Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33
Like Tree41Likes

Bible Discussion Forum

Ask (or answer) Bible questions here. Join or start a Bible discussion now!

Thread: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    February 1st, 2014
    Age
    55
    Posts
    733
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    Total Depravity Verse List

    The doctrine of total depravity (or total inability) says that all men, as a consequence of the Fall, are born morally corrupt, enslaved to sin, at enmity with God, and unable to please Him or even of themselves to turn to Christ for salvation. (Thus the necessity of a gracious, unconditional election.) Here is a sweeping survey of the biblical support for the doctrine.

    Unless otherwise indicated, all Scripture quotations are from the ESV® Bible (The Holy Bible, English Standard Version®), copyright © 2001 by Crossway, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Used by permission. All rights reserved.


    Is man basically good or basically evil?


    • Ecclesiastes 7:29 - “See, this alone I found, that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.”
    • Romans 5:7-8 - For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die—but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
    • Romans 5:12,19 - sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned… by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners

    c.f. Job 15:14-16, 25:4-6; Ecclesiastes 9:3

    All men? Are there any exceptions?


    • Psalm 143:2 - Enter not into judgment with your servant, for no one living is righteous before you.
    • Romans 11:32 - For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. (c.f. Galatians 3:22)
    • Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
    • 2 Chronicles 6:36 - “there is no one who does not sin”
    • Isaiah 53:6 - All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way
    • Micah 7:2-4 - The godly has perished from the earth, and there is no one upright among mankind; they all lie in wait for blood, and each hunts the other with a net. Their hands are on what is evil, to do it well; the prince and the judge ask for a bribe, and the great man utters the evil desire of his soul; thus they weave it together. The best of them is like a brier, the most upright of them a thorn hedge.
    • Romans 3:9-12 - What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” (c.f. Psalm 14:1-3, 53:1-3)
    • 1 John 1:8,10 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say we have not sinned, we make [God] a liar, and his word is not in us.
    • Mark 10:18/Luke 18:19 - And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

    c.f. 1 Kings 8:46; 116:11, 130:3, 143:2; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; Jeremiah 2:29; Micah 7:2-4, Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19; Romans 5:12-14; 1 Corinthians 5:9-10; James 3:2; etc., etc.

    Are people good deep down?


    • Mark 7:21-23 - “For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.” (c.f. Matthew 15:19)
    • Psalm 5:9 - For there is no truth in their mouth; their inmost self is destruction; their throat is an open grave; they flatter with their tongue.

    Are men totally depraved? Is every faculty of the person corrupted?

    Heart/Mind (Deceitful)


    • Jeremiah 17:9 - “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?”
    • Titus 1:15-16 - to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.
    • Ecclesiastes 9:3 - Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
    • Romans 1:28-31 - And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were… foolish
    • Ephesians 4:17-18 - you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.
    • Jeremiah 10:7-8,14 - among all the wise ones of the nations and in all their kingdoms there is none like you. They are both stupid and foolish… Every man is stupid and without knowledge
    • Matthew 15:19 - “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.” (c.f. Mark 7:21-23)
    • Genesis 6:5 & 8:21 - The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually… from his youth.
    • Proverbs 10:20 - the heart of the wicked is of little worth.
    • Proverbs 28:26 - Whoever trusts in his own [heart] is a fool

    c.f. Deuteronomy 29:2-4; Psalm 10:4, 36:1-2, 58:4-5, 94:11; Proverbs 10:20; Ecclesiastes 8:11; Ezekiel 11:19, 36:26; Matthew 13:14; Mark 7:21-23; Romans 8:7; Ephesians 4:17-18, 23

    Will/Choosing (Enslaved)


    • John 8:34 - Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.”
    • 2 Peter 2:19 - They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.
    • Titus 3:3 - For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another.
    • Galatians 4:8-9 - Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?
    • Romans 6:6,16,17,19,20 - We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey…? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed… For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
    • Romans 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.
    • 2 Timothy 2:25-26 - God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

    c.f. Isaiah 42:6-7; Psalm 51:12; John 8:31-32,36; 2 Corinthians 3:17

    Affections/Desires (Perverted)


    • Romans 1:24-27 - Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
    • Ephesians 2:3 - we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
    • Proverbs 21:10 - The soul of the wicked desires evil
    • John 3:19 - And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
    • John 8:44 - “You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires.”

    c.f. Genesis 3:16; Psalm 4:2, 52:3-4 140:8; Proverbs 10:23; 2 Timothy 3:2-4; 2 Peter 2:13

    et al (Utter Ruin)


    • Titus 1:15-16 - to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.
    • Romans 7:18 - For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh.
    • Isaiah 1:5-6 - The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even to the head, there is no soundness in it, but bruises and sores and raw wounds; they are not pressed out or bound up or softened with oil.

