Paul's testimony in chapter 7 of Romans

[lightbearer]

In regards to chapter 7 in Romans. The Christian walk is a battle of the old man vs the new. The old man (the "flesh", the sin nature) still exists, as Paul wrote.



However the beginning of chapter eight should actually be in the same chapter as seven. It is a continuation of Paul's testimony. Paul states he hath been made free from the law of sin and death. He is no longer in captivity to the Law of which was in his members; he is in the Spirit in Christ because Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh and condemned sin in the flesh; His flesh. That the righteousness of the law can be fulfilled in him (us). For Jesus Christ his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. So be healed and go and sin no more.For if after we have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, we are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.




(1Pe 2:24; 2Pe 2:20)




There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me (Paul) free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do (in Paul's mind), in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.(Rom 8:1-4)




Please notice in that there in only no condemnation if we are walking in the Spirit and that Jesus condemned sin; taking it away; nailing it to the cross that the righteousness be fulfilled (completely filled ) in us.

 

[lightbearer]

Please notice in that there in only no condemnation if we are walking in the Spirit and that Jesus condemned sin; taking it away; nailing it to the cross that the righteousness be fulfilled (completely filled ) in us.

In regards to the word fulfilled I would like to add a foot note. It is translated from the Greek word pleroo.

From Mickelson's enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries.
G4137 πληρόω pleroo (play-roh'-o) v.
1. to fully, completely fill
2. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow)
3. (figuratively) to fully supply, satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.

Pleroo which is to fully fill; completely fill. This how much of the righteousness of the Law is in us or should be in us who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. Remember what John says? He says, " He that is doing righteousness is righteous even as HE (Jesus) is righteous.

"Even as" is a direct comparison to how Jesus was righteous. So How was Jesus righteous?

By GOD's indwelling Spirit. He says in John 14:10, "...but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

As Paul wrote, "GOD works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure."

With man this is impossible; but with GOD all things are possible!

 

[lightbearer]

So when we have the blinders taken off we can clearly see that Paul is stating that He has been freed from the Law of sin and Death. His flesh no longer had dominion over him. He was no longer doing the things that he would not. He was experiencing the victory over the flesh through Christ Jesus.

So the common teaching from chapter seven in Romans is heresy. That Paul was continuing in sin because he could not help himself is a direct slap in the face to all that Christ did for us, and to all that Paul shared in and of the Gospel.

 

[Adstar]

So when we have the blinders taken off we can clearly see that Paul is stating that He has been freed from the Law of sin and Death. His flesh no longer had dominion over him. He was no longer doing the things that he would not. He was experiencing the victory over the flesh through Christ Jesus.

So the common teaching from chapter seven in Romans is heresy. That Paul was continuing in sin because he could not help himself is a direct slap in the face to all that Christ did for us, and to all that Paul shared in and of the Gospel.

No.. Paul says in Romans 7 that he,, In Present Tense.

Romans 7: KJV
15"For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."

So Paul is talking about His current state of being.. A man who does the sins he wishes not to do. And the good things he wishes he would do he fails to do.. This is not past tense.. Paul is not talking about a former version of himself but the current version of Himself..

Paul later gives us a worthy saying which should be accepted by all Christians.. He said::


1 Timothy 1: KJV
15 "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

Paul did not say I was once a chief as in past tense, or i was formerly a chief sinner.. But Paul stated that He was at the time of writing a chief sinner.. And stated that all Christians should also accept this saying and also state it too..

 

[lightbearer]

No.. Paul says in Romans 7 that he,, In Present Tense.

Romans 7: KJV
15"For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."

So Paul is talking about His current state of being.. A man who does the sins he wishes not to do. And the good things he wishes he would do he fails to do.. This is not past tense.. Paul is not talking about a former version of himself but the current version of Himself..

Paul later gives us a worthy saying which should be accepted by all Christians.. He said::

Then he condemns himself by his opening comment in verse 8....

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If he was still doing the things that he would not he was walking in the flesh and still under condemnation.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death

If he was still doing the things that he would not he would not be free of the law of sin and the body of death which in his members..(7:23,24)

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Sin was condemned in the flesh of Jesus. It shall not have dominion. We have been made free from the Law of sin that worketh in our members by He Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead (seperated) to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

We can not walk after the flesh, do things that we would not and the righteousness of the Law be fufilled in us. It is one or the other.
(Rom 8:1-5 KJV)

1 Timothy 1: KJV
15 "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

Paul did not say I was once a chief as in past tense, or i was formerly a chief sinner.. But Paul stated that He was at the time of writing a chief sinner.. And stated that all Christians should also accept this saying and also state it too..

