ANTI HOLIDAY FANATICS, HISLOPITES AND CULTISTS

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Feb 1, 2014
733
33
0
#1
I'd like to recommend the following site if you are concerned about anti-holiday propaganda:

Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Association

Ralph Woodrow used to teach that Christmas observance was anti-Christian and reflected paganism. His books were common fare for cultists, such as the group I belonged to.

Now, I have no issue with a believer who conscientiously declines to observe Christmas or Easter because he has conscience issues, and Romans 14 gives liberality for differences of opinion in this area. However, I am vehemently opposed to cultic organizations who use the holidays issue to gain credibility for their own organization.

The common spiel is that Christianity is contaminated with paganism, and Christians are deceived into believing it. The group who makes such claims commonly associates themselves with the true faith, and tries to use the holidays issue as a wedge to convince potential converts.

Organizations which use Christmas and/or Easter in this manner include the Armstrongites (Restored Church of God, United Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, Living Church of God, Church of God - International), Hebrew Roots Movement (which was influenced by Herbert Armstrong, the founder of Armstrongism) and some Messianic Jews, and Jehovah's Witnesses.

One should realize that Armstrong's theology was affected by Jewish myths as well as the writings of Alexander Hislop, author of "Two Babylons". Space and time don't permit covering either topic very well. Scripture warns us concerning listening to Jewish myths, though, and Alexander Hislop has been academically discredited for misquoting his sources, using poor reasoning, and historical blunders. For instance, he claims that Nimrod and Semiramis lived in the same time period, and were a married couple. This is wrong...they likely lived in different centuries; hundreds of years apart.

Armstrong's belief system had a direct impact on Hebrew Roots people. Their theology is a collision of three different groups: Armstrongism, Messianic Judaism and Sacred Name Movement. If anyone doubts this, look up Dean Wheelock, who is a leader in the Hebrew Roots Movement...he is a former Armstrongite and still believes most of Armstrong's theology (he was a member of Church of God - International). Additionally, William Dankenbring is a former Armstrongite..another leader in the movement.

Regarding Ralph Woodrow, I would read his book, "Christmas-Revisited", to see why Ralph rejected his former anti-Christmas beliefs. Additionally check out his booklet "The Babylon Connection?" for remarks concerning Alexander Hislop and why he rejects Hislopite beliefs now.

If you are approached by an anti-holiday person, I suggest asking them if they believe in the deity of Christ and the Trinity as well. So many individuals involved in the anti-holiday movement reject the Trinity and the deity of Christ. Often, the belief systems of such individuals is identical with one of the cultic groups above, and rejection of the Trinity and deity of Christ is part and parcel with the mentality of most cults.

The arguments used by anti-holiday people are often comical. For instance, the claim is commonly made that Jeremiah 10 is talking about a Christmas tree. Read Jeremiah 10 carefully to see that it is talking about an idol carved out of wood with clothing on it, and Jeremiah mocks its worshipers because the idol cannot talk. Yet, in the reasoning process of anti-holiday people, they will vehemently declare Jeremiah 10 to be speaking about Christmas trees.

Read it and prove me wrong :) I challenge ANYONE to read Jeremiah 10 and defend the view that what's being discussed is a Christmas tree rather than an idol carved by a man. And, if someone responds to this challenge, I suggest that you go read the chapter yourself and see if he is omitting verses from the context. There's no mistake on this.

Cultists will do that, though..they quote only selected verses to prove their point..this is academic dishonesty. They create a little rabbit trail to "prove" their doctrines without showing you all the verses around them. Or, they define the context for you so that their view seems reasonable, but their context is a false one that cannot be supported. That's the type of manipulation that is needed to build cultic movements.

By the way, I believed this stuff as a young believer too. I have graduated past the slow learners' class. I hope some of you do, too. Realize that cultists twist Scriptures and make claims that reflect their level of biblical comprehension. Realize, as well, that many of them deny ESSENTIAL core doctrines of Christianity like the deity of Christ and the Trinity, and make other outlandish claims. For example, the Armstrongites claim they will be fully God, just like God the Father and Jesus Christ, in the resurrection. Jehovah's Witnesses deny the full deity of Jesus Christ. They strain at gnats while swallowing camels, just like one would expect of the carnal mind..seeking to make trouble for Christians.

