The Lamb

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Aug 8, 2017
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#1
The LAMB was slain BEFORE the foundation of the world, but in all actuality it was slain ONLY in the mind of God and his word of PROPHECY that was yet to come. So in this way Jesus was BEFORE Abraham was born.

Revelation 13:8 teaches us that in God's PLAN of salvation his Son Jesus that was NOT YET BORN was SLAIN from the FOUNDATION of the world. So far BEFORE Abraham was ever born Jesus the MESSIAH WAS.



“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

10. If any man have an ear, let him HEAR.”



This is HOW Abraham SAW the DAY of Jesus. Also I highlight the would WAS above, because the original Greek words that are translated as I AM also mean I WAS. In other words, John 8:58 could just have easily been translated as follows:



“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I WAS.”



You see the Greek words translated as “I am” are “ego eimi”, where “ego” means I, my, and me. And the Greek word “eimi”, means was, am, it is, be, exist, and have been.

These SAME Greek words are used by Jesus and OTHERS to simple say “it is I”, “I was” and “I am”. It was the TRANSLATORS who made the choice as to which phrase to use. And some translators were so BIASED that they CAPITALIZED the “I AM” to sway readers to their OWN personal INTERPRETATION of God's word. The PARAPHRASED Message Bible goes way beyond the original text to produce a very BIAS translation ADDING "who I am" to the text to say,

"Believe me," said Jesus, "I am who I am long before Abraham was anything."

But just because some translation are BIAS does NOT mean that they are CORRECT. For you see in the very next chapter we read in John 9:9 where a blind man that was healed by Jesus is asked a question if he was the one whom Jesus healed and the blind man said “EGO EIMI” or I AM. Please keep in mind the the word “he”is not in the original Greek, but rather it us UNDERSTOOD just like it is understood in John 8:24, which we will look at in a moment.

Here is John 9:1-9 where the blind man that was healed says, “EGO EIMI”or “I AM”.

“And as Jesus passed by , he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3. Jesus answered, Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

4. I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night comes, when no man can work.

5. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

6. When he had thus spoken , he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,

7. And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

8. The neighbors therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged ?
9. Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am (EGO EIMI, which is that exact same Greek words that Jesus used when Jesus said before Abraham was I am) he.”
 
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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,247
25,716
113
#2
The Word was God, took on flesh, and walked among us.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,247
25,716
113
#4
The way the words you say are you, right?
The exact quote is from John chapter one verse one:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Verse fourteen, same chapter:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#5
I find your first paragraph concerning.
Could you further explain, if possible?

Do you believe Jesus existed only in Gods' mind but did not truly exist until His human birth?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#6
“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I WAS.”
So you are trying to REINTERPRET Scripture to accommodate your false belief that the Lamb is not GOD, and never was God? Correct?

However, it won't fly. Jesus said "If you believe not that I AM, you shall die in your sins". And every translation has "I AM", not "I was".

The Aramaic Bible in plain English goes even further to refute your false doctrine:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Yeshua said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.”

The World English Bible renders this correctly, and every translation should have actually done this:

World English Bible
Jesus said to them, "Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM."


It is high time to give up your false notions, and believe that Jesus is really and truly God.
 
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Aug 8, 2017
315
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#7
I find your first paragraph concerning.
Could you further explain, if possible?

Do you believe Jesus existed only in Gods' mind but did not truly exist until His human birth?
No that's not what I'm saying..
What i am saying is God already knew what would happen
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#8
So you are trying to REINTERPRET Scripture to accommodate your false belief that the Lamb is not GOD, and never was God? Correct?

However, it won't fly. Jesus said "If you believe not that I AM, you shall die in your sins". And every translation has "I AM", not "I was".

The Aramaic Bible in plain English goes even further to refute your false doctrine:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Yeshua said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.”

The World English Bible renders this correctly, and every translation should have actually done this:

World English Bible
Jesus said to them, "Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM."


It is high time to give up your false notions, and believe that Jesus is really and truly God.

If Jesus truly is the Word, come in flesh? Then, why Jesus' statement saying: "All authority Has Been GIVEN Me, in haven and earth?"

What would be the reason, for the "word that became flesh", to NEED to be GIVEN, ANYTHING?"
Unless, of course, John was doing a "condensed" version of from when the Word was/is GOD, (fast forward) to, that same GOD, being IN Christ, GAVE Jesus that authority.



 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#9
If Jesus truly is the Word, come in flesh? Then, why Jesus' statement saying: "All authority Has Been GIVEN Me, in haven and earth?"

