Do people burn in hell forever?

[garee]

Garee, you have to abide by the meanings of the words provided in the context. The everlasting destruction is complete loss of well being, ruination of one's status with God for all eternity, not annihilation or extinction.

Yes ever lasting destruction never to rise to new eternal spirit life forever and ever .

There is no spirit life in dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

According to all related scriptures, Life and death are both states of existence. Life is being in the joyful presence of God and death is separation from God and complete loss of well being. Everyone who comes into the world, whether righteous or wicked, exists for ever. Everyone whether righteous or wicked will both receive a resurrected body - (Dan.12:2, Acts 24:15).

Complete loss of all being... no spirit the essence of life . The dead know nothing they feel nothing .

Unless a person is Catholic with their list of the legion who might be sought after 3500 and rising what they call patron saints and scriptures calls workers with familiar spirits then necromancy becomes the foundation.

Psa 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

It would make no sense for the wicked to also receive a resurrected body if it was just going to be immediately burnt up in the lake of fire. The bodies that the wicked will receive will not be destroyed by the flame, but will experience to torment of the heat. This is how the smoke of their torment can rise up forever and ever.

There is no promise for the wicked to receive a new body. It is persevered for those in Hebrew 11 .

And this is not a matter of me looking forward to people going to judgment and being cast into the lake of fire, which I am not. But this is a matter of contending for the truth and accuracy of God's word against those who are claiming and teaching annihilation who have simply departed from the truth..

The truth is hell is a living work of suffering .Can’t work to suffer without a spirit .Dead is dead. Living is living. No limbo in between

Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Search the meaning of the parable “heart of the earth” (the earth with her bars was about me forever)
and compare it to the “belly of the whale” the belly of hell as to the reason of his affliction.( living suffering)

Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God Jon 2:1

 

[garee]

First off I'm a Sister....not a Brother in Christ. My Bible has never taught me the immortality of the wicked. It teaches me death, destroy, ashes under your feet. Never has my Bible taught me that the spirit goes off elsewhere. It teaches me that the breath of life God gives returns to Him but the body turns to dust that the dead know nothing, they no longer work, praise God or anything else.

My Bible never has taught me that the minute you die you go to hell. Hell is also another word for the grave.

I think most of the ones who believe in immortality of the soul don't understand that dead is dead. It is comforting to them to think their loved one is up in heaven, but the Bible does not teach that you go directly to heaven or hell when you die just from dust you came and to dust you return.

There are two resurrections one for the righteous when Jesus returns and the second at the end when the wicked are resurrected for the final time to receive their final punishment and are thrown in the lake of fire.

Bible also teaches that the final enemy to be destroyed is death which is also thrown in the lake of fire. So the hell or lake of fire I believe in is the one at the very end of the world/sin as we know it.

Guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Again a study on death, hell, using concordance is enlightening.

The rich man and Lazarus is a parable the way Jesus taught.

God does not lie when he says the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

satan does lie however saying you will not surly die.... You will die if you are wicked and don't accept Jesus as your Savior and accept his sacrifice made to pay our debt for sin.

I agree with what you offered but would recommend hell being a living work of suffering . In the grave there can be no work.

 

[TMS]

The Bible clearly asserts that this fire devours the wicked right here on "the breadth of the earth."
Peter states: "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." 2 Pet 3:7. Then he goes on to describe the day of the Lord which will melt the very elements with fervent heat.

The language of Peter is very explicit about the place of punishment for the un- godly. He says this earth is reserved for that fire which will bring judgment and perdition to the wicked. Their punishment will be in this earth. Isaiah declared, "For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch." Isa 34:8,9.
The prophet portrays the entire planet enveloped in the destroying fire
There are several reasons for being so sure that the hell fire is not eternal. First of all, this earth is also declared to be the final home for the righteous. Jesus said, "Blessed are the meek: For they shall inherit the earth." Matt 5:5. Peter, after describing this earth exploding and burning with a great noise, saw a new earth filled with righteousness. "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." 2 Pet 3:13.

