What does a "liberally progressive Christian" mean?
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I am not in disagreement with you here, butin my experience most HGM peeps I know are politically, far right nationalists to the point of militia minuteman mentality to Tea Party Christian Populists to run of the mill conservatives. I have not met many political progressive, liberal HGM peeps. Most progressive/liberals are in the Urban Methodist, Presbyterian, Nazarene and Lutheran denominations. The operative word is in Urban. The Urban Baptist churches are suffering from a very large identity crisis of who they are. While the IFB & SBC will tear you to shreds we are seeing their numbers dwindle.
The HGM is being supplanted by a far greater evil and that is the emergence of the seducing spirit infused, Concert-driven mega church.
mheh
your forgot the NAR....new apostles telling old lies...you can be like God...forget the Bible...we got something new
didn't think you would want to leave them out...
concert driven. that your inspired new label?
your forgot the NAR....new apostles telling old lies...you can be like God...forget the Bible...we got something new
didn't think you would want to leave them out...
concert driven. that your inspired new label?
The inspired new label came from a small teaching we went to a few weeks ago. The host pastor invited 2 former worship leaders from 1 from one of the largest NAR influenced movements in the world today and the other from another worldwide worship media company . They showed and exposed the real motivation behind their respective movements.
The attack and war on the avg sized[75-200] local church has commenced and many are missing it. The NAR and concert driven church model are just not demonic, their only desire is to crush the small local church that preaches and teaches the word of God.
the context is one who Identifies with liberal progressive politics and say they are a Christian. Which seems to be an oxymoron, because Nothing liberal progressives have anything to do with Christianity . In Fact They attack the moral relativeness of the Bible.
1. homosexuality
2. gay marriage
3. Abortion
4. Government is the answer.
5. BIRTH FROM socialism/Marxism
These are just a few from the top of my head
the context is one who Identifies with liberal progressive politics and say they are a Christian. Which seems to be an oxymoron, because Nothing liberal progressives have anything to do with Christianity . In Fact They attack the moral relativeness of the Bible.
1. homosexuality
2. gay marriage
3. Abortion
4. Government is the answer.
5. BIRTH FROM socialism/Marxism
These are just a few from the top of my head
1. homosexuality
2. gay marriage
3. Abortion
4. Government is the answer.
5. BIRTH FROM socialism/Marxism
These are just a few from the top of my head
7
well, that is not really true
studies actually vary from year to year as the link I provide at the end of this post will show
what happened to all the free birth control at planned parenthood?
this thread does not need to turn into an abortion thread as liberally progressive is far more than access to abortion
if one is going to state that poverty creates abortion, then look at the people believed to be poor who are getting abortions
teen-agers...in 2014 alone, 12% having an abortion were adolescents
single women....In 2014, some 46% of all abortion patients had never married and were not cohabiting.
irresponsible women who are fine with having sex but do not want children
women who have 'enough' children but somehow their fertility did not match up with their thoughts on the matter
- Overall, 53% of abortion patients paid out of pocket for their procedure in 2014, which indicates poverty is NOT the main reason for an abortion but probably a single woman, without a steady partner, who just could not say no
really, it's a big article I've linked to but it clearly shows that there is a very big variation in who gets an abortion and it varies from year to year and it appears abortions are actually down right now
so, making sweeping statements about anything at all really, only proves that those sweeping statements are most often misinformed of the actual facts
Dude,
I think you're a nice guy, but I'm going to have to go after this particular argument you pose.
We hear this argument repeated often, but repetition doesn't make a thing true.
Therefore, if you want to state this proposition as a truth, you'll need to support this proposition with evidence.
1. Please give PROOF and EVIDENCE that the #1 cause of abortion is poverty.
You'll need to do more than repeat things that are commonly repeated, you'll need to give actual data, corroborated data, from reliable sources.
2. Your proof and evidence will have to go beyond statistics that simply show "mostly poor people do it", because that is NOT enough to show an ORDER OF CAUSATION... you will need to show DIRECT CAUSATION.
It's probably not enough to show any causation of any kind, but it certainly isn't enough to show the order of causation.
I could just as easily say poor people have more abortions because poor people lack education, and because they lack education they are more prone to believe all the nonsense spouted by the abortion clinics... and therefore, it isn't really "poverty" that leads to higher rates of abortion, but that the cause is "LACK OF EDUCATION", or "TOO MANY ABORTION CLINICS IN POOR NEIGHBORHOODS", or "MOST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ARE POOR AND SO NATURALLY MOST ABORTIONS ARE BY POOR PEOPLE"... or any number of other things.
