ARE THERE APOSTLES OF CHRIST TODAY?

[garee]

I should add this:

I believe in the continuing ministry of the apostles and prophets THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES.

But, there are no living apostles in the sense of Apostles of Christ.

I acknowledge that a church planter or a missionary might use the label "apostle" with a small "a" but if they are claiming to be an apostle of Christ, and that Christ personally appointed them to be an apostle, they are in error.

Ephesians 2:20 [SUP]20 [/SUP]built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

The foundation is the foundation...stones have been added to God's temple. We don't go back and build the foundation.

As I have said, every alleged apostle and prophet I've seen has been full of vanity and self-importance, including the cult leader. One even calls his wife an Apostle, and we know there are no female Apostles.

That is one of the difficulties today .Men violating the law which prevents them from adding a new and different meaning to word, singular, destroying the intent of the author by adding to it diminishing from its intent .

Two warnings one ( Deuteronomy 4 and Revelation 22) In respect a word singular(Deuteronomy 4 ) and at the end of the Revelation the last book having to do with adding to the whole or complete .( Revelation 22) Both working as one law of interpretation.


Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you. Ye shall not add unto the word (singular)which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it,(singular) that ye may keep the commandments(plural) of the LORD your God which I command you.Deu 4:1

The word apostle with no other meaning added simply mean “sent one” or “sent ones”. God sent the apostle/prophet Deborah the Bee, because Barack needed a mother figure to comfort him .

Prophet and apostles are not limited to men. How beautiful were the feet of Deborah (the prophet/apostle)

And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go.And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.Jud 4:8

God to show He is not served by human hands/will can send an Ass a unclean animal used to typify natural unconverted man in need of being redeemed by the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. Again to show God is not served by hands as a will.

And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem. Exodus 13:13

And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee. Num 22:27

In the truest sense of the word being defined, Balaam’s ass was a apostle /prophets .Again it’s not the beautiful feet but the words that God puts upon the lips that make up the gospel .

 

[stonesoffire]

One side note on Peter, you know it is amazing how when Christ was alive, and Christ plainly told Peter and the other disciples that whosoever shall deny me before Men, I shall deny him before my Father. And even Christ warned Peter that before the cock crew, he would have denied Him thrice. And when it came time, Peter not only denied Christ three different times, but he cursed doing it, and it amazes me how Christ turned at looked at Peter dead in the eye, and Peter knew it immediately. But I don't think Christ looked on him with anger, I believe He looked on him with love and forgiveness, and as it turns out, the foundation of Christ was still founded on Peter as the rock

This is about the "firstling" in the OT to come from the womb. If you can see it.

Exodus 13:12

"That thou shalt set apart H5674  unto the LORD H3068  all H3605  that openeth H6363  the matrix, H7358  and every H3605  firstling H6363  that cometh H7698  of a beast H929  which H834  thou hast; H1961  the males H2145  shall bethe LORD'S. H3068 "

firstling:




[h=1]H6363[/h]

פִּטְרָה פֶּטֶר​

peṭer piṭrâh
peh'-ter, pit-raw'
From H6362; a fissure, that is, (concretely) firstling (as opening the matrix): - firstling, openeth, such as open.
Total KJV occurrences: 12

Peter declares Jesus to be the Son of God. Jesus declares Peter the firstling of the spiritual womb of the new birth. Petra..Peter.

 

[garee]

Be reasonable. If there were apostles today of the sort that is spoken of in the New Testament do you really think we would be pondering the question?

They did not rise up above that which was written.and glory in their own flesh as if they like us did not receive what God freely gave them .

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us "not to think of men above that which is written", that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?1Co 4:6

There were times in unbelief (no faith) that they did play "who is the greatest" But then Christ would simply rebuke them for the wrong manner of spirit ( no faith .)

But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be "greatest".Luk 9:45- 46


Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

 

[garee]

This is about the "firstling" in the OT to come from the womb. If you can see it.

