Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?
- Thread starter Sinceritas
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
And thus as I begin to live with the law already being perfected in me -- and having the author of that Law in me - who is Love - . . . . now am I keeping the law or not?? . . . . what law? seems I am all mixed up! 
Thus the Author of Law has never changed and has been LOVE through all dispensations . . .
Thus the Author of Law has never changed and has been LOVE through all dispensations . . .
E
And thus as I begin to live with the law already being perfected in me -- and having the author of that Law in me - who is Love - . . . . now am I keeping the law or not?? . . . . what law? seems I am all mixed up!
Thus the Author of Law has never changed and has been LOVE through all dispensations . . .
Thus the Author of Law has never changed and has been LOVE through all dispensations . . .
Israel never got it. Sadly as we see here, Many in the so called church do not get it either. They think it is all about obeying rules. When it has never been about that, it has been about putting the needs of others above our own (love) and in doing this, in all ages,. We will be Christlike. Obedient children.
Here it is:
Matthew 5
7Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Now:
Luke 24:44
44 [FONT="]And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.[/FONT]
So if you believe the Lord Jesus has fulfilled what He said He came to fulfill then you have this;
Hebrews 7:15-19
[FONT="]15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
I suppose if you still work at the 10 commandments then you must not think that they were fulfilled. You think you are still responsible to fulfill them yourself.[/FONT]
Hebrews 7:15-19
[FONT="]15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
I suppose if you still work at the 10 commandments then you must not think that they were fulfilled. You think you are still responsible to fulfill them yourself.[/FONT]
Rom. 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
I don't believe "Under the Law" means following God's Law. I believe "Under the Law" means dead. Gentiles who didn't even know God's Law were still condemned by the Law.
Rom. 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
This way "Everybody" is brought to the same place, death, because they all, both Gentiles and Jews transgressed God Law.
Rom. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
It doesn't matter if I'm a Jew and know the Law or am a gentile and don't know the law, Transgressing God's Law is sin, and the "soul that sins shall die".
The preaching that "under the Law" means under God Commandments is not true. For one, the Gentiles were spiritually dead having not known the Law.
I don't believe the mainstream preaching on this.
The preaching that God created His instructions for mankind so that every mouth may be stopped and all the WORLD may become Guilty before God is not supported by scripture. God didn't bring everybody "Under the Law" as defined by todays mainstream preachers, He brought everybody under death so as to bring us all to Christ for redemption, those who knew the Law and those who didn't.
God said of Abraham:
Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
So Abraham wasn't judged guilty before God so his mouth may be stopped by being "Under the Law" as you define it.
He was brought "under the Law" meaning death, and was forgiven by the Blood of Jesus because he trusted enough in God to follow His Instructions. This trust was called "Faith". Abraham was also dead in his sins. But we know he repented and brought forth works worthy of repentance. This is why Jesus said before our sins are forgiven we MUST.
#1. Repent of our ways and turn to God and His Ways Jew or Gentile. (As Abraham did was considered faithful)
#2. Bring Works Worthy of Repentance because Jesus teaches us we will be judged by our works. (As Abraham showed)
This is what Paul taught.
Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should (ALL) repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Without this repentance Grace will not help us, there is no being "Freed from death". Without this repentance and subsequent works worthy of repentance we are still "Dead in our sins".
Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
This is why Paul teaches:
Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,(True Repentance) that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.(Works worthy of Repentance)
Eph. 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness,(DEAD in our sins) but now are ye light in the Lordrepentant) walk as children of light: (works worthy of repentance)
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth) (Man's righteousness or God's righteousness?)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.(works Worthy of Repentance)
If you understand that the term "Under the Law" means death as the Bible teaches, then the meaning of the scripture doesn't contradict the rest of the Bible.
Rom. 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law(Spiritually DEAD): that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
So here we are, everyone, all the world, guilty before God of sinning and the wages of sin is death. We are all dead because of what the Law says. We are therefore "under the law".
Now what? Once we find the Commandment, read it, and understand that we are guilty before God and the judgment given in this Law is death, what can we do?
There is no Law that can give life.
Gal. 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
So here we are dead, and there is no law that we can perform to take that death away. We are under the Law, or under the curse of the law. Dead.
No man is justified by deeds of the law: for the law is the knowledge of sin.(Death)
Rom. 6:14 For sin(Transgression of God's Commandments) shall not have dominion(kill you) over you: for ye are not under the law,(Dead) but under grace.(Alive)
15 What then? shall we sin, (continue to transgress God's Commandments?)because we are not (Dead) under the law, but (Alive)under grace? God forbid.
Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin(Transgression of God's Commandments) unto death,(back under the law) or of obedience unto righteousness? (Repentance and works worthy of repentance)
Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened,(after repentance) who were dead (under the Law)in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: (Before repentance)
Who are the children disobeying?
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past (Before required repentance)in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, (Before repentance)even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved,
(Rom. 2:4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
I truly believe EVERY scripture you posted, but I also know there are other scriptures which more clearly explain the true meaning of these.
You seem to somehow believe that these few scriptures you posted makes void the rest of the Bible which speaks about God and His Salvation regarding the required repentance and subsequent works worthy of repentance that Jesus clearly commanded. I know the mainstream preachers of today teach a different meaning for what "Under the Law" means in order to justify their traditions and man made doctrines as prophesied.
I have posted just a few scriptures in support of my belief, actually the whole Bible teaches this truth but I don't want to make a post that long.
Thanks for your reply
I don't believe "Under the Law" means following God's Law. I believe "Under the Law" means dead. Gentiles who didn't even know God's Law were still condemned by the Law.
Rom. 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
This way "Everybody" is brought to the same place, death, because they all, both Gentiles and Jews transgressed God Law.
Rom. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
It doesn't matter if I'm a Jew and know the Law or am a gentile and don't know the law, Transgressing God's Law is sin, and the "soul that sins shall die".
The preaching that "under the Law" means under God Commandments is not true. For one, the Gentiles were spiritually dead having not known the Law.
I don't believe the mainstream preaching on this.
The preaching that God created His instructions for mankind so that every mouth may be stopped and all the WORLD may become Guilty before God is not supported by scripture. God didn't bring everybody "Under the Law" as defined by todays mainstream preachers, He brought everybody under death so as to bring us all to Christ for redemption, those who knew the Law and those who didn't.
God said of Abraham:
Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
So Abraham wasn't judged guilty before God so his mouth may be stopped by being "Under the Law" as you define it.
He was brought "under the Law" meaning death, and was forgiven by the Blood of Jesus because he trusted enough in God to follow His Instructions. This trust was called "Faith". Abraham was also dead in his sins. But we know he repented and brought forth works worthy of repentance. This is why Jesus said before our sins are forgiven we MUST.
#1. Repent of our ways and turn to God and His Ways Jew or Gentile. (As Abraham did was considered faithful)
#2. Bring Works Worthy of Repentance because Jesus teaches us we will be judged by our works. (As Abraham showed)
This is what Paul taught.
Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should (ALL) repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Without this repentance Grace will not help us, there is no being "Freed from death". Without this repentance and subsequent works worthy of repentance we are still "Dead in our sins".
Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
This is why Paul teaches:
Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,(True Repentance) that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.(Works worthy of Repentance)
Eph. 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness,(DEAD in our sins) but now are ye light in the Lord
repentant) walk as children of light: (works worthy of repentance)9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth) (Man's righteousness or God's righteousness?)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.(works Worthy of Repentance)
If you understand that the term "Under the Law" means death as the Bible teaches, then the meaning of the scripture doesn't contradict the rest of the Bible.
Rom. 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law(Spiritually DEAD): that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
So here we are, everyone, all the world, guilty before God of sinning and the wages of sin is death. We are all dead because of what the Law says. We are therefore "under the law".
Now what? Once we find the Commandment, read it, and understand that we are guilty before God and the judgment given in this Law is death, what can we do?
There is no Law that can give life.
Gal. 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
So here we are dead, and there is no law that we can perform to take that death away. We are under the Law, or under the curse of the law. Dead.
No man is justified by deeds of the law: for the law is the knowledge of sin.(Death)
Rom. 6:14 For sin(Transgression of God's Commandments) shall not have dominion(kill you) over you: for ye are not under the law,(Dead) but under grace.(Alive)
15 What then? shall we sin, (continue to transgress God's Commandments?)because we are not (Dead) under the law, but (Alive)under grace? God forbid.
Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin(Transgression of God's Commandments) unto death,(back under the law) or of obedience unto righteousness? (Repentance and works worthy of repentance)
Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened,(after repentance) who were dead (under the Law)in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: (Before repentance)
Who are the children disobeying?
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past (Before required repentance)in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, (Before repentance)even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved,
(Rom. 2:4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
I truly believe EVERY scripture you posted, but I also know there are other scriptures which more clearly explain the true meaning of these.
You seem to somehow believe that these few scriptures you posted makes void the rest of the Bible which speaks about God and His Salvation regarding the required repentance and subsequent works worthy of repentance that Jesus clearly commanded. I know the mainstream preachers of today teach a different meaning for what "Under the Law" means in order to justify their traditions and man made doctrines as prophesied.
