Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?

[Studyman]

According to you works of the law means Levitical law.

So then according to Romans 3:31 we are establishing the Levitical law by faith, if we continue in your error.

It makes no sense and it is error. Hizi agrees with me that it makes no sense and it is error. ask him.


So if you agree with Hizi, and with me, then works of the law cannot mean ONLY the levitical law. But if you disagree then you disagree with Hizi too.

Once again as is your custom, you omit the scriptures that bring your traditions into question. Let me help you with this.

Rom. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision(Jews) by faith, and uncircumcision(Gentiles) through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

We still must meet the spiritual requirements of our part of the Priesthood. WE don't take goats to the Levites anymore because Jesus is now our High Priest..

Now we take a Spiritual offering to Christ as it is written.

Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

So GP, we still bring our best sacrifice to the High Priest. Obedience, humility, submission, honesty. Can you deny that these represent the "Best of our flock"? We just don't observe the Levitical sacrificial, carnal "Works of the Law" for remission of sins.


2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

How you can read the Word and determine that rejecting God's Word is "good" or "acceptable" to God is a testament to how strong the deception Jesus warned about is.



In doing this we establish "The Law of Works and the Law of Faith".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

=eternally-gratefull;3356565]

I agree completely. There is an ordinance that is against us.

Num. 35:16 And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.

Why did you go here? This is a temporal punishment for one command, and has nothing to do with the ordinance paul spoke about in Colossians.


Plus, this was only Given to israel, as a national ordinance and the government of Israel was supposed to carry this out for any individual who broke this law.

Perfect so far. As it is written the man that kills a man shall be put to death. That is the Law. Where you are in error, is that the Law "thou shall not kill" is not against us or anyone and to preach as much is foolish at least, and blasphemy at most.

But the handwriting of ordinances that says if we break this law we are put to death, now that is the law that is against us.

You preach that the Law is our problem. How can the Law be the problem? How can we have a society with no law?

It isn't God's Commandments that are against us. It is the law that says we die when we break them.

Again you totally went of kilter. But I guess I should suspect this from you. This has nothing to do with WHat moses said after the law was given, It has nothing to do with what Paul said in Gal 3. Or his letter to the collision church.

One would think you would know better, But I am beginning to wonder if you really believe what your saying, or if once again your just trying to excuse your lack of knowledge of what paul was actually saying in order to continue to hold this false application of the law?

No, God remembered His covenant with Abraham when the people cried out in Egypt. God's Commandments and Laws have always been there. They are universal and the Prophets speaks of all following them after the 2nd coming of Christ. I would show the scriptures but you will just ignore them. Ask for them and I will show them to you.

You just can't believe Paul when he teaches that God "ADDED" the Levitical Priesthood because of transgressions. Why, because transgressions of God's universal law cause the death that was against us. This "Levitical Priesthood" was the temporary law. Not the Righteous laws of God Abraham obeyed.

What does this have to do with what I said, Is it difficult for you to follow. Line of reasoning that you continually have to go off in circles and say things that are not even related to what was said? If you did not break up my text. You should have seen this.
Nice try, but no cigar.

The levitical priesthood was not written in stone. The ten commands were. So you are barking up the wrong tree.

Yes, that curse was death, That is what Jesus nailed to the cross.

Yep. Which means the law, as a means to lead us to christ, has completed its job, and is no longer needed. Because it was NEVER GIVEN to make us righteous, it was given to SHUT EVERY MOUTH AND CONFRIM THAT ALL HAVE SINNED.

Yet for some reason you want to follow it. You better be perfect. If not, You hav dnot learned from it.

Yes, if you believe the curse is death as Paul preaches this can be true. If we repent and turn to the God of the Bible, and bring works worthy of repentance, yes, as it is written.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Why do we need an advocate with the Father if Jesus nailed to definition of sin on the cross? Where there is no law, there is no sin. No, Jesus nailed our death to the cross and is faithful to forgive us if we slip in sin while we serve the Law of God in our mind as Paul did..

But if you preach that the curse that was nailed to the cross is God's Commandments. Then this scripture and volumes more must be thrown out as irrelevant.

Smh, you just do not get it. Sadly I doubt you ever will

if the curse of spiritual death has been removed, then we can never be condemned for any sin again. If we can still be condemned for breaking the law. Then the curse has not been nailed to the cross. It still stands, and we are ALL under law. And we will ALL see judgment,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I broke your post up. To really focus on Try is laughable aspect of your response.