    Can men change themselves or still do good when they want to?


    • Jeremiah 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil.
    • 1 Samuel 24:13 - “As the proverb of the ancients says, ‘Out of the wicked comes wickedness.’”
    • Matthew 7:18 - “A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.” (c.f. Luke 6:43)
    • Matthew 12:34-35 - “How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.”
    • Romans 8:7 - For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.
    • Genesis 6:5 & 8:21 - The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually… from youth.
    • Titus 1:15-16 - to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

    c.f. Job 14:4; Matthew 12:34; John 15:5; Romans 14:23; Philippians 1:11; 1 John 5:18-19

    Are men at least born pure? What about the “tabula rasa”?


    • Psalm 51:5 - Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
    • Genesis 8:21 - the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth.
    • Psalm 58:3 - The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.
    • John 3:6 - “That which is born of the flesh is flesh”

    c.f. Proverbs 22:15

    What is the natural disposition of man toward God?


    • John 3:20 - “For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.”
    • Romans 8:7-8 - For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God
    • Colossians 1:21 - And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds

    c.f. Romans 1:28-30; James 4:4

    What is man’s relationship to God?


    • Psalm 58:3 - The wicked are estranged from the womb;
    • Ephesians 2:12-13 - remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
    • Ephesians 2:3 - among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

    c.f. Isaiah 59:2

    Can man then do anything to please God?


    • Proverbs 15:9 - The way of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord
    • Proverbs 15:8 - The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord (c.f. Proverbs 21:27)
    • Proverbs 28:9 - If one turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination.
    • Isaiah 64:6 - We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment.
    • Hebrews 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please [God]
    • Romans 8:7-8 - Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

    c.f. Psalm 50:16; Proverbs 21:4; Isaiah 1:10-15; Amos 5:21-24

    Are men at least seeking God?


    • Psalm 10:4 - In the pride of his face the wicked does not seek him; all his thoughts are, “There is no God.”
    • John 3:20 - “For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.”
    • Isaiah 65:1 - “I was ready to be sought by those who did not ask for me; I was ready to be found by those who did not seek me.
    • Isaiah 64:7 - There is no one who calls upon your name, who rouses himself to take hold of you; for you have hidden your face from us, and have made us melt in the hand of our iniquities.
    • Romans 3:10-12 - “no one seeks for God.”

    c.f. Romans 10:20
    Last edited by sparkman; December 6th, 2017 at 04:10 PM.
    SovereignGrace likes this.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    February 1st, 2014
    Age
    55
    Posts
    733
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    Can the natural man comprehend the gospel or come to saving knowledge of God on his own?


    • 1 Corinthians 2:14 - The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
    • 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 - our gospel is veiled… to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
    • 1 Corinthians 1:18,21-24 - For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles
    • Deuteronomy 29:2-4 - And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: “You have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land, the great trials that your eyes saw, the signs, and those great wonders. But to this day the Lord has not given you a heart to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear.”
    • Matthew 11:27 - “no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

    c.f. Psalm 119:18; Proverbs 4:19; Isaiah 42:6-7; Hosea 14:9; Matthew 16:17; John 8:43; Acts 22:14, 26:18; Ephesians 4:17-19; 2 Corinthians 2:15-16; 2 Corinthians 4:3-4; 1 John 5:20

    Can men of themselves accept God’s gift of salvation? Do men choose God or come to Him on their own?



    • John 3:27 - John answered, “A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven.”
    • John 14:16-17 - “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him.”
    • John 1:12-13 - But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
    • John 6:44,65 - “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.” And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
    • Romans 9:16 - So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
    • Romans 11:35-36 - “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” For from him and through him and to him are all things.
    • 1 Corinthians 1:30 - And because of him you are in Christ Jesus
    • Philippians 2:13 - for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

    c.f. Jonah 2:9; Zephaniah 3:9; John 15:16; 1 Corinthians 15:10; Philippians 1:6; James 1:18

    Who supplies faith/belief/repentance?