Armstrongites claim everyone else is spiritually blinded, and can't understand the truth, therefore they view Christians as being blind followers of tradition, which is a similar mentality that many in the Hebrew Roots Movement has concerning Christianity.

Anyways, have a great Christmas this year. I may not even check back on this thread, so if I don't answer, that is why. I know the typical responses that follow from calling out cultists on their false teachings.

Also, look at the linked previous posts I've made...I'm sure some will show up because I have discussed this in the past.

I highly suggest getting Ralph's books on this topic. Like I said, he used to be the authority figure for cults seeking to propagate these errors...second only to Alexander Hislop and his "Two Babylons" book.

Have a great Christmas all :)
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,940
113
#2
Thanks for the link. Can you post a few excerpts from it?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#3
Good and timely post Sparkman!
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#4
I'd like to recommend the following site if you are concerned about anti-holiday propaganda:

Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Association

Ralph Woodrow used to teach that Christmas observance was anti-Christian and reflected paganism. His books were common fare for cultists, such as the group I belonged to.

Now, I have no issue with a believer who conscientiously declines to observe Christmas or Easter because he has conscience issues, and Romans 14 gives liberality for differences of opinion in this area. However, I am vehemently opposed to cultic organizations who use the holidays issue to gain credibility for their own organization.

The common spiel is that Christianity is contaminated with paganism, and Christians are deceived into believing it. The group who makes such claims commonly associates themselves with the true faith, and tries to use the holidays issue as a wedge to convince potential converts.

Organizations which use Christmas and/or Easter in this manner include the Armstrongites (Restored Church of God, United Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, Living Church of God, Church of God - International), Hebrew Roots Movement (which was influenced by Herbert Armstrong, the founder of Armstrongism) and some Messianic Jews, and Jehovah's Witnesses.

One should realize that Armstrong's theology was affected by Jewish myths as well as the writings of Alexander Hislop, author of "Two Babylons". Space and time don't permit covering either topic very well. Scripture warns us concerning listening to Jewish myths, though, and Alexander Hislop has been academically discredited for misquoting his sources, using poor reasoning, and historical blunders. For instance, he claims that Nimrod and Semiramis lived in the same time period, and were a married couple. This is wrong...they likely lived in different centuries; hundreds of years apart.

Armstrong's belief system had a direct impact on Hebrew Roots people. Their theology is a collision of three different groups: Armstrongism, Messianic Judaism and Sacred Name Movement. If anyone doubts this, look up Dean Wheelock, who is a leader in the Hebrew Roots Movement...he is a former Armstrongite and still believes most of Armstrong's theology (he was a member of Church of God - International). Additionally, William Dankenbring is a former Armstrongite..another leader in the movement.

Regarding Ralph Woodrow, I would read his book, "Christmas-Revisited", to see why Ralph rejected his former anti-Christmas beliefs. Additionally check out his booklet "The Babylon Connection?" for remarks concerning Alexander Hislop and why he rejects Hislopite beliefs now.

If you are approached by an anti-holiday person, I suggest asking them if they believe in the deity of Christ and the Trinity as well. So many individuals involved in the anti-holiday movement reject the Trinity and the deity of Christ. Often, the belief systems of such individuals is identical with one of the cultic groups above, and rejection of the Trinity and deity of Christ is part and parcel with the mentality of most cults.

The arguments used by anti-holiday people are often comical. For instance, the claim is commonly made that Jeremiah 10 is talking about a Christmas tree. Read Jeremiah 10 carefully to see that it is talking about an idol carved out of wood with clothing on it, and Jeremiah mocks its worshipers because the idol cannot talk. Yet, in the reasoning process of anti-holiday people, they will vehemently declare Jeremiah 10 to be speaking about Christmas trees.

Read it and prove me wrong :) I challenge ANYONE to read Jeremiah 10 and defend the view that what's being discussed is a Christmas tree rather than an idol carved by a man. And, if someone responds to this challenge, I suggest that you go read the chapter yourself and see if he is omitting verses from the context. There's no mistake on this.

