Has all already been fulfilled by Messiah?

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Has all already been fulfilled by Messiah?


  • Total voters
    20

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#81
Possibly I misunderstood you? My point is that the Covenant is and always was for all people that will follow YHWH, no matter ethnic background. Yes the Hebrews were chosen to be the vessel, but since the beginning all peoples were allowed in IF they followed YHWH as He said. That is what I was trying to show using those passages.

If they converted to Judaism yes, otherwise NO until the Gentiles were graffed onto the Vine. I believe MarcR and I had a discussion on this... The problem I see here is the Church and Israel are on two different sides of the fence. Even though the Gentiles may have inherited the covenants by the default because of the adoption practices of the Jewish Laws;

The Church "Body of Christ" are to be Raptured before Daniel's 70th week and Israel is scheduled to go through Daniel's 70th week (Jacob's troubles) until they realize that Jesus was and is their Messiah and Call out His Name.

Only 1/3 of their Population (the remnant) will all that lives through Jacob's Troubles and they live during the Millennium in Mortal Bodies while the Church are Kings and Priest in Heaven (the Bride of Jesus Christ)

Have a good one
Blade
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#82

If they converted to Judaism yes, otherwise NO until the Gentiles were graffed onto the Vine. I believe MarcR and I had a discussion on this... The problem I see here is the Church and Israel are on two different sides of the fence. Even though the Gentiles may have inherited the covenants by the default because of the adoption practices of the Jewish Laws;

The Church "Body of Christ" are to be Raptured before Daniel's 70th week and Israel is scheduled to go through Daniel's 70th week (Jacob's troubles) until they realize that Jesus was and is their Messiah and Call out His Name.

Only 1/3 of their Population (the remnant) will all that lives through Jacob's Troubles and they live during the Millennium in Mortal Bodies while the Church are Kings and Priest in Heaven (the Bride of Jesus Christ)

Have a good one
Blade
Except Judaisim is not of Scripture not the OT it is Talmud based, a non Biblical book.

YHWH says different than not until, He says from the beginning:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore cleanse out the old leaven, so that you are a new lump, as you are unleavened. For also Messiah our Passover was offered for us. So then let us observe the festival, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 12:37-40, “And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children. 38, And a *mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle. 39, And they baked unleavened cakes of the dough which they brought forth out of Egypt, for it was not leavened; because they were thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual. 40, Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The words “*mixed multitude” are words:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]H6154 - [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]עֶרֶב עֵרֶב [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]- ‛êreb ‛ereb, ay'-reb, eh'-reb, The second form used in 1 Kings 10:15 with the article prefixed); from H6148; the web (or transverse threads of cloth); also a mixture, (or mongrel race):—Arabia, mingled people, mixed (multitude)

to say Jews have to follow Laws and Gentiles don't would make the Most High a respector of persons and thus unfair, this is not so, as shown above.

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 15:24, “And He answering, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’yl.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."[/FONT]

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#83
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 111:5, “He has given food to those who fear Him; He remembers His covenant forever.”[/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#84
This has not yet been fulfilled:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh messenger sounded, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”[/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#85
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”[/FONT]

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This has not yet been fulfilled:

Daniyl 7:13-14, “I was looking in the night visions and saw One like the Son of Enosh, coming with the clouds of the heavens! And He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. And to Him was given rulership and preciousness and a reign, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His rule is an everlasting rule which shall not pass away, and His reign that which shall not be destroyed.”

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 24:44, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."[/FONT]

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#86
Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”

Luke 24:44, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."

This has not yet been fulfilled:
Joel 3:12-14, “Let the nations be aroused, and come up to the Valley of Yehoshaphat. For there I shall sit to judge all the nations on every side. Put in the sickle (Revelation 14:12-20), for the harvest has grown ripe. Come, go down, for the wine press is filled, the vats overflow, for their evil is great. Crowds, crowds in the valley of decision! For the day of יהוה is near in the valley of decision.”
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#87
Matthew 5:17-18
[FONT=&quot]17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Lord Jesus Christ says here that He came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Then in a separate statement He says that not one Jot or Tittle will fall from the law until it has served its entire purpose.

Hebrews 7:11-12
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[FONT=&quot]11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


Looks like some of those jots and tittles have fallen from the law. So what does that mean? The Lord Jesus must have been kidding? NO. It means the law has been fulfilled like He said it would be.

Time passed between Matthew 5 and Hebrews 7. There were some critical events that happened that showed the fulfillment of the law and the prophets.