    • Acts 16:14 - One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.
    • 1 Corinthians 3:6 - I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth.
    • Acts 5:31 - “God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.”
    • Acts 11:18 - When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
    • Philippians 1:29 - For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should… believe in him
    • Acts 18:27 - When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed
    • Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
    • Romans 12:3 - For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
    • 2 Timothy 2:24-25 - And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, [etc.]… God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth
    • 1 Corinthians 12:3 - no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.
    • 2 Peter 1:3 - His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence
    • Romans 11:36 - For from him and through him and to him are all things.
    • 1 Corinthians 4:7 - For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?
    • John 3:6, 6:63 - “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all.”

    c.f. 1 Chronicles 29:14; John 5:44; Acts 3:16; Romans 1:8, 12:3; Ephesians 6:23; 2 Thessalonians 3:2

    Can men do anything to help themselves?


    • Colossians 2:13 - And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses
    • Ephesians 2:1-2, 4-5 - And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked… But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved

    c.f. Psalm 49:7-9; Jeremiah 2:22; Ezekiel 16:6, 37:1-3; Romans 5:6

    Then what becomes of our boasting?

    • Romans 3:27 - It is excluded.

    c.f. 1 Corinthians 1:28-29, 4:7; Ephesians 2:9-9

    Recommended Reading


    Last edited by sparkman; December 6th, 2017 at 04:11 PM.
    SovereignGrace likes this.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    February 1st, 2014
    Age
    55
    Posts
    733
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    Yet some will boast anyways
    SovereignGrace likes this.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    April 23rd, 2017
    Age
    26
    Posts
    1,064
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    nice list of scriptures u see.........

    bu-bu-but muh free will??????
    Grandpa, Laish and SovereignGrace like this.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 3rd, 2015
    Age
    63
    Posts
    21,912
    Rep Power
    612

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkman View Post
    Yet some will boast anyways
    Boast of repenting, laying down their rebellion against God, and coming to believe? How ignoble. Better by far to boast in Christ. Though even Paul boasted of the things which showed his weakness. He was, after all, such a wretch.
    UnderGrace and Nehemiah6 like this.


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

  6. #6
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 17th, 2013
    Age
    64
    Posts
    11,044
    Rep Power
    186

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkman View Post
    Yet some will boast anyways
    Have you convinced yourself yet?

    Mt 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

    Jesus said despite our evil nature we still could do good. Must be some vestige of our created nature.

    Ge 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    Our Creator said we know both good and evil.

    So total depravity does not equate to total inability. At least not a total inability to choose to receive the salvation that God alone offers to all men. Total inability to save himself certainly but not a total inability to know good and evil.

    Perhaps if you remembered your first love you would give thanks for Gods mercy that presented you with the choice of salvation over condemnation. God knows how to give good gifts even better than man.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 18th, 2017
    Age
    75
    Posts
    4,707
    Rep Power
    161

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    Is man basically good or basically evil?
    NEITHER. ALL MEN ARE SINNERS BY BIRTH AND BY CHOICE, BUT ARE NOT CONTINUALLY EVIL.

    All men? Are there any exceptions?
    THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS NO NOT ONE

    Are people good deep down?
    ALL HUMAN BEINGS HAVE A CONSCIENCE, WHICH MEANS THAT EVEN THE UNSAVED CAN DO RIGHT. ONLY GOD IS GOOD (MEANING PERFECTLY RIGHTEOUS).

    Are men totally depraved? Is every faculty of the person corrupted?
    NO. THIS IS MAN-MADE FALSE DOCTRINE.

    Can men change themselves or still do good when they want to?
    ONLY GOD CAN REGENERATE SINNERS.
    BUT MEN CAN (AND DO) DO GOOD DEEDS EVEN WHEN NOT REGENERATED.
    THOSE DEEDS CANNOT SAVE THEM.


    Are men at least born pure? What about the “tabula rasa”?
    ALL MEN INHERIT THE ADAMIC SIN NATURE AT BIRTH.


    What is the natural disposition of man toward God?
    ALL SINNERS ARE AT ENMITY WITH GOD.

    What is man’s relationship to God?
    ALL SINNERS ARE SEPARATED FROM GOD UNTIL THE NEW BIRTH.

    Can man then do anything to please God?
    OBEY THE GOSPEL AND SERVE GOD AND CHRIST.

    Are men at least seeking God?
    SOME ARE. AND GOD SAYS "SEEK YE THE LORD"

    Can the natural man comprehend the gospel or come to saving knowledge of God on his own?
    THE GOSPEL IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION,
    AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE POWER OF GOD FOR CONVINCING AND CONVICTION.


