantra that is not biblical and the proof is that what is claimed simply DOES NOT OCCUR!!!

further, to state that people who counter this deception do not believe that God heals is a lie as people have stated multiple times, in multiple threads, that we believe God does heal...He can immediately, He can heal over time , through doctors and so on. the very fact the body can heal at all, is testament to the provision of God

I believe that we do affirm what the Bible states, but we do not twist what it states, teach that in place of truth and have an emotional harangue when the deception of WOF is exposed
 
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heartofdavid

Guest
All sinner are spiritually wound and If he die before accepting Jesus, he also spiritually die

as son as a man accepting Jesus, he is spiritually heal. Paul heal spiritually but he had a torn in his flesh, he pray but God did not heal him
Therefore your one example cancels 50 or so that show healing belongs to us.

You are stuck on a 3blind man vs elephant no power abstract.

If Peter took your position,he would have said " whats the use,this upper room power is just to go to swahili and save some natives. Anyone want to go fishing?"

The power is given for a purpose.
There is only one ticket out of hell.

Raise them from the dead.

Now you're talking. !!
Lets go take them back.

I challenge you to look up the verses.

Watch this....one day i will raise the dead.
That day will come. You pharisees hide and watch.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,624
1,381
113
it seems those who have fallen for the error of WOF, live in some kind of make believe world

they insist that scripture that speaks of spiritual healing and the miracle of salvation means physical healing

YET in spite of their claims, people are NOT healed, people continue to die and sin continues its effects on this world

the ONLY completely true claim we can make on God is place our faith in His Son for salvation

name it and claim it, blab it and grab it...that is not faith. that is a quasi spiritual mantra that is not biblical and the proof is that what is claimed simply DOES NOT OCCUR!!!

further, to state that people who counter this deception do not believe that God heals is a lie as people have stated multiple times, in multiple threads, that we believe God does heal...He can immediately, He can heal over time , through doctors and so on. the very fact the body can heal at all, is testament to the provision of God

I believe that we do affirm what the Bible states, but we do not twist what it states, teach that in place of truth and have an emotional harangue when the deception of WOF is exposed
Man, I'm glad I had just swallowed my mouthful of coffee when I read that....

I agree that we are obviously not supposed to take a scripture that is trying to demonstrate a principle, and interpret it literally.

Seriously, how many mountains have you seen tossed into the sea, at the request of a believer?

God is trying to tell us that we should seek His help and counsel for ALL our problems, whether physical healing, or spiritual support/healing. It was not (IMO) a blanket statement of quid-pro-quo..... IF you have faith, I WILL heal you.

I have been involved in several serious prayer vigils that last for weeks, and have seen a few be healed in a manner that could only be divine intervention.... but I have also seen others that were not healed, and passed.

My faith is not shaken.... because I realize that God has a plan, and we should ALWAYS tell God what we want, but we should also be ready to be told "no, that is not in my plan for this person"...
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,624
1,381
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Therefore your one example cancels 50 or so that show healing belongs to us.

You are stuck on a 3blind man vs elephant no power abstract.

If Peter took your position,he would have said " whats the use,this upper room power is just to go to swahili and save some natives. Anyone want to go fishing?"

The power is given for a purpose.
There is only one ticket out of hell.

Raise them from the dead.

Now you're talking. !!
Lets go take them back.

I challenge you to look up the verses.

Watch this....one day i will raise the dead.
That day will come. You pharisees hide and watch.
TLJ.jpg


Hmmmm... Ok. I'll wait and see.

Keep us posted.
 