 

[TMS]

The wicked or unsaved do not get eternal life.
The wicked cannot continue to live in this earth because they have never trusted Christ for eternal life. It is only the righteous who receive the gift of eternal life. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish. ..." John 3:16. But what about those who don't believe in him? They surely will perish. The Bible says, "The wages of sin is death." Rom 6:23. Please don't miss the pointed simplicity of these verses. The wicked are never promised life. They are promised death-eternal death. Only the righteous are promised life-eternal life.

 

[TMS]

But there is only one way to get life without end, and that is through faith in Jesus. John describes it this way: "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1 John 5:11,12.
Let me ask you a question: Do those wicked ones in the lake of fire have the Son of God? Of course not. Then how could they have life? John says, "Ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." 1 John 3:15. Will those murderers in hell-fire continue to have life for eternity? Never.

 

[TMS]

"Behold I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." 1 Cor 15:51-53.

Must be changed, must put on in-corruption, and must put on immortality. is this given to the wicket?

This text speaks of a certain point in time when the righteous will be instantly changed into immortal beings. That time is still future. It occurs when Jesus returns, at the last trumpet sound, when the resurrection takes place. Nowhere in the Bible do we read of the wicked being changed in this manner. And it is precisely because they never receive this gift of eternal life that they are unable to keep living in the lake of fire.

It is inconceivable and unreasonable to fabricate such an event. It is contrary to the Bible and repugnant to the senses. Ezekiel declared, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Eze 18:4. No matter what we understand a soul to be, let's accept the simple Bible fact that it can die and will die as a result of sin.

If the wicked live eternally in the fire, then they have the same thing as the righteous except in a different place.

 

[maxwel]

Here are a couple of things to consider:



1. If you commit a crime against an INFINITE being, what makes you think it doesn't constitute a crime of INFINITE magnitude?

To think otherwise is just a presumption.

When you commit a crime against an infinite being, you may well be committing a crime of infinite magnitude.

And you have no way to prove otherwise.
Any presumption you make to the contrary is only a presumption.



2. If you commit a crime against an infinite being, just precisely WHAT should the punishment be... and just precisely WHAT gives you any ability to arrive at this punishment?

HOW can you possibly know in what manner an infinite being should judge sin?

You have no way to logically answer this.
You have no way to know, or even guess, how a crime against an infinite being should be punished.



Philosophically, we don't have very strong grounds to say eternal punishment is necessarily unjust.

 

[TMS]

Here are a couple of things to consider:



1. If you commit a crime against an INFINITE being, what makes you think it doesn't constitute a crime of INFINITE magnitude?

To think otherwise is just a presumption.

When you commit a crime against an infinite being, you may well be committing a crime of infinite magnitude.

And you have no way to prove otherwise.
Any presumption you make to the contrary is only a presumption.



2. If you commit a crime against an infinite being, just precisely WHAT should the punishment be... and just precisely WHAT gives you any ability to arrive at this punishment?

HOW can you possibly know in what manner an infinite being should judge sin?

You have no way to logically answer this.
You have no way to know, or even guess, how a crime against an infinite being should be punished.



Philosophically, we don't have very strong grounds to say eternal punishment is necessarily unjust.

It is not presumption when the Bible is clear about the subject.
Eze_18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Gen_2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Rom_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Jas_1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.




Sin = death, Not life. that is plain and simple not a presumption.

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Is the death of sin a temporary one, and than we all get eternal life even without the gift from Christ?

It isn't presumption it is fact that sin = eternal death.

 

[TMS]

Someone may raise this question: What about the unquenchable fire that burns the wicked? Doesn't that mean it will never go out? Of course, it doesn't. To quench means to extinguish or put out. No one will be able to put out the fire of hell. That is the strange fire of God. No one will be able to escape from it by extinguishing it. Isaiah says of that fire, "Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor a fire to sit before it." Isa 47:14. After it has accomplished its work of destruction, that fire will go out. No one can deliver themselves from its flame by putting it out, but finally not a coal will be left. So say the Scriptures.

unquenchable = unable to be put out at that time, not all eternity.