    Can men of themselves accept God’s gift of salvation? Do men choose God or come to Him on their own?
    ANSWERED ABOVE.

    Who supplies faith/belief/repentance?
    FAITH COMETH BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.
    BUT SINNERS MUST REPENT WHEN THEY HEAR THE GOSPEL.
    THEREFORE ALL MEN EVERYWHERE ARE COMMANDED TO REPENT.


    Can men do anything to help themselves?
    TODAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS.

    Then what becomes of our boasting?
    ONLY THOSE WHO SEEK TO ESTABLISH THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS WILL BOAST.
    THOSE WHO RECEIVE GOD'S GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE DO NOT BOAST.
    Last edited by Nehemiah6; December 6th, 2017 at 04:49 PM.
    Magenta, UnderGrace and LittleGirl like this.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Zmouth's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 21st, 2012
    Age
    55
    Posts
    2,630
    Rep Power
    17

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Are people good deep down?
    ALL HUMAN BEINGS HAVE A CONSCIENCE, WHICH MEANS THAT EVEN THE UNSAVED CAN DO RIGHT. ONLY GOD IS GOOD (MEANING PERFECTLY RIGHTEOUS).
    So do you consider there to be any difference between consciousness and the conscience of a man?

    While I don't know what being saved or unsaved would have to do with a person's ability to make a conscious decision, even animals has a conscious mind which they use to make decisions. But generally speaking, the right decision is usually the one which serves the best interest of one's own self. However, that is not always the case since often what would appear to serve in our best interest is actually determential to our own best interest after all things considered.

    But in regards to the only God is good precept, if you know that to be true which you obviously must or you wouldn't have posted it, then does your God reject Jesus's precept regarding the fruit of the tree? So do believe the fruit of the tree is a parable that is correct?


  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    October 16th, 2017
    Posts
    90
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Is man basically good or basically evil?
    NEITHER. ALL MEN ARE SINNERS BY BIRTH AND BY CHOICE, BUT ARE NOT CONTINUALLY EVIL.

    All men? Are there any exceptions?
    THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS NO NOT ONE

    Are people good deep down?
    ALL HUMAN BEINGS HAVE A CONSCIENCE, WHICH MEANS THAT EVEN THE UNSAVED CAN DO RIGHT. ONLY GOD IS GOOD (MEANING PERFECTLY RIGHTEOUS).

    Are men totally depraved? Is every faculty of the person corrupted?
    NO. THIS IS MAN-MADE FALSE DOCTRINE.

    Can men change themselves or still do good when they want to?
    ONLY GOD CAN REGENERATE SINNERS.
    BUT MEN CAN (AND DO) DO GOOD DEEDS EVEN WHEN NOT REGENERATED.
    THOSE DEEDS CANNOT SAVE THEM.


    Are men at least born pure? What about the “tabula rasa”?
    ALL MEN INHERIT THE ADAMIC SIN NATURE AT BIRTH.


    What is the natural disposition of man toward God?
    ALL SINNERS ARE AT ENMITY WITH GOD.

    What is man’s relationship to God?
    ALL SINNERS ARE SEPARATED FROM GOD UNTIL THE NEW BIRTH.

    Can man then do anything to please God?
    OBEY THE GOSPEL AND SERVE GOD AND CHRIST.

    Are men at least seeking God?
    SOME ARE. AND GOD SAYS "SEEK YE THE LORD"

    Can the natural man comprehend the gospel or come to saving knowledge of God on his own?
    THE GOSPEL IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION,
    AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE POWER OF GOD FOR CONVINCING AND CONVICTION.


    Can men of themselves accept God’s gift of salvation? Do men choose God or come to Him on their own?
    ANSWERED ABOVE.

    Who supplies faith/belief/repentance?
    FAITH COMETH BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.
    BUT SINNERS MUST REPENT WHEN THEY HEAR THE GOSPEL.
    THEREFORE ALL MEN EVERYWHERE ARE COMMANDED TO REPENT.


    Can men do anything to help themselves?
    TODAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS.

    Then what becomes of our boasting?
    ONLY THOSE WHO SEEK TO ESTABLISH THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS WILL BOAST.
    THOSE WHO RECEIVE GOD'S GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE DO NOT BOAST.
    Magenta, UnderGrace and Nehemiah6 like this.

