Colossians 2.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#1
I understand that it is widely taught that Jesus nailed God’s Commandments to His Cross in Col. 2. That many preach it is God’s Commandments that are against us. I did a study on this 20 years ago, but have come to some further understanding regarding some of the scripture and would like to share with everybody on this forum.

It is long, but thorough I think. I welcome any constructive input. I didn’t include every verse, not to omit anything, but to try and not write a book.


Please take the time and truly read the scriptures for yourself.

Paul is worried about Gentiles who have turned to God.

Col. 1:
1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

Col. 2:
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

So Paul is warning them of men who preach enticing words, and the "Take Heed" or "Beware" that these MEN don't spoil (seduce) them through "philosophy and vain deceit" after man made traditions and rudiments of the World, not from Jesus/God, but from man.

Rudiments mean Greek: "Something orderly in arrangement" "to march in rank" "keep in step" "to conform" (in virtue and piety)

So Jesus through Paul is warning the Gentiles not to just follow the crowd it would seem.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:


11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

So these Gentiles are part of God's Church. Jesus has already granted them Grace and Repentance. But Paul is still worried about them given the Mainstream Preachers of his time.

13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

But Paul just said they were "in Christ". So who is teaching that they are "Dead in their sins and the un-circumcision of their flesh. Paul just got through saying they were circumcised In the heart where it counts.

So far we have a worried Paul, who tells them to "beware" of men and their teaching. YES? So who is preaching that the Gentiles were dead in their sins and the un-circumcision of their flesh?

Who is it preaching to the gentiles that they must perform "Jewish customs" to be saved? Did Jesus? Did Peter or Paul?

No. Acts 15:
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

But Paul knows the scriptures teach of a righteous circumcision.


Lev. 26:
40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

And Paul has already spoken of this true Circumcision.

Rom. 2:
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Jer. 30:After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So who was preaching the Gentiles who "Turned to God" were dead in their sins and the un-circumcision of their flesh?

It wasn't God's Laws that condemned those who turned to God in Faith. It was the vain deceit being taught by “men” the mainstream preachers of his time.

"Many" , preach that those "rudiments of the World," those "traditions of men" Paul warns of are God Commandments. They preach that His Word is a curse on mankind.

"Many" preach that the "handwriting of ordinances" that are against us, are God's Commandments. But how can God's Commandments be traditions of men and vain deceit? How can the Sabbath, which Jesus Himself said was "made for man", be against man? How can Jesus be Lord of a Law that is "AGAINST" us?

Well, He can't. What many mainstream preachers teach about Col. 2 is false. Jesus didn't nail God Commandments to the cross, because it wasn't God's Word that condemned the Gentiles "Dead in their sins and the un-circumcision of their flesh". It was the mainstream preachers of the day with their philosophy and vain deceit after the doctrines and commandments of men that they had been preaching for years.

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

How did Jesus make a show of them. Who is them? Triumphing over them. Did Jesus show up God? Did Jesus death show God's Commandments as vain deceit?

No, it was His obedience to God's Laws that qualified Him to pay for our death. And death couldn't hold Him because the wages of sin is death and He never sinned and God can not lie.

So many are preaching that it is God’s Commandments that He nailed to His Cross, but that would mean Jesus Triumphed over His Father, and made a show of Him openly. That just isn’t supported by anything else in the Bible.



16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Paul had just said to them:
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

Did Jesus walk in His Fathers Commandments? Or am I to believe Jesus walked in "rudiments of the World, and “Traditions of men"

Where does God's Sabbaths and Holy Days come from? Are they "Traditions of Man" as many preachers of our time would have people believe? Or are they from God the Father?
What is the "body" of Christ? Is it not His Church? Did other members of His Body follow God's Commandments in the examples we are given for our admonition?How can rudiments of the world or traditions of men be a Shadow of things to come.


18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body (Abel, Abraham, Caleb, Stephen, Peter, and the rest of Jesus Church) by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Let no man beguile me for following Man made traditions and rudiments of the world? Is he speaking about satans angels here? No, those who would preach God's Commandments are against us have no idea what they are talking about. They know nothing about humility and obedience and if they did, they wouldn’t preach that God's Commandments are against us. As it is written:

1 Tim. 1:
5 Now the end(intent, end result) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

How can this be? The Commandment is a curse, and against us. And Jesus nailed it to His cross.