Here is where the post that stung you kicks in. We are warned over and over about satan trying to trick us into disobedience. You didn't like the post but you offered no rebuttal because you can't. You say in one breath the curse of the law is death and Paul preaches, and I agree.

lololol.. Satan comes as a lion wanting to pounce on you. Satan is the great deciever. Yes yes, As I already told you over and over again. I KNOW THESE THINGS, But in your blindness you think I know otherwise

Can you ever tell me something I do not know? If you said this before I did not respond to it or answer it, Because I ALREADY KNOW THESE THINGS

Yet once again in your feeble attempt to try to trip me up you have tripped yourself up. Because what you think I do not know, I not only know. But have preached ther same things myself,

I have warned you once, I must wonder how many times people have to warn you, If you do not listen to what people say, .You will never be able to help them and all you do is go around in circles making yourself look bad.

But now you are back to preaching the curse of the Law is the Law. Which is false. Creating images of God in the likeness of man is sin. Creating "Feast's unto the Lord" is sin. But the Law isn't sin.

Rom. 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So if keeping the Law isn't sin, and disobeying the law is sin, even a child could figure that one out.

You don't think it is. You don't believe it is. But the First and greatest Commandment is very clear on that. Working on God's Sabbath Day is a sin. You don't believe it is, you don't think it is, but according to the Bible it is.

The Pharisees also created their own Sabbath. They sold their goods, placed unbearable burdens of the People as Jesus taught. Did they repent of this before Jesus rose from the dead? Nope, How about after Jesus rose from the dead, did they repent then? Nope. As Jesus said, "unless you all likewise repent, Ye shall all perish. But the Jews didn't think they were disobeying God even after God's word showed them that they were.. The didn't believe they were in sin even after God's Word showed them that they were. This is what I am hoping people on this forum can SEE.


Paul said specifically, Jesus took the ordinances which was against us, contrary to us, out of the way, (in other words, he remov4ed them as a barrier between God and man, so the relationship could be restored.

[/COLOR]Absolutely, this barrier between God and man had to be destroyed. But is isn't God's Commandments that formed a barrier between Abraham and God, or Noah and God, or Zechariah and God. It was death, transgressions, rebellion, disobedience. That is the Barrier between God and man EG. It wasn't the Commandment that killed eve, it was her leaning on her own understanding.



Here is where you fall off the tracks. Mercy, Grace and Faith are the Laws Abraham was blessed for keeping. What else do the 10 commandments and other of God's Commandments portray? Even the "ADDED" The Levitical Priesthood set up sacrifices for the very purpose of forgiving sins to foreshadow this Mercy and grace. Did the Levitical Priesthood foreshadow the elimination of God's Laws? No. They foreshadowed the perfect Blood to be shed for the remission of sins.

Why did transgression of God's Laws cause death and the need for such drastic measures for reconciliation?

Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

You who are reading this, can you see. God set this up the way He did so we would consider sin(Transgression of His Law) to be very, very bad. Exceedingly bad. Wicked. As it is written:

1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.


23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.




The preaching that God gave mankind His Laws to condemn them is amazing given what the Bible actually says. I agree that the penalty for breaking them contained in the handwriting of ordinances condemned everyone. And to get rid of the "Curse" (death) we must all go to Christ. But God gave Jesus His Commandments too. And Abraham. He didn't give it to them to condemn them, but that they might have life as Paul and Jesus and Moses taught. "If you want to inherit life, keep the Commandments" Which ones? The Levitical Priesthood? No, the Commandments of God. It's right there in your Bible.

Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. You keep preaching just the opposite of what Paul preaches.

You will deny it of course.
.



Once again you preach a vision of your own mind, not what the Bible teaches. Which is my greatest beef with you.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

God's Laws condemn my flesh every day, but my flesh is dead to the Law, it no longer guides me as it used to. I am not my own now, I have been bought with a price. I am to bring every thought into the obedience of Christ.

You preach that this is impossible which is to be expected given all the warnings through out the Bible.

I, myself, SERVE the Law of God with my mind. Not the doctrines and traditions of man that you preach, but the Commandments of God that you reject. That way I never forget that I am a man and therefore deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked as Jesus teaches.

