Two Paths to God?

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newton3003

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2017
437
42
28
#1
God judges us by our faith in Him. Our faith is measured in term of our works. I tell you that if that were not so, we would have no need of the Bible, which from the Old Testament to the New Testament instructs us on the things we should do. As 2 Timothy 3:16 says, “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness…”

Does 2 Timothy 3:16 imply that the things the Bible tells us to do are merely to confirm to eachother our faith in God, while, as it says in 1 Samuel 16:7, “…For the LORD sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart?” It is God who judges us on whether we have been righteous enough for entry into His Kingdom; man does not decide that.

But from what man has conveyed to us, which comes from God, there appear to be two paths to righteousness. In most Christian Bibles there is both the Old and the New Testament. The Old Testament defines what is know as Mosaic Law, that is, the Law of God conveyed by Moses, and the New Testament defines God’s Law as conveyed by Jesus.

Suppose Moses and Jesus stood side by side, with Moses speaking first. Moses says, as per Deuteronomy 28:1, “And if you faithfully obey the voice of the LORD your God, being careful to do all his commandments that I command you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you obey the voice of the LORD your God. Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the field. Blessed shall be the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground and the fruit of your cattle, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock. Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.”

Then Jesus says, as per Matthew 5: 17-19, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus goes on to say, as per Matthew 22:37-40, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Well…Moses infers that we will be blessed if we were to abide by the 450 some-odd Laws that are in the Old Testament, and Jesus infers that God would judge us to be righteous if we merely abide by the two commandments Jesus has given us. At first glance, from what Jesus says, the two commandments encompass Mosaic Law, which includes things like not doing certain things on the Sabbath, and not to eat pork. But Jesus also says, in Matthew 15:11, “…it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” He also says, in Matthew 15:17-20, “Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person…”

But did not Jesus say that whoever relaxes one of the least Mosaic Laws will be called least into Heaven, if laws like not keeping Kosher are one of the least of the Mosaic Laws? And did Jesus not say he came not to relax the least of the Mosaic Laws? Is there a contradiction? It may seem so at first glance, but in a divine sense there is no contradiction at all if we consider that God wants, as is said in John 3:16-17, that we should all be saved.

Consider that man is not perfect, and that God in Genesis saw that the intention of man’s heart is evil beginning with his youth. That is, man is not perfect, so no man can abide by all the Laws in the Old Testament, at least at once. If God determined that man has to abide by every such Laws to be admitted in His Kingdom, then none of us have a chance of being there! When Jesus said that those who don’t abide by the least of the Mosaic Law will be called least into Heaven, I tell you he merely inferred that there is less of a likelihood that such of us would be admitted to Heaven, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that we won’t be admitted to Heaven at all.

If it is a sin to eat pork, we can ask God to forgive us of this sin and be cleansed from it. Psalm 51:1-3 says, “Have mercy on me, O God, according to your steadfast love; according to your abundant mercy blot out my transgressions. WASH ME THOROUGHLY FROM MY INIQUITY, AND CLEANSE ME FROM MY SIN! For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me.”

Now along comes James who says, in 2:10, “…whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.” This seems to be a rebuke to those who are intent in following Mosaic Law to the letter. After all, why would God deny us entry into Heaven if we abided by all of the Mosaic Law? But as James has mildly inferred, to do so is a challenge, for if we don’t abide by even one of the laws, it’s like we’ve pulled away a link in a chain, causing the whole chain to collapse. So, we would be better off in aiming to abide by the two commandments of Jesus, mentioned above. In setting our sights as such, God may judge us to be righteous on the whole, disregarding some of our imperfections.

So, are there two paths to God? The answer has to be that there are. One such path is inferred by James, and the other path is given by Jesus.
 
Last edited:

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,417
3,468
113
#2
God judges us by our faith in Him. Our faith is measured in term of our works.
The Word Faith has nothing to do with Works...

Faith is Trusting.. Trusting God..

Faith is not works and works is not faith... Totally different things..
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#3
There is only one way.

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

1 Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore cleanse out the old leaven, so that you are a new lump, as you are unleavened. For also Messiah our Passover was offered for us. So then let us observe the festival, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 10:45, “For even the Son of Aḏam did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]


 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#4
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 89:26-37, “He will call out to Me; ‘You are My Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of My salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky.”[/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#5
The Word Faith has nothing to do with Works...

Faith is Trusting.. Trusting God..

Faith is not works and works is not faith... Totally different things..
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."
[/FONT]
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
113
58
#6
The Word Faith has nothing to do with Works...

Faith is Trusting.. Trusting God..

Faith is not works and works is not faith... Totally different things..
Yes, faith is believing/trusting and obedience which "follows" and is produced "out of" faith is works. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. Too many people seem to take faith AND works, wrap them BOTH up in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package, making no distinction between faith AND works.

