Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

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Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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Catholics call Mary Mother of God because that's what she is if you believe that Jesus is God. You can't treat Godly ways with man's ways by thinking how could God have a mom. When this belief was first formally proclaimed it was in response to heretics who were denying the divinity of Jesus. If you denied that Mary was the Mother of God in say 800 A.D. you would have been labeled a heretic and no longer a Christian.
-Ernie-
You are putting Catholic Church history ahead of Sound Biblical doctrine yet again. Was Mary the mother of God when he said "let there be light" ? Did Mary beget The Lord Almighty, The Ancient of Days from eternity?

Mary was the mother of the incarnation of God as a Human (Jesus). God had to intersect time and become one of us in order to save us, he did not before that time, have a human mother. John 1:14 "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us."

Are you denying that the Catholic Mary is a deceiving spirit? (Not the real Mary)


What about the apparitions in places like Fatima, Lourdes and Medjugorje. Who are these Spirits? Why the visitations by a spirit claiming to be Mary? Could it be that idol worship in The Catholic Church is encouraging this activity?

Official position of the Catholic Church:
The reported visions at Fátima gathered widespread attention, as numerous pilgrims began to visit the site. After a canonical inquiry, the Bishop of Leiria-Fátima officially declared the visions of Fátima as "worthy of belief" in October 1930, officially permitting the belief of Our Lady of Fátima.


Look at this unholy prayer.

"O Blessed Virgin, Mother of God, look down in mercy from heaven, where thou art enthroned as Queen, upon me, a miserable sinner, thine unworthy servant.


Although I know full well my own unworthiness, yet in order to atone for the offenses that are done to thee by impious and blasphemous tongues, from the depths of my heart I praise and extol thee as the purest, the fairest, the holiest creature of all God's handiwork.


I bless thy holy name, I praise thine exalted privilege of being truly Mother of God, ever virgin, conceived without stain of sin, co-redemptrix of the human race. I bless the Eternal Father who chose thee in an especial way for His daughter; I bless the Word Incarnate who took upon Himself our nature in thy bosom and so made thee His Mother; I bless the Holy Spirit who took thee as His bride. All honor, praise and thanksgiving to the ever-blessed Trinity, who predestined thee and loved thee so exceedingly from all eternity as to exalt thee above all creatures to the most sublime heights.


O Virgin, holy and merciful, obtain for all who offend thee the grace of repentance, and graciously accept this poor act of homage from me thy servant, obtaining likewise for me from thy divine Son the pardon and remission of all my sins. Amen. "


Hail Mary three times.

Here is the link lest I be accused of making this up. https://www.americaneedsfatima.org/...of-reparation-to-the-blessed-virgin-mary.html


Catholics need to challenge this spiritual deception.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Ernie, I’ve been following this discussion for a while, not commenting on my phone, because I was traveling, with family, etc.

You are very articulate and also I have noticed you never really lose your temper or get offended! Good stuff!

However, reading your posts today, it occurred to me you are a Catholic priest, and you are either doing this for some kind of school assignment (upgrading creditials or something) or as part of a Catholic outreach!

Yes, I know your status says “married.” That could be a lie, or you could be some kind of Catholic layperson, qualifying to be a deacon or other position.

So, are you a priest or do you hold any position in the Catholic Church?

Do you have an assignment for some purpose, to persuade people that Catholics are saved by “grace” excepting ”mortal sin,” which you keep on mentioning?

Just curious! Your answers are too solid to just be some ordinary Catholic here answering questions for some 24 for pages for the fun of it!
 
Dec 28, 2016
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There is much disagreement among Roman Catholics concerning doctrine, yet it will not admit this.

And a sordid history, doctrinal developments based on absolutely nothing while pretene is made as if it were early church teachings. Mary as Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix, later developments based on nothing the early church taught are heresies and blasphemous.

The Roman Catholic taunt that all these other denominations have divisions and disagreements is for it to make pretense that her doctrine is pure and that there is perfect unity.

This is not the case.

They will, and do, lie about many things, and deny Mary worship, prayers to Mary, and lie by stating they believe in salvation by grace. They also deny the rampant idolatry within her.

No Catholic is allowed to know they are saved, no matter what they tell you. They've been given an opportunity to make it into heaven. There are many if's to go along with that. One mortal sin and it is off to hell.

Frankly the RCC is a wickedly dark apostate sect that has deceived millions. This apostate sect has also claimed, without recanting, that all outside of her are anathema.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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There is much disagreement among Roman Catholics concerning doctrine, yet it will not admit this.