I have posted just a few scriptures in support of my belief, actually the whole Bible teaches this truth but I don't want to make a post that long.
Thanks for your reply
I hope you don't mind studyman, but I only have a little time so here goes with what I have:
Life under the law.
Romans 3:19, "So the judgement of God lies very heavily upon the Jews, for they are responsible to keep God’s laws instead of doing all these evil things; not one of them has any excuse; in fact, all the world stands hushed and guilty before Almighty God."
You say, "I don't believe "Under the Law" means following God's Law. I believe "Under the Law" means dead. Gentiles who didn't even know God's Law were still condemned by the Law."
Bible commentator says, "Summation: the law cannot save us from our sin and the penalty it deserves."
It seems you are correct.
------------------------------
Romans 2:12-15, "He will punish sin wherever it is found. He will punish the heathen when they sin, even though they never had God’s written laws, for down in their hearts they know right from wrong. God’s laws are written within them; their own conscience accuses them, or sometimes excuses them. And God will punish the Jews for sinning because they have his written laws but don’t obey them. They know what is right but don’t do it. After all, salvation is not given to those who know what to do, unless they do it."
You say, "This way "Everybody" is brought to the same place, death, because they all, both Gentiles and Jews transgressed God Law.
Commentator, "For there is no partiality with God"
It seems you are correct.
--------------------------------
Life under Christ.
Romans 8:2, "For the power of the life-giving Spirit, and this power is mine through Christ Jesus, has freed me from the vicious circle of sin and death.
Romans 7:9, "That is why I felt fine so long as I did not understand what the law really demanded. But when I learned the truth, I realized that I had broken the law and was a sinner, doomed to die."
You say, "It doesn't matter if I'm a Jew and know the Law or am a gentile and don't know the law, Transgressing God's Law is sin, and the "soul that sins shall die". The preaching that "under the Law" means under God Commandments is not true. For one, the Gentiles were spiritually dead having not known the Law. I don't believe the mainstream preaching on this.
Commentator, Rom 8:1 tells us we are free from the guilt of sin.
Rom 8:2 tells us we are free from the power of sin.
Rom 7:9 Paul tells us He was quite secure in his ignorance while he was in transgression of the law, until he learned the truth when he met Christ on the Damascus Road.
It seems you are correct in your belief that whether Jew or Gentile, "the soul that sins shall die."
Scriptures from the TLB (Paraphrased).
Life under the law.
Romans 3:19, "So the judgement of God lies very heavily upon the Jews, for they are responsible to keep God’s laws instead of doing all these evil things; not one of them has any excuse; in fact, all the world stands hushed and guilty before Almighty God."
You say, "I don't believe "Under the Law" means following God's Law. I believe "Under the Law" means dead. Gentiles who didn't even know God's Law were still condemned by the Law."
Bible commentator says, "Summation: the law cannot save us from our sin and the penalty it deserves."
It seems you are correct.
------------------------------
Romans 2:12-15, "He will punish sin wherever it is found. He will punish the heathen when they sin, even though they never had God’s written laws, for down in their hearts they know right from wrong. God’s laws are written within them; their own conscience accuses them, or sometimes excuses them. And God will punish the Jews for sinning because they have his written laws but don’t obey them. They know what is right but don’t do it. After all, salvation is not given to those who know what to do, unless they do it."
You say, "This way "Everybody" is brought to the same place, death, because they all, both Gentiles and Jews transgressed God Law.
Commentator, "For there is no partiality with God"
It seems you are correct.
--------------------------------
Life under Christ.
Romans 8:2, "For the power of the life-giving Spirit, and this power is mine through Christ Jesus, has freed me from the vicious circle of sin and death.
Romans 7:9, "That is why I felt fine so long as I did not understand what the law really demanded. But when I learned the truth, I realized that I had broken the law and was a sinner, doomed to die."
You say, "It doesn't matter if I'm a Jew and know the Law or am a gentile and don't know the law, Transgressing God's Law is sin, and the "soul that sins shall die". The preaching that "under the Law" means under God Commandments is not true. For one, the Gentiles were spiritually dead having not known the Law. I don't believe the mainstream preaching on this.
Commentator, Rom 8:1 tells us we are free from the guilt of sin.
Rom 8:2 tells us we are free from the power of sin.
Rom 7:9 Paul tells us He was quite secure in his ignorance while he was in transgression of the law, until he learned the truth when he met Christ on the Damascus Road.
It seems you are correct in your belief that whether Jew or Gentile, "the soul that sins shall die."
