why would millennial kingdom not be literal?

[Ahwatukee]

Nevertheless he is restricted. Jesus bound him (Matth 12.28-29)

You need to include all of the details in the scripture Valiant. The scripture in Revelation says the following:

"And he seized the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he cast him into the Abyss, and shut and sealed it over him, so that he should not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed."

If Satan were restricted as the scripture describes, he would currently be locked up in the Abyss, which according to scripture is under the earth (Matt.11:23, Rev.9:1-2). It is interesting how you and others leave out pertinent information and just grab what you want to base your interpretation on.

Originally by snoozy:saints will rule the world once Jesus returns. "Valiant" where does it say so?

Here's where it says the church will rule with Christ Valiant:

"To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations—that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father."

The resurrected great tribulation saints, who will also be apart of the first resurrection, will also rule during that thousand years:

"Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

 

[TMS]

In 1 Thessalonians we see the description of Jesus descending from the clouds to take up His followers. “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout … and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord” (4:16, 17). This is the “rapture” … being physically and literally caught up to meet a visible Jesus waiting in the sky.

In John 14:2,3 Jesus says, “I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.” This tells us that He will take us to the mansions that He has prepared for us.

Then in Revelation 21, we read, “I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven” (v. 2, emphasis added). But Revelation 20 says that the righteous “lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years” (v. 4). So if New Jerusalem is where our mansions are, and it has not yet come down to earth by the time of Jesus’ second coming, where are we going to be during the 1,000 years? I believe this means we’re not going to be on the earth.

 

[TMS]

Another clue comes from Isa 24:1, where we get a picture of the conditions of the earth during this 1,000 years: “The LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down.” And Jer 4:23 explains, “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens … had no light.” Of course, this sounds like it’s right out of Gen 1:2, but if you keep reading: “I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled” (4:24, 25).

We can easily conclude that since the mountains are now gone, they must have been there before. But if there is any doubt, Jeremiah continues, “I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down” (V. 26). Now we have cities that are broken down, so this cannot be at the time of the garden of Eden or a pre-creation picture.

But what breaks it all down? The Bible says “the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.” This chapter also says that there is no life on earth at this time, and moreover, the slain of the Lord covers one end of the earth to the other. Furthermore, “They shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground” (Jer 25:33).

Not a nice place to reign with Christ???

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello TMS,

The question is when does the New Jerusalem come down out of Heaven from God?

The timing of when the new Jerusalem comes down out of heaven in relation to the order of end-time events, is easy to identify.


The wrath of God = Rev.6 thru 18

Jesus returns to the earth to end the age = Rev.19:11-21

The beast and the false prophet are capture = Rev.19:20

Satan is locked up and restricted in the Abyss = Rev.20:1-3

Millennial period = Rev.20:1-7

Satan thrown into the lake of fire = Rev.20:10

Great white throne judgment = Rev.20:11-15

New heaven, new earth new Jerusalem = Revelation chapters 21 & 22

According to Rev.20:11, at the same time that the great white throne judgment takes place, this present heaven and earth pass away and no place is found for them. In keeping with the chronological order of events, sometime after the great white throne judgment takes place John then records the following:

"Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband."

Therefore, it is not until after the thousand year reign of Christ and after the great white throne judgment which follows that we are introduced to the new heaven, new earth and the new Jerusalem.

Hope this was beneficial.

 

[MarcR]

Well, the word millennium (as a discrete time period) only occurs in one book of the Bible. If it was that important, it would appear in more places.

The other reason is that a lot of Revelation is symbolic. It is apocalyptic literature. It is not literal. (Except perhaps the first 3 chapters - strange how the people want it to be literal everywhere else, want the letters of the churches to be examples and apply them to the church today. When, they were written to specific churches in John's day.) I personally do think the first 3 chapters can also be symbolic, like saying, "That church down the street that folded was neither hot nor cold." You would immediately recognize that I was comparing that church to Laodicea. That church was not the literal first century Laodicea!