And a sordid history, doctrinal developments based on absolutely nothing while pretene is made as if it were early church teachings. Mary as Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix, later developments based on nothing the early church taught are heresies and blasphemous.

The Roman Catholic taunt that all these other denominations have divisions and disagreements is for it to make pretense that her doctrine is pure and that there is perfect unity.

This is not the case.

They will, and do, lie about many things, and deny Mary worship, prayers to Mary, and lie by stating they believe in salvation by grace. They also deny the rampant idolatry within her.

No Catholic is allowed to know they are saved, no matter what they tell you. They've been given an opportunity to make it into heaven. There are many if's to go along with that. One mortal sin and it is off to hell.

Frankly the RCC is a wickedly dark apostate sect that has deceived millions. This apostate sect has also claimed, without recanting, that all outside of her are anathema.
More than millions more like billions.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Just curious! Your answers are too solid to just be some ordinary Catholic here answering questions for some 24 for pages for the fun of it!
You're right Angelia. We have two Catholic apologists attempting to convince non-Catholics that Catholicism is just as evangelical as Evangelicalism, and that there is really nothing wrong with the RCC. Indeed it is the bastion of truth. Fortunately the non-Catholics on this forum are well-versed in the nature of Catholicism which is FALSE CHRISTIANITY.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) regards the Council of Trent as authoritative and applicable to their current doctrines, and quotes extensively from it. And this Council was primarily to declare Protestants as heretics (subject to "anathema" -- a curse) and opposes salvation by grace through faith plus NOTHING.

The only recommendation for Catholics who happen to come here is "Come out of Mystery Babylon".
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Ernie, I’ve been following this discussion for a while, not commenting on my phone, because I was traveling, with family, etc.

You are very articulate and also I have noticed you never really lose your temper or get offended! Good stuff!

However, reading your posts today, it occurred to me you are a Catholic priest, and you are either doing this for some kind of school assignment (upgrading creditials or something) or as part of a Catholic outreach!

Yes, I know your status says “married.” That could be a lie, or you could be some kind of Catholic layperson, qualifying to be a deacon or other position.

So, are you a priest or do you hold any position in the Catholic Church?

Do you have an assignment for some purpose, to persuade people that Catholics are saved by “grace” excepting ”mortal sin,” which you keep on mentioning?

Just curious! Your answers are too solid to just be some ordinary Catholic here answering questions for some 24 for pages for the fun of it!
I know nuns consider themselves to be married to Christ. I wonder if priests are not simply married to the church.

Ernie comes in attesting that he just and ordinary catholic and not an apologist but it is evident that he is not completely truthful in that respect.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Keith Green wrote a series of 4 articles, based on reading Catholic catechism and other books. They are long, but certainly worth reading. I have 2 close evangelical friends who came out of hispanic Catholicism, who read these articles. Their only criticism was that he did not go far enough in revealing the massive lie the cult of the RCC is! (Sorry about the copy and pastes, Ernie, this are just to thorough to pass up!)

The Catholic Chronicles by Keith Green

Here are some excerpts from each of the 4. Click on the links to read further!



Catholic Chronicle #1 - The Holy Eucharist: Eating the Flesh of Deity

One might wonder why, in a scriptural look at the doctrines of the Catholic Church, I would choose this subject - The Roman Interpretation of the Lord's Supper (more commonly known as "Communion") for the first of the "Catholic Chronicles." Most Protestants (1) would expect me to deal with what they might consider the more obvious departures from biblical foundation - such as the worship of and prayers to the Virgin Mary, the infallibility of the pope, purgatory and prayers for the dead, or the history of the torture and burning of accused "heretics" and such like that.
But for this first article I believe that we should get right to the root, before we begin exploring the branches of Roman doctrine and practice. And any Catholic who has even a small knowledge of his church knows that the central focus of each gathering (known as the "Mass") is the Holy Eucharist.”

Chronicle 1



Catholic Chronicle #2 - The Sacrifice of the Mass: What does it mean?