Hebrews 7:18-19
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[FONT=&quot]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.[/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#88
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
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Matthew 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Lord Jesus Christ says here that He came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Then in a separate statement He says that not one Jot or Tittle will fall from the law until it has served its entire purpose.

Hebrews 7:11-12

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


Looks like some of those jots and tittles have fallen from the law. So what does that mean? The Lord Jesus must have been kidding? NO. It means the law has been fulfilled like He said it would be.

Time passed between Matthew 5 and Hebrews 7. There were some critical events that happened that showed the fulfillment of the law and the prophets.

Hebrews 7:18-19

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
THe Law has not changed, the priesthood has been changed, the Laws concerning the priesthood are now carrie out by Yahshua/Jesus:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:13, “For He of whom this is said belongs to another tribe, from which no one had attended at the Altar. For it is perfectly clear that our Master arose from Yehuḏah, a tribe about which Mosheh never spoke of concerning priesthood.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]changed” is word #G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis (me-ta'-the-sis) n., transposition, i.e. transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law). [from G3346], KJV: change, removing, translation, Root(s): G3346 [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis; 1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As in the priesthood on earth, Levites are abolished, and the priesthood in the heavens is established.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From G3346; transposition, that is, transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]change” is word #G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v., 1. to transfer., 2. (literally) to transport., 3. (by implication) to exchange., 4. (reflexively) to change sides. [from G3326 and G5087], KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn, Root(s): G3326, G5087[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; 1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other) 1a) to transfer 1b) to change 1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred 1c1) to go or pass over 1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:—carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As in the Law has been transferred, not mediated by Levites but mediated by Yahshua the High Priest:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:24-25,"but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to YHWH through Him, ever living to make intercession for them."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is YHWH; and One Mediator between YHWH and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Perfect Priest!;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 4:14-15, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of YHWH, let us hold fast our profession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are--yet was without sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation; Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:23-28, “For they indeed became priests without an oath, but He became Priest with an oath by Him who said to Him, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has sworn and shall not regret, ‘You are a priest forever according to the order of Malkitseḏeq. By as much as this [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has become a guarantor of a better covenant. And indeed, those that became priests were many, because they were prevented by death from continuing, but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to Yah through Him, ever living to make intercession for them. For it was fitting that we should have such a High Priest – kind, innocent, undefiled, having been separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens, who does not need, as those high priests, to offer up slaughter offerings day by day, first for His own sins and then for those of the people, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Torah appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath which came after the Torah, appoints the Son having been perfected forever.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For it was written long before it happened:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

The Messiah being High Priest does not make the Law vod, it makes it mediated through Yahshua rather than through the old way, the levites.

For there are still Scriptures to be fulfilled:

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 24:44-46, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me. Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it has been written, and so it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise again from the dead the third day.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 45:21-22, “Declare and bring near, let them even take counsel together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has declared it from that time? Is it not I, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]? And there is no mighty one besides Me, a righteous Power and Savior, there is none besides Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am Strength, and there is none else.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 46:10, “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from of old that which has not yet been done, saying, ‘My counsel does stand, and all My delight I do.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]There are 2 "it is done" statements...

Fulfilled already
John 19:30, “So when
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]took the sour wine He said, “It is done!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”

Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever

4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever


To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”
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ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
372
39
28
#89
Daniel's prophecies about the Jews in the latter days has not been fulfilled yet.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#90
Daniel's prophecies about the Jews in the latter days has not been fulfilled yet.
This is true;

Hosea 3:4-5, “For many days the children of Yisra’yl are to remain without sovereign and without prince, and without sacrifive, and without pillar, and without shoulder garment or house idols. Afterward the children of Yisra’yl shall return, and seek יהוה their Strength, and Dawiḏ their sovereign, and fear יהוה and His goodness, in the latter days.”

Zechariah 12:1-3, “The message of the word of יהוה against Yisra’yl. יהוה, stretching out the heavens, and laying the foundation of the earth, and forming the spirit of man within him, declares, See, I am making Yerushalayim a cup of reeling to all the people all around, and also against Yehuḏah it is in the siege against Yerushalayim. And in that day it shall be that I make Yerushalayim a very heavy stone for all peoples – all lifting it are severely injured. And all the nations of the earth shall be gathered against it.”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 16:15-17, “See, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who is staying awake and guarding his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame. And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Har Meḡiddo. And the seventh messenger poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the Dwelling Place of the heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!”[/FONT]

 
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ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
372
39
28
#91
And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face. Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God. And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant. And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn , and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord. Ezekiel 20:34-38

