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ref·or·ma·tion
ˌrefərˈmāSH(ə)n/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]noun: reformation; plural noun: reformations; singular proper noun: Reformation; noun: the Reformation
nothing that Jesus taught needs reforming, all that reform crap is a bunch of folks who can't forgive others for doing them wrong, so they think they don't have to forgive just simply write them off to predestined for hell.
even if a person is raped at some point they have to muster up forgiveness may take a life time to do and as well may not even be able to fully forgive that act but as long as a person still strives to forgive that is the point.
ˌrefərˈmāSH(ə)n/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]noun: reformation; plural noun: reformations; singular proper noun: Reformation; noun: the Reformation
- 1.
the action or process of reforming an institution or practice.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"the reformation of the Senate"[/COLOR]
- 2.
a 16th-century movement for the reform of abuses in the Roman Catholic Church ending in the establishment of the Reformed and Protestant Churches.
nothing that Jesus taught needs reforming, all that reform crap is a bunch of folks who can't forgive others for doing them wrong, so they think they don't have to forgive just simply write them off to predestined for hell.
even if a person is raped at some point they have to muster up forgiveness may take a life time to do and as well may not even be able to fully forgive that act but as long as a person still strives to forgive that is the point.
Today's reformist has made it into something more than what it was when it started when it was just movement against the practices of the Catholic Church. today's reformist is about a lot of things that are just one theory after another. now it involves predestination limited atonements and a slew of false agenda's.
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Hmmm...
Personally, I would be reluctant to cast aspersions on a pastor of such accomplishments as Spurgeon, even though I disagree with some things he's said.
It doesn't harm us, or turn us into "compromisers" to respect people with whom we disagree, when that respect is in areas of accomplishment that are truly worthy of respect.
Liberalism may have ruined graciousness
I think perhaps liberal Chrstianity, which believes EVERYTHING should be wholeheartedly embraced regardless of it's disagreement with scripture, has caused a strange backlash.
I think maybe we've had such a backlash against liberal Christianity which embraces EVERYTHING, that more orthodox believers feel a need to DRAW LINES IN THE SAND EVERYWHERE... over every little thing.
I think this need to "draw lines in the sand" to prove our orthodoxy, to prove our distance from liberalism, has caused us to make uncrossable chasms of absolutely everything. And this is to the degree we actually feel like we've compromised our faith JUST BY BEING POLITE AND GRACIOUS.
If we're gracious toward those with different views, we must be compromising our faith!
That's what many churches teach, though they may not say the words.
I think it's shown more in demeanor, and action.
But I think this is what many churches teach.
* Well it certainly is NOT a compromise of our faith to be polite, and gracious, toward those with whom we disagree.
* In fact, I'm pretty sure we're supposed to STAND OUR GROUND, while STILL BEING LOVING.
* I agree it's difficult... but God never promised things down here would be easy, lol.
Oh, and before I sign off...
John Calvin was ugly and his momma dressed him funny.
When the wrong questions are asked, the wrong answers show up.
No Christian in their right mind would speak of the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit as being "unrighteous".
The better question is "Did God make full provision through the offering of Christ for the sin debt of the world to be paid IN FULL"? And the answer is a resounding "Yes" from Scripture.
God does not do things by half-measures, and since the whole world was guilty before God, the penalty for the sins of the whole world needed to be paid for. And that is exactly what Christ did. God laid upon Him "THE INIQUITY OF US ALL" (Isa 53:6), and at the end of His Passion He victoriously cried "IT IS FINISHED".
So the second question to ask is "What did John the Baptist mean when he said "Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world?" Since the curse of sin and death through Adam fell on THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE (Rom 5:12), it was necessary for God to make provision for the entire human race -- that he [Jesus] by the grace of God should taste death for every man (Heb 2:9).
God also made TWO CONDITIONS for Christ's atoning work to be effective for any sinner. Sinners were required to (1) repent -- turn from their sins and idols and (2) believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved -- turn to God and Christ for salvation (Acts 20:21).