In Chronicle I, we thoroughly examined the doctrine of transubstantiation - its history, practice, and real meaning. But we have waited for this second article to answer the question: WHY? Why must there be present in the Mass the literal body and blood of Jesus? What purpose does it serve?
The answer is found in the startling words: "The sacrifice of the Mass is the same sacrifice of the cross, for there is the same priest, the same victim, and the same offering." (1)
And in the words of Pope Pius IV.. "I profess likewise that in the Mass there is offered to God a true, proper, and propitiatory (2) sacrifice for the living and the dead." (From the fifth article of the creed of Pope Pius IV.)
That is the incredible truth! The Roman Catholic Church believes and teaches that in every Mass, in every church, throughout the world (estimated at up to 200,000 Masses a day) that Jesus Christ is being offered up again, physically, as a sacrifice for sin (benefiting not only those alive, but the dead (3) as well!) Every Roman Mass is a re-creation of Jesus' death for the sins of the world. NOT A SYMBOLIC RE-CREATION - but a literal, actual offering of the flesh and blood of the Lord to make daily atonement for all the sins that have been daily committed since Jesus was crucified almost 2,000 years ago. (4)
That's why the bread and wine must become physically Jesus' body and blood, so that they can be once again offered for sin: "The Holy Eucharist is the perpetual continuation of this act of sacrifice and surrender of our Lord. When the Lord's Supper is celebrated, Christ again presents Himself in His act of total surrender to the Father in death." (5)

He offers Himself continually to the Father, in the same eternal act of offering that began on the cross and will NEVER CEASE." (6)
"The Mass is identical to Calvary - it is a sacrifice for sin - it must be perpetuated to take away sin." (7)
The catechism of the Council of Trent required all pastors to explain that not only did the elements of the Mass contain flesh, bones and nerves as a part of Christ, "But also a WHOLE CHRIST." (8) Thus it is referred to as "the sacrifice of the Mass" and as "a RENEWAL of the sacrifice of the cross." (9)


Chronicle 2


Catholic Chronicle #3 - Salvation According to Rome


The first of these unfamiliar words are the names of the two groups Rome has separated all sins into. Now if you're a Catholic, you might be wondering why I'm making such a big deal - for the dividing of sins into two distinct categories (each with their own set of consequences and remedies) has been part of Catholic doctrine for a long, long time.

According to Rome's definition, mortal sin is described as "any great offense against the law of God" and is so named because "it is deadly, killing the soul and subjecting it to eternal punishment." Venial (1) sins, on the other hand, are "small and pardonable offenses against God, and our neighbor." Unlike mortal sins, benial sins are not thought to damn a soul to hell, but with the committing of each venial sin, a person increase his need for a longer stay in the purifying fires of a place called "purgatory." (Look that word up in your Bible dictionary - you'll find it right next to "venial"!)
Now, there is no agreement among the priests as to which sins are mortal and which are venial, but they all proceed on the assumption that such a distinction does exist. The method of classification is purely arbitrary. What is venial according to one may be mortal according to another.
According to Rome, the pope is infallible in matters of faith and doctrine. He should then be able to settle this important matter by accurately cataloging those sins which are mortal as distinguished from those which are venial. However, there are some definites in the "mortal" category: blatantly breaking one of the ten commandments, practically all sexual offenses (whether in word, thought or deed) and a long list of transgressions which have changed throughout the centuries.
For instance, until Vatican II it was a mortal sin to attend a Protestant church, to own or read a Protestant Bible, or to eat meat on Friday! Oh, and it's still a mortal sin to "miss Mass on Sunday morning (2) without a good excuse" (which means that considerably more than half of the claimed Roman Catholic membership throughout the world is constantly in mortal sin!) Venial sins include things like thinking bad thoughts, having wrong motives, losing your temper, etc. - things that do not necessarily "lead into actual sin" but still, nevertheless, are sins that need to be eradicated in some way.

Chronicle 3


Catholic Chronicles #4 - What did Vatican II really change?

The Roman Catholic Church is very proud of two distinct things: 1) that it has never changed, and 2) that it has changed very much! I realize that number 2 seems to contradict number 1, but anyone who has studied church history even briefly, will be able to grasp what I'm trying to say.
First, Rome is very emphatic about making clear these unalterable facts:
A. That she is the original and only church founded by Jesus Christ upon the earth.
B. That her head, the pope, has the authority handed down from the "first pope," Simon Peter, through "apostolic succession," (1) to sit in the place of Jesus as the undisputed leader of all true Christians on earth.
C. That her traditions and interpretations of scripture are the only basis for forming the rules and guidelines that Christians everywhere should live by.
D. And that her dogmas and doctrines, although they can be clarified, enlarged, or re-stated for the sake of changing times, can never, ever be abolished, contradicted, or altered. They are quite literally, "Canon Law."

Chronicle 4
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Hi Joefizz,

Thanks for responding. Your answer confuses me though so I'm hoping you can clear a few things up for me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear most on this forum in essence saying, "I know the truth because I read the Bible and the Holy Spirit allows me to interpret it correctly". And that works today because personal interpretation is an accepted practice, but it never was in the early Christian Church (first 800 years). Many of the beliefs we've been discussing (praying to the dead, the Eucharist, Mary Mother of God and ever virgin, confession of sins to a priest, authority, and others) were all documented beliefs by the early Christian Church. No one denied these beliefs. So they must have interpreted the Bible differently than many on this thread. It's just a historical fact and people on this site seem to turn a blind eye to this. Why is that?