What would be the reason, for the "word that became flesh", to NEED to be GIVEN, ANYTHING?"
Unless, of course, John was doing a "condensed" version of from when the Word was/is GOD, (fast forward) to, that same GOD, being IN Christ, GAVE Jesus that authority.
The WORD -- Jesus -- was always God. And we know that the WORD is also the Son of God. What many Christians fail to remember is that even though the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all equally God, they have different functions within the Godhead.

Thus the Father is the Head or Authority over the Son, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son (though some maintain that the Holy Spirit proceeded only from the Father). Here is the Scripture which clearly tells us that the Head of Christ is God.

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. [the Father] (1 Cor 11:3)

Therefore all authority was in the Father's hand, and He in turn gave it over to the Son (until the Son will return back everything to the Father).

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (1 Cor 15:24).

Also, since no man has seen God the Father at any time, it was necessary that the WORD become "flesh", and as long as Christ was on earth He was subject to the Father in all things. Hence "Not my will, but thine be done".

After His resurrection, all authority in Heaven and in earth was given to the Lord Jesus Christ, who will also be the Judge of all mankind. In all of this one fact remains unchanged -- Jesus is God the Son.
 
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Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#10
The Lamb of God, is God The Lamb, given as a gift beyond our comprehension,
for now...but many of us know it comes from an Holy Love that one day we
will understand...
 
Aug 8, 2017
315
4
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#11
When i started reading ur post (Nehemiah6) its like we start off on the same page then you throw a bomb like Jesus is God the Son...

There is ONE God so if you have to put that title on someone it would have to be the father.
THE ONE TRUE GOD
 
Aug 8, 2017
315
4
0
#12
Rev. 5:6
Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth. 7 He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb.

Two different beings.
The lamb did not take it out of his own hand
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,417
3,468
113
#13
Some people simply cannot accept that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.. God and Jesus are One...
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
1,449
218
63
#15
The LAMB was slain BEFORE the foundation of the world, but in all actuality it was slain ONLY in the mind of God and his word of PROPHECY that was yet to come. So in this way Jesus was BEFORE Abraham was born.


Y-shua is G-d in human flesh, so it is not in this way. He is BEFORE father Abraham.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#16
“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This is HOW Abraham SAW the DAY of Jesus. Also I highlight the would WAS above, because the original Greek words that are translated as I AM also mean I WAS. In other words, John 8:58 could just have easily been translated as follows:

“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I WAS.”

You see the Greek words translated as “I am” are “ego eimi”, where “ego” means I, my, and me. And the Greek word “eimi”, means was, am, it is, be, exist, and have been.

These SAME Greek words are used by Jesus and OTHERS to simple say “it is I”, “I was” and “I am”. It was the TRANSLATORS who made the choice as to which phrase to use. And some translators were so BIASED that they CAPITALIZED the “I AM” to sway readers to their OWN personal INTERPRETATION of God's word. The PARAPHRASED Message Bible goes way beyond the original text to produce a very BIAS translation ADDING "who I am" to the text to say,

"Believe me," said Jesus, "I am who I am long before Abraham was anything."

But just because some translation are BIAS does NOT mean that they are CORRECT. For you see in the very next chapter we read in John 9:9 where a blind man that was healed by Jesus is asked a question if he was the one whom Jesus healed and the blind man said “EGO EIMI” or I AM. Please keep in mind the the word “he”is not in the original Greek, but rather it us UNDERSTOOD just like it is understood in John 8:24, which we will look at in a moment.

Here is John 9:1-9 where the blind man that was healed says, “EGO EIMI”or “I AM”.

“And as Jesus passed by , he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3. Jesus answered, Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

4. I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night comes, when no man can work.

5. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

6. When he had thus spoken , he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,

7. And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

8. The neighbors therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged ?
9. Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am (EGO EIMI, which is that exact same Greek words that Jesus used when Jesus said before Abraham was I am) he.”
So you want us to believe you, where did you get your doctorate in konié Greek and where do you teach, so we can verify that you have the knowledge and degrees to make these types of statement that would be believable? Because the BAGD lexicon the standard for konié Greek disagrees with what you are saying as well as the Greek manuscripts.

You say the translaters capitalized "
ἐγὼ εἰμί" to influance the readers, but if we read the context of what Jesus is saying we see that they must of had an influance on the hears of His words as well. Verse 59 "So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple." They will pick up stones to stone Him before as well and again and the evangelist wrote it down the reason why they picked up stones, are in John 5:17-18 and 10:31-36, lets start with 5:17-18,

“But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.”

They wanted to kill Him because He is saying that God is His Father, which make Him equal with God the Father.