Exodus 13:12

"That thou shalt set apart H5674  unto the LORD H3068  all H3605  that openeth H6363  the matrix, H7358  and every H3605  firstling H6363  that cometh H7698  of a beast H929  which H834  thou hast; H1961  the males H2145  shall bethe LORD'S. H3068 "

firstling:




H6363

פִּטְרָה פֶּטֶר​

peṭer piṭrâh
peh'-ter, pit-raw'
From H6362; a fissure, that is, (concretely) firstling (as opening the matrix): - firstling, openeth, such as open.
Total KJV occurrences: 12

Peter declares Jesus to be the Son of God. Jesus declares Peter the firstling of the spiritual womb of the new birth. Petra..Peter.

Peter the greatest denier is used to typify all the lively stones that make up the spiritual unseen house of God, the church as His chaste virgin wife coming down on the last day prepared as His eternal bride the church. The church is made up of more than one lively stone.

To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.1Pe 2:4

 

[oldethennew]

who needs a 'name' in order to qualify for Loving their Saviour and serving Him
as He leads them in their daily ministry???

 

[DJ2]

They did not rise up above that which was written.and glory in their own flesh as if they like us did not receive what God freely gave them .

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us "not to think of men above that which is written", that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?1Co 4:6

There were times in unbelief (no faith) that they did play "who is the greatest" But then Christ would simply rebuke them for the wrong manner of spirit ( no faith .)

But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be "greatest".Luk 9:45- 46


Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

I would love to respond but 7 demonstrative pronouns within 59 words? I am lost.

 

[garee]

I am not much a writer in that way. My grammar skills surely suffer. I should of paid attention in school before I dropped out. .

Perhaps rather than using the word “they” the word apostles might make it easier to understand the point I was trying to make.


They (the apostles) did not rise up above that which was written. And glory in their own flesh as if they like us did not receive what God freely gave them .

There were times in unbelief (no faith) that they(apostles) did play "who is the greatest" But then Christ would simply rebuke them for the wrong manner of spirit ( no faith .)

How did you find 7?

 

[Angela53510]

I would love to respond but 7 demonstrative pronouns within 59 words? I am lost.

Calling you on this nonsense! In fact there are NO demonstrative pronouns in what garee wrote! Do you even know what a demonstrative pronoun is? Of course you don’t! You are a poser, and this (demonstrative pronoun) is just more evidence!

Here is a definition! You could have easily googled this before you made a fool of yourself!

“A demonstrative pronoun is a pronounthat is used to point to something specific within a sentence. These pronouns can indicate items in space or time, and they can be either singular or plural.
When used to represent a thing or things, demonstrative pronouns can be either near or far in distance or time:

• Near in time or distance: this, these
• Far in time or distance: that, those”

That’s it! Four words!

 

[OneFaith]

Not on the earth.

 

[posthuman]

Twelve, with Judas excluded and Paul included. There are only 12 apostles of the Lamb, who will sit on 12 thrones, ruling the 12 tribes of Israel.

BTW the number 13 has evil connotations in Scripture. See Bullinger's book on numbers in the Bible.

if you count Levi, there are 13 tribes. there were 13 at the last supper.

Then Jesus replied,
"Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!"
(John 6:70)​

let Him exclude and include what He will include, and what He will exclude. there are 13 tribes, and 12 with an inheritance, and the inheritance of the 13[SUP]th[/SUP] is the service of God. if He put it in His Word, shall it not be found in His Word?

 

[JaumeJ]

There are only Twelve Apostles after whom the Twelve Foundations of the New Jerusalem are to be named.

As for people sent out by God, an apostle, there have been many and probably are many today, but those Men to b Wondered At were only Twelve........

 

[Nehemiah6]

..let Him exclude and include what He will include, and what He will exclude. there are 13 tribes, and 12 with an inheritance, and the inheritance of the 13[SUP]th[/SUP] is the service of God. if He put it in His Word, shall it not be found in His Word?

Whatever may be the status of the 13th tribe, God tells us over and over again that there are 12 tribes, while He includes and excludes as He pleases. So you just contradicted yourself.

