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Thread: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

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    Default We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    I propose an alternative (or perhaps supplementary) theory to conflicting dogmas.

    Right now we've got the Calvinists against the Arminians, and the Pro-Tongue vs. the Anti-Tongue. Have we ever stopped amongst our bickering to realize something rather fundamental? We can't fully understand God. He is too big to fit inside the confines of our brains. And we will never in our earthly state be intellectual enough to be able to understand all of the intricacies of His Word, either.

    Realizing this, we should have a reality check from time to time. What is essential to Salvation?

    We all serve the same God here. But we all see Him through our limited lenses for now. Let's remember this as we fellowship here lest we get caught into endless cycles of bickering.

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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    But isn't debating quite fun? I enjoy it.

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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Debating is fun! But we often do much more than just debate lol
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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by JairCrawford View Post
    I propose an alternative (or perhaps supplementary) theory to conflicting dogmas.

    Right now we've got the Calvinists against the Arminians, and the Pro-Tongue vs. the Anti-Tongue. Have we ever stopped amongst our bickering to realize something rather fundamental? We can't fully understand God. He is too big to fit inside the confines of our brains. And we will never in our earthly state be intellectual enough to be able to understand all of the intricacies of His Word, either.

    Realizing this, we should have a reality check from time to time. What is essential to Salvation?

    We all serve the same God here. But we all see Him through our limited lenses for now. Let's remember this as we fellowship here lest we get caught into endless cycles of bickering.
    To be honest no one here is in danger of coming near to exhausting the study of God (theology). What is "essential to salvation" isn't the end all, growing in grace and knowledge is also a large piece of the journey, as well as study. Through study we understand and know God more intimately.

    What it really boils down to are there are some who are deeper in understanding and study, in knowledge of God, in understanding Scripture, and there are those who are not as knowledgeable, hold to errors, equate (at times) ignorance with being spiritual. The former take a contextual and exegetical approach with Scripture and the latter use a proof text approach leading to error.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    The "What we believe" sections on church websites are getting shorter and less precise by the minute it seems.

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogadile View Post
    The "What we believe" sections on church websites are getting shorter and less precise by the minute it seems.
    "...will not endure sound doctrine."

    Here's something of note. A pastor and former missionary blasted others for using the 1689 LBCoF, mocking them for it. I asked if his church has a SoF (Statement of Faith) and he said yes.

    The thing is they are no different, they serve the same purpose but differ in content and length. Of course, his having a SoF was OK, and "not the same thing" while those holding to the LBCoF are "heretical."
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    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

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    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    To be honest no one here is in danger of coming near to exhausting the study of God (theology). What is "essential to salvation" isn't the end all, growing in grace and knowledge is also a large piece of the journey, as well as study. Through study we understand and know God more intimately.

    What it really boils down to are there are some who are deeper in understanding and study, in knowledge of God, in understanding Scripture, and there are those who are not as knowledgeable, hold to errors, equate (at times) ignorance with being spiritual. The former take a contextual and exegetical approach with Scripture and the latter use a proof text approach leading to error.

    While all you said is quite true; we still can look at published commentaries by men of acknowledged scholarship and find substantial disagreements among them.

    Even among various translations we often find theological bias driving translation instead of letting a straight-forward translation drive theology.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    To be honest no one here is in danger of coming near to exhausting the study of God (theology). What is "essential to salvation" isn't the end all, growing in grace and knowledge is also a large piece of the journey, as well as study. Through study we understand and know God more intimately.

    What it really boils down to are there are some who are deeper in understanding and study, in knowledge of God, in understanding Scripture, and there are those who are not as knowledgeable, hold to errors, equate (at times) ignorance with being spiritual. The former take a contextual and exegetical approach with Scripture and the latter use a proof text approach leading to error.
    And you are a prime example of not being knowledgable, hold to error and ignorant all wrapped up in one false statement after another.

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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by JairCrawford View Post
    I propose an alternative (or perhaps supplementary) theory to conflicting dogmas.

    Right now we've got the Calvinists against the Arminians, and the Pro-Tongue vs. the Anti-Tongue. Have we ever stopped amongst our bickering to realize something rather fundamental? We can't fully understand God. He is too big to fit inside the confines of our brains. And we will never in our earthly state be intellectual enough to be able to understand all of the intricacies of His Word, either.

    Realizing this, we should have a reality check from time to time. What is essential to Salvation?

    We all serve the same God here. But we all see Him through our limited lenses for now. Let's remember this as we fellowship here lest we get caught into endless cycles of bickering.


    "We can't fully understand God."

    True.

    But to say we cannot "fully" understand God is not to say we cannot understand God.


    We never want to make the mistake, as some do, of saying that because we can never fully understand God we should just quit trying, or quit our study.

    * God has surely given us the capacity and the means to comprehend him "sufficiently" for communion, growth, and service.
    * God has also commanded us to study, and promised we will increase in knowledge and wisdom from that study.


    So what of all the bickering, and the continual snipping and hostility that has nothing to do with polite debate?