God knew in advance that all men would not gladly receive the Word of the Gospel and be saved. However, no man would be able stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgment and say to God "You excluded me from the finished work of Christ, therefore you are responsible for my damnation".
C. H. Spurgeon could easily have believed that Christ died for the sins of the whole world, since there are numerous Scriptures which present that truth. Instead he chose to believe that Christ died only for "the elect", thus his very strange doctrine, even though he was a very earnest and sincere preacher. He was simply *bewitched* by Reformed Theology (as many good many).
No Christian in their right mind would speak of the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit as being "unrighteous".
The better question is "Did God make full provision through the offering of Christ for the sin debt of the world to be paid IN FULL"? And the answer is a resounding "Yes" from Scripture.
God does not do things by half-measures, and since the whole world was guilty before God, the penalty for the sins of the whole world needed to be paid for. And that is exactly what Christ did. God laid upon Him "THE INIQUITY OF US ALL" (Isa 53:6), and at the end of His Passion He victoriously cried "IT IS FINISHED".
So the second question to ask is "What did John the Baptist mean when he said "Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world?" Since the curse of sin and death through Adam fell on THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE (Rom 5:12), it was necessary for God to make provision for the entire human race -- that he [Jesus] by the grace of God should taste death for every man (Heb 2:9).
God also made TWO CONDITIONS for Christ's atoning work to be effective for any sinner. Sinners were required to (1) repent -- turn from their sins and idols and (2) believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved -- turn to God and Christ for salvation (Acts 20:21).
God knew in advance that all men would not gladly receive the Word of the Gospel and be saved. However, no man would be able stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgment and say to God "You excluded me from the finished work of Christ, therefore you are responsible for my damnation".
C. H. Spurgeon could easily have believed that Christ died for the sins of the whole world, since there are numerous Scriptures which present that truth. Instead he chose to believe that Christ died only for "the elect", thus his very strange doctrine, even though he was a very earnest and sincere preacher. He was simply *bewitched* by Reformed Theology (as many good many).
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You agree with Spurgeon, he said that he was not reformed because he never believe in the heresies of the RC Church. He said he was an ana-Baptist, he never believed in baptizing babies, baptismal regeneration or any of the other doctrines of the RC Church that needed reforming.
But the way you are saying it, it sounds like you believe in the RC Churches doctrines, since you are saying that people that believe in reformed theology are nut jobs, because they have a probelm with original theology, so either you trust in RC Churches doctrines, or you are misinformed do not know what reformed theology is, which would mean that you speak on things which you nothing about.
The reason that they were called the reformers is because Luther and the others did not what to leave the RC Church, he just wanted to reform it, that is why going to a Lutheran Church is not much different than going to an RC Church. This is one of the reason I am not reformed, even though I did come out of the RC Church, I did not want to reform it, I was very angry with the RC Church when I became regenerate my His mercy and grace.
As time moved on and those that were being called reformed and were not looking to reform the RC Church, should of been called Restoration Theologians, because they were/are restoring the Doctrines of Grace that the apostles taught and like Spurgeon did not come out of the RC Church, nor did they want to reform it. They just wanted to know the doctrines of the Bible, taught in the Scriptures in the cultural context that they are written in, along with the full council of God's word to fully understand them.
Plus we have more information then those that were reformers did, we know more about the konié Greek and we know more about the Jewish culture than they did and we have the state of Israel. A testimony of fulfilled prophecy and the witness of God's sovereignty towards Israel in reinstating them to the land of Cannan because of His love that He set on the fathers.
Deuteronomy 10:14-15“Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it.15 Yet the Lord set his heart in love on your fathers and chose their offspring after them, you above all peoples, as you are this day.”
