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Thread: What is the NEW covenant

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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo View Post
    If we keep the Law we are actually DISOBEYING God.
    2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."


    Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."


    Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


    Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


    1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"


    Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."


    Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"



    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo View Post
    O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ has been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received you the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are you so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh?

    Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Psalm 89:26-37, “...My covenant will stand fast withHim....My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips....”
    Hmm. so a lot of talk about the Abrahamic covenant, Davidic covenant, ewtc.... Yet those terms are nowhere is Scripture, so I ask what about YHWH's covenant? and if He knows the end from the beginning did He not know what was going to happen beforhand?
    Studyman likes this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
    17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
    18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
    19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
    20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
    21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
    22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
    23 ¶ It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
    24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
    25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
    26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
    27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
    28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

    The new covenant is the fulfillment of the old.

    For the cause of Christ
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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Hmm. so a lot of talk about the Abrahamic covenant, Davidic covenant, ewtc.... Yet those terms are nowhere is Scripture, so I ask what about YHWH's covenant? and if He knows the end from the beginning did He not know what was going to happen beforhand?

    So God did not make a covenant with Abraham. And he did not make a covenant With David?

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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    So God did not make a covenant with Abraham. And he did not make a covenant With David?

    I didnt say that. Are those avids covenant or YHWH? Is it Abrahams covenant of YHWH'?

    YHWH says it is HIS COVENANT:

    Psalm 89:26-37, “...My covenant will stand fast with Him....My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips....”

    and that it would stand fast with Messiah


    Did YHWH not make a covenant with Israyl and with every follower that follows Him?
    Studyman likes this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    I didnt say that. Are those avids covenant or YHWH? Is it Abrahams covenant of YHWH'?

    YHWH says it is HIS COVENANT:

    Psalm 89:26-37, “...My covenant will stand fast with Him....My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips....”

    and that it would stand fast with Messiah


    Did YHWH not make a covenant with Israyl and with every follower that follows Him?

    So YHWH did not make a covenant with Abraham or David?
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    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by AbigailZeke View Post
    Someone asked in this forum before why we don't see the miracles in the book of Acts anymore, I really think it's because of the religious bondages we've been under for hundreds of years.
    Who is this "we" you are talking about?

    Whose study are you using in the Covenants?

    We make this a mandatory study in our discipleship program. We are blessed to have a Messianic Jew, that teaches this class. She rocks.

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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    I didnt say that. Are those avids covenant or YHWH? Is it Abrahams covenant of YHWH'?

    YHWH says it is HIS COVENANT:

    Psalm 89:26-37, “...My covenant will stand fast with Him....My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips....”

    and that it would stand fast with Messiah


    Did YHWH not make a covenant with Israyl and with every follower that follows Him?
    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    So YHWH did not make a covenant with Abraham or David?
    I repeat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    I didnt say that.

    Did YHWH not make a covenant with Israyl and with every follower that follows Him?
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    So YHWH did not make a covenant with Abraham or David?
    Did YHWH make a covenant with you?
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by AbigailZeke View Post
    Yeah I see where you're coming from. I do think it's still needed because people the same problems from before are still here, like people are still suffering from diseases (terminal ones). But we've been hearing about testimonies of many people getting healed all over the world, so who knows it's already coming back or it's always been there and just we didn't hear of it? I don't know but yeah it's an interesting subject, it makes me wonder too.
    The Holy Spirit has never left or ceased his ministry ever. When people reduce the Holy Spirit down to a vapor that only convicts of sin, gives you fruit and seals you unto the day of redemption and that is it, then no miracles manifest.

    The Holy Spirit is the miracle maker and always has been and he proved it by working through Jesus and other people. Just because People do not hear the Holy Spirit or listen for him, does not mean he has ever stopped talking or leading people.

    The other mandatory class in our discipleship program is called How to be led by the Holy Spirit. This teaches people who the Holy Spirit is, what is his ministry is, how to grow in intimacy with him, and most important how to hear and obey him on their own.
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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by AbigailZeke View Post
    Gandalf, my brother, this guy is talking about something else. (Emphasis below)

    Even back in Moses' time, God already had (a picture of) Jesus paying for our sins, the sin offerings, burnt offerings, trespass offerings - it was NEVER our ability (or inability) to keep the law. It was the offerings that saved the Jews from judgement.

    Because if they did keep the law perfectly (the guy below is making the assumption that God gave us a new covenant because we are unable to keep the old covenant with God - we never were qualified to keep it in the first place), why then did they have to offer daily sacrifices still?
    The wilderness tabernacle itself is a type and shadow of Jesus Christ, just not the offerings.
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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Hmm. so a lot of talk about the Abrahamic covenant, Davidic covenant, ewtc.... Yet those terms are nowhere is Scripture, so I ask what about YHWH's covenant? and if He knows the end from the beginning did He not know what was going to happen beforhand?
    There ae 8 covenants in the Bible. They are not implied, they are in back and white and red all over.
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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Did YHWH make a covenant with you?
    Why are you being this way?