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

And the blessing is this, that I see the warnings I posted and understand what they say and what they warn about so as to obey Jesus and take heed of those "many" who come in His name to trick me into living in rebellion to God's Words.

1. I never said the law was sin. Your imposing a belief on me I do not hold
2. I never said that satan does not try to deceive us, Again, that is a belief you are trying to impose on me which is not true
3. I never said the commands or the law was obsolete or no longer in affect, It stands today just like it stood in the day it was given, Whoever does not live up to Gods standard will suffer the punishment it requires


The long posts of yours. Do you do them to make yourself look good. Or hope people do not see what is really going on here? Again, you wasted a lot of time, and all you have established is yet again, You have utterly no idea of what I believe, or what I am saying.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Once again as is your custom, you omit the scriptures that bring your traditions into question. Let me help you with this.

Rom. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision(Jews) by faith, and uncircumcision(Gentiles) through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

We still must meet the spiritual requirements of our part of the Priesthood. WE don't take goats to the Levites anymore because Jesus is now our High Priest..

Now we take a Spiritual offering to Christ as it is written.

Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

So GP, we still bring our best sacrifice to the High Priest. Obedience, humility, submission, honesty. Can you deny that these represent the "Best of our flock"? We just don't observe the Levitical sacrificial, carnal "Works of the Law" for remission of sins.


2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

How you can read the Word and determine that rejecting God's Word is "good" or "acceptable" to God is a testament to how strong the deception Jesus warned about is.



In doing this we establish "The Law of Works and the Law of Faith".

Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

what part of this reality have or can you accomplish to complete your part of the law?

 

[PS]

By coming to God in faith for salvation, we are admitting our guilt under the law, and that simple act of contrition establishes the law, for without the law, there is no guilt and we have just admitted our guilt, thereby establishing the law.

 

[Studyman]

=eternally-gratefull;3356783]

Why did you go here? This is a temporal punishment for one command, and has nothing to do with the ordinance paul spoke about in Colossians.


Plus, this was only Given to israel, as a national ordinance and the government of Israel was supposed to carry this out for any individual who broke this law.

That is what you and Many Mainstream preachers of today preach.

But Jesus, before He became a man, taught this. Ex. 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

And after He became a man: Eph. 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

So you preach I am to just ignore these other scriptures that teach God's Laws are not only for Israel. Can't do it.

Again you totally went of kilter. But I guess I should suspect this from you. This has nothing to do with WHat moses said after the law was given, It has nothing to do with what Paul said in Gal 3. Or his letter to the collision church.

One would think you would know better, But I am beginning to wonder if you really believe what your saying, or if once again your just trying to excuse your lack of knowledge of what paul was actually saying in order to continue to hold this false application of the law?

Yes I know my belief doesn't mesh with yours, any more that Jesus' belief meshed with the Mainstream preachers of His time. But why don't you use scriptures and support your belief with something more than your lips?

What does this have to do with what I said, Is it difficult for you to follow. Line of reasoning that you continually have to go off in circles and say things that are not even related to what was said? If you did not break up my text. You should have seen this.
Nice try, but no cigar.

The levitical priesthood was not written in stone. The ten commands were. So you are barking up the wrong tree.

Once again, you say the scriptures I post are wrong, but offer no support from God, just your words. I'm sorry EG, I can't just throw all these scriptures you ignore to get along.

Yep. Which means the law, as a means to lead us to christ, has completed its job, and is no longer needed. Because it was NEVER GIVEN to make us righteous, it was given to SHUT EVERY MOUTH AND CONFRIM THAT ALL HAVE SINNED.

Yet for some reason you want to follow it. You better be perfect. If not, You hav dnot learned from it.

So regardless of the what the Bible actually says you still preach Jesus nailed the 10 Commandments to the cross, and not just death that was against us? OK, it's your Gospel.

Smh, you just do not get it. Sadly I doubt you ever will

if the curse of spiritual death has been removed, then we can never be condemned for any sin again. If we can still be condemned for breaking the law. Then the curse has not been nailed to the cross. It still stands, and we are ALL under law. And we will ALL see judgment,

If you don't repent from following mans traditions and doctrines, and turn to God of the Bible, and do works worthy of repentance, then your death remains no matter how many times to declare "Lord, Lord.