Paul was speaking rhetorically in regards to verse 13.

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.(1Ti 1:13 KJV)

Did Paul continue in sin that grace abounded? God forbid How could he that was dead to sin live any longer therein? For he was dead nevertheless he lived; but not he, but Christ liveth in him. And the life he lived in the flesh he lived by the faith of the Son of GOD. He Who was manifested to taketh away our sins and in Him is no sin.
And they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. (Rom 6:1; Gal 2:20; Eph 5:32)

 

[Studyman]

Then he condemns himself by his opening comment in verse 8....

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If he was still doing the things that he would not he was walking in the flesh and still under condemnation.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death

If he was still doing the things that he would not he would not be free of the law of sin and the body of death which in his members..(7:23,24)

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Sin was condemned in the flesh of Jesus. It shall not have dominion. We have been made free from the Law of sin that worketh in our members by He Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead (seperated) to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

We can not walk after the flesh, do things that we would not and the righteousness of the Law be fufilled in us. It is one or the other.
(Rom 8:1-5 KJV)



Paul was speaking rhetorically in regards to verse 13.

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.(1Ti 1:13 KJV)

Did Paul continue in sin that grace abounded? God forbid How could he that was dead to sin live any longer therein? For he was dead nevertheless he lived; but not he, but Christ liveth in him. And the life he lived in the flesh he lived by the faith of the Son of GOD. He Who was manifested to taketh away our sins and in Him is no sin.
And they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. (Rom 6:1; Gal 2:20; Eph 5:32)

Very nice LB,

Jesus, through Paul, is letting each of us know that all who turn to Him will face these struggles and that is OK.

1 PET.5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Matt. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


So refreshing to see there are others who understand Paul.

Very good post

 

[shrume]

Then he condemns himself by his opening comment in verse 8....

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If he was still doing the things that he would not he was walking in the flesh and still under condemnation.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death

If he was still doing the things that he would not he would not be free of the law of sin and the body of death which in his members..(7:23,24)

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Sin was condemned in the flesh of Jesus. It shall not have dominion. We have been made free from the Law of sin that worketh in our members by He Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead (seperated) to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

We can not walk after the flesh, do things that we would not and the righteousness of the Law be fufilled in us. It is one or the other.
(Rom 8:1-5 KJV)



Paul was speaking rhetorically in regards to verse 13.

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.(1Ti 1:13 KJV)

Did Paul continue in sin that grace abounded? God forbid How could he that was dead to sin live any longer therein? For he was dead nevertheless he lived; but not he, but Christ liveth in him. And the life he lived in the flesh he lived by the faith of the Son of GOD. He Who was manifested to taketh away our sins and in Him is no sin.
And they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. (Rom 6:1; Gal 2:20; Eph 5:32)

Just know that because of the sin that dwells in you, you will fall short of living in sinless perfection, lightbearer. You will still occasionally do things you know not to do, and you will not do things you know you should.

We all fall short. That's why 1 John 1:

8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Also, the last half of Romans 8:1 is not in the text.

Rom 8:
1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The red is not in the text. If you are in Christ (meaning a born again Christian, with Christ in you (Col 1:27)), you will not be condemned.

 

[Adstar]

Then he condemns himself by his opening comment in verse 8....

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If he was still doing the things that he would not he was walking in the flesh and still under condemnation.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death

If he was still doing the things that he would not he would not be free of the law of sin and the body of death which in his members..(7:23,24)

He was condemning His Flesh...... Not His Spirit......

We should all condemn our own flesh by sayiung that faithfull saying that we are all chief sinners.. Paul was condemning his flesh body which will die but our Spirit that is in Christ shall be given a New perfect incorruptable sinless body to dwell in for eternity...

Sinlessness in the flesh preachers like you continue to get it wrong..