This prophecy looks forward beyond the regathering from Babylon to Israel's final regathering from her final worldwide Diaspora for Kingdom blessing. It concerns the purging out of rebels in the Great Tribulation, the time of Jacob's trouble. The Lord will make them pass under the rod as a shepherd makes his sheep pass under his rod in counting them and separating the sheep from the goats. Israel's great Shepherd will count His own for entrance into the Messianic Davidic earthly Kingdom by severe chastisement. He will cause His wandering sheep to submit themselves to the covenant to be His people made possible through the New Covenant ratified by the Messiah Lord Jesus' redemptive work. He will purge out rebels and transgressors uprooting them from the lands of exile, but not allowing them to ender the land of Israel, signifying that they wil be purged out in the judgements of the Great Tribulation and nit enter the Davidic-Messianic Kingdom.

And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled; and ye shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed. v.43 Eze.36:31 Jer.31:18

Israel will know the Lord in His wonderful redemptive grace and love.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#92
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hosea 1:1-11, "1:1, "The word of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]that came to Hoshĕa son of Be’ĕri, in the days of Uzziyah, Yotham, Aḥaz, and Yeḥizqiyah, sovereigns of Yehuḏah, and in the days of Yaroḇ‛am son of Yo’ash, sovereign of Yisra’yl."1:2, "The beginning of the word of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]with Hoshĕa. And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to Hoshĕa, “Go, take yourself a woman of whoring and children of whoring, for the land has utterly whored away from [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”"1:3, "So he went and took Gomer, daughter of Diḇlayim, and she conceived and bore him a son."1:4, "And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to him, “Call his name Yizre‛ĕl, for in a little while I shall revenge the bloodshed of Yizre‛ĕl on the house of Yĕhu, and put an end to the reign of the house of Yisra’yl."1:5, "“And it shall be in that day that I shall break the bow of Yisra’yl in the Valley of Yizre‛ĕl.”"1:6, "And she conceived again and bore a daughter. And He said to him, “Call her name Lo-Ruḥamah, for no longer do I have compassion on the house of Yisra’yl so as to forgive them at all."1:7, "“But I shall have compassion on the house of Yehuḏah and save them by [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]their Strength, and not save them by bow or by sword or battle, by horses or horsemen.”"1:8, "And she weaned Lo-Ruḥamah, and conceived and bore a son,"1:9, "then He said, “Call his name Lo-Ammi, for you are not My people, and I am not for you."1:10, "“Yet the number of the children of Yisra’yl shall be as the sand of the sea, which is not measured nor counted. And it shall be in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they shall be called, ‘You are the sons of the living Ěl.’"1:11, "“And the children of Yehuḏah and the children of Yisra’yl shall be gathered together, and appoint for themselves one head, and shall come up out of the earth, for great is the day of Yizre‛ĕl!"[/FONT]
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
372
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#93
You seem to be talking in Circles here EG,

You say it is impossible to obey God without the Holy Spirit, and I agree. You say God's Commandments are not made for the Christian, which I disagree of course.

But now you say you can keep the Commandments of God 100% and be guilty of Transgression of God's Commandments.

How can His Spirit provide the Spiritual help necessary to meet the righteous requirements of the Law, and yet condemn us for following this same Spirit?

Whose judgment are you using?
Doesn't scripture say if you fail in one part of the law your guilty of failing the whole law?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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#94
Doesn't scripture say if you fail in one part of the law your guilty of failing the whole law?
It does, but in context it does not say to ignore or do away with:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”

Also I think this lends to understanding the same principle:

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."[/FONT]
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
372
39
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#95
Good day Hizikyah,



And his commands are these:

"And this is His commandment, that we should believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and we should love one another, just as He gave the commandment to us. And the one keeping His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us: by the Spirit whom He has given to us."

We are under a new covenant, not the old. Anyone who is trusting in the keeping of the works of the law as a requirement for salvation, then they are not trusting in Christ's finished work on the cross. Jesus came to fulfill the law not perpetuate it.
The law of Christ.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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#96
Doesn't scripture say if you fail in one part of the law your guilty of failing the whole law?
Of course it does.. What good would 10 laws be if we could choose to obey 3 of them, or 7 of them and break the rest. What good would any instruction of any kind be if we could disregard whatever parts that are inconvenient to us?

What good is a promise from God if He could just ignore parts of His promise. What good is a map if I rip in in two and disregard one half of it?

What good is a man who doesn't murder people, but steals from them and cheats them?

How can I claim to "love God with all my heart", then turn right around and create images of Him in the likeness of man, which He Expressly Commanded against in the very First of the 10 Commandments.