    * Perhaps learning to be polite while being snipped at is ALSO part of our education.
    * When I'm more polite myself, I usually feel better... I suppose that's something.

    : )
    posthuman and JairCrawford like this.

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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by JairCrawford View Post
    I propose an alternative (or perhaps supplementary) theory to conflicting dogmas.

    Right now we've got the Calvinists against the Arminians, and the Pro-Tongue vs. the Anti-Tongue. Have we ever stopped amongst our bickering to realize something rather fundamental? We can't fully understand God. He is too big to fit inside the confines of our brains. And we will never in our earthly state be intellectual enough to be able to understand all of the intricacies of His Word, either.

    Realizing this, we should have a reality check from time to time. What is essential to Salvation?

    We all serve the same God here. But we all see Him through our limited lenses for now. Let's remember this as we fellowship here lest we get caught into endless cycles of bickering.
    I Have seen a few doctrinal believers on this site. Not many, but there are some.

    But you are right, there are a bunch of babes fighting over reformed/calvin theology and Armin. theology.

    99% of the bickering is over essential doctrine on this site. And God did not leave us hanging on essential doctrine.

    Believe(ANYONE) and be saved. You CANNOT lose salvation. PERIOD.

    It ain't hard to figure out that God tell's us these simple truth's in His word.

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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    What it really boils down to are there are some who are deeper in understanding and study, in knowledge of God, in understanding Scripture, and there are those who are not as knowledgeable, hold to errors, equate (at times) ignorance with being spiritual. The former take a contextual and exegetical approach with Scripture and the latter use a proof text approach leading to error.
    Some who are deeper in understanding God than others? Omniscience is pretty big. So one group understands 0.0000000000100% of God and the other group only understands 0.0000000000075% of God.

    Oh wait, omniscience is bigger than that. So insert a couple hundred more zeros into each of those numbers. And then a couple hundred more...
    posthuman and JairCrawford like this.
    ================================================== ===========
    10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Prov. 9:10

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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    We can know Him, but while in the flesh we will never know all of Him and may never, but I think this is reason to seek to know Him as well as humanly possibe while we are in this trial.

    Psalm 145:1-5, "I exalt You, my Strength, O Sovereign; And bless Your Name forever and ever. All day long I bless You, And praise Your Name forever and ever. Great is
    יהוה, and greatly to be praised; And His greatness is unsearchable. Generation after generation praise Your works, And they declare Your mighty acts. I declare the esteemed splendor of Your excellency, And the matters of Your wondrous works."


    Jeremiah 31:34, “And no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares יהוה. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more.”


    Hebrews 8:11, “And they shall by no means teach each one his neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ because they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them."


    beta and JairCrawford like this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by JairCrawford View Post
    We can't fully understand God. He is too big to fit inside the confines of our brains.
    True enough. As Scripture says Touching the Almighty, we cannot find him out: he is excellent in power, and in judgment, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict. (Job 37:23).

    At the same time what God has revealed in His Word is meant to be understood with the help of the Holy Spirit. Which means that every Christian must set aside preconceived notions, man-made doctrines, and false interpretations, and then compare Scripture with Scripture. Every doctrine must be rooted in the Bible and must be consistent with the character of God and Christ. Paul tells us that there must be heresies within the churches so that they which are approved will be manifested (1 Cor 11:19).

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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    True enough. As Scripture says Touching the Almighty, we cannot find him out: he is excellent in power, and in judgment, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict. (Job 37:23).

    You answered the question the Father would never be unjust to afflect Chirst for sins that are not going to be forgiven. Same verse KJV
    “Touching the Almighty, we cannot find him out: he is excellent in power, and in judgment, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict.”

    The Father does not judge unjustly, Isaiah uses afflict(ed)(ion) as a judgement of sin in Isaiah 53:4-7

    “Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.5 But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on himthe iniquity of us all.7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth.”

    The Father judged the sins of His people or "the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all" "us all" is not the world, unless you believe that Isaiah was part of the sinful world and had no relationship with the Lord (the Father) and in this prophesy he was identifing himself with the world?

    The Father afflicted Christ for the sins of His people, verses 53:10-11 “Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.”

    He(Jesus) bore the sins of many to be accounted righteous, because He shall bear thier sins (iniquities). He did not just die for sins without the definite plan of the Father and His foreknowledge, it is the Father's will for Christ to die for those that are part of the definite plan of the Father, by His foreknowledge. He laid the sins of His people on Chirst so they could be forgiven and He did not unjustly punish Christ for the sins of people that will spend eternity in eternal fire.

    As Job said He will not afflict or judge and in plenty of justice, He will not afflict. Job is saying the Lord will not judge or afflict unjustly.
    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    While all you said is quite true; we still can look at published commentaries by men of acknowledged scholarship and find substantial disagreements among them.