But the way you are saying it, it sounds like you believe in the RC Churches doctrines, since you are saying that people that believe in reformed theology are nut jobs, because they have a probelm with original theology, so either you trust in RC Churches doctrines, or you are misinformed do not know what reformed theology is, which would mean that you speak on things which you nothing about.
The reason that they were called the reformers is because Luther and the others did not what to leave the RC Church, he just wanted to reform it, that is why going to a Lutheran Church is not much different than going to an RC Church. This is one of the reason I am not reformed, even though I did come out of the RC Church, I did not want to reform it, I was very angry with the RC Church when I became regenerate my His mercy and grace.
As time moved on and those that were being called reformed and were not looking to reform the RC Church, should of been called Restoration Theologians, because they were/are restoring the Doctrines of Grace that the apostles taught and like Spurgeon did not come out of the RC Church, nor did they want to reform it. They just wanted to know the doctrines of the Bible, taught in the Scriptures in the cultural context that they are written in, along with the full council of God's word to fully understand them.
Plus we have more information then those that were reformers did, we know more about the konié Greek and we know more about the Jewish culture than they did and we have the state of Israel. A testimony of fulfilled prophecy and the witness of God's sovereignty towards Israel in reinstating them to the land of Cannan because of His love that He set on the fathers.
Deuteronomy 10:14-15“Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it.15 Yet the Lord set his heart in love on your fathers and chose their offspring after them, you above all peoples, as you are this day.”
This is precisely why I enjoy Gill's commentary. He goes as indepth as can be.
I have to admit, I had to translate predecessor to see if it means come after or before. My mind is toast.
Are you guys ever on the part of this website with the microphone option? Would be a nice place to have live input, maybe we could organize some live debates with actual moderation? I would like to hear a limited atonement debate by X and Y
I guarantee you guys will think I am american after you hear me speak, it has happened everytime
I have to admit, I had to translate predecessor to see if it means come after or before. My mind is toast.
Are you guys ever on the part of this website with the microphone option? Would be a nice place to have live input, maybe we could organize some live debates with actual moderation? I would like to hear a limited atonement debate by X and Y
I guarantee you guys will think I am american after you hear me speak, it has happened everytime
I think it is a good thing to not want to leave the Church. The more division there is the worse. So I applaud Luther in his attempt to reform it, but surely once it is known that the RC church refuses to go by the Scriptures, it is time to pack it up and leave.
I was born Lutheran and I do not think our church is that similar to the catholic ones? Do you mean the way communion is handled or the baptism practices?
Lutherans are definately not catholics.
I was born Lutheran and I do not think our church is that similar to the catholic ones? Do you mean the way communion is handled or the baptism practices?
Lutherans are definately not catholics.
D
LOL I know. That's why he's one of my Dead Guys. He's the guy who taught me about Targums galore. And because of that, I kind of thought he was an older version of what we now call "Jews for Jesus" going in him. (Okay, so "Jews for Jesus" may no longer be in vogue, but I still use language from the 70s and 80s. Always a step behind everyone else. ) I don't usually check out who the guys were, unless they say something funky, and he never said anything funky enough for me to check out who he was.
I also use Albert Barnes, Adam Clarke, Jamieson Fausset and Brown, Matthew Henry, and Strong's concordance. I'm thinking Strong probably wasn't reformed, but I've never really got any funky vibe from any of these Dead Guys, so never checked to see who they were.
) I don't usually check out who the guys were, unless they say something funky, and he never said anything funky enough for me to check out who he was.I also use Albert Barnes, Adam Clarke, Jamieson Fausset and Brown, Matthew Henry, and Strong's concordance. I'm thinking Strong probably wasn't reformed, but I've never really got any funky vibe from any of these Dead Guys, so never checked to see who they were.
D
Well considering how much bonker "evidence" is shown from the reformed-haters on this site, I don't get how you learn anything about what Reformed is. Considering the substance of what you learn is from reformed-haters, I can see the gospel really doesn't matter one way or another to you, does it? Just as long as "you are wrong" is the core belief of anyone you agree with.