Cultists will do that, though..they quote only selected verses to prove their point..this is academic dishonesty. They create a little rabbit trail to "prove" their doctrines without showing you all the verses around them. Or, they define the context for you so that their view seems reasonable, but their context is a false one that cannot be supported. That's the type of manipulation that is needed to build cultic movements.

By the way, I believed this stuff as a young believer too. I have graduated past the slow learners' class. I hope some of you do, too. Realize that cultists twist Scriptures and make claims that reflect their level of biblical comprehension. Realize, as well, that many of them deny ESSENTIAL core doctrines of Christianity like the deity of Christ and the Trinity, and make other outlandish claims. For example, the Armstrongites claim they will be fully God, just like God the Father and Jesus Christ, in the resurrection. Jehovah's Witnesses deny the full deity of Jesus Christ. They strain at gnats while swallowing camels, just like one would expect of the carnal mind..seeking to make trouble for Christians.

Armstrongites claim everyone else is spiritually blinded, and can't understand the truth, therefore they view Christians as being blind followers of tradition, which is a similar mentality that many in the Hebrew Roots Movement has concerning Christianity.

Anyways, have a great Christmas this year. I may not even check back on this thread, so if I don't answer, that is why. I know the typical responses that follow from calling out cultists on their false teachings.

Also, look at the linked previous posts I've made...I'm sure some will show up because I have discussed this in the past.

I highly suggest getting Ralph's books on this topic. Like I said, he used to be the authority figure for cults seeking to propagate these errors...second only to Alexander Hislop and his "Two Babylons" book.

Have a great Christmas all :)


I largely agree with you. I am one of those who dislike Constantine's Paganization of the Church on purely academic grounds. The Reformers have done a great deal to free us from the cultism and idolatry of the Catholic church.

Those who observe Christmas do so with no conscious practice of pagan ritual.

Observance of Easter is another matter. Virtually all believers understand that painted eggs ans rabbits are fertility symbols that have no connection with Jesus' resurrection. The connection with the worship of a fertility goddess of whatever name is obvious. We are clearly told in the NT that we should influence the world without being influenced by it.
In this case conscious involvement in pagan ritual is undeniable.

If Christians observe Easter without eggs and bunnies and focus on Jesus resurrection I have far less problem with it.

As I said, my issue with paganization of the times of observance is probably of minor importance. Still knowing "THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME FOR THIS" bothers me but I can accept that it is a personal thing.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,764
113
#5
Let's face it. God gives Christians the liberty to observe days or NOT observe days. So neither those who observe or those who do not observe should be pointing fingers.

At the same time there is no denying:

1. That Christ was born in late September, not late December.

2. December 25th was indeed a pagan festival co-opted by the Roman Catholic church (along with a host of pagan ritles, rituals, and beliefs).

3. There is absolutely no evidence in Scripture indicating that Christians must celebrate the birth of Christ. Rather they are required to celebrate His death every week in the Lord's Supper.

4. Christmas can be put to good Gospel use by Christians, since the world is compelled to acknowledge that Christ was indeed born a King and worshiped as the Messiah by none other than Gentile wise men.

5. Genuine Christians do use this time to do good works and also to worship the Lord Jesus Christ, and to remember the grace of God in sending His only begotten Son into this sin-cursed world.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#6
Let's face it. God gives Christians the liberty to observe days or NOT observe days. So neither those who observe or those who do not observe should be pointing fingers.

At the same time there is no denying:

1. That Christ was born in late September, not late December.

2. December 25th was indeed a pagan festival co-opted by the Roman Catholic church (along with a host of pagan ritles, rituals, and beliefs).

3. There is absolutely no evidence in Scripture indicating that Christians must celebrate the birth of Christ. Rather they are required to celebrate His death every week in the Lord's Supper.

4. Christmas can be put to good Gospel use by Christians, since the world is compelled to acknowledge that Christ was indeed born a King and worshiped as the Messiah by none other than Gentile wise men.

5. Genuine Christians do use this time to do good works and also to worship the Lord Jesus Christ, and to remember the grace of God in sending His only begotten Son into this sin-cursed world.