And if you say the early Christian Church was wrong, how can you not say the Church for its first 1500 years fell into blasphemy? And if the Christian Church fell into blasphemy how can you not say that Jesus failed to protect His Church (for it took Him 1500 years to finally get it right)? And if you then have to admit that Jesus failed how can you say that He is God for God can't fail? If you're being intellectually honest how does your entire belief system not come crumbling down due to the gap between your version of the truth and that professed by the early Christian Church?

Jesus' truth can't change. Truth today (present) was truth yesterday (past) and will be the truth tomorrow (future). But, your belief system doesn't take the past into account at all. It's as if Christians over time and what they believed to be the truth means nothing to you. It's all about your defined version of the truth today and what was the truth yesterday is meaningless. How isn't that the case? And why is that?

And if you could answer all of my questions I'd really appreciate it. It seems like people on this site get really emotional rather than answering specific questions so I'm hoping you will be able to.

Thanks.

-Ernie-
Well considering that those early beliefs led to gallows deaths and burnings at stake I prefer the Christian faith that doesn't lead to such stupidity respectfully.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Well considering that those early beliefs led to gallows deaths and burnings at stake I prefer the Christian faith that doesn't lead to such stupidity respectfully.
It is actually adherence to the Christian faith by some that led to their burnings at the stake and other cruel methods of death at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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It is actually adherence to the Christian faith by some that led to their burnings at the stake and other cruel methods of death at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church.
Very true. The Roman Catholic church deliberately and brutally murdered many Christians.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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In the past, I involve a discussion with catholic, look love they promote unity, invite protestant to unite to catholic, in my country, catholic priest organized a joint worship between Isa AL masih/ ( in america Isa AL asih is assembly of God)

it was in the suara merdeka ( Indonesian news paper base oN central Java)

I heard some say that It is part of one world government element. Catholic start build one world religion. If so, than No body can stop her, It is in the bible, there Will be one world government orchestrs by Lucifer, and catholic work for lucifer.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Very true. The Roman Catholic church deliberately and brutally murdered many Christians.
Just like Ishmael's descendents are doing today.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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In the past, I involve a discussion with catholic, look love they promote unity, invite protestant to unite to catholic, in my country, catholic priest organized a joint worship between Isa AL masih/ ( in america Isa AL asih is assembly of God)

it was in the suara merdeka ( Indonesian news paper base oN central Java)

I heard some say that It is part of one world government element. Catholic start build one world religion. If so, than No body can stop her, It is in the bible, there Will be one world government orchestrs by Lucifer, and catholic work for lucifer.
Jackson,

In my country they are bonding with Islam too. Very dangerous. The Church is being lured into globalism. It's a very subtle deception with "humanitarian" goals and promises of peace. (a false peace)
 
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joefizz

Guest
It is actually adherence to the Christian faith by some that led to their burnings at the stake and other cruel methods of death at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church.
Precisely my point Catholic Christianity is one of traditions and pointing fingers when one wants so called "justice" present day Christianity is a faith of "love","understanding" and "compassion" not a bunch of pointing fingers and half truths,but each to their own.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Rev 5:8

8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.

Catholic interpretation this verse is saint able to hear billions people pray to them.

to me This verse doesn't say so. This elderly just deliver the prayer, It not even say the elderly know they petitions

I was work AS a driver to deliver a Mail or packages to the customers, and I do not know what is in the package. My duty is only to deliver and my boss pay me for my labor.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Jackson,

In my country they are bonding with Islam too. Very dangerous. The Church is being lured into globalism. It's a very subtle deception with "humanitarian" goals and promises of peace. (a false peace)
I think the time is short brother, so not only in my country, soon spread all over and one world government Will take over, the government of antichrist, sure catholic work for Lucifer.
 
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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Based on the INSPIRED book of Matthew, according to all you "Catholic BASHERS" (and you EACH KNOW who you are!), Jesus Christ was a LIAR and a DECEIVER when He said THIS:


Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.


Hint: When you go to the page above, search that page for the word "not" but without any quote marks in your search!

You have to see the bible from the whole picture.

Not interprate from one verse.

a church AS a building, build upon a Concrete. AS a doctrine, build upon the teaching of Jesus, No apostle allow to create his own teaching.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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