 

[Studyman]

I broke your post up. To really focus on Try is laughable aspect of your response.



lololol.. Satan comes as a lion wanting to pounce on you. Satan is the great deciever. Yes yes, As I already told you over and over again. I KNOW THESE THINGS, But in your blindness you think I know otherwise

Can you ever tell me something I do not know? If you said this before I did not respond to it or answer it, Because I ALREADY KNOW THESE THINGS

Yet once again in your feeble attempt to try to trip me up you have tripped yourself up. Because what you think I do not know, I not only know. But have preached ther same things myself,

I have warned you once, I must wonder how many times people have to warn you, If you do not listen to what people say, .You will never be able to help them and all you do is go around in circles making yourself look bad.



1. I never said the law was sin. Your imposing a belief on me I do not hold
2. I never said that satan does not try to deceive us, Again, that is a belief you are trying to impose on me which is not true
3. I never said the commands or the law was obsolete or no longer in affect, It stands today just like it stood in the day it was given, Whoever does not live up to Gods standard will suffer the punishment it requires


The long posts of yours. Do you do them to make yourself look good. Or hope people do not see what is really going on here? Again, you wasted a lot of time, and all you have established is yet again, You have utterly no idea of what I believe, or what I am saying.

You are truly the most misunderstood person I have ever met. LOL

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are truly the most misunderstood person I have ever met. LOL

You misunderstand pretty much everyone you are trying to discuss with..

Why do you dishonor people by refusing to understand them?

And why do you continue to insist things, even when I ask you to prove your accusations are true?

 

[stonesoffire]

hahahahaha. thats right.

hizikyah ur doctrine isnt logical. it doesnt stand biblical examination

cant u just join christians in the new covenant and stop the hebrewroots nonsense?

Nothing wrong with knowing the roots that birthed Jesus. But, Jesus brought the new covenant of life in Him, versus death from law.

Just don't live in any law but the law of the Spirit! Of life! In Christ Jesus!

He wont lead us astray, so law is not needed.
.

 

[stonesoffire]

You are truly the most misunderstood person I have ever met. LOL

EG has experienced grace and mercy. I don't misunderstand him or his posts.

He is actually working with Holy Spirit for deliverance from bondage.

If we are Gentiles, the laws were never ours to begin with. That's for the sheep.

The body of Christ is an interruption in time. The plan is for Sons to be birthed, and to rule with Jesus. Then Israel picks up again for a time.

Now, is still the age of grace. And I see all nations hearing. Even some undiscovered tribes have been found. Though I don't know if they have had missionaries sent.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

=eternally-gratefull;3356783]

That is what you and Many Mainstream preachers of today preach.

But Jesus, before He became a man, taught this. Ex. 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

And after He became a man: Eph. 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

So you preach I am to just ignore these other scriptures that teach God's Laws are not only for Israel. Can't do it.



Yes I know my belief doesn't mesh with yours, any more that Jesus' belief meshed with the Mainstream preachers of His time. But why don't you use scriptures and support your belief with something more than your lips?






Once again, you say the scriptures I post are wrong, but offer no support from God, just your words. I'm sorry EG, I can't just throw all these scriptures you ignore to get along.



So regardless of the what the Bible actually says you still preach Jesus nailed the 10 Commandments to the cross, and not just death that was against us? OK, it's your Gospel.



If you don't repent from following mans traditions and doctrines, and turn to God of the Bible, and do works worthy of repentance, then your death remains no matter how many times to declare "Lord, Lord.

Again, I feel like I am talking to a wall

Deut 27:[FONT=&quot]26 ‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’

Gal 3: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed iseveryone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[e] 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”[f] 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”[g][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[h]), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

Here, do some reading. Maybe you will learn something. If you keep this stuff up. I will have to cut off our conversation. I refuse to continue to discuss anything with a man who will not listen to anyone.

[/FONT]
If you do not repent and acknowledge that you have failed to keep the law. Continue to fail to keep the law. And will continue to fail to keep the law according to the guidelines imposed by God,Moses and confirmed by Paul. You will continue to miss out on the wonders of God and how blessed a walk with God can be. And thats only if your even saved at all.
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Grandpa]

Once again as is your custom, you omit the scriptures that bring your traditions into question. Let me help you with this.

Rom. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision(Jews) by faith, and uncircumcision(Gentiles) through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

We still must meet the spiritual requirements of our part of the Priesthood. WE don't take goats to the Levites anymore because Jesus is now our High Priest..