Of course we should know to trust EVERY Word of God/Jesus. Not just the Word's that may be used to support our religious traditions.
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
372
39
28
#97
GAL. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was
added because of transgressions
, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#98
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]This has not yet been fulfilled:

Malachi/Malakyah 4:1-4, “For look, the day shall come, burning like a furnace, and all the proud, and every wrongdoer shall be stubble. And the day that shall come shall burn them up,” said
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts, “which leaves to them neither root nor branch. 2 “But to you who fear My Name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings. And you shall go out and leap for joy like calves from the stall. 3 “And you shall trample the wrongdoers, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,” said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts. 4 “Remember the Torah of Mosheh, My servant, which I commanded him in Ḥorĕḇ for all Yisra’ĕl – laws and right-rulings."[/FONT]
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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#99
Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."





THe Law has not changed, the priesthood has been changed, the Laws concerning the priesthood are now carrie out by Yahshua/Jesus:

Hebrews 7:13, “For He of whom this is said belongs to another tribe, from which no one had attended at the Altar. For it is perfectly clear that our Master arose from Yehuḏah, a tribe about which Mosheh never spoke of concerning priesthood.”


Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."


changed” is word #G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis (me-ta'-the-sis) n.,transposition, i.e. transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law). [from G3346], KJV: change, removing, translation, Root(s): G3346


Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
#G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis; 1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established


As in the priesthood on earth, Levites are abolished, and the priesthood in the heavens is established.


Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G3346; transposition, that is, transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.


change” is word #G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v., 1. to transfer., 2. (literally) to transport., 3. (by implication) to exchange., 4. (reflexively) to change sides. [from G3326 and G5087], KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn, Root(s): G3326, G5087


Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; 1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other) 1a) to transfer 1b) to change 1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred 1c1) to go or pass over 1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another


Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:—carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.


As in the Law has been transferred, not mediated by Levites but mediated by Yahshua the High Priest:


John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."


Hebrews 7:24-25,"but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to YHWH through Him, ever living to make intercession for them."


1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is YHWH; and One Mediator between YHWH and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."


1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."


The Perfect Priest!;


Hebrews 4:14-15, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of YHWH, let us hold fast our profession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are--yet was without sin."


Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation; Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."


Hebrews 7:23-28, “For they indeed became priests without an oath, but He became Priest with an oath by Him who said to Him, “יהוה has sworn and shall not regret, ‘You are a priest forever according to the order of Malkitseḏeq. By as much as this יהושע has become a guarantor of a better covenant. And indeed, those that became priests were many, because they were prevented by death from continuing, but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to Yah through Him, ever living to make intercession for them. For it was fitting that we should have such a High Priest – kind, innocent, undefiled, having been separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens, who does not need, as those high priests, to offer up slaughter offerings day by day, first for His own sins and then for those of the people, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Torah appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath which came after the Torah, appoints the Son having been perfected forever.”


Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”


For it was written long before it happened:


Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

The Messiah being High Priest does not make the Law vod, it makes it mediated through Yahshua rather than through the old way, the levites.

For there are still Scriptures to be fulfilled:


Luke 24:44-46, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me. Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it has been written, and so it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise again from the dead the third day.”


Isaiah 45:21-22, “Declare and bring near, let them even take counsel together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has declared it from that time? Is it not I, יהוה? And there is no mighty one besides Me, a righteous Power and Savior, there is none besides Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am Strength, and there is none else.”


Isaiah 46:10, “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from of old that which has not yet been done, saying, ‘My counsel does stand, and all My delight I do.”


There are 2 "it is done" statements...

Fulfilled already
John 19:30, “So when
יהושע took the sour wine He said, “It is done!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”

Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever

4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever


To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”





The law has only changed for those who are no longer under it.

For those who are still under it the law has not changed one iota.

Hebrews 7:18-19
[FONT=&quot]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

You can try to make that about the priesthood but its not. Only someone who is led away with the error of the wicked would twist Pauls word to make some of the law fulfilled but not all.

Galatians 3:21-25
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


If there had been a law, any kind of law, that could have given life then our right standing before God would have been by that law.

But there is a disannulling of the law, all of them, for their weakness and unprofitableness in causing us to have right standing before God. Because none of the law could make us perfect. But the bringing in of a new hope could. Which is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Did the Lord mis-speak?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Is the Lord able to do what He says He will do?


[/FONT]
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
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[FONT=&quot]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Unless[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]heaven and earth passes away[/FONT][FONT=&quot], one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected.[/FONT]
The law has only changed for those who are no longer under it.

For those who are still under it the law has not changed one iota.
Christian law keepers have already removed jots, tittles, words, phrases and whole sentences from the Law.