1 John 1: KJV
{8} If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."



The critical verse in Romans 7 is the last verse which reveals the truth of our current Christian situation::

Romans 7: KJV
25 "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

So Pauls Mind was in agreement with Gods truth.. But His flesh was cursed with the carnal sin nature.. At the Same time... Note again he never said My flesh formerly served the Law of sin... So again the verse is in present tense.. meaning that this was the state of Pauls condition at the time of writing Romans..



Romans 8: KJV
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: {4} That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. {5} For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. {6} For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."

 

[lightbearer]

He was condemning His Flesh...... Not His Spirit......

He doesn’t condemn anything. Jesus does.

Let’s take a closer look at the word mind as seen in verses 7:23,25; 8:5,6,7

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind (intellect, understanding), and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (intellect, understanding) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Why Intellect and understanding parenthesis?

Because it states in Mickelson’s Strong’s enhanced:
G3563 νοῦς nous (nous`) n.
1. the intellect, i.e. the mind
2. (by implication) meaning...

From the BDAG lexicon….
a) mind, intellect as the side of life contrasted w. physical existence, the higher, mental part of a human being that initiates thoughts and plans (Apollonius of Tyana [I A.D.] in Eus., PE 4, 13; Orig., C. Cels. 8, 38, 21; 52, 24; Did., Gen. 57, 26): ὁ νόμος τοῦ νοός (μου) the law of (my) intellect Ro 7:22 v.l., 23. (Opp. σάρξ) τῷ ν. δουλεύειν νόμῳ θεοῦ serve the law of God w. one’s intellect vs. 25.
b) understanding, mind as faculty[SM1] of thinking...


Romans 7:23, 25 are referring to an acknowledgement to one’s understanding. Paul says he gets it. His intellect understands and his mind is a slave to it, but it does not help him gain victory over the sin in his flesh.
Now for Rom 8:5, “For they that are after the flesh do mind (entertain, exercise ) the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.”


Why entertain and exercise in parenthesis?
Because Mickelson’ Strong’s affirms:

G5426 φρονέω phroneo (fron-eh'-o) v.
1. to exercise the mind, i.e. entertain or have a sentiment or opinion
2. (by implication) to be (mentally) disposed (more or less earnestly in a certain direction)
3. (intensively) to interest oneself in (with concern or obedience)

The BDAG states:
1) to have an opinion with regard to someth., think, form/hold an opinion, judge…
2) to give careful consideration to someth., set one’s mind on, be intent on, foll. by the acc. (Brutus, Ep. 14 τὰ σὰ φρ.)….
3) to develop an attitude based on careful thought, be minded/disposed…

And finally Rom 8:6,7 “For to be carnally minded (inclined, purposed) is death; but to be spiritually minded (inclined, purposed) is life and peace. Because the carnal mind (inclined, purposed) is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. ”

Why inclined and purpose in parenthesis?
Because Mickelson's work confirms it.

G5427 φρόνημα phronema (fron'-ay-mah) n.
1. (mental) inclination or purpose…
BDAG:
φρόνημα, ατος, τό (fr. φρήν via φρονέω; Aeschyl., Hdt. et al.; Vett. Val. 109, 2; 2 Macc 7:21; 13:9; Philo, Joseph.; Hippol., Ref. 1, 2, 1 [philosophical: ‘point of view’]) the faculty of fixing one’s mind on someth., way of thinking, mind(-set)

So if one is entertaining the flesh with their mind. The have made the flesh their purpose. They are in the flesh and they cannot please GOD.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But we are not in the flesh but the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made us free from the law of sin and death. For what the could not do because an intellectual understanding is weak against the flesh. God sending HIS Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and condemned sin in the flesh. That the righteousness of the law be fulfilled to the uttermost in us. Who walk not after the flesh but the Spirit. ​

[HR][/HR]

 

[lightbearer]

Just know that because of the sin that dwells in you,

you will fall short of living in sinless perfection, lightbearer.​

.

Your comment has nothing to do with the op Shrume

 

[MarcR]

Just know that because of the sin that dwells in you, you will fall short of living in sinless perfection, lightbearer. You will still occasionally do things you know not to do, and you will not do things you know you should.

We all fall short. That's why 1 John 1:

8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Also, the last half of Romans 8:1 is not in the text.

Rom 8:
1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The red is not in the text. If you are in Christ (meaning a born again Christian, with Christ in you (Col 1:27)), you will not be condemned.

It is not in the Nestle text; but it is in both the Textus Receptus , and in the Majority text.