 

[maxwel]

It is not presumption when the Bible is clear about the subject.
Eze_18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Gen_2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Rom_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Jas_1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.




Sin = death, Not life. that is plain and simple not a presumption.

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Is the death of sin a temporary one, and than we all get eternal life even without the gift from Christ?

It isn't presumption it is fact that sin = eternal death.

What are biblical definitions of DEATH?


I'm sure people in this thread have already dealt with proper biblical definitions of "death".

If not, they will... these things are commonly known.



My original points were philosophical points, to deal with philosophical objections.

I'll leave it to others to discuss definitions of biblical terms... I'm sure many people here are more than capable.

 

[Ahwatukee]

It is not presumption when the Bible is clear about the subject.
Eze_18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Hello TMS,

Because you continue to define death as unconsciousness or non existence, your arguments above are in vain. As I explained before and provided the scripture to support it, once the body dies the spirit departs and is very much conscious and aware for both righteous and unrighteous. This can be seen in the event of the rich man and Lazarus. Two men died, one righteous the other wicked and both their spirits were found in Sheol/Hades. Also in the opening of the 5th seal we see the souls under the altar conversing with the Lord and being given white robes to wear. We see Moses and Elijah meeting with Christ on the mount where the Lord appeared in his glorified state, etc.

The reference to death refers to one's state of being in relation to God. Those who die without Christ have not been reconciled to God and therefore will remain separated from God. Life and death are both states of conscious existence. Death in relation to God is complete loss of eternal well being, ruination. Death does not mean annihilation or extinction.


Death (for those not in Christ) = Eternal conscious separation from God in torment in the lake of fire.

When the unrighteous die, their spirit departs and goes down into Sheol/Hades which is temporary, where they begin their punishment in flame.

Life = Eternal joy in the presence of the Lord

When the righteous die, their spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord where they are also waiting for the resurrection of their bodies.

 

[Ahwatukee]

After it has accomplished its work of destruction, that fire will go out.

In saying the above, you have made the unquenchable, quenchable.

The lake of fire is described as everlasting. If you have it going out, then it is not everlasting.

Those who are cast into the lake of fire will have a resurrected body that will not be destroyed by the flames, but will experience the torment. In order for the smoke of their torment to rise up forever and ever, one would have to be existing in order to experience it. Likewise, that it said that those in the flame will have no rest day or night, would have to exist, being conscious and aware in order to experience that.

There is no scripture that speaks about eternal punishment as being temporary. It is a false teaching that has crept into the church like all of the other false teachings.


Think about this: we read about people committing suicide, with their thinking being that in order to get out of whatever is bothering them in life that by killing themselves they will just become non existent, fade to black. And you're telling us that God's punishment is the same thing that they are attempting to accomplish?


I tell you the truth, whatever was bothering them so much in life that they would end it, is nothing in comparison to what they experience in their spirit as soon as they take their last breath. For if they are without Christ and take their own life, they will find themselves in Hades in torment in flame. They will have traded the troubles of this life for much, much greater trouble in Hades. Once there, they will be in torment in flame where they will be resurrected and stand before God at the great white throne judgment only to be cast into the lake of fire, forever in torment. By the way, both the words punishment and torment carry the idea of being on-going, not temporary.

 

[Prov910]

In saying the above, you have made the unquenchable, quenchable.

The lake of fire is described as everlasting. If you have it going out, then it is not everlasting.

Those who are cast into the lake of fire will have a resurrected body that will not be destroyed by the flames, but will experience the torment. In order for the smoke of their torment to rise up forever and ever, one would have to be existing in order to experience it. Likewise, that it said that those in the flame will have no rest day or night, would have to exist, being conscious and aware in order to experience that.