6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Not against us, Not nailed to the Cross, Not Rudiments of the World, Not Traditions of men.

The handwriting of ordinances Jesus nailed to the cross was the Jews perversion of God's Salvation. Their man made doctrines and traditions that they had been preaching for years as law. And Jesus made a show of those mainstream preachers openly when He obeyed the God of the Bible and not their traditions and was raised from the dead because of it.

Acts 7:
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Co. 2:
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Again, how can God's Laws be "rudiments of the World"?



21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

Could this be like the Pharisees Law that says you can't walk on the Sabbath and pick a blackberry? Or you must perform some ritual washing of the hands before eating or be condemned of sin?



22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

They look righteous to men, but they are not from God.


Duet 27:17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour's landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen.
18 Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.

God's Laws are not a curse, and they are not against us and Jesus never nailed them to His Cross.

If Jesus hadn't come back, we would all still be following the same Jews version of His Commandments that they were preaching in Jeremiah's time.

Jer. 14:
14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

This is the "handwriting of ordinances" that was against us that Jesus nailed to His Cross..

Not the “Good” Holy, just and righteous Commandments of God.

 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#2
Rudiments mean Greek: "Something orderly in arrangement" "to march in rank" "keep in step" "to conform" (in virtue and piety)
I think the word rudiments carries a different idea in this case . It would by the element and molecules that make up the corrupted earth to include flesh and blood. You will never find God in a science laboratory under a microscope.

We do not know Christ after the things made as if he was a part of them. That defines paganism They must walk by sight.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1Co 2:9
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#3
That is a book length that I don’t have time to read right now. But God’s law was not nailed to the cross, the law of Moses was nailed to the cross forevermore. The law of Moses was the physical way of obeying God’s law. But now, under Christ, we obey those same laws spiritually, not physically.

Whats the difference? Well for one, we no longer take adulterers outside the city and stone them to death physically. Instead we are to die to sin spiritually. Under Moses, if you physically cheated on your spouse, you were guilty of the sin of adultery. But under Christ, if you even look at someone to lust after them, you’ve already committed adultery spiritually. Whether you break this law under Moses or under Christ the punishment is eternal hell if not washed away by Christ’s blood.

We are no longer under Moses, we are under Christ (Romans 7:1-4)- therefore we no longer obey God’s law physically, but we still obey God’s law!


 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#4
So far we have a worried Paul, who tells them to "beware" of men and their teaching. YES? So who is preaching that the Gentiles were dead in their sins and the un-circumcision of their flesh?

It would appear he is teaching them not to walk by sight after the things seen (men and their teaching)

Those who were dead in their trespasses and sin both the Jew and the Gentile were walking by sight the wrong manner of spirit.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#5
I understand that it is widely taught that Jesus nailed God’s Commandments to His Cross in Col. 2
Well if it is then that is false teaching. How could God's commandments be nailed to the Cross? The guilty criminal goes to prison and pays the penalty for his crimes. The law shows what that penalty should be.

What that verse means is that the verdict of "GUILTY" against every human being for every sin was nailed to that Cross, and "ordinances" refers back to all the laws listed in the Torah. When Christ was nailed to the Cross, He was made SIN for us. That means that all our sins and all of our guilt were laid on Him, and He himself paid the penalty for every man's sins.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#6
I think the word rudiments carries a different idea in this case . It would by the element and molecules that make up the corrupted earth to include flesh and blood.
That's one interpretation. Since we are dealing with spiritual matters, the more likely interpretation is "elemental spirits". Animists and pantheists and many pagan religions believe that nature is composed of elemental spirits. American Indians believe that all creatures have spirits and Shamanism is involved with summoning the elemental spirits (actually evil spirits deceiving the deceived). So these are the rudiments of the world which lead to superstition and witchcraft, and bring people into bondage.

When Paul says "let no man beguile you" he is telling Christians to be on guard against a variety of deceptions (including Gnostic ideas) and superstitions.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,094
113
#7
How can rudiments of the world or traditions of men be a Shadow of things to come.

so which things are/were shadows of what is/was to come?

the answer to this question is written for us clearly:

The Law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves.
(Hebrews 10:1)​

so what was Paul talking about?

Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.
(Colossians 2:16-17)​

which ordinances were crucified, again? is he talking about traditions and extra-scriptural, vain human commands? all those things he mentioned are specifically parts of the Law, which is a marriage contract, a broken one, that you and i were not part of. we are betrothed under what was promised through the prophets: "
a new covenant, a better one"


so did we find a contradiction in the scripture, or a misinterpretation of it?
 
Last edited:

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#8
That is a book length that I don’t have time to read right now. But God’s law was not nailed to the cross, the law of Moses was nailed to the cross forevermore. The law of Moses was the physical way of obeying God’s law. But now, under Christ, we obey those same laws spiritually, not physically.

Whats the difference? Well for one, we no longer take adulterers outside the city and stone them to death physically. Instead we are to die to sin spiritually. Under Moses, if you physically cheated on your spouse, you were guilty of the sin of adultery. But under Christ, if you even look at someone to lust after them, you’ve already committed adultery spiritually. Whether you break this law under Moses or under Christ the punishment is eternal hell if not washed away by Christ’s blood.

We are no longer under Moses, we are under Christ (Romans 7:1-4)- therefore we no longer obey God’s law physically, but we still obey God’s law!


I believe Moses not create his own law. Moses only teach what God want him to teach.
 
Nov 12, 2017
203
4
0
#9
Here is a simple, and I guess UNKNOWN fact. Be filled with the Spirit and walk in the Spirit. Do not quench the Spirit and do not grieve the Spirit......we are doing Gods will if we follow these simple guide lines.


Go ahead and try to follow all the other rules(in the flesh.) YOU and WE will ALWAYS fail.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,094
113
#10
I believe Moses not create his own law. Moses only teach what God want him to teach.

yes

but it is often called "
Moses Law" because of whom it was given through, for example,

For the Law was given through Moses;
grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

(John 1:17)

the Bible itself calls it "
the Law of Moses" for example here:

For it is written in the law of Moses, Do not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain. Is God really concerned with oxen?
(1 Corinthians 9:9)

but when we read that, we should understand just like you say, God gave the laws, and Moses acted as His prophet, going between God and the people -- at Sinai when He made that contract ((for the Law is a contract)) with the people, they specifically requested that Moses go between them and God, because they were afraid that if they stood before God directly, they would be destroyed.


 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,094
113
#11
Here is a simple, and I guess UNKNOWN fact. Be filled with the Spirit and walk in the Spirit. Do not quench the Spirit and do not grieve the Spirit......we are doing Gods will if we follow these simple guide lines.


Go ahead and try to follow all the other rules(in the flesh.) YOU and WE will ALWAYS fail.

hey no skipping ahead lol

that's Colossians chapter 3

;)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#12
Here is a simple, and I guess UNKNOWN fact. Be filled with the Spirit and walk in the Spirit. Do not quench the Spirit and do not grieve the Spirit......we are doing Gods will if we follow these simple guide lines.
This is called "the simplicity of Christ", and this is also taught in Colossians 2.

Here is how one can summarize this chapter and apply its teachings:

HUMAN WISDOM IS ALWAYS IN CONFLICT WITH GOD'S WISDOM

1. God's wisdom and knowledge are perfect -- vv 1-3

2. False teachers deceive and entice Christians with their wisdom -- v 4

3. Christians are to walk by faith totally focused on Christ Jesus the Lord -- vv 5-7

4. Christians are to beware of Gnosticism, Rabbinism, and pagan superstitions -- v 8

5. Christians are complete in Christ -- vv 9-13

6. Our sins and our guilt were nailed to the Cross and expunged -- v 14

7. Christ triumphed over Satan and all evil spirits through His finished work -- v 15

8. Religious ceremonial observances are null and void -- vv 16,17

9. We are not to be deceived into Monasticism and angel worship (including prayers to Mary and the saints) -- vv 18,19

10. We are no longer subject to carnal ordinances and dietary restrictions as per the traditions of men -- vv 20-22

11. Asceticism is "will worship", not true worship -- v 23

A lot of this teaching would be applicable to the doctrines and practices of the RCC.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,094
113
#13

Col. 2:
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

So Paul is warning them of men who preach enticing words, and the "Take Heed" or "Beware" that these MEN don't spoil (seduce) them through "philosophy and vain deceit" after man made traditions and rudiments of the World, not from Jesus/God, but from man.
"tradition" is singular here in the scripture, not plural.