  10. #10
    Senior Member NotmebutHim's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 17th, 2015
    Age
    41
    Posts
    1,342
    Rep Power
    55

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    I think the reason that Paul quoted from Psalms 14 & 53 in Romans 3:10-12, is because he had previously stated "let God be true but every man a liar". Paul was driving home the point that both Jews and Gentiles were "unrighteous" and "not good" in relation to God. Because God is the standard of righteousness and goodness, then by default, man is "unrighteous" and "not good".

    However, there is no contradiction in the fact that people such as Job, Abraham and Lot are called "righteous" in Scripture. Not to mention the unnamed righteous man in James 5. Context is important. Also, Jesus Himself said that the scribes and Pharisees were righteous (Matthew 5); only that the righteousness of His audience had to exceed that in order for them to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Of course, He was referring to His imputed righteousness.
    Magenta, UnderGrace and Nehemiah6 like this.
    So you're telling me this is a signature line??

  11. #11
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 18th, 2017
    Age
    75
    Posts
    4,707
    Rep Power
    161

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    Quote Originally Posted by Zmouth View Post
    So do you consider there to be any difference between consciousness and the conscience of a man?
    Absolutely. Consciousness is an indicator of being alive and aware. However conscience is the faculty given by God to human beings for them to determine right from wrong. It is equivalent to the Ten Commandments (the Law) and enables even the unsaved to do right, and many follow the dictates of their conscience while they do not have the indwelling Holy Spirit. However, no amount of good deeds can save anyone.

    Here is what Scripture says about the operation of the conscience (which is totally disregarded by those who speak of "Total Depravity":

    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

    12
    For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;


    13
    (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


    14
    For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:


    15
    Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;


    16
    In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. (Romans 2:11-16).
    Last edited by Nehemiah6; December 6th, 2017 at 08:42 PM.
    Magenta likes this.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    November 12th, 2017
    Age
    45
    Posts
    203
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    I thought I signed up for Christian Chat not calvin chat.


    What Christian can look another soul in the eye, and say" Hey, it is possible for you to be saved if your the elect/predestined to be saved.Hey, I dont know who the elect are so I have to tell ya! God bless you!"

    By the calvinist account every single one of us is jack the ripper and love being jack the ripper. However, 100% of mankind is looking for and searching for God............And we need to tell them that Jesus Christ died for them, was raised again for them. And they will be saved.

    Religion alone proves that men seek for God. Calvinists think that ALL men EVERYWHERE seek for sin and the worst life possible. By their interpretation of scripture mankind would be physically dead.......we would just kill everybody because we are "totally depraved."

    We are totally depraved to save ourselves. That doesn't mean we can't figure out that Christ died for us and we need a Savior.
    Last edited by Mercy4u; December 6th, 2017 at 09:34 PM.
    UnderGrace and Nehemiah6 like this.

  13. #13
    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 8th, 2016
    Age
    52
    Posts
    3,007
    Rep Power
    175

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    While I do not agree with Jack the Ripper part, Calvin was deeply influenced by the writing of Augustine and his writings on predestination.

    I find it baffling that anyone would believe that Calvin would have a sound understanding of scripture, a man complicit in the death of another man, on public record stating it is just to put a heretic to death.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mercy4u View Post
    I thought I signed up for Christian Chat not calvin chat.


    What Christian can look another soul in the eye, and say" Hey, it is possible for you to be saved if your the elect/predestined to be saved.Hey, I dont know who the elect are so I have to tell ya! God bless you!"

    By the calvinist account every single one of us is jack the ripper and love being jack the ripper. However, 100% of mankind is looking for and searching for God............And we need to tell them that Jesus Christ died for them, was raised again for them. And they will be saved.

    Religion alone proves that men seek for God. Calvinists think that ALL men EVERYWHERE seek for sin and the worst life possible. By their interpretation of scripture mankind would be physically dead.......we would just kill everybody because we are "totally depraved."

    We are totally depraved to save ourselves. That doesn't mean we can't figure out that Christ died for us and we need a Savior.
    Magenta likes this.
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    November 12th, 2017
    Age
    45
    Posts
    203
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post
    While I do not agree with Jack the Ripper part, Calvin was deeply influenced by the writing of Augustine and his writings on predestination.

    I find it baffling that anyone would believe that Calvin would have a sound understanding of scripture, a man complicit in the death of another man, on public record stating it is just to put a heretic to death.
    Really if one thinks about it.....Jack the ripper is a pretty good analogy. We are all Cain and are totally depraved, never can see good and never can see God. DEAD enough to never seek God, but not quite dead enough to sin and Kill everyone around us.
    UnderGrace likes this.