    Even among various translations we often find theological bias driving translation instead of letting a straight-forward translation drive theology.
    Brother MarcR,

    I thought this short blog here may be of interest to you, it was to me. I was interested in finding the NET listed in here with a problem, but not surprised:

    https://withalliamgod.wordpress.com/...-of-acts-2028/
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by Prov910 View Post
    Some who are deeper in understanding God than others?
    Yes, humanly speaking in their understanding some are way above others.

    Omniscience is pretty big. So one group understands 0.0000000000100% of God and the other group only understands 0.0000000000075% of God.
    Knowing God doesn't entail knowing all he knows, it entails knowing who he is. Huge difference between being God and knowing God. Nice try though.

    Oh wait, omniscience is bigger than that. So insert a couple hundred more zeros into each of those numbers. And then a couple hundred more...
    I'm not shocked to see you take a swing at what I said just to mitigate it. The fact remains, some are on milk, others on meat.

    The effect of possessing such maturation, or not, is duly noted.
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    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by IamWhoIam View Post
    And you are a prime example of not being knowledgable, hold to error and ignorant all wrapped up in one false statement after another.
    Sounds like a personal problem?
    SovereignGrace likes this.

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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    While it is true that we cannot fully comprehend God our God has given us His word and His Holy Spirit that we are able to comprehend that which is necessary to be saved and restored to Him.

    Men do not have a problem with what they do not know about God but what they do know.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    "We can't fully understand God."

    True.

    But to say we cannot "fully" understand God is not to say we cannot understand God.


    We never want to make the mistake, as some do, of saying that because we can never fully understand God we should just quit trying, or quit our study.

    * God has surely given us the capacity and the means to comprehend him "sufficiently" for communion, growth, and service.
    * God has also commanded us to study, and promised we will increase in knowledge and wisdom from that study.


    So what of all the bickering, and the continual snipping and hostility that has nothing to do with polite debate?

    * Perhaps learning to be polite while being snipped at is ALSO part of our education.
    * When I'm more polite myself, I usually feel better... I suppose that's something.

    : )

    I agree...we all can learn a lot from each other and our own way of reponding !

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    Default Re: We Cannot Fully Comprehend God

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    To be honest no one here is in danger of coming near to exhausting the study of God (theology). What is "essential to salvation" isn't the end all, growing in grace and knowledge is also a large piece of the journey, as well as study. Through study we understand and know God more intimately.

    What it really boils down to are there are some who are deeper in understanding and study, in knowledge of God, in understanding Scripture, and there are those who are not as knowledgeable, hold to errors, equate (at times) ignorance with being spiritual. The former take a contextual and exegetical approach with Scripture and the latter use a proof text approach leading to error.
    I really agree with your last paragraph! There are people in BDF, who are more knowledgeable, with a deeper understanding, of scripture, and yea, even of God, our Father, and our Lord, Jesus Christ!

    However, problems arise in forums such as this one, which is actually one of the BEST, if not thee best forum, I have ever had the pleasure of expressing my faith, and spiritual journeyings in. (where was I now..)

    (oh yeah)...However, problems arise, when people with (a) less understanding, or depthness of roots, and knowledge, come in here, start reading posts of those who can, and do, and rather "relish" more meatier interpretations, and testimonies. Inasmuch as ignorantly, putting themselves, as well, as everyone they know, in spiritual as well, as fleshly jeopardy. Rather like bringing a knife to a gun fight, type of scenarios. Which, to me anyway, I say bring it on bubba! But, these (and I don't wish to sound more spiritually mature, or, arrogant, or, egotistical) "little ones", can't HANDLE these levels of access, and authority over these enemies of the Kingdom of God, and Kingdom of Light, although they would like to BELIEVE they can?....Let's face it! They can't! And that's just the plain simple truth of the matter. It's like that story in the N.T. about those two guys that cast out demons in Jesus' name. The demons came right up to 'em and flat out told 'em: "Paul, we know, Jesus, we know...but you two?" "Unh Unh!" Then, left that guy and went into those two, and commenced to rippin' them a new sphincter.
    Does this mean we should cease in speaking of the more meatier matters, and interpretations? GOD FORBID!

    But, we should be (at least) cognizant of these little ones, when "working the fields", so to speak, in our striving/s of "weeding OUT", those who are truly ignorant, from those, who are "WILLINGLY ignorant!"
    As well, we should be able to realize that when (not if...especially here in BDF), we slight the truly ignorant, and be admonished, or chastised, by these little ones? The where these admonishments, and chastisings, are coming from! That passage "entertaining Angels unawares", comes to mind. Not sure how Jesus would have taught about behavior, on the internet. Nor any of the disciples, or Apostles either, for that matter. As there was no such thing in their day/s.
    In conclusion, when posts start becoming more and more emotional, that's a pretty good indicator, that that certain poster's "harvesting Angels", are "stepping in" so to speak, on that ones behalf! And sometimes, even "offices and titles" in the government of the Kingdom of God, and Kingdom of Light, which are on the shoulders of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

    (Cutting through the chaff)

    "You GO Lord Of The Harvest!"




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