The problem is, some people think every word of the Bible is meant to be read literally, and it isn't! That is why Jesus talked in parables, because he wanted to obscure meanings. Some things are not meant to be known. Yet, people come into this forum all the time with detailed interpretations of the symbols in Revelation, and they say they take the Bible literally. In some circles, the word "metaphor" is seen as an evil, Bible twisting word. And yet, there are literal metaphors from start to finish in the Bible. Even the sacrifices of the OT were about a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross. And think of things like "the Lion of Judah" or "The Lamb of God." Those are metaphors! And we know and use them!

Anyway, millennium cannot possibly be literal, or it would not be isolated in one chapter. And taken in context with the rest of Apocalyptic and prophetic literature, it simply isn't not something that we should pull out and make a huge doctrine about.

Zech Chapter 14 doesn't mention the Millennium by name; but seems to speak of it.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello garee,

And I saw an angel (not literal)come down from heaven, having the key (not literal) of the bottomless pit (not literal)and a great chain(not literal)in his hand(not literal). And he laid hold on the dragon(not literal), that old serpent(not literal), which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand(not literal)years,
And cast him into the bottomless pit(not literal) and shut him up, and set a seal (not literal)upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand (not literal)years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones,(not literal)and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls (not literal)of them that were beheaded(not literal)for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast(not literal), neither his image(not literal), neither had received his mark(not literal)upon their foreheads(not literal), or in their hands(not literal); and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand (not literal)years.But the rest of the "dead"(not literal)lived not again until the thousand(not literal)years were finished. "This is the first resurrection."Rev 20:5

Your post here is exactly why you and others who hold to this type of thinking do not understand the book of Revelation.

All of those places within scripture that labeled "not literal" is by conjecture! On what basis are you concluding that these things as not being literal? By stamping them as non literal, you discard the truth and miss the true meaning. In actuality, you have flat out denied everything that the scripture is stating:

And I saw an angel (not literal)come down from heaven

There is nothing in the scripture above that infers that the angel is not a literal angel that will descend to seize the dragon.

having the key (not literal) of the bottomless pit (not literal)and a great chain(not literal)in his hand(not literal).

Whether the key is corporeal or non corporeal, the fact is that it is required to both open and close the Abyss. For in Rev.9:1, we saw that an angel opened the Abyss with that same key. For prior to that it was locked and those demonic beings where unable to come out of the Abyss until it was opened. Furthermore, the Abyss is also literal, being the same place that those demons collectively called "Legion" begged Jesus not to send them into, as revealed in Luke 8:30. The Abyss is also the place where the beast is currently restricted in, as revealed in Rev.9:1.

And he laid hold on the dragon(not literal), that old serpent(not literal), which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand(not literal)years,

The dragon is symbolic representing Satan as the scripture itself immediately reveals or are you also going to claim that Satan is not literal either?

The words 'thousand years" appear six times within Rev.20:1-7 and therefore should be interpreted as being literal since there is nothing in the scripture that would suggest otherwise.

Everything that God is revealing to us you have blatantly denied by spiritualizing everything.

The Lord rebuke you for distorting his word!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Because the Gospel is God's final word to man. IF there was a millennium it would be going backwards.

Now that is backward thinking at its best.

How could it possibly be going "backwards" to have the whole world existing in perfect peace, perfect righteousness, and perfect harmony with Christ literally ruling the nations with a rod of iron and no warfare or crime on earth?

No jihadists, no corrupt politicians and media networks mocking the public, no evildoers loitering around, no foolish globalists trying to enslave the world. Clean air, pure water, uncontaminated food, and genuine spiritual worship on earth.

 

[Snoozy]

this is what ive gotten so far:

its symbolic language

its mentioned only once

neither of these refute a literal earthly kingdom. many important things are mentioned only once no reason to discard them

symbolic means it represents something. garee u said not literal to everything then what does it all mean? what does it represent.

 

[MarcR]

this is what ive gotten so far:

its symbolic language

its mentioned only once

neither of these refute a literal earthly kingdom. many important things are mentioned only once no reason to discard them

symbolic means it represents something. garee u said not literal to everything then what does it all mean? what does it represent.

I believe that Scripture should be taken literally unless there is compelling reason to do otherwise.

"If thine eye offend thee pluck it out" gives such a compelling reason. God doesn't want us maiming ourselves.