The end result is salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works. :(
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#7
Law keeping could only be a path to God if one were able to keep it perfectly. But, the Law itself tells us that nobody is able to keep it to God's standard. There is NO GOOD ENOUGH without perfection.

Lev 17:11
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
KJV

Not that God has said I have given it to you not you have given it to me.

From the beginning it is God's work alone hat saves us and sanctifies us.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#8
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#9
Tis only ONE way, to the Father! That way is Jesus Christ of Nazareth! He IS "the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIGHT!" "NO One, comes to the Father, but by ME!"
Any "other" way to God the Father, is as a thief, or, a robber! And, being so? Shall be treated as such!
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#10
Pr 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#11
God judges us by our faith in Him. Our faith is measured in term of our works. I tell you that if that were not so, we would have no need of the Bible, which from the Old Testament to the New Testament instructs us on the things we should do. As 2 Timothy 3:16 says, “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness…”

Does 2 Timothy 3:16 imply that the things the Bible tells us to do are merely to confirm to eachother our faith in God, while, as it says in 1 Samuel 16:7, “…For the LORD sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart?” It is God who judges us on whether we have been righteous enough for entry into His Kingdom; man does not decide that.

But from what man has conveyed to us, which comes from God, there appear to be two paths to righteousness. In most Christian Bibles there is both the Old and the New Testament. The Old Testament defines what is know as Mosaic Law, that is, the Law of God conveyed by Moses, and the New Testament defines God’s Law as conveyed by Jesus.

Suppose Moses and Jesus stood side by side, with Moses speaking first. Moses says, as per Deuteronomy 28:1, “And if you faithfully obey the voice of the LORD your God, being careful to do all his commandments that I command you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you obey the voice of the LORD your God. Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the field. Blessed shall be the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground and the fruit of your cattle, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock. Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.”

Then Jesus says, as per Matthew 5: 17-19, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus goes on to say, as per Matthew 22:37-40, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Well…Moses infers that we will be blessed if we were to abide by the 450 some-odd Laws that are in the Old Testament, and Jesus infers that God would judge us to be righteous if we merely abide by the two commandments Jesus has given us. At first glance, from what Jesus says, the two commandments encompass Mosaic Law, which includes things like not doing certain things on the Sabbath, and not to eat pork. But Jesus also says, in Matthew 15:11, “…it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” He also says, in Matthew 15:17-20, “Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person…”

But did not Jesus say that whoever relaxes one of the least Mosaic Laws will be called least into Heaven, if laws like not keeping Kosher are one of the least of the Mosaic Laws? And did Jesus not say he came not to relax the least of the Mosaic Laws? Is there a contradiction? It may seem so at first glance, but in a divine sense there is no contradiction at all if we consider that God wants, as is said in John 3:16-17, that we should all be saved.

Consider that man is not perfect, and that God in Genesis saw that the intention of man’s heart is evil beginning with his youth. That is, man is not perfect, so no man can abide by all the Laws in the Old Testament, at least at once. If God determined that man has to abide by every such Laws to be admitted in His Kingdom, then none of us have a chance of being there! When Jesus said that those who don’t abide by the least of the Mosaic Law will be called least into Heaven, I tell you he merely inferred that there is less of a likelihood that such of us would be admitted to Heaven, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that we won’t be admitted to Heaven at all.

If it is a sin to eat pork, we can ask God to forgive us of this sin and be cleansed from it. Psalm 51:1-3 says, “Have mercy on me, O God, according to your steadfast love; according to your abundant mercy blot out my transgressions. WASH ME THOROUGHLY FROM MY INIQUITY, AND CLEANSE ME FROM MY SIN! For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me.”

Now along comes James who says, in 2:10, “…whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.” This seems to be a rebuke to those who are intent in following Mosaic Law to the letter. After all, why would God deny us entry into Heaven if we abided by all of the Mosaic Law? But as James has mildly inferred, to do so is a challenge, for if we don’t abide by even one of the laws, it’s like we’ve pulled away a link in a chain, causing the whole chain to collapse. So, we would be better off in aiming to abide by the two commandments of Jesus, mentioned above. In setting our sights as such, God may judge us to be righteous on the whole, disregarding some of our imperfections.

So, are there two paths to God? The answer has to be that there are. One such path is inferred by James, and the other path is given by Jesus.
Actually, your premise is off. God judges by the works of Jesus.
 

JairCrawford

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2017
107
6
0
#12
First of all, great question. I'm by no means a Bible expert so I'll try my best to answer it. Lol

When you stitch said teachings by Moses and Jesus together like that, yes, it does seem to flow. But we need to look at the full context of the law, as well as the full context of the teachings of Jesus in order to find that it's not nearly as simple as stitching those passages together.