There is no scripture that speaks about eternal punishment as being temporary. It is a false teaching that has crept into the church like all of the other false teachings.

Yikes! I dunno about that. Eternal punishment. Wouldn't that mean eternal life (in torment), rather than death? To me that just doesn't seems to be what Paul was saying to the Romans:

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom. 6:23)
​

It seems to me that Paul is contrasting eternal life with death here. Not eternal life in paradise with eternal life in torment. /jmho

 

[willfollowsGod]

I saw the quote below in another thread--the suicide thread. Coincidentally, just this morning I heard a radio program that dealt with this topic. I have my own opinions on the issue, but wanted to hear the beliefs of other CC members. Here's the quote:

A lot of people think that hell is a place of eternal torture but according to the Bible it is a place of eternal torment and those in there then are put into the lake of fire.

 

[willfollowsGod]

God is just, so hell is part of his justice and we deny it at our own peril, this is not about scaring people into hell and that trusting in Jesus is fire insurance. Those who do that, God will expose as not ever knowing him, though there are people who became Christians as a result of hearing that message and have become strong in their Christian faith and are fervently seeking the Lord everyday. Deny that hell exists and you sound like the world, even Jesus talked about it and it is not pleasant, it is very graphic. As for the story of the rich man and Lazarus, nowhere does it say it is just a parable. After all, why is the name of the man mentioned that he is Lazarus when all the other characters in the parables do not have names like that. There has to be a reason for that, it is not just a parable. As for the book of Revelation while there is symbolism in Revelation, there is also a lot of graphic detail that must be taken literally. When one plays that all of Revelation is symbolic, one is playing a dangerous game with the word of God, after all the ten plagues that occurred to Egypt were literal plagues and not just symbolic plagues. Christians having a problem with God's justice need to read the Bible as it is (The Old and New Testament and no throwing out what you do not like, instead ask God about these things) and accept it as it is and sadly WillieT, does not. I remember having a conversation in one of the BDF threads and he went after me and another who subscribe to what the Bible teaches on hell and not how we want it to be done. I felt condemned and told that I was worshiping a different God. I am not worshiping a different God, I am worshiping the God of the Bible, who is the same in the Old and the New Testaments and does not change. He is holy and just and loving at the same time. I am glad and grateful to Jesus that since I know him, I will not be eternally condemned in hell and experience what that rich man experienced. I believe what the Bible teaches and not what the world teaches about hell.

According to dictionary.com

Torment

a state of great bodily or mental suffering; agony; misery.


something that causes great bodily or mental pain or suffering.


Torture

the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.
a method of inflicting such pain.
extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
a cause of severe pain or anguish.

So there is a difference between torment and torture in the Bible and God is not cruel so he is not torturing people for eternity. God is not fireboarding everyone who does not call on his name he instead is exacting his eternal punishment on them which includes fire and even darkness, however that works only God knows, otherwise why tell people about Jesus if death is just soul sleep and hell is not part of the package with fire, which he describes and is described and alluded to in the account of Sodom and Gomorrah, Jude, etc? Does not make sense biblically speaking, hell is not like Dante's Divine Comedy and it is not a place of torture but torment. If it was torture, the Bible would say so, it does not. Thanks. God bless.

 

[garee]

Can't burn something that has gone up in smoke (returned to the dust it was formed from) . Or the spirit the father who gave it for a temporal time period .(80's years) it returns to him who gave it the first place. Those who have been freely given a new eternal spirit that will not die will be raised to new spirit life on the last day. Those who have not been born of the Spirit of Christ they will never rise to new spirit life.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Can't burn something that has gone up in smoke (returned to the dust it was formed from)

You can if you are in a resurrected body, which both the righteous and the wicked will receive. How else do you think that those who are thrown into the lake of fire that "the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever?" If their is nothing to burn then the smoke ones torment could not rise up. The flames will not be able to consume those resurrected bodies, but they will feel the torment from the flames.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Garee, there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. The word "anastasis" translated as resurrection means "to stand up again, bodily." Therefore, neither the righteous nor the wicked will remain in spirit form after death, for at some time both will be resurrected.