    You stated there was no abrahamic covenant and no davidic. I am asking you to back your claims.

    So will you please answer the question? did YHWH make a covenant with abraham and david or did he not?
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    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    I repeat...

    I repeat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Hmm. so a lot of talk about the Abrahamic covenant, Davidic covenant, ewtc.... Yet those terms are nowhere is Scripture, so I ask what about YHWH's covenant? and if He knows the end from the beginning did He not know what was going to happen beforhand?
    So Did God (YHWH) not make a covenant with abraham or David.
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Hmm. so a lot of talk about the Abrahamic covenant, Davidic covenant, ewtc.... Yet those terms are nowhere is Scripture, so I ask what about YHWH's covenant? and if He knows the end from the beginning did He not know what was going to happen beforhand?
    I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David?

    Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made, -- and to your (Abraham's) seed which is Christ. And this I say, that the COVENANT that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law which is 430 years after cannot disannul'' ?

    So we have both the Davidic covenant and the Abrahamic covenants (both YHWH's covenants), and the Law only temporary.

    God knows the end from the beginning. But that is because He plans it.

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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Why are you being this way?

    You stated there was no abrahamic covenant and no davidic. I am asking you to back your claims.

    So will you please answer the question? did YHWH make a covenant with abraham and david or did he not?
    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    I repeat.



    So Did God (YHWH) not make a covenant with abraham or David.
    No that is not what I said, maybe you misunderstood my intent.

    Im saying YHWH makes covenant with peoiple, Abraham, David, Etc. Theres are of YHWH not of man, I know they are commonly called avid covenant, Abraham covenant etc, my point is that they come from an eternal Creator and they are His. I am not saying they don't exist, I think by calling them Davids, Abrahams, etc we lost sifht when in Psalm 89 YHWH says His Covenant:

    Psalm 89:26-37, “...My covenant will stand fast with Him....My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips....”
    Studyman likes this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David?

    Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made, -- and to your (Abraham's) seed which is Christ. And this I say, that the COVENANT that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law which is 430 years after cannot disannul'' ?

    So we have both the Davidic covenant and the Abrahamic covenants (both YHWH's covenants), and the Law only temporary.

    God knows the end from the beginning. But that is because He plans it.
    This is more the weay I see it, YHWH makes agreement with man, according to His plan and will. and the Law that dissapears is the levite priest Law, murder is still a sin.

    Psalm 89:26-37, “...My covenant will stand fast with Him....My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips....”
    Last edited by Hizikyah; December 6th, 2017 at 01:02 PM.
    Studyman likes this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Can I get some commentary on what exactly this means:

    Psalm 89:26-37, “...My covenant will stand fast with Him....My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips....”

    My covenant (what covenant?)

    stand fast with Him (what does stand fast mean? and who is Him?)

    My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips (what are the consequences and results of this?)

    and if onw wants to a full break down of this passage, but mainly the questions above.


    Psalm 89:26-37, “He will call out to Me; ‘You are My Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of My salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast withHim. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky.”
    Studyman likes this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    No that is not what I said, maybe you misunderstood my intent.

    Im saying YHWH makes covenant with peoiple, Abraham, David, Etc. Theres are of YHWH not of man, I know they are commonly called avid covenant, Abraham covenant etc, my point is that they come from an eternal Creator and they are His. I am not saying they don't exist, I think by calling them Davids, Abrahams, etc we lost sifht when in Psalm 89 YHWH says His Covenant:

    Psalm 89:26-37, “...My covenant will stand fast with Him....My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips....”
    I think you are taking it to literally

    The abrahamic covenant is Gods covenant he made with abraham

    The davidic covenant is a covenant God made with David.

    No one said they did not come from an eternal creator.

    God has made many covenants. Many, God also made a covenant with Isreal (many call the Palestinian covenant) and with moses (mosaic)

    if we do not seperate the covenants, we will only get confused.

    in psalms 89 is God confirming his covenant with david, (vs 3 he tells us this, I have made a covenant with and sworn my covenant with David, his chosen) So we would have to look at the covenant God made with david to get context and properly interpret what it means.

    Going to the abrahamic or mosaic covenants to try to figure out what God meant in psalms 89 would be a mistake.


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    Default Re: What is the NEW covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Can I get some commentary on what exactly this means:

    Psalm 89:26-37, “...My covenant will stand fast with Him....My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips....”

    My covenant (what covenant?)

    stand fast with Him (what does stand fast mean? and who is Him?)

    My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips (what are the consequences and results of this?)

    and if onw wants to a full break down of this passage, but mainly the questions above.


    Psalm 89:26-37, “He will call out to Me; ‘You are My Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of My salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast withHim. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky.”
    It was answered in verse 3.

    Him, is david or more literally his seed (christ)

    The covenant is the covenant God Made with David

    stand fast with him means he will keep his covenant, He will not fail


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    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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