The millennium gives no such compelling reason; and therefore should be taken literally.

 

[MattforJesus]

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

It is obvious that it is a literal reign of Christ on earth,and it states that it is on earth,for the LORD shall be king over all the earth,and in that day there shall be one LORD,and His name one,and the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD,which means nobody will recognize any religious figure,or false god,but only the LORD,and His ways shall be throughout the whole earth with no other ways.

When did that ever happen.

And also all the people that God spared when He fought the world have to go up year after year to Jerusalem to worship the LORD.

When did that ever happen.

And also animals will not fight with animals,or people,and be plant eaters,and be so tame that a child can lead the most ferocious animal that is known to mankind today,and that animal will have no desire to harm the child.

When did that ever happen.

And also the Bible says that Jesus shall rule with an iron rod,which means it is only Jesus' way on earth,and no other way,but when did that ever happen.

Also they say it is a spiritual reign for 1000 years,but Jesus said all power is given unto Him in heaven,and earth,so He has been reigning ever since He ascended to heaven which has been for nearly 2000 years,so why do they say for 1000 years,and also it is not only Jesus' way,and the world only recognizes Him,so the millennial reign is still to come,and it is on earth.

6 days God created all things,and on the 7th day He rested,so 6000 years of the history of people,and then 1000 years of peace on earth.

Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Also God will bring all of the Jews out of the nations,and leave none of them in the nations anymore,and put them on the land of Israel,and they shall know the LORD from that day and forward,and God will not hide His face from them anymore,which means Israel will be in the truth from that point and forward.

But we see this has not happened yet,for Israel as a nation does not acknowledge Jesus,so this is in the future when God turns Israel to the truth,and sets His glory among the heathen,which is the literal reign of Christ.

If this was a prophesy that happened in the past Israel would be in the truth right now,and none of the Jews would be left in the Gentile nations from that point forward.

But Israel as a nation is not in the truth as a nation,and there are Jews still in the Gentile nations,so this is a future prophesy,and Israel shall know the LORD from that day forward,when God puts down the world,and the kingdom on earth is restored to Israel,and the Gentiles shall know that Israel went in to captivity because they trespassed against the LORD,but He was with them the whole time.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Jer 46:27 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.

The millennial reign of Christ is in the future when God restores the kingdom on earth to the Jews,and all Gentile governments,and nations,do not operate,but only Israel will be the operating government,and nation,on earth,and Jesus and the saints rule over the Gentiles that God spared at the battle of Armageddon.

 

[birdie]

this is what ive gotten so far:

its symbolic language

its mentioned only once

neither of these refute a literal earthly kingdom. many important things are mentioned only once no reason to discard them

symbolic means it represents something. garee u said not literal to everything then what does it all mean? what does it represent.

Thanks for asking what the thousand years of Satan being bound represents. People read the statement that Satan is bound and imagine a world of pure bliss and no Satan. Rather, Satan is bound during this period with respect to belief for believers. That is why after he is loosed he goes to deceive. The 'thousand years 'time period is a time when the Holy Ghost is given to persons so that they may believe on the Lord Jesus unto salvation. What happens is Jesus comes to earth (And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.) and binds Satan by going to the cross and being resurrected and giving the Holy Spirit to believers. The Holy Spirit is the seal which is to prevent Satan from deceiving (And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled:). The thousand years is a figurative word describing the time that Satan cannot stop someone from believing unto salvation. That time is the church age. Remember how Jesus tells his believers during the church age that "Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." People of the church age have often thought of this as binding and loosing and as applying to the present time. It is speaking of how true believers loose people by the gospel to believe on Christ unto salvation. It is akin to the verse about whoevers sins you forgive shall be forgiven.

It is easy to see that after the church age comes the great tribulation period: "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive ".

 

[celib]

your so called millennium is purposeless. Christ reigns NOW and to introduce another Gospel is an insult to Him.

The purpose of the millennium is judgment day Rev.20:4, all those that never got the opportunity to accept Christ will get there chance during the millennium. God bless

 

[birdie]

The purpose of the millennium is judgment day Rev.20:4, all those that never got the opportunity to accept Christ will get there chance during the millennium. God bless

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

During the church age (the figurative thousand years) the true believers rule and reign with Christ, not in an earthly sense, but in a real sense: "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:" This is what Rev 20 is referring to when it talks of thrones.