3. Finally, even if poverty CAN BE shown as the direct cause of abortion rates, Jesus said it's impossible to eliminate poverty, so it seems untenable for you to pose a solution which Jesus himself said was impossible.
Mat 26:11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always. Jesus talked about helping the poor, and having compassion on them... he never talked once about eliminating poverty. And if you think about it, no matter how you define poverty, totally eliminating poverty,as long as mankind has any kind of freedom, is just logically impossible.
Eliminating poverty, in a free society, is logically impossible.
- You can't force anyone to work.
- you can't force anyone to cash a check, or spend their money, or spend it on anything sensible.
- You can't force anyone to see the doctor even if they have free health care.
- You can't force anyone to buy groceries, or buy healthy groceries, or even eat at all.
- You can't force anyone to stay in a decent home where it's sensible to live.
- You can't stop all the mental disorders that make people poor and homeless and crazy.
- Even if you hand everyone a check ---- that doesn't necessarily stop any of their problems... they could still live without a home, they could still spend money on drugs instead of food, they could still be too crazy to take care of themselves, they could spend all their money on lottery tickets or horse races and still remain poor, and to perfectly realistic they could just chew up the check and swallow it because they like the taste... as long as people have freedom to choose, you cannot MAKE THEM choose anything. So you cannot FORCE people away from either poverty or bad judgement.
It is logically impossible to eliminate poverty in a society with any freedoms.
But we are still commanded to have compassion, and help them.
Conclusion:
A. First you'll have to prove there really IS correlation between poverty and abortion rates.
B. Then you will have to show there is DIRECT CAUSALITY... and since correlation doesn't equal causation... this is going to be very difficult for you.
C. You have to conclusively prove everything above before you can make the assertion that "eliminating poverty will lower abortion rates"
D. Then you'll have to deal with the scripture where Jesus claims eliminating poverty is IMPOSSIBLE, not to mention my simple logical proofs against it... so you're left with a conclusion which you cannot biblically, or logically, conclude.
* It seems to me your argument fails at every single point.
Dude,
I think this particular argument you're making is a bad argument.
I think you're making this argument with perfectly good intentions, and with a good heart.
I just think it's a bad argument.
The number one reason for abortion is the fact that the church is a coward when it comes to having honest and direct conversations about sex. So the enemy has taken the advantage in the battle of sex and he continues to receive blood offerings to Moloch because the church cannot simply, bluntly and plainly teach about sex, abstinence and parental responsibility.
QUOTE=Dude653;3380283]Jesus instructed his disciples to go forth and preach the gospel. What he didn't do is tell his disciples to go forth and force Christianity on anyone. If two men or two women want to get married then that's their constitutional right. You can't legislate Christianity. If I wanted a theocracy I would move to Saudi Arabia[/QUOTE]
let me clearer to what the question the thread was asking:" What does a "liberally progressive Christian" mean?
The term Liberal Progressive Christian is speaking to one or two things . They are a professing Christian and support the liberal progressive political positions . Or they are professing Christians who see the law of the land as equal to that of Gods word.
The idea that two men and women can get married because it their constitutional "State " right , is no more a right then marrying a child of 11 years of age . it is not forcing Christianity on anyone to say or repeat What God said " YOU SHALL NOT DO".
you can no more legislate a sexual preference than Christianity. And it is the constitutional protected right of an American Citizen to obey His or her moral stands. One does not trump the other. That to is a perversion of Liberal progressives .
They like to attack those who have a different opinion then they do. Also most Liberal progressives are hypocrites. They want to force their moral standard on the majority . it would be a sad day for them when those who profess to be Christians stood for What God says about atopic over ones own desire.
let me clearer
to what the question the thread was asking:" What does a "liberally progressive Christian" mean?The term Liberal Progressive Christian is speaking to one or two things . They are a professing Christian and support the liberal progressive political positions . Or they are professing Christians who see the law of the land as equal to that of Gods word.
The idea that two men and women can get married because it their constitutional "State " right , is no more a right then marrying a child of 11 years of age . it is not forcing Christianity on anyone to say or repeat What God said " YOU SHALL NOT DO".
you can no more legislate a sexual preference than Christianity. And it is the constitutional protected right of an American Citizen to obey His or her moral stands. One does not trump the other. That to is a perversion of Liberal progressives .
They like to attack those who have a different opinion then they do. Also most Liberal progressives are hypocrites. They want to force their moral standard on the majority . it would be a sad day for them when those who profess to be Christians stood for What God says about atopic over ones own desire.
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