The book of Revelation is very pertinent to this, since it gives us 12 foundations for the wall of the New Jerusalem, with the names of the 12 apostles written in those foundations. But it also give us only the 12 tribes of Israel which God sees as representative of Israel:

And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. (Rev 7:4).

Here Manasseh replaces Dan (who was mentioned in Genesis), but in Ezekiel, both Dan and Manasseh are listed, but Levi is not shown as a tribe, but as "the Levites" who are given a portion of the land as an "oblation". So there are always 12 "tribes".

 

[Jackson123]

1 corinthians 12

28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

look like there are apostle in the church

 

[Nehemiah6]

1 corinthians 12

28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret?31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

look like there are apostle in the church

At the time Paul was writing this, very true. After the end of the Apostolic Age (first century), Scripture represents the apostles and prophets. And since Scripture is Divine revelation, you can trust the Bible totally.

 

[dalconn]

I haven't met any except for the ones who are self proclaiming apostles...I guess we just have to judge a tree by its fruit

 

[Nehemiah6]

I haven't met any except for the ones who are self proclaiming apostles...I guess we just have to judge a tree by its fruit

A Charismatic -- J. Lee Grady -- wants a Charismatic Reformation. But he will not give up the idea that there are apostles and prophets walking around today:

In honor of Reformation Day, I’m offering my own list of needed reforms in our movement. And since I can’t hammer these on the Wittenberg door, I’ll post them online. Feel free to nail them everywhere.

1. Let’s reform our theology. The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. He is God and He is holy. He is not an “it.” He is not a blob, a force, or an innate power. We must stop manipulating Him, commanding Him and throwing Him around.

2. Let’s return to the Bible. The Word of God is the foundation for the Christian experience. Any dramatic experience, no matter how spiritual it seems, must be tested by the Word and the Holy Spirit’s discernment. Visions, dreams, prophecies and encounters with angels must be in line with Scripture. If we don’t test them we could end up spreading deception.

3. It’s time for personal responsibility. We charismatics must stop blaming everything on demons. People are usually the problem.

4. Stop playing games. Spiritual warfare is a reality, but we are not going to win the world to Jesus just by shouting at demonic principalities. We must pray, preach and persevere to see ultimate victory.

5. Stop the foolishness. People who hit, slap or push others during prayer should be asked to sit down until they learn gentleness is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

6. End all spiritual extortion now. Christian television ministries must cease and desist from all manipulative fundraising tactics. We must stop giving platforms to ministers who make outlandish claims of supernatural financial returns, especially when Scripture is twisted, deadlines are imposed and the poor are exploited.

7. No more Lone Rangers. Those who claim to be ministers of God—whether they are traveling evangelists, local pastors or heads of ministries—must be accountable to other leaders. Any who refuse to submit their lives to godly discipline should be corrected.

8. Expose the creeps. Churches should start doing background checks on traveling ministers. Preachers who have been hiding criminal records, lying about their past marriages, preying on women or refusing to pay child support should be exposed as charlatans and shunned if they do not repent.

9. Stop faking the anointing. God is God, and He does not need our “help” to manifest Himself. That means we don’t sprinkle glitter on ourselves to suggest God’s glory is with us, hide fake jewels on the floor to prove we are anointed or pull chicken feathers out of our sleeves to pretend angels are in the room. This is lying to the Holy Spirit.

10. Let’s return to purity. We’ve had enough scandals. The charismatic church must develop a system for the restoration of fallen ministers. Those who fall morally can be restored, but they must be willing to submit to a process of healing rather than rushing immediately back into the pulpit.

11. We need humility. Ministers who demand celebrity treatment, require lavish salaries, insist on titles or exhibit aloofness from others are guilty of spiritual pride.

12. No more big shots. Apostles are the bondslaves of Christ, and should be the most impeccable models of humility. True apostles do not wield top-down, hierarchical authority over the church. They serve the church from the bottom up as true servants.

