The scriptures 2009

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Feb 7, 2015
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This is based on the word. "renew?" Can you explain a little more?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Sounds to me, that (an) "Over Romanticizing" Jesus, as "Jehovah's Savior" (a true love is blind scenario) elicits too much credit to the Only begotten, of the Father, and not the Everlasting Father!

It is important we make this distinction between the 2. If Jesus did indeed create ALL? THEN? He would know the end, From The Beginning! Right? To give an illustration, "This is my Son!" "I gave My Son, ALL My Authority, All My Power, and all that He knows!" "What My son doesn't have, is ALL that "I" know!"
Meaning, that when Jesus' Disciples asked Him, when He would return? Jesus could tell them what the times would be like.
Yet Jesus COULDN'T say when He would return! Why? One might ask? It wasn't HIS DECISION TO MAKE! What was it that Jesus said when asked? Oh yeah! "Only My/The Father in Heaven KNOWS!" And, when believer's try to say outright, or even allude by saying "Well!...He didn't know THEN...But, He knows NOW!" They are just, in these eyes, and others, as well, admitting culpability, and, if not corrected? In serious jeopardy, of believing a LIE!

You see? Even God the Father's only begotten, would not usurp, nor even ASSUME His Father's Place! But, the spirit of "INSTEAD OF (anti) Christ" WOULD, and, has!

Having said this?
Is Jesus Christ worthy of worship and praise, as The Father's only begotten, and AS GOD the Father Himself? NO!
Is Jesus Christ worthy of worship and praise as High Priest and Kinsmen Redeemer, as Jehovah's Savior, and, ONLY WAY to the Father? YES!
As God, or Jehovah's only begotten? ABSOLUTELY! But, don't allow your praise and worship of the Son, to cloud your judgement to WHO the Father is! When this happens? You have become part of the problem!
Right now is the present day ministry of Jesus Christ. What Holy Spirit reveals is Jesus to us for there is no other way to Father. In turn, to see Jesus in truth, we see Father. At the final end, Jesus turns us all over to Father.

But, to love one, is to love all three. Unified.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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This is based on the word. "renew?" Can you explain a little more?
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 111:9, “He sent redemption to His people, He has commanded His covenant forever. Set-apart and awesome is His Name."[/FONT]

Chadash 2318.png

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Hebrew word for “new”/”re-new” is the word “chadash.” In Strong’s Concordance this one word it has 3 entries; #H2318, #H2319, and #H2320. If you look at the light blue boxes the original Hebrew word is highlighted in yellow. It is the same ancient Hebrew word for all 3 entries, however there is a difference in the words; vowel pointing. Vowel pointing was not in the original Manuscripts, and was added to the written Hebrew language from 600CE-1,100CE. Without the added vowel points it is only one word, not 3.[/FONT]