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heartofdavid

Guest
it seems those who have fallen for the error of WOF, live in some kind of make believe world

they insist that scripture that speaks of spiritual healing and the miracle of salvation means physical healing

YET in spite of their claims, people are NOT healed, people continue to die and sin continues its effects on this world

the ONLY completely true claim we can make on God is place our faith in His Son for salvation

name it and claim it, blab it and grab it...that is not faith. that is a quasi spiritual mantra that is not biblical and the proof is that what is claimed simply DOES NOT OCCUR!!!

further, to state that people who counter this deception do not believe that God heals is a lie as people have stated multiple times, in multiple threads, that we believe God does heal...He can immediately, He can heal over time , through doctors and so on. the very fact the body can heal at all, is testament to the provision of God

I believe that we do affirm what the Bible states, but we do not twist what it states, teach that in place of truth and have an emotional harangue when the deception of WOF is exposed
Oh,now i get it.
He can use doctors but that book of acts stuff has passed away.
He is more of a church pot luck type of being now.
Got it.
 
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heartofdavid

Guest
Man, I'm glad I had just swallowed my mouthful of coffee when I read that....

I agree that we are obviously not supposed to take a scripture that is trying to demonstrate a principle, and interpret it literally.

Seriously, how many mountains have you seen tossed into the sea, at the request of a believer?

God is trying to tell us that we should seek His help and counsel for ALL our problems, whether physical healing, or spiritual support/healing. It was not (IMO) a blanket statement of quid-pro-quo..... IF you have faith, I WILL heal you.

I have been involved in several serious prayer vigils that last for weeks, and have seen a few be healed in a manner that could only be divine intervention.... but I have also seen others that were not healed, and passed.

My faith is not shaken.... because I realize that God has a plan, and we should ALWAYS tell God what we want, but we should also be ready to be told "no, that is not in my plan for this person"...
God said it.
So believing is off the table?
 
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heartofdavid

Guest
View attachment 176249


Hmmmm... Ok. I'll wait and see.

Keep us posted.
I want more faith,not less.

Lets say someone says " i am called to evangelise"
Now for my negative respose
" that stuff passed away. Heck, look at all the verses where they were not saved. There is no evidence in the bible where all will be saved. Heck look around you,that saved stuff just doesnt work"
 
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heartofdavid

Guest
it seems those who have fallen for the error of WOF, live in some kind of make believe world

they insist that scripture that speaks of spiritual healing and the miracle of salvation means physical healing

YET in spite of their claims, people are NOT healed, people continue to die and sin continues its effects on this world

the ONLY completely true claim we can make on God is place our faith in His Son for salvation

name it and claim it, blab it and grab it...that is not faith. that is a quasi spiritual mantra that is not biblical and the proof is that what is claimed simply DOES NOT OCCUR!!!

further, to state that people who counter this deception do not believe that God heals is a lie as people have stated multiple times, in multiple threads, that we believe God does heal...He can immediately, He can heal over time , through doctors and so on. the very fact the body can heal at all, is testament to the provision of God

I believe that we do affirm what the Bible states, but we do not twist what it states, teach that in place of truth and have an emotional harangue when the deception of WOF is exposed
Verses?
Where are you seeing WOF?

WOF is kneejerk.

WOF ?
Book of acts? BOA?
I use WORd of GOD.
WOG.
 
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heartofdavid

Guest
But,but some are not healed.

But,but some are not saved.
I thought he died for all.

I can not park there.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,624
1,381
113
God said it.
So believing is off the table?
Believing it is not off the table at all.... we just need to use discernment as to what He was promising us. If God meant that all we had to do is have faith and pray, and EVERYONE would be healed, no exception, then why are people still NOT being healed?

Do you seriously want to tell me that in every case of non-healing, that there simply wasn't enough faith in God?

Seriously?

You are telling me that everyone that you have prayed for has been healed? No exceptions?
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,624
1,381
113
I want more faith,not less.

Lets say someone says " i am called to evangelise"
Now for my negative respose
" that stuff passed away. Heck, look at all the verses where they were not saved. There is no evidence in the bible where all will be saved. Heck look around you,that saved stuff just doesnt work"
hyperbole, much?