Now we take a Spiritual offering to Christ as it is written.

Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

So GP, we still bring our best sacrifice to the High Priest. Obedience, humility, submission, honesty. Can you deny that these represent the "Best of our flock"? We just don't observe the Levitical sacrificial, carnal "Works of the Law" for remission of sins.


2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

How you can read the Word and determine that rejecting God's Word is "good" or "acceptable" to God is a testament to how strong the deception Jesus warned about is.



In doing this we establish "The Law of Works and the Law of Faith".

Well that was a lot of twisting of scripture just to place yourself back under the law again.

Do all legalists and judaizers do that?

Romans 6:14 [FONT=&quot]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

[/FONT]Why would Paul have to tell them they aren't under levitical law? They were never under levitical law to begin with.

Galatians 3:23-26
[FONT=&quot]23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If this were talking of the levitical law then there should still be a bunch of people sacrificing animals in order to come to faith in Christ.

But no, there aren't. What there are a lot of is people working at the law, the 10 commandments, in hope of pleasing God.

They haven't come to faith in Christ yet.


Its pretty simple. I think you don't get it because you don't want to. You want to work at the law in your own understanding and strength.

Let me give you a couple warnings from scripture if you want to continue in your error;

Galatians 3:10-12
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 5:1-5
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.[/FONT]

 

[Studyman]

=Grandpa;3357025]Well that was a lot of twisting of scripture just to place yourself back under the law again.

Do all legalists and judaizers do that?

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Why would Paul have to tell them they aren't under levitical law? They were never under levitical law to begin with.

Being under the law means being dead. But those who turn to God, repent, and bring works worthy of repentance are not dead any more, but alive by His Grace.

It seems like you ignore the parts of the scripture that might shed a better understanding of what they mean. The very next verse after the one you posted says:

Rom. 6:15 What then? shall we sin, (Transgress God's Commandments by our own traditions) because we are not (Dead) under the law, but under grace(Alive)? God forbid.

That means no GP. Just because Jesus washed our past sins away is no reason to continue to transgress the Commandment of God by our man made doctrines and traditions of man.

Galatians 3:23-26

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If this were talking of the levitical law then there should still be a bunch of people sacrificing animals in order to come to faith in Christ.

Absolutely GP. We don't have that now. But Paul faced this preaching every day from the Mainstream preachers of his time.

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Gal. 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


How many preachers are running around saying that now? No one. But in Paul's time it was the Mainstream Religion. This is a Biblical fact that I really wish you could accept. We could have a way better conversation about the Word if you did.

But no, there aren't. What there are a lot of is people working at the law, the 10 commandments, in hope of pleasing God.

They haven't come to faith in Christ yet.

You find me one time where it is written the Pharisees were trying to please God by obeying Him. Why do you completely ignore all that Jesus said about them. If you would just accept the Biblical fact that the Pharisees rejected the God of Abraham and had created their own religion we could have a way better conversation about God and His Word.


While it may be true that I don't have any faith in the long haired image of God the mainstream preachers of today have created with their man made "Feasts unto the Lord" they created on his behalf. That is true.

But I do have Faith of the Jesus of the Bible and His instruction, both as God of the Old Testament and my savior in the New Testament. Striving to obey this God is not a sin and will not result in falling from His Grace as you preach.

Its pretty simple. I think you don't get it because you don't want to. You want to work at the law in your own understanding and strength.

I get your preaching just fine. I just believe in Jesus enough to follow all His instructions. He said I am to live by EVERY Word of God, not just a Word here and there that might suit my personal lifestyle. I'm not ashamed of that.

Let me give you a couple warnings from scripture if you want to continue in your error;

Galatians 3:10-12

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

I believe it is prudent to include the whole bible when in study. There are other scriptures which, when considered, sheds a different Light on these verses.

If these few scriptures were the only Word's in the Bible then that is one thing. But that is not the Case.

I just don't believe Your preaching that my repentance and the following commanded works which include "Loving the Lord my God with all my heart" that I am under the curse and am therefore obligated to kill a goat as well. I just don't believe you on this point.

But as did the Jews in Paul's time, if I am trying to be justified by the Works of the Levitical sacrificial law, that is something completely different. Since I have rejected His Blood and chose a Law for remission of sins that no longer exists, then I had better do them all (not sin) because no one is justified by goats blood.