Chadash 2319.png

Chadash 2320.png

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiyl 36:26, “And I shall give you a new (#H2318) heart and put a new (#H2318) spirit within you. And I shall take the heart of stone out of your flesh, and I shall give you a heart of flesh.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Word #H2318 or “chadash” is used in this passage, believed to be written by Ezekiyl sometime between the years 597BCE-562BCE, and it did not contain vowel points, because they were not invented until 600CE-1,100CE, a minimum of 1,200 years after Ezekiyl wrote his book.[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And you will see most tr5anstions translate this exact same word and even same Strongs entry as new in Ezekiel 36 and renewed in Psalm 51, this in itself is proof that what I say is possible at minimum.[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 51:10, “Create in me a clean heart, O Yah; and renew a right spirit within me.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]renew” is word #2318 - chadash: to renew, repair, Original Word: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]חָדַשׁ[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: chadash, Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-dash'), Short Definition: renew[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Also if we look to the Septuagint (a Greek translation of the Hebrew “OT” we find a clue to the original words use and meaning; In the Koine Greek these two Greek words, neos and kainos, have been rendered as “new” in almost all translations. The latter’s meaning differs from the former, and is derived from the verb kainoo, which means “to make new.” The Hebrew equivalent of this verb is cḥadash, which means “to renew.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Example:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"New Moon" it is the same "moon" every 30 days, but it starts it's cycle over every 30 days... Again it is not a literal new moon... People misunderstand/don't understand the foresight of Yah, that He knew all that would happen before it did, it's not like He realized one day, oh I messed up, I have to change this, no but rather the physical priesthood and animal sacrifice were a placeholder, "the weak and unprofitable" a thing for the people to "have faith/works in" before Messiah came, but it was the foresight of Messiah, a way for them to understand a need for Him while letting the people have their go a it. This Psalm explains it so so so perfectly IMO, better than I ever could:[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 89:26-37, “He calls out to Me, ‘You are my Father, My Ĕl, and the rock of my deliverance.’ I also appoint him first-born, Highest of the sovereigns of the earth. I guard My kindness for him forever, And My covenant is steadfast with him. And I shall establish his seed forever, And his throne as the days of the heavens. If his sons forsake My Torah And do not walk in My right-rulings, If they profane My laws And do not guard My commands, Then I shall visit their transgression with the rod, And their crookedness with flogging. But My kindness I do not take away from him, Nor be false to My trustworthiness. I shall not profane My covenant, Neither would I change what has gone out from My lips. Once I have sworn by My set-apartness, I do not lie to Dawiḏ: His seed shall be forever, And his throne as the sun before Me; Like the moon, it is established forever, And the witness in the heaven is steadfast.” Selah.[/FONT]



“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]My covenant is steadfast with him” and “I shall not profane My covenant, Neither would I change what has gone out from My lips[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 4:31, “For [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength is a compassionate Strength, He does not forsake you, nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers which He swore to them.”

Ratified in the blood of Yahshua/Jesus.
[/FONT]
 
Nov 12, 2015
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@Stunnedbygrace,

A little late I know, but I found something out about this bible on
https://www.bibliatodo.com/en/search-bible?s=renewed&version=the-scriptures-2009&ant=nt

Here's a few examples:

1 Corinthians 11:25

In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, ?This cup is the renewed covenant in My blood. As often as you drink it, do this in remembrance of Me.?
Other versionssee the chapter


2 Corinthians 3:6

who also made us competent as servants of a renewed covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit, for the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
Other versionssee the chapter

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Messiah, he is a renewed creature ? the old matters have passed away, see, all matters have become renewed!d Footnote: d Rom 6:2-22, Gal 2:20, Eph 4:22-24, Col 3:10, 1Jn 3:9-10.
Other versionssee the chapter


2 Peter 3:13

But according to His promise we wait for a renewed heavens and a renewed earth Isa 65:17, Isa 66:22 in which righteousness dwells.
Other versionssee the chapter

IMO, this seems to be a Judiazer bible of some sort.
If there's this much mistranslation on one word, there's probably more than this in it.

Yes I saw that. I have been reading this translation a lot since I downloaded it and that was one of the things that bothered me. There are many more things too.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Yes I saw that. I have been reading this translation a lot since I downloaded it and that was one of the things that bothered me. There are many more things too.
And as you read, my main concern was that the translation seemed geared to confusing men regarding names and disputing over words when scripture is more about broad understandings.

It was so alarming to me that I pushed hiz very hard. My one question after reading a good amount of the translation was, do you believe Jesus is God? I kept asking it and he finally admitted he was uncertain on the matter. So I think my fear was valid.

If an unlearned old woman could see that the translation was calling into question the divinity of Jesus or at least muddying the matter, and be able to ask the valid question of is Jesus God (of a person she had always assumed believed this!) Then those who are more learned will see what I did if they read it too.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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"The Dead Sea scrolls reveal that a TRILINGUALISM EXISTED IN PALESTINE in the first and second century of the Christian era. In addition to Aramaic, some Jews also spoke Hebrew or Greek -- or both. Different levels of Jewish society, different kinds of religious training and other factors may have determined who spoke what"

Greek, of course, was in widespread use in the Roman empire at this time. Even the Romans spoke Greek, as inscriptions in Rome and elsewhere attest. It is hardly surprising, therefore, that THAT GREEK WAS ALSO IN COMMON USE AMONG THE JEWS OF PALESTINE.