Notice that Rev 20 says that during the church age true believers (called blessed and holy, meaning saved) come to life and reign with Christ. This is meaning that they were spiritually dead and then were born again to newness of life in Christ Jesus. Once a person is born again, the second death (which is the judgment of finally perishing, of not having eternal life in Christ) has no power.

 

[Ahwatukee]

During the church age (the figurative thousand years) the true believers rule and reign with Christ, not in an earthly sense, but in a real sense: "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:" This is what Rev 20 is referring to when it talks of thrones.

Your interpretation of the church age representing the thousand years and it being figurative, is only implied by you and has no validity. The church age is not figurative representing the thousand years. Neither is the thousand year reign of Christ figurative but is literal. We are currently still in the church age which ends when Jesus descends to gather the church just prior to the opening of the first seal, which initiates God's wrath. After God's wrath has completed the Lord will return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom with the church returning with him riding on white horses, as revealed in Rev.19:6-8, 14.

The millennial period will be a literal thousand years on this present earth with the church, in their immortal and glorified bodies, along with the great tribulation saints and the 144,000 who are sealed out of Israel, will all be ruling with Christ during that literal thousand years.

 

[trofimus]

The doctrine of literal millennium needs to:

a) connect specific OT prophecies with specific verses in Revelation.
- I do not think there is such connection

b) take symbols literally
- I do not think it works

c) return to old shadows (temple, Israel, animal sacrifices)
- this is antichristian

 

[dcontroversal]

where does it say He will rule ON EARTH? Bang goes your evidence.



Nevertheless he is restricted. Jesus bound him (Matth 12.28-29)



well I am lol eph 2.5-6



in their triumph over persecution among other ways



well get reigning then!



where does it say so?



the so called Gospel of the Kingdom (as opposed to the real Gospel of the Kingly Rule of God).

He will sit on the throne of David his father and rule with a rod of Iron.....David ruled over nothing in heaven, but rather an earthly physical throne..


He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David

 

[dcontroversal]

There are numerous references to it in the prophets...especially Isaiah....Jesus ruling with a rod of iron, the healing of the nations, a child dying accursed at 100, the command to come up once a hear or the rain js withheld, Jesus sitting on the throne of David, the waste cities of the planet being inhabitated and rebuilt, Satan bound for 1000 years and then loosed for a season etc....As a matter of fact there are so many references it would be idiotic to argue with any who reject it.....

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello Trofimus,

a) connect specific OT prophecies with specific verses in Revelation.

What would lead you to believe that in order for the millennium to be literal that it would have to connect with specific OT prophesies?

In 1 Cor.15:51-52 Paul introduces an event that was previously unknown to OT prophets, which is the gathering of the living church immediately following the resurrection of those who will have died in Christ. Suffice to say, you're not going to find a validation for that event anywhere in the OT.

In keeping with this theme of events being specific to Revelation, the word "apokalupsis" translated as "Revelation" is defined as an unveiling, uncovering, revealing, revelation. God's will previously unknown to the extent (because "veiled, covered").

Therefore, yours and others who claim that in order for the thousand years to be referring to a literal thousand years, that it has to be connected with OT prophesies, is false. Though the thousand years is specifically not mentioned in the OT by name, the characteristics of it are as follows:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

During the thousand years, the length of age will be similar to what it was prior to the flood when the people lived to be 800 and 900 years old.

Prey and predator animals and their young will lie down together, meaning that there will be no prey and predator animals during that time

A lion will eat straw like the Ox

A young child will be able to play near a Cobra's den or stick his hand into vipers nest and not be harmed at all.

b) take symbols literally - I do not think it works

You don't take symbols literally. You read the book of Revelation in the literal sense until you come to what is obviously symbolic and then you find out the literal meaning behind the symbolism.

c) return to old shadows (temple, Israel, animal sacrifices) -

this is antichristian

That is because it is not referring to Christianity, but the fulfillment of the seventy seven year periods that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem.