First of all (and some may or may not agree with me here, but of this I am currently convinced), I do not believe the Mosaic Law was ever for the salvation of mankind in the ancient times. Why? First, it was only for Israel. No other nations seemed to have knowledge or access to the Mosaic Law, especially since Israel had a tendency to exterminate other nations at the time. It wouldn't be until the time of Jonah, much later, that any sort of mission work would be done, and the people of Nineveh were told to repent from their sins. I do not recall a specific conversion to the Mosaic Law.

Consider the sermons on the mount and plain. Jesus raised the already ridiculously high (and very scary, if read literally) standards of the Mosaic Law to an impossibly high standard. A standard no mortal could ever dream of achieving. And that is the whole point. Jesus is saying this is what needs to be done if you wish to 'earn' your salvation. And it simply cannot be done. Faith in His completed work is the only way.

I believe the reason Jesus said what he said about the law never passing away is because of the spiritual significance of it. But remember even Jesus focused on the parts of the law that reflected grace and mercy. And He lashed out at the Pharisees for doing the opposite. Jesus in His practice of the law did not seem concerned about the more gruesome aspects such as stoning. In fact He seemed to reject it.

In conclusion, perhaps, it has always been one way. And it has always been about faith. Even in the Old Testament times. Remember before Isaiah prophecies on the Messiah, what does God tell him? That He doesn't want their sacrifices any more! Many people seem to gloss over that.

Some food for thought. :)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,540
3,503
113
#13
God judges us by our faith in Him. Our faith is measured in term of our works. I tell you that if that were not so, we would have no need of the Bible, which from the Old Testament to the New Testament instructs us on the things we should do. As 2 Timothy 3:16 says, “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness…”

Does 2 Timothy 3:16 imply that the things the Bible tells us to do are merely to confirm to eachother our faith in God, while, as it says in 1 Samuel 16:7, “…For the LORD sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart?” It is God who judges us on whether we have been righteous enough for entry into His Kingdom; man does not decide that.

But from what man has conveyed to us, which comes from God, there appear to be two paths to righteousness. In most Christian Bibles there is both the Old and the New Testament. The Old Testament defines what is know as Mosaic Law, that is, the Law of God conveyed by Moses, and the New Testament defines God’s Law as conveyed by Jesus.

Suppose Moses and Jesus stood side by side, with Moses speaking first. Moses says, as per Deuteronomy 28:1, “And if you faithfully obey the voice of the LORD your God, being careful to do all his commandments that I command you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you obey the voice of the LORD your God. Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the field. Blessed shall be the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground and the fruit of your cattle, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock. Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.”

Then Jesus says, as per Matthew 5: 17-19, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus goes on to say, as per Matthew 22:37-40, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Well…Moses infers that we will be blessed if we were to abide by the 450 some-odd Laws that are in the Old Testament, and Jesus infers that God would judge us to be righteous if we merely abide by the two commandments Jesus has given us. At first glance, from what Jesus says, the two commandments encompass Mosaic Law, which includes things like not doing certain things on the Sabbath, and not to eat pork. But Jesus also says, in Matthew 15:11, “…it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” He also says, in Matthew 15:17-20, “Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person…”

But did not Jesus say that whoever relaxes one of the least Mosaic Laws will be called least into Heaven, if laws like not keeping Kosher are one of the least of the Mosaic Laws? And did Jesus not say he came not to relax the least of the Mosaic Laws? Is there a contradiction? It may seem so at first glance, but in a divine sense there is no contradiction at all if we consider that God wants, as is said in John 3:16-17, that we should all be saved.

Consider that man is not perfect, and that God in Genesis saw that the intention of man’s heart is evil beginning with his youth. That is, man is not perfect, so no man can abide by all the Laws in the Old Testament, at least at once. If God determined that man has to abide by every such Laws to be admitted in His Kingdom, then none of us have a chance of being there! When Jesus said that those who don’t abide by the least of the Mosaic Law will be called least into Heaven, I tell you he merely inferred that there is less of a likelihood that such of us would be admitted to Heaven, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that we won’t be admitted to Heaven at all.

If it is a sin to eat pork, we can ask God to forgive us of this sin and be cleansed from it. Psalm 51:1-3 says, “Have mercy on me, O God, according to your steadfast love; according to your abundant mercy blot out my transgressions. WASH ME THOROUGHLY FROM MY INIQUITY, AND CLEANSE ME FROM MY SIN! For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me.”

Now along comes James who says, in 2:10, “…whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.” This seems to be a rebuke to those who are intent in following Mosaic Law to the letter. After all, why would God deny us entry into Heaven if we abided by all of the Mosaic Law? But as James has mildly inferred, to do so is a challenge, for if we don’t abide by even one of the laws, it’s like we’ve pulled away a link in a chain, causing the whole chain to collapse. So, we would be better off in aiming to abide by the two commandments of Jesus, mentioned above. In setting our sights as such, God may judge us to be righteous on the whole, disregarding some of our imperfections.