What about Jesus Christ, and the apostles? Did they, too, commonly speak Greek as a "second language"?

"The answer is almost certainly yes. The more difficult question, however, is whether he taught in Greek. Are any of the sayings of Jesus that are preserved for us only in Greek nevertheless in the original language in which he uttered them?

"That Aramaic was the language Jesus normally used for both conversation and teaching seems clear. Most New Testament scholars would agree with this. But did he also speak Greek? The evidence already recounted for the use of Greek in first-century Palestine provides the background for an answer to this question. But there are more specific indi- cations in the Gospels themselves.

"All four Gospels depict Jesus conversing with Pontius Pilate, the Roman prefect of Judea, at the time of his trial (Mark 15;2-5; Matthew 27:11-14; Luke 23:3; John 18:33- 38). Even if we allow for obvious literary embellishment of these accounts, there can be little doubt that Jesus and Pilate did engage in some kind of conversation . . . In what language did Jesus and Pilate converse? There is no mention of an interpreter. Since there is little likelihood that Pilate, a Roman, would have been able to speak either Aramaic or Hebrew, the obvious answer is that JESUS SPOKE GREEK at his trial before Pilate" (p.61).

Similarly, when Jesus conversed with the Roman centurion, a commander of a troop of Roman soldiers, the centurion most likely did not speak Aramaic or Hebrew. It is most likely that Jesus conversed with him in Greek, the common language of the time throughout the Roman empire (see Matt.8:5-13; Luke 7:2-10; John 4:46-53). A royal official of Rome, in the service of Herod Antipas, a Gentile, would most likely spoken with Jesus in Greek.

In addition, we find that Jesus journeyed to the pagan area of Tyre and Sidon, where He spoke with a Syro-Phoenician woman. The Gospel of Mark identifies this woman as Hellenes, meaning a "Greek" (Mark 7:26). The probability is, therefore, that Jesus spoke to her in Greek."


Why the New Testament was Written in Greek, Not Hebrew
Greek wasn't just for the rich or educated. In fact, it was Hebrew that became the language that was lost and had to be studied by the young boys in the synagogues. Alexander the Great didn't just conquer the physical world. His goal was to change culture and language. He wanted the whole world to be Hellenized. (Made Greek). And he largely succeeded. That is why the Hebrew Bible was translated from the 3rd to 1st century BC, because the Jews had lost their Hebrew, and a group of men wanted the Jews to continue to read the Bible in a language the Bible was written in.

So Greek as the lingua franca (common language) was well established long before Jesus was lived. Even the Romans used it! Jesus certainly knew Greek as the quote above demonstrates. One thing I read in my studies, was that Jesus told jokes in Aramaic, mostly puns. But puns are plays on words, and when it is translated into another language, the punny part is usually lost. Scholars have back translated the Greek into Aramaic and found these puns. However, I don't remember which book I read this in, and can't give an example.

As far as Hizakyah, I like that he posts the Hebrew names. But probably that is because I have studied Hebrew. I think Jesus probably went by both Yeshua and Iesous, because he spoke both Aramaic and Greek. (I assume that Yeshua must be near the Aramaic name, because the languages have a lot of common words and roots). I also think Jesus spoke or at least understood some Hebrew, simply because as a boy growing up, he would have studied the Hebrew Bible in the synagogue, with all the other boys.

English speakers are so stunned that anyone could speak more than one language. But I am sure Trofimus can attest to the number of languages most Europeans speak. My grandfather spoke 5 languages well, and he was from Europe. Once you get past the first language, the other languages get easier, even if they are not linguistically related (like Hebrew and Aramaic, or French and Spanish, etc). Even my studies in Greek have been tremendously helpful in learning German, and vice versa, as there are remarkable similarities between the languages, at least in grammatical structure!