he is not warning against being deceived into following "
traditions" ((plural)) -- but about being deceived 'after the tradition ((singular)) of men'

so, obvious question:

in the context of what is being said -- which is walking, being rooted, building, being established ((vv. 6-7)) -- what exactly is '
the tradition ((singular)) of men' ?

isn't it human tradition, as far as religion & justification before God, to keep a bunch of laws? to attain worthiness by our works? to establish a righteousness for ourselves? to lay out a group or ordinances and regulations, by which man says they are '
holy' if they obey them? setting up a means of comparison between men - this one is holier, he keeps more of these regulations; this one is not as holy, he fails - setting up a way for men to judge one another?

that's exactly what 99% of all religious belief on the planet is. is that '
tradition' of mankind? it's what the Jews did, and still do. my understanding is that Christianity is actually the exception to this rule . . ?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#14
I want to add ordinances or decrees are not that of YHWH but rather opinions of man

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Colossians 2:20 If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances*?[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*G1379 δογματίζω dogmatizo (d̮og-ma-tiy'-zō) v.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1. to prescribe by decree or statute.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2. (reflexively) to submit to decree, ceremonially rule by decree.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3. (passively) to be subject to decrees.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][from G1378][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: be subject to ordinances [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Root(s): G1378 [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]G1378 δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1. that which is supposed as good or which seems right (whether it actually is or not).[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2. (concisely) an opinion on a matter.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3. (by conclusion) a decree or ordinance (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical).[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][from the base of G1380][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: decree, ordinance

Also

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Colossians 2:8, “See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.”

All the Sabbaths are 100% founded in Scripture and about the Messiah:

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever

4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

[/FONT]

thus any who use this as a way to testify against YHWH's Sabbath's are missusing the passage.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
83
#15
That is a book length that I don’t have time to read right now. But God’s law was not nailed to the cross, the law of Moses was nailed to the cross forevermore. The law of Moses was the physical way of obeying God’s law. But now, under Christ, we obey those same laws spiritually, not physically.

Whats the difference? Well for one, we no longer take adulterers outside the city and stone them to death physically. Instead we are to die to sin spiritually. Under Moses, if you physically cheated on your spouse, you were guilty of the sin of adultery. But under Christ, if you even look at someone to lust after them, you’ve already committed adultery spiritually. Whether you break this law under Moses or under Christ the punishment is eternal hell if not washed away by Christ’s blood.

We are no longer under Moses, we are under Christ (Romans 7:1-4)- therefore we no longer obey God’s law physically, but we still obey God’s law!
Yes the law/God's 10 Commandments are still with us...

just observed differently from the letter of the OT.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
57
HBG. Pa. USA
#16
Re: Colossians 2. and the Gospel

"tradition" is singular here in the scripture, not plural.

he is not warning against being deceived into following "
traditions" ((plural)) -- but about being deceived 'after the tradition ((singular)) of men'

so, obvious question:

in the context of what is being said -- which is walking, being rooted, building, being established ((vv. 6-7)) -- what exactly is '
the tradition ((singular)) of men' ?

isn't it human tradition, as far as religion & justification before God, to keep a bunch of laws? to attain worthiness by our works? to establish a righteousness for ourselves? to lay out a group or ordinances and regulations, by which man says they are '
holy' if they obey them? setting up a means of comparison between men - this one is holier, he keeps more of these regulations; this one is not as holy, he fails - setting up a way for men to judge one another?

that's exactly what 99% of all religious belief on the planet is. is that '
tradition' of mankind? it's what the Jews did, and still do. my understanding is that Christianity is actually the exception to this rule . . ?
The solution to this tradition to which you speak?

The mystery.... which is Christ in us, the hope of glory: Which we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. And we are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also we are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also we are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And we, being dead in our sins and the uncircumcision of our flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven us all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting to the ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge our conscience (our inner man) from dead works (sin; for the wages of sin is death) to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Which is Christ in us the hope of glory.

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. . For would they not have cease to be offered? But we know that He was manifested to take away our sin and in Him is no sin. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
For GOD hath said, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." And HE shall be our GOD and we shall be HIS people, and of their sins and their lawlessnesses shall I under no circumstances still be reminded. For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.