Galatians 5:1-5

1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

I just don't agree with your preaching that this scripture is speaking about the First and Greatest Commandment.

But if Paul is speaking about the Pharisees who were still preaching the "Law of Moses", specifically the part regarding the cleansing of sins. which included the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins, then he makes perfect sense. If they were relying on the LP sacrifices instead of the "Law of Faith" Paul preaches, then they have rejected Christ's sacrifice and have fallen from his Grace.

But when Paul is talking about the Commandments of God and not the "Law of Works" he says just the opposite.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.


See what I mean GP? If a man is interested in defending their own lifestyle or traditions, then they are forced to ignore any scripture which might expose them. But if a man desires to study God's "EVERY" Word in a genuine desire to know Him, there is no need to erase parts of His Word.

I know this stuff is hard to hear as it was for the Mainstream preachers of Christ's time and it was for me 20 years ago. I am still hopeful still that you might consider all the scriptures.

 

[Grandpa]

Let me give you a couple warnings from scripture if you want to continue in your error;

Galatians 3:10-12

I believe it is prudent to include the whole bible when in study. There are other scriptures which, when considered, sheds a different Light on these verses.

If these few scriptures were the only Word's in the Bible then that is one thing. But that is not the Case.

I just don't believe Your preaching that my repentance and the following commanded works which include "Loving the Lord my God with all my heart" that I am under the curse and am therefore obligated to kill a goat as well. I just don't believe you on this point.

But as did the Jews in Paul's time, if I am trying to be justified by the Works of the Levitical sacrificial law, that is something completely different. Since I have rejected His Blood and chose a Law for remission of sins that no longer exists, then I had better do them all (not sin) because no one is justified by goats blood.

Galatians 5:1-5
[/COLOR]


I just don't agree with your preaching that this scripture is speaking about the First and Greatest Commandment.

But if Paul is speaking about the Pharisees who were still preaching the "Law of Moses", specifically the part regarding the cleansing of sins. which included the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins, then he makes perfect sense. If they were relying on the LP sacrifices instead of the "Law of Faith" Paul preaches, then they have rejected Christ's sacrifice and have fallen from his Grace.

But when Paul is talking about the Commandments of God and not the "Law of Works" he says just the opposite.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.


See what I mean GP? If a man is interested in defending their own lifestyle or traditions, then they are forced to ignore any scripture which might expose them. But if a man desires to study God's "EVERY" Word in a genuine desire to know Him, there is no need to erase parts of His Word.

I know this stuff is hard to hear as it was for the Mainstream preachers of Christ's time and it was for me 20 years ago. I am still hopeful still that you might consider all the scriptures.

Its not hard to hear. Its just dumb. You think you are different from everyone but you aren't. You are only different than born again Christians. You are exactly like all the people who have not come to Christ yet. You are still under the law.

Nothing can convince you otherwise, not even scripture.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Serously now, you don't think this is talking of the levitical law, do you?

Wouldn't they have to travel back to Jerusalem to try and be under levitical law??? They couldn't just pretend to be under levitical law in Rome, right? So it would make absolutely no sense whatsoever to tell Romans that they aren't under levitical law.

But they could try to be under the 10 commandments anywhere, right? And they would have to be told that they aren't under that. Because EVERYONE, at one time, thinks they are under the law. Especially those coming to Christ.


I know logic isn't going to work either. You would first have to understand scripture for logic to work...

 

[PS]

Being under the law means being dead. But those who turn to God, repent, and bring works worthy of repentance are not dead any more, but alive by His Grace.

RED: Not by works.

The law condemns, we are not even justified by works of the law, salvation is through faith.

No man is justified by deeds of the law: for the law is the knowledge of sin. (Rom 3:20 KJV)

We are not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Gal 2:16 KJV) (Justification is not salvation.)

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. (Act 13:39 KJV)

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: (Gal 3:11-13 KJV)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (Eph 2:8 KJV)

 

[Chester]

He fulfilled the law: He did not abolish it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He fulfilled the law: He did not abolish it.

Can you fullfill the law?

 

[Chester]

?? ?? Not sure I understand the question - I can't do much of anything except really screw up if I try to do anything with the Law!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

?? ?? Not sure I understand the question - I can't do much of anything except really screw up if I try to do anything with the Law!

So then the law has done it job and kept you quiet, and led you to christ.

WHat more can it do?