I am purposely reading Holman's (HCSB) right now, because it does translate the tetragram in the OT to Yahweh. Unfortunately as MarcR posted and my Hebrew professor also pointed out, there is no "w" in Hebrew, and it is more likely Yahveh. But, better than the generic "Lord" which could also be Baal. That is why the original languages help.

PS.I don't think reading the names in Hebrew or Greek are important! We need to speak with God using the name that is in our heart language. For me, that will always be Jesus! But certainly, we can learn from being exposed to Hebrew or Greek, even if we don't read those languages well. Of course, that means learning the alphabet, which can be a stumbling block!
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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As far as Hizakyah, I like that he posts the Hebrew names. But probably that is because I have studied Hebrew.

Hi Angela,

Hizikyah uses the name Yahshua for Jesus and Yahanan for John. I have not studied Hebrew but have read Hebrew scholars and these above examples do not exist for either for Jesus or John. I would not say this is a good example to like.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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my Hebrew professor also pointed out, there is no "w" in Hebrew, and it is more likely Yahveh. But, better than the generic "Lord" which could also be Baal. That is why the original languages help.
I enjoy you post and respect your opinion, and want to say; It is in modern Hebrew that the "v" exists, in ancient Hebrew it did not. From my knowledge it is derived from the letter "waw" and is in use in the 16 th century.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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I enjoy you post and respect your opinion, and want to say; It is in modern Hebrew that the "v" exists, in ancient Hebrew it did not. From my knowledge it is derived from the letter "waw" and is in use in the 16 th century.
If you are calling the Hebrew Roots invention of 'Paleo Hebrew' ancient Hebrew, you are mistaken.

'Paleo Hebrew' is approximately 40 years old. In the sense that Hebrew Roots uses the word Paleo, Babylonian cuneiform, Egyptian Hieroglyphics and and Chinese kangi are paleo because they have a character for each word ib the vocabulary
Hebrew with 22 consonants or 33 graphemes doesn't have enough symbols to be paleo and has always been a phonetic language. The orthography of the language may have more closely resembled the Cyro-phonecian in ancient times but it was still phonetic.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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If you are calling the Hebrew Roots invention of 'Paleo Hebrew' ancient Hebrew, you are mistaken.

'Paleo Hebrew' is approximately 40 years old. In the sense that Hebrew Roots uses the word Paleo, Babylonian cuneiform, Egyptian Hieroglyphics and and Chinese kangi are paleo because they have a character for each word ib the vocabulary
Hebrew with 22 consonants or 33 graphemes doesn't have enough symbols to be paleo and has always been a phonetic language. The orthography of the language may have more closely resembled the Cyro-phonecian in ancient times but it was still phonetic.
No Im not saying that, and paelo Hebrew is the mnost ancient Hebrew.

What Im saying is this letter:

ו
is a waw not a vav, it is in modenrn Hebrew that tel abib is tel aviv, and the monthof abib is aviv, etc... to me there is paelo Hebrew (characters), ancient Hebrew (without vowel points), mosoretic hebrew (with vowel points) and modern Hebrew used in Israel today, from my studied it is a waw originally, and a vav in Israel now. To me not a point of contention but I wanted to mention it.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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No Im not saying that, and paelo Hebrew is the mnost ancient Hebrew.

What Im saying is this letter:

ו
is a waw not a vav, it is in modenrn Hebrew that tel abib is tel aviv, and the monthof abib is aviv, etc... to me there is paelo Hebrew (characters), ancient Hebrew (without vowel points), mosoretic hebrew (with vowel points) and modern Hebrew used in Israel today, from my studied it is a waw originally, and a vav in Israel now. To me not a point of contention but I wanted to mention it.
Hebrew is used by Jewish congregations all over the world. the ו is pronounced as a vahv NOT a WAW only in Aribic speaking countries other than YEMEN. In Iran (Persia) where Pharsee is spoken it is pronounced as a vahv.
In Yemen, even though Arabic is spoken, it is pronounced as a vahv. In other countries where Arabic is spoken, it is pronounced as a waw, but the W is Arabic NOT Hebrew.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Hebrew is used by Jewish congregations all over the world. the ו is pronounced as a vahv NOT a WAW only in Aribic speaking countries other than YEMEN. In Iran (Persia) where Pharsee is spoken it is pronounced as a vahv.
In Yemen, even though Arabic is spoken, it is pronounced as a vahv. In other countries where Arabic is spoken, it is pronounced as a waw, but the W is Arabic NOT Hebrew.
the Hebrew spoken today is not the same as biblical Hebrew from the year 600 and the Hebrew from the year 600 is not the same as the Hebrew fom Yahshua's time.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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the Hebrew spoken today is not the same as biblical Hebrew from the year 600 and the Hebrew from the year 600 is not the same as the Hebrew fom Yahshua's time.
The Hebrew used in Synagogues around the world is indeed Biblical Hebrew. The Hebrew spoken in Israel is essentially Biblical Hebrew with words added to allow the language to function in modern times.

The Hebrew in the Mesoratic text is virtually identical to that of the dead sea scrolls. You were not present in the first century or the seventh century to compare pronunciation with modern pronunciation.

There are 5 major dialects of Hebrew in use in synagogues around the world.

Saphardic Hebrew is used by Jews in Spain , Turkey and the Caucuses, and in Yemen.
Ashkenazi Hebrew is used in most of Europe and most American synagogues.
Litvak Hebrew is used in Latvia Lithuania, Estonia and Finland.
Sabra Hebrew is used in Israel by those who were born there
Arabica Hebrew is used in Arabic countries other than Yemen.

ONLY Arabica Hebrew uses a waw.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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The Hebrew used in Synagogues around the world is indeed Biblical Hebrew. The Hebrew spoken in Israel is essentially Biblical Hebrew with words added to allow the language to function in modern times.

The Hebrew in the Mesoratic text is virtually identical to that of the dead sea scrolls. You were not present in the first century or the seventh century to compare pronunciation with modern pronunciation.

There are 5 major dialects of Hebrew in use in synagogues around the world.

Saphardic Hebrew is used by Jews in Spain , Turkey and the Caucuses, and in Yemen.
Ashkenazi Hebrew is used in most of Europe and most American synagogues.
Litvak Hebrew is used in Latvia Lithuania, Estonia and Finland.
Sabra Hebrew is used in Israel by those who were born there
Arabica Hebrew is used in Arabic countries other than Yemen.

ONLY Arabica Hebrew uses a waw.


MarcR,

Really appreciate these knowledgeable posts.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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The Hebrew used in Synagogues around the world is indeed Biblical Hebrew. The Hebrew spoken in Israel is essentially Biblical Hebrew with words added to allow the language to function in modern times.

The Hebrew in the Mesoratic text is virtually identical to that of the dead sea scrolls. You were not present in the first century or the seventh century to compare pronunciation with modern pronunciation.

There are 5 major dialects of Hebrew in use in synagogues around the world.

Saphardic Hebrew is used by Jews in Spain , Turkey and the Caucuses, and in Yemen.
Ashkenazi Hebrew is used in most of Europe and most American synagogues.
Litvak Hebrew is used in Latvia Lithuania, Estonia and Finland.
Sabra Hebrew is used in Israel by those who were born there
Arabica Hebrew is used in Arabic countries other than Yemen.

ONLY Arabica Hebrew uses a waw.
so you list 5 typoes of modern hebrew and they are all the same or different?

and the masoretic text added vowel points to the language, therefore it is no longer the same.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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pre vowel points Jeremiah 23:27, "החשבים להשכיח את עמי שמי בחלומתם אשר יספרו איש לרעהו כאשר שכחו אבותם את שמי בבעל:"

with vowel points Jeremiah 23:27, "הַחֹשְׁבִים לְהַשְׁכִּיחַ אֶת־עַמִּי שְׁמִי בַּחֲלוֹמֹתָם אֲשֶׁר יְסַפְּרוּ אִישׁ לְרֵעֵהוּ כַּאֲשֶׁר שָׁכְחוּ אֲבוֹתָם אֶת־שְׁמִי בַּבָּעַל ׃"
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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Australia
Sounds to me, that (an) "Over Romanticizing" Jesus, as "Jehovah's Savior" (a true love is blind scenario) elicits too much credit to the Only begotten, of the Father, and not the Everlasting Father!