There is considerable disagreement on many threads regarding which text is superior and we are not likely to resolve that here.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Just know that because of the sin that dwells in you, you will fall short of living in sinless perfection, lightbearer. You will still occasionally do things you know not to do, and you will not do things you know you should.

We all fall short. That's why 1 John 1:

8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Also, the last half of Romans 8:1 is not in the text.

Rom 8:
1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The red is not in the text. If you are in Christ (meaning a born again Christian, with Christ in you (Col 1:27)), you will not be condemned.

If we fall short, we have an advocate, we can repent, get up, and begin running our race to abide in Him more and more.
The goal to me is not ever stumbling or having a misstep. The goal for me is to get up and begin running again.

In other words, to me, the goal is to gain endurance and abide in Him for longer and longer periods of time without stumbling. My focus isn't on when or how I will stumble. Its on Him, the perfecter and finisher of my faith. When I stumble, I don't beat myself up. In fact, I am usually happy because He teaches and strengthens me and I start running again to grab what I have been grabbed for!

 

[followjesus]

In regards to chapter 7 in Romans. The Christian walk is a battle of the old man vs the new. The old man (the "flesh", the sin nature) still exists, as Paul wrote.



However the beginning of chapter eight should actually be in the same chapter as seven. It is a continuation of Paul's testimony. Paul states he hath been made free from the law of sin and death. He is no longer in captivity to the Law of which was in his members; he is in the Spirit in Christ because Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh and condemned sin in the flesh; His flesh. That the righteousness of the law can be fulfilled in him (us). For Jesus Christ his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. So be healed and go and sin no more.For if after we have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, we are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.




(1Pe 2:24; 2Pe 2:20)




There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me (Paul) free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do (in Paul's mind), in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.(Rom 8:1-4)




Please notice in that there in only no condemnation if we are walking in the Spirit and that Jesus condemned sin; taking it away; nailing it to the cross that the righteousness be fulfilled (completely filled ) in us.

really great post God bless.


i think really paul is speaking from chapter 6 all the way to 8, explaining in chapter 7 the sinful nature, and how it came to be through the commandment which was ordained to keep thier Life , but it became death through deception and sin. shpwing How this became a part of mans nature, we can want to be perfect in every deed, but we arent able to do it because we were corrupted with the Law of sin, that came by the " good and evil" that was Now in man,


the Old man is baptized into Jesus death in ch6, and is raised with Him to a newness of Life, the New man. the New man is created in true Righteousness, the Old man is to be left in the tomb as we walk in the spirit.

 

[shrume]

i think really paul is speaking from chapter 6 all the way to 8, explaining in chapter 7 the sinful nature, and how it came to be through the commandment which was ordained to keep thier Life

The sinful nature did not "come to be" through the commandment. It came to be when Adam sinned.

but it became death through deception and sin. shpwing How this became a part of mans nature, we can want to be perfect in every deed, but we arent able to do it because we were corrupted with the Law of sin, that came by the " good and evil" that was Now in man

The law (of sin) is not what corrupted people, it's what showed that man was already corrupt, because nobody could 100% keep the law.

What corrupted people, giving them their sin nature, was Adam's sin (Rom 5:12).

the Old man is baptized into Jesus death in ch6, and is raised with Him to a newness of Life, the New man. the New man is created in true Righteousness, the Old man is to be left in the tomb as we walk in the spirit.

Amen!

 

[MarcR]

Then he condemns himself by his opening comment in verse 8....

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If he was still doing the things that he would not he was walking in the flesh and still under condemnation.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death

If he was still doing the things that he would not he would not be free of the law of sin and the body of death which in his members..(7:23,24)

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Sin was condemned in the flesh of Jesus. It shall not have dominion. We have been made free from the Law of sin that worketh in our members by He Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead (seperated) to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

We can not walk after the flesh, do things that we would not and the righteousness of the Law be fufilled in us. It is one or the other.
(Rom 8:1-5 KJV)



Paul was speaking rhetorically in regards to verse 13.

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.(1Ti 1:13 KJV)

Did Paul continue in sin that grace abounded? God forbid How could he that was dead to sin live any longer therein? For he was dead nevertheless he lived; but not he, but Christ liveth in him. And the life he lived in the flesh he lived by the faith of the Son of GOD. He Who was manifested to taketh away our sins and in Him is no sin.
And they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. (Rom 6:1; Gal 2:20; Eph 5:32)

Paul's statement in Ro 8:1 is that people can't please God by their own efforts. The only way to be pleasing to God or righteous in His eyes is by trusting God, by His holy Spirit within us, to accomplish this in and for us.

