Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

[Ernie07]

To create a distinction between the real church the living organism created by Christ and the Roman Catholic church an organization created by man. One great difficulty encountered when discussing religious things with catholics is the use of identical terms with contradictory meanings.

By Christian church you mean the Roman Catholic church? In that time period bibles were very rare and expensive as they were hand copied. You beat the air with your words to what avail?

Romes version of soteriology must be reconciled with scripture. It cannot be reconciled so it will be proven in error. Unregenerate hearts cannot receive Spiritual truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hi Roger,

By Christian I mean Christian. Up until the Orthodox split there was just a single universal Church. Yes, my belief is that today's Catholic Church was the Christian Church of the first 1000 years but don't let that confuse the issue. Take yourself back to 500, 800, 1200 A.D. and what Bible would be read? Would it be a Bible with 66 or 73 books?

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

hem, catholic and protestant are different text book. Or different religion. Nothing we can do,

So which is the true Bible, the one with 66 or the one with 73 books?

 

[Inquistor]

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. I'm kind of dense!! LOL!

On the particular post you are referring to, my comment was meant to be a humorous slant on the well-known saying, "You took the words right out of my mouth ... meaning that I agreed with everything you said in that post!

 

[Inquistor]

So which is the true Bible, the one with 66 or the one with 73 books?

The complete bibles had 80 books! I have never heard of any bible that contained 73 books!


Why Were 14 Books Removed from the Bible in 1881? | Rocking God's House


By the way, 66 books plus 14 books equals 80 books!

 

[Ernie07]

So you don't believe in The Holy Spirit after all.
If you think I'm arrogant. Then you think, Jesus, the apostles, the Hebrew prophets, and all spirit-filled believers are arrogant too. I'm not claiming any specialist knowledge all of my own. Again, I say you are showing yourself to be ignorant of the Bible.

I didn't say you were arrogant, I said it sounds arrogant that's all. I just wanted to give you an opinion of how it sounds and I was hoping you might be able to help me better understand. I even equated the same kind of "it sounds arrogant like" tone to myself. Sorry you took it as me calling you arrogant as that was not my intent.

I'll ask again because you never answered, So if you feel that you possess the truth regarding the number of books in the Bible did the Christian Church get it wrong for a 1000 year period of time (because the Church of that time disagrees with you)? And if they did get it wrong doesn't that mean Jesus failed to protect His Church from teaching error for if His Church got the Word of God wrong I can't imagine how much more the gates of hell could have prevailed.

My question is related to your earlier statement that "the Holy Spirit in me does not verify them (the 7 books in question) as His Word".

Thanks.

-Ernie-

 

[notuptome]

Hi Roger,

By Christian I mean Christian. Up until the Orthodox split there was just a single universal Church. Yes, my belief is that today's Catholic Church was the Christian Church of the first 1000 years but don't let that confuse the issue. Take yourself back to 500, 800, 1200 A.D. and what Bible would be read? Would it be a Bible with 66 or 73 books?

-Ernie-

Foolishness as neither of us can go back in time. This is straining a gnats and swallowing camels.

What bible did the apostles read? OT scrolls. The disciples later had the gospels and the letters but when God is in it there is sufficient books to accomplish evangelism.

You enjoy much and appreciate little.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Inquistor]

So which is the true Bible, the one with 66 or the one with 73 books?

https://www.catholic.com/qa/didnt-the-catholic-church-add-to-the-bible


Why are Protestant and Catholic Bibles different? | Christian History


List of books of the King James Version - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_books_of_the_king_jame...▼
These are the books of the King James Version of the Bible along with the names and numbers given them in the Douay Rheims Bible and Latin Vulgate. This list is a complement to the list in Books of the Latin Vulgate. It is an aid to finding cross references between two longstanding standards of Biblical literature.

The Apocrypha Books of the King James Bible - Kindle edition ...
www.amazon.com/apocrypha-books-king-james-bible-eboo...▼
Before the 1880's every English Protestant Bible printed had 80 books, not 66! The inter-testamental books written hundreds of years before Christ called “The Apocrypha” were part of virtually every printing of the Tyndale-Matthews Bible, the Great Bible, the Bishops Bible, the Protestant Geneva Bible, and the King James ...