So, are there two paths to God? The answer has to be that there are. One such path is inferred by James, and the other path is given by Jesus.
OT vs NT salvation
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#14
OT vs NT salvation
It's tempting to think this, but it is incorrect. Nobody in the OT was saved by following the Law, because nobody did so perfectly. The effective route to salvation has always been "faith".
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,540
3,503
113
#15
It's tempting to think this, but it is incorrect. Nobody in the OT was saved by following the Law, because nobody did so perfectly. The effective route to salvation has always been "faith".
Yes, individual faith in what God had given them at that time.

Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

The evidence of their faith required obedience under the law.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#16
Yes, individual faith in what God had given them at that time.

Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

The evidence of their faith required obedience under the law.
So none were saved?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,540
3,503
113
#17
So none were saved?
The result of their faith placed them in Abraham's bosom until the shed blood of Jesus Christ could set the free. If not for Christ's resurrection, the OT saints would still be in the heart of the earth.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,764
113
#18
So, are there two paths to God? The answer has to be that there are. One such path is inferred by James, and the other path is given by Jesus.
No, there is only one path to God, Please see below:

God judges us by our faith in Him.
If by that you mean God justifies those who put their faith in Him and His Son, as well as the finished work of Christ, then that would be true. At the same time He judges those who reject or ignore Christ as self-condemned (John 3:36)
Our faith is measured in term of our works.
Not exactly, but to some degree. Our faith is measured by our total surrender and love to Christ, which should lead to good works as an expression of love towards God and towards our neighbor. At the same time, our works will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
It is God who judges us on whether we have been righteous enough for entry into His Kingdom; man does not decide that.
Since no man can be righteous enough to enter the Kingdom of God (or Heaven) God has made another provision. The Lord Jesus Christ – God manifest in the flesh – was perfectly righteous on our behalf (as the Man Christ Jesus), but He also paid the full penalty for our sins and our guilt. And it is only because His blood washes our soul from the defilement of sin that we can enter Heaven.

But from what man has conveyed to us, which comes from God, there appear to be two paths to righteousness.
It only appears that way. But there is only one path to righteousness, which consists of justification and sanctification. When we are justified the absolute righteousness of Christ is IMPUTED to us (put to our account). At the same time we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, who then imparts His righteousness to us, as we “walk in the Spirit” and apply the Law of Love in every situation, while mortifying (putting to death) the lusts of the *flesh* (the sin nature).
Well…Moses infers that we will be blessed if we were to abide by the 450 some-odd Laws that are in the Old Testament, and Jesus infers that God would judge us to be righteous if we merely abide by the two commandments Jesus has given us.
As you will note in the New Testament, the just demands of the Law of Moses [613 commandments according to Ramban (Maimonides)] drive the sinner to despair, and thus drive him to the Savior.

And God plainly tells us that no man can be justified by the deeds (works) of the Law. So the Law is there to condemn every sinner, whereas the Gospel is there to show the sinner that he must repent and believe of the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the initial “work” which God demands – obedience to the Gospel.
Now along comes James who says, in 2:10, “…whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.” This seems to be a rebuke to those who are intent in following Mosaic Law to the letter.
Actually James is addressing Christians, and reminding them that the Law of Christ (the Law of Love) which James calls the Royal Law, and the Law of Liberty is actually an application of the Ten Commandments. While he does not mention this, the rest of the New Testament shows us that it is only by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit that we can love God perfectly and love our neighbor genuinely. If we break one, we break all, therefore we need to examine ourselves daily, and confess and repent daily (if need be).
So, are there two paths to God? The answer has to be that there are. One such path is inferred by James, and the other path is given by Jesus.
Since James is a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, he cannot possibly give us another path to God. But what James is teaching us is that if our faith in Christ is genuine then (a) we will produce good works, and (b) we will live the Law of Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There can only be one path to God which is EXCLUSIVELY in and through Christ, His blood, and His righteousness, and salvation is EXCLUSIVELY by God’s grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption. But all who come to Christ must at the same time turn away completely from their sins and idols. God now commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30,31).
 
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Waggles

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Sep 21, 2017
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#19
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not
steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remains the same veil untaken away
in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed
into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
2Corinthians 3:

3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out
our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Galatians 2:

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not
entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Galatians 5:

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding
his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholds himself, and goes his way, and straightway forgets what manner of man
he was.
25 But whoso looks into the perfect law of liberty, and continues therein, he being not a
forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
James 1:
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
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#20
6 Sacrifice and offering thou did not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering
and sin offering hast thou not required.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
Psalm 40:

This is the new way - I will put my Law within their hearts > the Spirit of truth