 

[Sagart]

So when we have the blinders taken off we can clearly see that Paul is stating that He has been freed from the Law of sin and Death. His flesh no longer had dominion over him. He was no longer doing the things that he would not. He was experiencing the victory over the flesh through Christ Jesus.

Yes, indeed he was—as all Christians should be and could be. Like…are Christians saved—or not?

So the common teaching from chapter seven in Romans is heresy. That Paul was continuing in sin because he could not help himself is a direct slap in the face to all that Christ did for us, and to all that Paul shared in and of the Gospel.

Actually, there are three different interpretations of Romans 7:14-25 that are commonly put forth:

1. The man in Romans 7:14-25 is an unregenerate but devout Jew struggling with all his might to keep the Law, but miserably failing to do so. This was the view of the early Greek Church Fathers who wrote on the issue: Origen (184-254), Chrysostom (347-407), and Theodoret (393-458). It was also the view of the early Latin Church Father Tertullian (160-223). It is also, by far, the most popular view among Arminian Christians.

2. The man in Romans 7:14-25 is Paul after his conversion, but before his sanctification. This view is popular among many middle-of-the-road Baptists today.

3. The man in Romans 7:14-25 is Paul after his conversion and at the time, he wrote his Epistle to the Romans. This was the view of most of the early Latin Church Fathers who wrote on the issue: Hilary, Bishop of Poitiers (315-368), Ambrose, Bishop of Milan (340-397), Augustine, Bishop of Hippo (354-430) but only in the last two or three years of his life, and Pope Gregory (I) the Great (540-604). This is by far the most popular view among Calvinistic and Reformed Baptists today. It is also by far the most popular view among other Reformed Christians and Lutherans.

There are also quite a few less popular interpretations—some of which may pop up in this thread.

Regarding view #3, the linguist and Bible scholar Adam Clarke, in his commentary on the Bible, wrote,

It is difficult to conceive how the opinion could have crept into the Church, or prevailed there, that “the apostle speaks here of his regenerate state; and that what was, in such a state, true of himself, must be true of all others in the same state.” This opinion has, most pitifully and most shamefully, not only lowered the standard of Christianity, but destroyed its influence and disgraced its character. It requires but little knowledge of the spirit of the Gospel, and of the scope of this epistle, to see that the apostle is, here, either personating a Jew under the law and without the Gospel, or showing what his own state was when he was deeply convinced that by the deeds of the law no man could be justified, and had not as yet heard those blessed words: Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way, hath sent me that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, Act_9:17.​

 

[lightbearer]

Paul's statement in Ro 8:1 is that people can't please God by their own efforts. The only way to be pleasing to God or righteous in His eyes is by trusting God, by His holy Spirit within us, to accomplish this in and for us.

Hi MarcR,
In, for, and through us?

 

[lightbearer]

Yes, indeed he was—as all Christians should be and could be. Like…are Christians saved—or not?

Amen!!! Or as we say today; yeah man!

Actually, there are three different interpretations of Romans 7:14-25 that are commonly put forth:

Thanks for your footwork my friend. In this day and age information is but a click away and to many are not willing to utilize it.

3. The man in Romans 7:14-25 is Paul after his conversion and at the time, he wrote his Epistle to the Romans. This was the view of most of the early Latin Church Fathers who wrote on the issue: Hilary, Bishop of Poitiers (315-368), Ambrose, Bishop of Milan (340-397), Augustine, Bishop of Hippo (354-430) but only in the last two or three years of his life, and Pope Gregory (I) the Great (540-604). This is by far the most popular view among Calvinistic and Reformed Baptists today. It is also by far the most popular view among other Reformed Christians and Lutherans.