 

[Muzungu256]

Does not make sense biblically speaking, hell is not like Dante's Divine Comedy and it is not a place of torture but torment. If it was torture, the Bible would say so, it does not. Thanks. God bless.

either one says eternal. which ever word u use........... its not like dantes divine comedy but not nice u see

 

[garee]

You can if you are in a resurrected body, which both the righteous and the wicked will receive.

No one has received any kind of body . The first will be when we receive our new bodies . The literally dead remain dead.

No reincarnation to stand trial .Thats a Catholic teaching. they love to glory in the flesh by walking after it.> .


The Cadaver Synod (also called theCadaver Trial; Latin: Synodus Horrenda) is the name commonly given to the posthumous ecclesiastical trial of Pope Formosus, held in the Basilica of St. John Lateran in Rome during January 897.[1] The trial was conducted by Pope Stephen VI(sometimes called Stephen VII), who was the successor to Formosus' successor,Pope Boniface VI. Stephen accused Formosus of perjury and of having acceded to the papacy illegally. At the end of the trial, Formosus was pronounced guilty and his papacy retroactively declared null.

The dead (no spirit no body) cannot receive anything it has gone up in smoke or worm food. Never to rise to new spirit life forever and ever more

How else do you think that those who are thrown into the lake of fire that "the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever?"

It’s simply a way of saying there will be no change. God will not change his mind forever and ever. It does not mean that he never stops contemplating whether to give them a new spirit or not.... forever and ever. . Its like with the parable of the burning bush . Literal fire would consume the substance.

The heart of the earth is the living suffering we experience in this life called hell.

If their is nothing to burn then the smoke ones torment could not rise up. The flames will not be able to consume those resurrected bodies, but they will feel the torment from the flames.


You need a body and a spirit in order do the work of suffering . The dead feel no pain fore ever and ever.>

Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

There is no work in the grave. Hell represents the living suffering in both cases (Jonas and Jesus) .

 

[Ahwatukee]

No one has received any kind of body . The first will be when we receive our new bodies . The literally dead remain dead.

No reincarnation to stand trial .Thats a Catholic teaching. they love to glory in the flesh by walking after it.> .

Garee, who said anything about reincarnation? I said resurrection, which as scripture states, will take place for both the righteous and the wicked. As far as the wicked coming back to life, scripture says the following:

"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

The above is the resurrection of the unrighteous dead which takes place after the millennial period, where those spirits who will have been in Hades will be resurrected and will stand before God at the great white throne judgment. It is a resurrection, not reincarnation. Reincarnation is a Hindu teaching where people keep coming back over and over again until they perfected.

Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

All that the scripture above is saying is that, when the spirit is no longer in the body, then the body won't function. The spirit however is conscious and aware after departing from the body.

According to 2 Cor.5:6 and Phil.1:22-23, when the believer dies their spirit departs from the body and goes immediately to be in the presence of the Lord. When the resurrection takes place, the Lord will bring with him those spirits who have departed from their bodies and they will be reunited with their resurrected bodies, immortal and glorified.

The dead (no spirit no body) cannot receive anything it has gone up in smoke or worm food. Never to rise to new spirit life forever and ever more.

you should not be teaching on these things because you know nothing about it. God is going to reanimate the bodies of those who have died in Christ, taking on immortal and glorified qualities.

What about Jesus? He died and his spirit returned to his body that was lying in the tomb, rising in an immortal and glorified body.

We also have an example of the rich man and Lazarus, both of whom scripture says that they had died and yet their spirits were were conscious and aware in Sheol/Hades.

You need a body and a spirit in order do the work of suffering

And the unrighteous dead will be resurrected in order to experience that suffering.

You seriously need to stop teaching these things, because don't even understand what the resurrection is.