It is important we make this distinction between the 2. If Jesus did indeed create ALL? THEN? He would know the end, From The Beginning! Right? To give an illustration, "This is my Son!" "I gave My Son, ALL My Authority, All My Power, and all that He knows!" "What My son doesn't have, is ALL that "I" know!"
Meaning, that when Jesus' Disciples asked Him, when He would return? Jesus could tell them what the times would be like.
Yet Jesus COULDN'T say when He would return! Why? One might ask? It wasn't HIS DECISION TO MAKE! What was it that Jesus said when asked? Oh yeah! "Only My/The Father in Heaven KNOWS!" And, when believer's try to say outright, or even allude by saying "Well!...He didn't know THEN...But, He knows NOW!" They are just, in these eyes, and others, as well, admitting culpability, and, if not corrected? In serious jeopardy, of believing a LIE!

You see? Even God the Father's only begotten, would not usurp, nor even ASSUME His Father's Place! But, the spirit of "INSTEAD OF (anti) Christ" WOULD, and, has!

Having said this?
Is Jesus Christ worthy of worship and praise, as The Father's only begotten, and AS GOD the Father Himself? NO!
Is Jesus Christ worthy of worship and praise as High Priest and Kinsmen Redeemer, as Jehovah's Savior, and, ONLY WAY to the Father? YES!
As God, or Jehovah's only begotten? ABSOLUTELY! But, don't allow your praise and worship of the Son, to cloud your judgement to WHO the Father is! When this happens? You have become part of the problem!
The Father and I are one Jesus said..

All things are created through Him... And for Him.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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I don't want to appear more Holy by using the name Yahshua.. my version is kjv and can get JAH and Shua and Vah from there.. funnily enough my life taught me that J represents a Y sound as in Yam.. or even Jan pronounced Yan.. so the J as in Jam sound was an addition later on I learnt..

Now if I have confused you then have a smile on me my dear .. for I’m a simple gal with little linguistic knowledge.. and I think you already knew this..

Nevertheless my belief is that if they tried to hide GOD’s name from His people all those years ago they will be at it again..

GOD is above all things let us all do things for His Glory and if I ever appear to think I’m more Holy then GOD abase me..
The J was quite innocent. It simply arose from the German for Y. The Germans pronounce y as J.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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so you list 5 typoes of modern hebrew and they are all the same or different?

and the masoretic text added vowel points to the language, therefore it is no longer the same.
They are as different as English spoken in Alabama is different from English spoken in Brooklyn or Chicago.

The language was spoken before the Masoretes added the vowel pointings The vowel pointings were used to teach non- native speakers proper pronunciation, in the same way diacritical markings are used in textbooks to teach foreign languages.

if you ignore the vowel pointings the text is unchanged
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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They are as different as English spoken in Alabama is different from English spoken in Brooklyn or Chicago.

The language was spoken before the Masoretes added the vowel pointings The vowel pointings were used to teach non- native speakers proper pronunciation, in the same way diacritical markings are used in textbooks to teach foreign languages.

if you ignore the vowel pointings the text is unchanged
yes I agree 100% if the vowel points are ignored the rest of the text remains, but the purnunciation may or may not remain, as Did you know that they cheacked the accuracy of a copied text by counting every letter from front to back and back tp front and meeting in the middle letter of the entire torah, and if it was off by a single letter it would be discarded?

and that vowel points of adonai and elohim were added to YHWH and the pharoisees said it was not to be read as YHWH but as adonai or elohim?

but this is a change in the language any way one slices it