The King James Bible of 1611 was printed with 80 books, ...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=57z1dxyus3g▼
Apr 11, 2016 ... John 8:32 (KJV) 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Why Did The Vatican Remove 14 Books From The Bible in 1684?
anonhq.com/vatican-remove-14-books-bible-1684/▼
Aug 30, 2016 ... In the year 1611 the Bible was translated from Latin into English. Back then the Bible contained a total of 80 books and the last 14 books, which today have been excluded, made up the end of the Old Testament and were as follows: 1 Esdras; 2 Esdras; Tobit; Judith; The rest of Esther; The Wisdom of ...

 

[Ernie07]

Baal and Ashtoreth worship has EVERYTHING to do with the fake Mary who is worshipped by Catholics. That is my whole point! The prophecies are not confined to Jeremiah alone. I was trying to show you where the Catholic traditions originate. Babylon. There are dozens of scriptures. The Queen of Heaven is the title of a false goddess spelled out literally by the prophet of YHVH for you. One of the same titles claimed by the catholic church for it's false goddess they call Mary.

The mother-goddess has been worshipped by every pagan nation on the face of the earth. And God hates it!
That is why you should recognise it from Biblical research. It is difficult to ignore.

Anyone who loves Jesus should be prepared to repent of idol worship. This is a main theme throughout the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. If you can't accept it you might as well throw the Bible away.

Catholics do not worship Mary. I've pointed to scripture for every Marian belief questioned in this thread. The fact that you disagree with the Church's interpretation of that scripture doesn't make it false. I'll ask yet again, name me an instance where the early Christian Church denied that Mary is the Mother of God in the first 1000 years of the Church? If your belief is the truth then others in the Christian Church must have believed it for Jesus would have protected it. It was a belief in the early Christian Church just as it is a belief of the Catholic Church today. To attack that belief is an invention made up by those who hate His Church. Prove me wrong.

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

From what I have seen up to now on this forum, those who "believe" are saints ... which, or course includes DEMONS who also believe ... and tremble at the thought of their futures!

James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

Well stated and much better (and shorter!) than anything I came up with!!! But, that isn't saying much!! Hahaha!

 

[Inquistor]

... Catholic means universal. Roman catholic means the opposite.

Can you please specify your SOURCE(S) for such an off-the-wall statement as the one quoted above?

 

[Ernie07]

World’s Largest Monstrance
This monstrance used for perpetual adoration is 9 feet wide and features the Virgin Mary as Our Lady of the Sign.
Located at the Church of St. Stanislaus Kostka, Chicago.

This virgin goddess on a crescent moon with a sun on her chest has replaced YHVH on the mercy seat.
That is how high the goddess is exalted in Catholicism. She replaces The Lord God.

Unfortunately your hate for the Catholic Church clouds your interpretation and judgement. While your eyes are fixed on Mary in this case, as a devout Catholic my eyes are fixed on my Lord, God, and Savior in adoration. Everything other than Jesus is white noise and I don't really care what is around Jesus as present in the Eucharist and I certainly don't think to myself that I'm exalting Mary. My focus is on Jesus period. Your inference is offensive. I know you didn't mean it to be, but it is nonetheless.

-Ernie-

 

[Inquistor]

Except that there is no salvation for demons and you are just being deliberately silly.

There is ALSO no salvation for those who CHOOSE TO SIN after they (claim to) have been "saved!"


https://www.alltheinternet.com/?q=sin+strongly&ref=12282017182951&p=


Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

 

[Ernie07]

On the particular post you are referring to, my comment was meant to be a humorous slant on the well-known saying, "You took the words right out of my mouth ... meaning that I agreed with everything you said in that post!

LOL!!! I wasn't joking when I said I'm dense sometimes!!!

 

[notuptome]

There is ALSO no salvation for those who CHOOSE TO SIN after they (claim to) have been "saved!"


Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

Then none are saved for we all sin even after we have been saved.

Christ saves us from the penalty of sin not the presence of sin at least not until we are in His presence in heaven.

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Roman catholic church is very exclusive and not universal. They only recognize and fellowship within themselves. All others are lost because they are not part of the Roman catholic church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ernie07]

Foolishness as neither of us can go back in time. This is straining a gnats and swallowing camels.

What bible did the apostles read? OT scrolls. The disciples later had the gospels and the letters but when God is in it there is sufficient books to accomplish evangelism.

You enjoy much and appreciate little.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Why would we need to go back in time as that's what historical documents are for. The Bible the Christian Church used was the Latin Vulgate for 1000 years. That's very clearly documented. That Bible has the equivalent of the 73 books I keep referring to. Where is your proof of your bible (66 books) being used by the Christian Church anytime prior to the 14th century? Answer is there is no proof because it wasn't used and is thus false. Prove me wrong.

-Ernie-

 

[MattforJesus]

If a person holds unto sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away,for God will not take away a sin they hold unto.

It is strange that some people say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,when Paul said awake to righteousness and sin not,but some have not the knowledge of God,and he speaks that to their shame,and God is not mocked for whatever a person sows that shall they reap,and tells the saints to not be deceived by that.

If God tells the saints to stop sinning,or they will not be right with Him,there must be a way for them to accomplish that,and there is,by the Holy Spirit.

But the Bible says some have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,and speaks that they engage in sin.

 

[Inquistor]

If a person holds unto sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away,for God will not take away a sin they hold unto.

It is strange that some people say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,when Paul said awake to righteousness and sin not,but some have not the knowledge of God,and he speaks that to their shame,and God is not mocked for whatever a person sows that shall they reap,and tells the saints to not be deceived by that.

If God tells the saints to stop sinning,or they will not be right with Him,there must be a way for them to accomplish that,and there is,by the Holy Spirit.

But the Bible says some have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,and speaks that they engage in sin.

Sin STRONGLY was Martin Luther's recommendation! And he was the very FOUNDATION of PROTESTANTISM!


https://www.alltheinternet.com/?q=sin+strongly&ref=12282017182951&p=

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Unfortunately your hate for the Catholic Church clouds your interpretation and judgement. While your eyes are fixed on Mary in this case, as a devout Catholic my eyes are fixed on my Lord, God, and Savior in adoration. Everything other than Jesus is white noise and I don't really care what is around Jesus as present in the Eucharist and I certainly don't think to myself that I'm exalting Mary. My focus is on Jesus period. Your inference is offensive. I know you didn't mean it to be, but it is nonetheless.

-Ernie-

You still have to have something else attached to Jesus. Eucharist.

So you are denying that The Catholic church teaches idol worship? And you are blaming me for it?

 

[notuptome]

Why would we need to go back in time as that's what historical documents are for. The Bible the Christian Church used was the Latin Vulgate for 1000 years. That's very clearly documented. That Bible has the equivalent of the 73 books I keep referring to. Where is your proof of your bible (66 books) being used by the Christian Church anytime prior to the 14th century? Answer is there is no proof because it wasn't used and is thus false. Prove me wrong.

-Ernie-

First of all it doesn't matter. If you only had one book you still would not believe unless the pope said it was ok. God has been saving men's souls from the very first man to the present day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ernie07]

You still have to have something else attached to Jesus. Eucharist.

So you are denying that The Catholic church teaches idol worship? And you are blaming me for it?

The Eucharist is Jesus, nothing is "attached". How can the worship of Jesus be idol worship? I get it that you don't interpret John 6, Luke 22:19, 1 Cor 11:24 as the Catholic Church does, but why do you think your interpretation is accurate and the Catholic Church's is wrong? I'll assume based on your previous answers that it is because the Holy Spirit working in you tells you that it is. But, this belief would have had you labeled as a heretic by the early Christian Church who did believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. Not an easy way to say this but if a heretic then why not one now? Honest question...I'm truly not meaning to offend. I'm just trying to get your point of view.

Thanks.

-Ernie-