13. Never promote gifts at the expense of character. Those who operate in prophecy, healing and miracles must also exhibit the fruit of the Spirit. And while we continue to encourage the gift of tongues, let’s make sure we don’t treat it like some kind of badge of superiority. The world needs to see our love, not our glossolalia.

14. Hold the prophets accountable. Those who refuse to take responsibility for inaccurate statements should not be given platforms. And “prophets” who live immoral lives don’t deserve a public voice.

15. Let’s make the main thing the main thing. The purpose of the Holy Spirit’s anointing is to empower us to reach others. We are at a crossroads today: Either we continue off-course, entertained by our charismatic sideshows, or we throw ourselves into evangelism, church planting, missions, discipleship, and compassionate ministry that helps the poor and fights injustice. Churches that embrace this New Reformation will focus on God’s priorities.

J. Lee Grady is contributing editor of Charisma. You can follow him on Twitter at leegrady. He expounds on these topics in his 2010 book The Holy Spirit Is Not for Sale.

https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/32228-its-past-time-for-a-charismatic-reformation

 

[celib]

Note that I'm not real fond of referring to the early church fathers, but in this case, the author is using them for ADDITIONAL support, and not a primary support.

An apostle simply mean a messenger of Gods word, not mans word and yes there are real apostles today, you will judge them by there fruits, here is one that teaches Gods word, watch this video. God bless

Matthew 24 - Mark 13 - End of Time Ican Seeclearly • 8K views

 

[Nehemiah6]

An apostle simply mean a messenger of Gods word...

Well if we wish to simply go by the lexical meaning of the word that would suffice. But in view of what is revealed in the New Testament about the 12 apostles of Christ, that word means much more that "messenger". And that is what we are discussing. The 12 apostles are unique, and there are no more apostles. Those making such claims today are pretenders.

2. Specially applied to the twelve disciples whom Christ selected, out of the multitude of his adherents, to be his constant companions and the heralds to proclaim to men the kingdom of God: Matthew 10:1-4;Luke 6:13; Acts 1:26; Revelation 21:14, and often, but nowhere in the Gospel and Epistles of John; ("the word ἀπόστολος occurs 79 times in the N. T., and of these 68 instances are in St. Luke and St. Paul. Lightfoot). With these apostles Paul claimed equality, because through a heavenly intervention he had been appointed by the ascended Christ himself to preach the gospel among the Gentiles, and owed his knowledge of the way of salvation not to man's instruction but to direct revelation from Christ himself, and moreover had evinced his apostolic qualifications by many signal proofs: (Thayer's Lexicon).

 

[posthuman]

Whatever may be the status of the 13th tribe, God tells us over and over again that there are 12 tribes, while He includes and excludes as He pleases. So you just contradicted yourself.

The book of Revelation is very pertinent to this, since it gives us 12 foundations for the wall of the New Jerusalem, with the names of the 12 apostles written in those foundations. But it also give us only the 12 tribes of Israel which God sees as representative of Israel:

And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. (Rev 7:4).

Here Manasseh replaces Dan (who was mentioned in Genesis), but in Ezekiel, both Dan and Manasseh are listed, but Levi is not shown as a tribe, but as "the Levites" who are given a portion of the land as an "oblation". So there are always 12 "tribes".

has God contradicted Himself?

• Reuben
• Simeon
• Levi
• Judah
• Dan
• Naphtali
• Gad
• Asher
• Issachar
• Zebulun
• Joseph
• Manasseh
• Ephraim
• Benjamin
  

which are called the twelve depends on context, and it always has purpose.
what's the context of Revelation 7? why is that list of 12, from the set of 14, given in Rev. 7, in exactly the order it is given?

 

[posthuman]

the 12 tribes of Israel which God sees as representative of Israel

does God change?

the list of tribes in Revelation 7 is unlike any other list of the tribes anywhere else in scripture!

it is amazing! can you tell me why it is given in exactly this context in exactly this order with exactly these 12?

who can tell me?!