“The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?”

So if what you've said is true about the translaters, why are the Jews picking up stones to stone Jesus for blasphemy if Jesus is not saying I AM as the Lord God did in Exodus 3:14? Here's the Scripture, "
God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: I am has sent me to you.’”

The reaction of the Jews shows that Jesus was saying in His statement, I AM WHO I AM or that what He was saying should be interpreted like that, He never rebukes the Jews for mistakely thinking He was the Lord God Almighty. You also said that "egō eimi" could be translated "I was" or that Jesus was saying, "before Abraham was, I was." But the word for "was" is "
γενέσθαι" and the BAGD lexicon the standard for konié Greek says that it could be translated, "to be" no mention of it being translated, "was".

You go on to say that John 9:5 uses
"
ἐγὼ εἰμί" like it is used in John 8:58, so lets look at the Greek manuscripts of John 8:58 and 9:5. 8:58 "εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς, Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί." 9:5 "ὅταν ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ ὦ, φῶς εἰμι τοῦ κόσμου."

The word in blue is the word for "was" notice that "egō eimi" is not used in 9:5 only "eimi" is used and you want us to believe you that, I AM means, I was. How can we believe that you are translating it right if you do not even quote the Greek text accurately. Here is the link to the Greek manuscripts for anyone to view, to see if I misrepresented them.
https://www.academic-bible.com/en/online-bibles/greek-new-testament-ubs5/read-the-bible-text/bibel/text/lesen/stelle/53/90001/99999/ch/250aa101dbe473bd98b9205c028f37a8/


Lets move on to the Lamb slain before the foundations of the world. The reason this can be said is because Jesus is the eternal God, where we have our spirit from God as in Genesis 3:7 “then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.” This is how we get our spirit, Jesus' Spirit is God, the eternal God in man's flesh, fully human and fully God. Because Jesus is the eternal God He can pay for the sins past, present and future, if Jesus was a created being His death would of only paid for the sins of that day for himself. But since He is eternal God His death can pay for sins past, present and future and since He is the eternal God the expirence of His death was done eternally because His Spirit expirenced it eternally. So because His death is now placed into eternity because of Him being eternal, He was slain before the foundations of the world, even though it was expirenced in time, it was expirenced eternally in Jesus' Spirit.

In the same way we were chosen/elect before the foundations of the world, because of the Father's definite plan and foreknowledge as revealed to us in Acts 2:23 "
this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God,
you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men."

The Father has a definite plan for the atoning work of Christ, just like He had it planned out for Jesus to be delievered up to wicked men, He also determined who would be the
recipient of that definate work of Christ. The Father did not leave the atonement to chance, it was all the Father's doing, not even one drop of Christ's blood was shed for any unforgiven sin, everyone that He shed His blood for will be saved. In that definate plan the Father did not lay one sin on Christ for a person that would be going to hell. In other words the Father was not unjust in the death of Chirst by place the judgement of sin(s) on Christ of people that would be in eternal judgement.


 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#17
Y-shua is G-d in human flesh, so it is not in this way. He is BEFORE father Abraham.
Yes, this was the paragraph that concerned me too, the one you responded to from the op. It seemed to be not understanding something vital - that Jesus existed BEFORE He came in human flesh. The world was created through Him so before man was made He existed. He existed with God in the beginning and He WAS God. And He came into the world He created and it did not recognize Him or who He was. Everything we see, including people, was all created through Jesus. There is only one Creator and that Creator is God. Jesus IS God. Every argument or debate we care to have or engage in is not as important as this one thing - WHO IS JESUS? Because to deny who He is is the spirit of Antichrist.
 
Aug 8, 2017
315
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#18
Yes he existed but had he been slain already or was he slain after he came to earth?
 
Jul 23, 2017
879
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#19
unitarian heresy?

these guys are messed up on so many doctrines... what are we gonna do with john 1:1-14?

watch michael brown and james white smoke these unitarian bums in this video:

[video=youtube;Yn-grOfPDi0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn-grOfPDi0[/video]
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#20
Yes he existed but had he been slain already or was he slain after he came to earth?
That is not what concerns me - God is outside of time and then He came in the flesh and subjected Himself to time.

What concerns me is that when someone says Jesus is God, you think they've thrown a bomb.

John says Jesus was God. He says: He was in the beginning with God and He WAS God.

So when someone says Jesus was God in human flesh, they are not throwing a bomb. But by you saying they should not say that is the throwing of the bomb.

Is this what a church taught you or is it what you have come to on your own?

This is not nastiness you are hearing from me. It is love and concern for you.