Regarding view #3, the linguist and Bible scholar Adam Clarke, in his commentary on the Bible, wrote,

It is difficult to conceive how the opinion could have crept into the Church, or prevailed there, that “the apostle speaks here of his regenerate state; and that what was, in such a state, true of himself, must be true of all others in the same state.” This opinion has, most pitifully and most shamefully, not only lowered the standard of Christianity, but destroyed its influence and disgraced its character. It requires but little knowledge of the spirit of the Gospel, and of the scope of this epistle, to see that the apostle is, here, either personating a Jew under the law and without the Gospel, or showing what his own state was when he was deeply convinced that by the deeds of the law no man could be justified, and had not as yet heard those blessed words: Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way, hath sent me that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, Act_9:17.​

I did not know Mr. Clarke had that view. Praise GOD!

Paul said, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." And free he was indeed! No longer in captivity to the law of sin which is in his members; the body of this death.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

His flesh and dare I say ours also? Is the flesh is still here?

If it were not how could we still have the option to walk after it?
​

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled to the uttermost in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.



So now through Christ to will is present; and how to perform that which is good is found.
For the good that we would we now do: and the evil which we would not, we do not.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made us free from the law of sin and death. For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.
​

(Rom 8:2,3,4)

Paul states he hath been made free from the law of sin and death. He is no longer in captivity to the Law of which was in his members period.​

​

No.. Paul says in Romans 7 that he,, In Present Tense.

Romans 7: KJV
15"For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."

So Paul is talking about His current state of being..

Historic present my friend. Here is excerpt from Thayer's work.

Tense-Present
The present tense represents a simple statement of fact
or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases
this corresponds directly with the English present tense.


Some phrases which might be rendered as past tense in English
will often occur in the present tense in Greek. These are
termed "historical presents, " and such occurrences dramatize
the event described as if the reader were there watching the
event occur. Some English translations render such historical
presents in the English past tense, while others permit the
tense to remain in the present.

 

[Sagart]

Amen!!! Or as we say today; yeah man!


Thanks for your footwork my friend. In this day and age information is but a click away and to many are not willing to utilize it.

I did not know Mr. Clarke had that view. Praise GOD!

Paul said, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." And free he was indeed! No longer in captivity to the law of sin which is in his members; the body of this death.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

His flesh and dare I say ours also? Is the flesh is still here?
If it were not how could we still have the option to walk after it?

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled to the uttermost in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.



So now through Christ to will is present; and how to perform that which is good is found.
For the good that we would we now do: and the evil which we would not, we do not.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made us free from the law of sin and death. For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.

(Rom 8:2,3,4)


Paul states he hath been made free from the law of sin and death. He is no longer in captivity to the Law of which was in his members period.

Amen!

I heard an old, old story,
How a Savior came from glory,
How He gave His life on Calvary
To save a wretch like me;
I heard about His groaning,
Of His precious blood's atoning,
Then I repented of my sins
And won the victory.
Chorus
O victory in Jesus,
My Savior, forever.
He sought me and bought me
With His redeeming blood;
He loved me ere I knew Him
And all my love is due Him,
He plunged me to victory,
Beneath the cleansing flood.

https://originofsongs.blogspot.com/2013/08/victory-in-jesus.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGq0J9IGmxQ

 

[Sagart]

Historic present my friend. Here is excerpt from Thayer's work.

Tense-Present
The present tense represents a simple statement of fact
or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases
this corresponds directly with the English present tense.


Some phrases which might be rendered as past tense in English
will often occur in the present tense in Greek. These are
termed "historical presents, " and such occurrences dramatize
the event described as if the reader were there watching the
event occur. Some English translations render such historical
presents in the English past tense, while others permit the
tense to remain in the present.

The Greek historical present tense is indeed used in the New Testament, but if Paul was using the Greek historical present tense in the seventh chapter of Romans, it would necessarily mean that Romans 7:14-25 is autobiographical—which is often supposed—but such a horrible life of spiritual defeat was not his even before his rebirth. Indeed, in writing to the Christians in Philippi, he writes of his life as an unregenerate Jew,

Philippians 3:5. circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;
6. as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless. (NASB, 1995)

So—who is the man in Romans 7:14-25? It cannot possibly be Saul of Tarsus; and if it is Paul the Christian—upon his rebirth in Christ, Paul was “sold into bondage to sin” (Romans 7:14) and lived a wretched, sinful life! The true answer is that Paul, in Romans 7:14-25, is using the literary device known as “speech in character,” and the character in Romans 7:14-25 is an unregenerate but devout Jew struggling with all his might to keep the Law, but miserably failing to do so because he lacks the help of the Holy Spirit!