This type of silliness doesn't add much to the discussion. You KNOW that nobody is saying that. Or, you should.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
you know, this is a subject that has been dealt with at great length in these forums with sound biblical reproof.

emotional responses are usually not proof of anything but someone hit a nerve.

here is a lengthy thread started by a wofer and has plenty of responses if anyone would like to read about it
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
Man, I'm glad I had just swallowed my mouthful of coffee when I read that....

I agree that we are obviously not supposed to take a scripture that is trying to demonstrate a principle, and interpret it literally.

Seriously, how many mountains have you seen tossed into the sea, at the request of a believer?

God is trying to tell us that we should seek His help and counsel for ALL our problems, whether physical healing, or spiritual support/healing. It was not (IMO) a blanket statement of quid-pro-quo..... IF you have faith, I WILL heal you.

I have been involved in several serious prayer vigils that last for weeks, and have seen a few be healed in a manner that could only be divine intervention.... but I have also seen others that were not healed, and passed.

My faith is not shaken.... because I realize that God has a plan, and we should ALWAYS tell God what we want, but we should also be ready to be told "no, that is not in my plan for this person"...

right

a Christian should understand that sovereignty belongs to God

healing belongs to God and if we have faith even as a grain of mustard seed (as Jesus says), it seems to be the case that even that tiny faith would be responded to

so this nonsense of blame the believer and tell them their faith is stinky, is a deception that actually gears people up for disappointment and expectations that we have never been told to have

some hyper sects of WOFers will actually tell you that reality is created by our words

I believe we should speak words that are in alignment with scripture. we do not curse, we are supposed to bless

WOF, takes it to a whole other level that seems to leave out the sovereignty of God Himself

I have seen prayers answered also, that can have no other source but God as the provider
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
Therefore your one example cancels 50 or so that show healing belongs to us.

You are stuck on a 3blind man vs elephant no power abstract.

If Peter took your position,he would have said " whats the use,this upper room power is just to go to swahili and save some natives. Anyone want to go fishing?"

The power is given for a purpose.
There is only one ticket out of hell.

Raise them from the dead.

Now you're talking. !!
Lets go take them back.

I challenge you to look up the verses.

Watch this....one day i will raise the dead.
That day will come. You pharisees hide and watch.
so what is you believe, God always heal the physical ilnesses?

God always raise the physical death?
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
I see you have attracted the usual gang of unbelievers who will
attempt to convince you that unbelief is Godly, even a badge of honour.

In your question you use the word 'believers'
herein lies the crux of the problem, for not all believe.

These verses get to the heart of belief and unbelief.
It begins here.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel
to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not
shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe;
In my name shall they cast out devils;
they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;
they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven,
and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them,
and confirming the word with signs following.
Amen.
Mark 16:

What do "Christians" believe?
That all scripture is true?
That the promises of God are true?
That originally there was only one gospel, one way?
That the indwelling Holy Spirit is the power of God residing within
a disciple?
That healings and miracles are for today as children of our Father in Heaven.

6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake,
hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed
with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
8 And there was great joy in that city.
Acts 8:

In my Pentecostal Fellowship we have a 100% rate of miracles and healings.
From small injuries and minor hurts to significant and in some cases fatal
diseases and conditions.
Not everyone is healed instantly and not everyone is healed to full recovery
for that is still a matter of faith and of one's walk with the Lord.
Sometimes even the Spirit-filled saint needs to re-evaluate their approach
to God and faith.
But in my Fellowship miracles and healings are the norm.



Amen waggles., When you are taught to believe and hold to the promises by faith., things happen in your life., in your church in your testimony. Many are fearful to talk or preach of healing or God's watch-care because others have not experienced such miracles. But we must talk and teach and preach the truth and encourage those believers who do. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It not only has to be read and believed on our own homes, but it has to be taught in order to be heard in our churches. Your church is an example of daring to believe the promises by faith in Christ and His finished work for us on the cross.