Scriptures from the TLB (Paraphrased).
Didn't know do not steal was a horrendous work...
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 19:16-17, "And see, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life? And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – YHWH. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”[/FONT]
“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]judgment seat” is word #G968 - béma: a step, raised place, by impl. A tribunal, Original Word: βῆμα, ατος, τό, Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter, Transliteration: béma, Phonetic Spelling: (bay'-ma), Short Definition: the space covered by a step of the foot, a tribunal, Definition: an elevated place ascended by steps, a throne, tribunal.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 19:16-17, "And see, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life? And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – YHWH. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”[/FONT]
“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]judgment seat” is word #G968 - béma: a step, raised place, by impl. A tribunal, Original Word: βῆμα, ατος, τό, Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter, Transliteration: béma, Phonetic Spelling: (bay'-ma), Short Definition: the space covered by a step of the foot, a tribunal, Definition: an elevated place ascended by steps, a throne, tribunal.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
Its not a horrendous work. But the question is should Christians work at the 10 commandments?
And the answer is, only if they don't believe in Christ and what He has done.
Galatians 2:21 [FONT="]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
[/FONT]Galatians 3:10 [FONT="]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[/FONT]Romans 6:14 [FONT="]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[/FONT]Galatians 3:2-3
[FONT="]2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Romans 8:2-3
[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[/FONT]
And the answer is, only if they don't believe in Christ and what He has done.
Galatians 2:21 [FONT="]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
[/FONT]Galatians 3:10 [FONT="]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[/FONT]Romans 6:14 [FONT="]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[/FONT]Galatians 3:2-3
[FONT="]2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Romans 8:2-3
[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[/FONT]
yet Yahshua/Jesus and the NT writers say the Commandments are to be followed:
James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”
Mat 19:16-17, "And see, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life? And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – YHWH. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.”
Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושעMessiah."
1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”
and it even says he who does not guard them is a liar:
1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”
Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.”
Deuteronomy 6:5, “And you shall love יהוה your Strength with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.”
Leviticus 19:18, ‘Do not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the children of your people. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am יהוה.”
Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”
Mat 19:16-17, "And see, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life? And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – YHWH. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.”
Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושעMessiah."
1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”
and it even says he who does not guard them is a liar:
1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”
Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.”
Deuteronomy 6:5, “And you shall love יהוה your Strength with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.”
Leviticus 19:18, ‘Do not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the children of your people. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am יהוה.”
Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Yes. But how is it accomplished? Are we just to look to the law like Judaism does and try real hard to obey?
No. We are told that is not the way. Not the way of Christianity.
Romans 9:30-33
[FONT="]30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.[/FONT]
[FONT="]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT="]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 10:3-4
[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Galatians 3:24-25
[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[/FONT]
No. We are told that is not the way. Not the way of Christianity.
Romans 9:30-33
[FONT="]30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.[/FONT]
[FONT="]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT="]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 10:3-4
[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Galatians 3:24-25
[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New American Standard Bible - Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version - This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation - This means that God's holy people must endure persecution patiently, obeying his commands and maintaining their faith in Jesus.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New American Standard Bible - Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version - This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation - This means that God's holy people must endure persecution patiently, obeying his commands and maintaining their faith in Jesus.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
That statement is the epitome of irony.
We must beware of misguided teachers of the law who mix law and grace and the old covenant with the new covenant and pervert the Gospel.
We must beware of misguided teachers of the law who mix law and grace and the old covenant with the new covenant and pervert the Gospel.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law* through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law*!"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*“Law” is word # G3551 – nomos, Strong's Concordance, nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law, Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ, Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine, Transliteration: nomos, Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os), Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law, Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of, law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law;, metion: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:16, "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”[/FONT]
E
That statement is the epitome of irony.
We must beware of misguided teachers of the law who mix law and grace and the old covenant with the new covenant and pervert the Gospel.
We must beware of misguided teachers of the law who mix law and grace and the old covenant with the new covenant and pervert the Gospel.
That was Paul’s exact warning to Timothy, Who he was setting up too lead his church in Ephesus. Its obvious it was just as bad a problem back in Paul’s day as it is today
E
How do we establish the law? Can you answer this? I know this was asked before.
So By obeying the law we can be righteous? Would that not take perfection? And is this not talking about the righteousness of salvation. Are you claiming we are saved by obedience to the law?
What did paul claim was the law of sin? Or where is this law found in the Bible?
So By obeying the law we can be righteous? Would that not take perfection? And is this not talking about the righteousness of salvation. Are you claiming we are saved by obedience to the law?
What did paul claim was the law of sin? Or where is this law found in the Bible?