We read in Zec chapter 14 that during the Millennium everyone will be required to observe Sukkot (Tabernacles).
This seems to indicate that God is pleased when we commemorate the Lord's birth. At that time everyone will have the timing right.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#7
I largely agree with you. I am one of those who dislike Constantine's Paganization of the Church on purely academic grounds. The Reformers have done a great deal to free us from the cultism and idolatry of the Catholic church.

Those who observe Christmas do so with no conscious practice of pagan ritual.

Observance of Easter is another matter. Virtually all believers understand that painted eggs ans rabbits are fertility symbols that have no connection with Jesus' resurrection. The connection with the worship of a fertility goddess of whatever name is obvious. We are clearly told in the NT that we should influence the world without being influenced by it.
In this case conscious involvement in pagan ritual is undeniable.

If Christians observe Easter without eggs and bunnies and focus on Jesus resurrection I have far less problem with it.

As I said, my issue with paganization of the times of observance is probably of minor importance. Still knowing "THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME FOR THIS" bothers me but I can accept that it is a personal thing.
Solomon.....that which ia crooked cannot be made straight
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
2,046
113
North Carolina
#8
The fact that anyone celebrates Christmas as the birth of Jesus Christ, should not be a problem for anyone. The date of celebration is not a problem; the miracle of the birth is what is the objective. The greatest gift ever given to the lost world was the gift of Jesus Christ.

As for Santa and all the rest of it, the idea is about "giving" and that is what I taught my children; not about receiving, receiving, receiving.

The meaning of Christmas and Easter is the be taught to our children and that responsibility is up to every parent.
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
28
#9
MarcR,
re: "We read in Zec chapter 14 that during the Millennium everyone will be required to observe Sukkot (Tabernacles). This seems to indicate that God is pleased when we commemorate the Lord's birth.


How does Tabernacles relate to the Messiah's birth?
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
28
#10
Nehemiah6,

re: "Rather they are required to celebrate His death every week in the Lord's Supper."

What scripture do you use to make that assertion?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#11
MarcR,
re: "We read in Zec chapter 14 that during the Millennium everyone will be required to observe Sukkot (Tabernacles). This seems to indicate that God is pleased when we commemorate the Lord's birth.


How does Tabernacles relate to the Messiah's birth?

The Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We observed His glory, the glory as the One and Only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#12
We read in Zec chapter 14 that during the Millennium everyone will be required to observe Sukkot (Tabernacles).
This seems to indicate that God is pleased when we commemorate the Lord's birth. At that time everyone will have the timing right.
=============================================

you are obviously well read on this particular subject...please keep up sharing/upholding
what Christ has put upon your heart...we so appreciate those who have the courage
to keep-on resisting the temptations of this evil world...

un-like those who have left their 'first-Love', in order to 'rejoin/partake of satan's-worldly-scams';
you seem to be quite committed to many of the Truths that have been revealed to you by
The Word of God...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,247
25,717
113
#13
MarcR,
re: "We read in Zec chapter 14 that during the Millennium everyone will be required to observe Sukkot (Tabernacles). This seems to indicate that God is pleased when we commemorate the Lord's birth.


How does Tabernacles relate to the Messiah's birth?
Just curious: are you unable to use the "Reply With Quote" option?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#14
Don't be stepping in his slop....:p
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#15
probably not, Magenta,

please show him this kindness, you are very good at educating us non-computer-non-nerds...:)
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#16
Don't be stepping in his slop....:p
====================================
we pray that you are not talking about Marc, lo, but, if you are, 'shame on you'...
if you aren't, then all is well and good'...
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
28
#19
Magenta,
re: "Thank you for answering."

You're welcome.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,764
113
#20
We read in Zec chapter 14 that during the Millennium everyone will be required to observe Sukkot (Tabernacles).
This seems to indicate that God is pleased when we commemorate the Lord's birth. At that time everyone will have the timing right.
We should qualify that "everyone" to mean "everyone on earth". The Church will not be on earth but in the New Jerusalem at that time. Christians will be given authority to rule as kings (and we do not have much detailed information on that), but their eternal home will always be the New Jerusalem. The earth will be for redeemed and restored Israel and the nations which are saved, before and after the New Heaven and the New Earth.