Sixty nine of those seventy sevens were fulfilled when the Messiah was cut off. At that time God put a hold or paused that last seven years with Israel and began to build his church. Once the church has been completed, then God will take up right where he left off with Israel fulfilling that last seven years which will be in conjunction with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.

Therefore, the return to "old shadows" is exactly what God is going to do regarding Israel in fulfillment of the decree of seventy sevens, complete with temple worship, sacrifices and offerings. Prior to this, the church will have been removed from the earth.

During that time God will also be pouring out his wrath in the form of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

 

[trofimus]

Hello Trofimus,



What would lead you to believe that in order for the millennium to be literal that it would have to connect with specific OT prophesies?

In 1 Cor.15:51-52 Paul introduces an event that was previously unknown to OT prophets, which is the gathering of the living church immediately following the resurrection of those who will have died in Christ. Suffice to say, you're not going to find a validation for that event anywhere in the OT.

In keeping with this theme of events being specific to Revelation, the word "apokalupsis" translated as "Revelation" is defined as an unveiling, uncovering, revealing, revelation. God's will previously unknown to the extent (because "veiled, covered").

Therefore, yours and others who claim that in order for the thousand years to be referring to a literal thousand years, that it has to be connected with OT prophesies, is false. Though the thousand years is specifically not mentioned in the OT by name, the characteristics of it are as follows:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

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During the thousand years, the length of age will be similar to what it was prior to the flood when the people lived to be 800 and 900 years old.

Prey and predator animals and their young will lie down together, meaning that there will be no prey and predator animals during that time

A lion will eat straw like the Ox

A young child will be able to play near a Cobra's den or stick his hand into vipers nest and not be harmed at all.



You don't take symbols literally. You read the book of Revelation in the literal sense until you come to what is obviously symbolic and then you find out the literal meaning behind the symbolism.



That is because it is not referring to Christianity, but the fulfillment of the seventy seven year periods that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem.

Sixty nine of those seventy sevens were fulfilled when the Messiah was cut off. At that time God put a hold or paused that last seven years with Israel and began to build his church. Once the church has been completed, then God will take up right where he left off with Israel fulfilling that last seven years which will be in conjunction with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.

Therefore, the return to "old shadows" is exactly what God is going to do regarding Israel in fulfillment of the decree of seventy sevens, complete with temple worship, sacrifices and offerings. Prior to this, the church will have been removed from the earth.

During that time God will also be pouring out his wrath in the form of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.


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1. You asked what would lead me to believe that in order for the millennium to be literal that it would have to connect with specific OT prophesies.

- and then you quoted a long text from Isaiah, making the connection between Isaiah' description and 1000 years in Revelation

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2. You said "You read the book of Revelation in the literal sense until..."

No, I do no not. I read the book of Revelation in a symbolic sense. Its the genre of the book.

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3. Christ is the fulfillment of OT shadows so there is no return back. Its already fulfilled. There is no need for animal sacrifices for 1000 years. Christ is the sacrifice.

OT is not about Israel or about Jews. OT is about Christ, it needs to be understood spiritually.

 

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He will sit on the throne of David his father and rule with a rod of Iron.....David ruled over nothing in heaven, but rather an earthly physical throne..


He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David

The new Jerusalem is not coming down until the 1000 years are finished and during the 1000 years the earth is void.
Jesus will rule the earth when it is recreated and made new (after the 1000 years), not while it is sinful and desolate or void.

Jer 4:23 explains, “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens … had no light.” Of course, this sounds like it’s right out of Gen 1:2, but if you keep reading: “I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled” (4:24, 25).

We can easily conclude that since the mountains are now gone, they must have been there before. But if there is any doubt, Jeremiah continues, “I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down” (V. 26). Now we have cities that are broken down, so this cannot be at the time of the garden of Eden or a pre-creation picture.

But what breaks it all down? The Bible says “the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.” This chapter also says that there is no life on earth at this time, and moreover, the slain of the Lord covers one end of the earth to the other. Furthermore, “They shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground” (Jer 25:33).
Well, it’s very simple. When Jesus comes down with power, the righteous, both the living and the dead, who are resurrected, are caught up with Him, and the sinful living are destroyed by the brightness of His coming. And as Revelation 20 says, “The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished” (v. 5).