Christ (the Word, His Commandments, GOD's will) in us is the hope of Glory; GOD. For without this it is impossible to please GOD. So do we then make void the Law through Faith? God forbid! No that is not the case. We establish (sustain, uphold) it!


So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (That is, to bring Christ, the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments) down from above

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (That is, to bring up Christ, the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments again from the dead.)

But what saith it? The Word (Christ; the Word, the commandments, the Law) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, in thy heart: that we may do it; that is, THE WORD OF FAITH, which we preach.

What is Faith? Christ; the Word, God's Commandments; the Law in our hearts and in our mouths that we do it, that is what Faith is and that is what we preach!

This is the new ministration. We are declared to be the epistle of Christ. Written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; For God leadeth us to repentance and it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.

So we shall love the LORD our GOD and our fellow man with all our hearts and all our minds and all our strength. No greater love can a man have than that to which they lay their life down for the brethren. And on this Love hangs ( depends ) all the Law and Prophets.

(Heb 9:13-15 10:4,
14-16; Rom 10:6-8,2:4; Deut 30:12-14; 2Co 3:3-5)

 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
83
#17

yes

but it is often called "
Moses Law" because of whom it was given through, for example,
For the Law was given through Moses;
grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

(John 1:17)

the Bible itself calls it "
the Law of Moses" for example here:

For it is written in the law of Moses, Do not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain. Is God really concerned with oxen?
(1 Corinthians 9:9)

but when we read that, we should understand just like you say, God gave the laws, and Moses acted as His prophet, going between God and the people -- at Sinai when He made that contract ((for the Law is a contract)) with the people, they specifically requested that Moses go between them and God, because they were afraid that if they stood before God directly, they would be destroyed.
Are you perhaps missing something here ?
The people only requested Moses to go between them and God AFTER the 10 Commandments had already been given them by God personally Ex 20v18, 19 and Deut 5v22-25...and to which God added no more....the rest were given through Moses. The people said they did not want to hear God anymore...but they had already heard the 10 Commandments....therefore they (the 10 Commandments) can not all be lumped together as one law with the rest of them and called 'Moses law. Christians are making this mistake and falsly abolish all including the sabbath day....they are in gross error !
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#18
Are you perhaps missing something here ?
The people only requested Moses to go between them and God AFTER the 10 Commandments had already been given them by God personally Ex 20v18, 19 and Deut 5v22-25...and to which God added no more..
The ten words were a specific part of His covenant with Israel. They were then expanded on in detail in Exod 21-23.

..the rest were given through Moses. The people said they did not want to hear God anymore...but they had already heard the 10 Commandments....therefore they (the 10 Commandments) can not all be lumped together as one law with the rest of them and called 'Moses law. Christians are making this mistake and falsly abolish all including the sabbath day....they are in gross error !
The so called ten commandments were given to Israel because God had delivered them from Egypt. They were the foundation of the law of Moses, and the basis by which Israel were to live.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#19
That is a book length that I don’t have time to read right now. But God’s law was not nailed to the cross, the law of Moses was nailed to the cross forevermore. The law of Moses was the physical way of obeying God’s law. But now, under Christ, we obey those same laws spiritually, not physically.

Whats the difference? Well for one, we no longer take adulterers outside the city and stone them to death physically. Instead we are to die to sin spiritually. Under Moses, if you physically cheated on your spouse, you were guilty of the sin of adultery. But under Christ, if you even look at someone to lust after them, you’ve already committed adultery spiritually. Whether you break this law under Moses or under Christ the punishment is eternal hell if not washed away by Christ’s blood.

We are no longer under Moses, we are under Christ (Romans 7:1-4)- therefore we no longer obey God’s law physically, but we still obey God’s law!
I am not aware of ANY Laws that Moses created. It was a law of God not to "hate your brother in your heart, or lust after other women or spiritually speaking, lust after other "paths" or "Ways" other than what God has given us.

Thanks for your reply, but I was hoping to address the specifics of Col. 2.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#20
It would appear he is teaching them not to walk by sight after the things seen (men and their teaching)

Those who were dead in their trespasses and sin both the Jew and the Gentile were walking by sight the wrong manner of spirit.
Yes, it was MEN who taught the gentiles couldn't be saved without physical circumcision, therefore remained dead in their sins. It was their "handwriting of ordinances" that taught this, not God's Laws.