  15. #15
    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 8th, 2016
    Age
    52
    Posts
    3,007
    Rep Power
    175

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    I see what you mean, that is a terrible way to think about people in general.

    Sad view of God and people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mercy4u View Post
    Really if one thinks about it.....Jack the ripper is a pretty good analogy. We are all Cain and are totally depraved, never can see good and never can see God. DEAD enough to never seek God, but not quite dead enough to sin and Kill everyone around us.
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

  16. #16
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 28th, 2016
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,282
    Rep Power
    150

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post
    I find it baffling that anyone would believe that Calvin would have a sound understanding of scripture, a man complicit in the death of another man, on public record stating it is just to put a heretic to death.
    By using your logic, we’d have to toss out 18 of the 66 books in our bible.
    preacher4truth likes this.
    "There are two Christs in all of us who are saved."
    KJV1611

    "The Christ in me IS NOT the same Christ that's in someone who came to understand Christ a different way than I did."
    KJV1611


    "I don't have the same standard as you, I could care less what the originals say."
    KJV1611

  17. #17
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 28th, 2016
    Age
    53
    Posts
    5,923
    Rep Power
    239

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    By using your logic, we’d have to toss out 18 of the 66 books in our bible.
    (...and Moses writings as well, oh, and David's as well, two OT "Calvinist's.")

    If they didn't hate the truth of Scripture, they wouldn't hate the man. If he taught their decisional free will heresy the truth that he didn't actually murder would be defended. But they've re-written the narrative, and their gospel differs from Scripture. Can't have God choosing people without their input on what is fair.
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    October 30th, 2011
    Age
    35
    Posts
    8,007
    Rep Power
    77

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    My only thinking is.. when I was young I would choose to do wrong when I knew it was wrong to do so... so we have knowledge of good and evil in a sense.. but choosing evil because it usually is too tempting.. like the chocolate bar that a child can take and eat despite it not being theirs..

    or the Husband that kills his wife for life insurance money... he knows it is wrong but the benefit outweighed the wrong because of selfishness.. or wife that kills husband etc.. the fact that a person can choose money over the life of their spouse is horrifying.. and highlights the depths of darkness we are capable of...



    okay that is just examples.. extreme.. but it is about not being able to say no to the temptation... I think that is the corruptible seed in us.. which must be replaced with the incorruptible.. which is all thanks to GOD and our Lord and Saviour..


    just my tupence.

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    January 21st, 2017
    Age
    25
    Posts
    647
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    By using your logic, we’d have to toss out 18 of the 66 books in our bible.
    No we dont. The difference is repentance. When David & company did what they did, they were repentant.
    Was Calvin ever sorry for that?

    The comparison is ridicilous anyway, as Calvin was a (lawy*r) from europe in the 1500s.

    The logic of UnderGrace was just fine.

    I thought calvinists were the intellectual bunch? I guess that was predestined.

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    January 21st, 2017
    Age
    25
    Posts
    647
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Total Depravity Scripture List, Travis Carden

    The real question is: why does God fail so bad in calvinism? Its horrible.

    You claim God does everything, yet you also double-talk and say you sin daily in thought word and deed? Why dont God give you better sanctification than that? What a failure.

    The fact is if God truly did everything for us, no saved person would ever sin even once, everyone would be exactly like Jesus after conversion, because God is capable of doing that.

    Yet yall claim God does it all, well why the "i sin every day in thought word and deed"?

    It dont make no sense and its basically blaming God for sins.

    The uncomfortable truth is: Our sins are our fault, not God's. God told us to repent, not I repent for you. God told us to obey, not I obey for you.

    We dont like it but thats how it is.
    Last edited by Issachar92; December 7th, 2017 at 07:43 AM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Calvinism - Total Depravity
    By nowyouseem033 in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 462
    Last Post: January 3rd, 2017, 09:08 PM
  2. Doctrines of Grace - Total Depravity
    By sparkman in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: September 11th, 2014, 08:30 AM
  3. total depravity
    By Spokenpassage in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: April 18th, 2014, 05:31 AM
  4. Total Depravity
    By Red33 in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 188
    Last Post: April 21st, 2013, 05:57 PM
  5. Total Depravity vs. Freewill
    By RickShafer in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 542
    Last Post: February 4th, 2013, 07:13 PM